As I've posted here before, we are thinking about moving to a new house and renting our current one. Financially we're fine; I work full-time and make a good salary, and my credit rating is very good.
The problem is mainly this: moving out of our current home, in order to get it ready for renters, would take an enormous amount of work. DH has used the bottom half of the house for 10 years for his own personal storage of all his collections and has not cleaned it in that time. We had multiple water leaks (that he promised to fix) that finally I took care of this last year, which ruined the carpet and probably damaged the sheetrock, the floors downstairs are completely trashed by cats/spills/water leaks, there is a ton of other work that needs to be done other than this. It would take a dedicated person who worked on all the stuff that needs to be fixed approximately 10 hours a day for at least a month; if I hired a crew it would probably be done in a week or so, but that's super expensive.
Anyway, yesterday we were talking about whether it's smart to move right now or not. I love our little house, but it is LITTLE, :). I'm fine with not moving and just improving on what we've got here.
He wants to move, and is adamant that HE could do all the work that needs to be done in a couple weeks. Judging from his track record, I have a big problem with that:
- he has two storages that I've been paying for for ten years that he told me would be cleaned out in a month
- My "office" downstairs was supposed to be cleaned out two years ago, still full of garbage
- The other room downstairs was supposed to be cleaned out two years ago, still full of his collections.
- Instead of working on stuff he promises up and down is going to be done, he goes and volunteers at local comic book shops for trade and comes home with literally carfulls of stuff
So I was understandably a bit skeptical when he said he could get the house renter-ready in 30 days. It wouldn't impact him at all, but I could end up having to pay two mortgages for months. Judging from his track record, this is most likely what would happen.
If I would say any of this to him, he would argue with me for hours to the tune of "I took four boxes to Goodwill last week!" and such. He doesn't understand or refuses to understand that this is the same thing he's been telling me for years, and yet nothing has changed.
I hate arguing with him, but how do I get him to see that he's not reliable? That what he's telling me - getting the house ready in 30 days - is completely unrealistic?
I ended yesterday's discussion civilly (didn't bring up the above at all) with something to the effect of "let's see what happens", which is basically a catch-all phrase that could mean anything.
I think the bottom line is this: if I want to move, I'll need to arrange everything myself (big surprise), including getting our current house ready for renters. I'm fine with not moving. But how do you communicate to your ADHD DH that he can't be relied upon without causing conflict? My solution is just to deflect and distract, and it seems to work.
Sorry for the rambling post - lots of stuff going on here, LOL.
Hi, redhead. I'm sorry that
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Hi, redhead. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this particular type of behavior. It happens in my household, also. My husband distorts situations and denies his limitations and sometimes it seems the safest way to respond is, as you have found, to do the thing myself and change the subject. That puts a huge burden on me, partly because of the labor involved with the particular task but also because of the time and energy I must expend figuring out which topics are "safe" to talk about. (Basically, I'm taking a risk by bringing up any topic that could be labeled a "problem.")
I've found it MUCH easier to
Submitted by redhead1017 on
I've found it MUCH easier to just do it myself. Not even talk to him about it, which is new for me, since I usually share with him. But it's absolutely maddening to talk to him and hear him say he's going to do it and then years later, nothing.
For example - three weeks ago I noticed some really nasty mildew behind the cabinets. I mentioned it needed to be cleaned up - he has said a million times that he is responsible for everything around the house and I shouldn't have to do it. Okay, then.
As usual nothing happened. So this Saturday when he went out to hang out with friends, I got out the bucket and mold remover and got it done. Took me 15 minutes, no big deal.
He will never notice this.
I'm also talking about redoing the bathroom. Immediately when I bring this up "oh I'll do all that! You don't have to do that."
Not going to happen. I'll just do it when he's out hanging out at the comic book shop.
It's just so much easier for me to do it myself and not tell him or consult him.
I agree 100%!!
Submitted by Mapper (not verified) on
It is SO much easier to just do it yourself. My H would get so upset when I would mow the yard because he feels that's his job. Well 2 weeks ago today he said that he'd have to mow the yard that weekend. Well the weekend came and went and nothing happened. Then he told me last Wednesday that the yard definitely needed to be mowed on Friday. Well Friday night about 5PM I say "Can I PLEASE mow the yard?" He goes "Well if you really want to. I was going to wait and do it tomorrow." You wanna bet?
As far as other things like washing the car, weedwhacking, and other things I can do but he pitches a fit when I do them I just wait until he leaves the house for an extended period of time and do them myself. Because if I remind him more than once I get "I know, I know, get off my back already and stop nagging!"
Yes! This, exactly!
Submitted by redhead1017 on
Yes! This, exactly!
So does he say anything when he sees this stuff done? My DH doesn't even notice, usually. And if he does, he gets MAD! Why? Because "I was going to do that for you, you didn't have to do it!" Well, I get tired of asking and it's just easier to do it myself. After all I don't want to interrupt your hours of playing with your collectibles or ranting online, now, do I? >sarcasm<
Like when I mow the yard when
Submitted by Mapper (not verified) on
Like when I mow the yard when he is gone and he comes home, he will notice it and go "good job, looks nice." It's like he's happy I took the initiative.Yet when I go out and start mowing without telling him when he is home, he gets very upset because he WAS going to do it tomorrow so I get his frustration at me for the hour or so after it is done. Even if I tell him I'm going to do it when he is home he goes "No I said I was going to do it! I'm just waiting for it to cool off. Just chill out and relax". Of course nightfall comes and nothing is done. I also do things when he is gone because I can do them without having to hear form him how I should be doing it this way not that way because my way is "wrong".
I am the type of person who wants to get stuff done early and then relax the rest of the day. He is the opposite and doesn't want to START anything until 2PM! I literally stayed home from work one Friday so that I could mow the yard before he got home. Otherwise he is home 3 hours before me and I can't do it without asking permission!
At least when I end up doing
Submitted by lauren07 on
At least when I end up doing something he meant to do, he'll stop whatever he's doing and take over. If he tells me to stop because he'll do it later, I won't stop because I know later most likely won't get here.
If you don't mind staying,
Submitted by lauren07 on
If you don't mind staying, then I don't see a problem here. Don't move until he gets it renter ready. When he talks about moving, tell him you all will look for a place to move as soon as your current house is ready. Telling him he can't or won't will definitely cause conflict, but the proof will be in the pudding.
You'll probably live in that little house forever;p
LOL and I don't mind that! I
Submitted by redhead1017 on
LOL and I don't mind that! I love this house. I went around this weekend and wrote down all the DIY projects I'm planning for the next year. It was actually kind of fun!
His solution is that all of the stuff that needs to be done will magically sort itself out once we're out of the house. Sure, it will be easier to work with nothing here, but judging from his track record it would be financially irresponsible to buy a second house when I would have to budget for paying two mortgages for at least six months, probably more. He just doesn't understand why I am not supportive of his idea, he sees no connection between the last ten years of him telling me stuff that never gets done and the current issue. None. Which boggles my mind.
I think I will go with your idea of telling him we can't move until this house is renter-ready. He won't take it well; he's got a really strange obsession with getting us out and THEN working on everything. I think in his mind the main reason why he can't get anything done is us. At least that's what he justifies it as. For example, if you ask him about his day, he'll talk about how much "work" he's doing. In reality, his schedule is rant on message boards for several hours, put in a load of laundry, go back to computer, dink around with his comic book collection, and then spend about 5-7 hours a night on his card collection (literally). That's a busy day for him. Toss in taking kids to school or any errands whatsoever and he absolutely comes undone. In his mind, we are the reason he can't look for a job, can't clean the storages and downstairs, because he takes so much time taking care of us.
The whole thing is just screwy and makes me tired.
Meanwhile, I'm having fun on Pinterest putting together DIY ideas for my house......going to be making several trips to Home Depot. I'll have to do this all behind his back as the last time I re-caulked the bathroom, he didn't like the way I did it and pulled the entire thing up and redid it (incorrectly and sloppily). He won't do it himself, but won't let anyone else do it either. It's screwy to the max.
I see some glaring
Submitted by lauren07 on
I see some glaring similarities, but it does seem your situations are more "screwy" than mine. It is all some crazy making stuff for sure. At least sometimes we can all laugh about it.
My husband has major delusions of grandeur too. He imagines he is the only person who works a full time job with overtime. But I do too LOL and STILL I get anything and everything else I want done. My husband wants to be admired for any work he does or plans to do. He mentions it daily. It drives me batty! I don't know other people like this. Why oh why did I have to end up tied down to this craziness?
Love Language!
Submitted by c ur self on
Lauren07- It sounds like his love language is Affirmation...And you are starving him...If you believe in that sort of stuff...
Well then I hope he finds
Submitted by lauren07 on
Well then I hope he finds someone to constantly affirm him because I will NEVER affirm someone as much as he seems to need. Oh, you washed one dish out of 20 in the sink? Get out of here! I am not making this up. One dish!!! And he tells me about it like he really DID something.
Update: I brought up casually
Submitted by redhead1017 on
Update: I brought up casually this morning that "hey don't you think it might make more sense to get the house ready to rent before we move? That way we can have the property management team ready to go as soon as we are gone. What do you think?"
Oh boy, you would think that I had just suggested he grow a tail! First he spluttered that there is "no way" he can work around all of the stuff he has downstairs (oh, you mean the boxes of garbage that have been sitting there for years? I can see why that might be a problem), and that it would be "easier" for me to just "get some extra money" put on top of the new mortgage to take care of the repairs. He's been telling me for YEARS that all this would be taken care of and fixed, with zero progress, and now he's trying to sell me two different scenarios: first, he can do all of it himself magically within 30 days along with moving an entire household, OR, he's unable to do it and I just need to hire crews from my apparently boundless source of cash.
Again, completely out of touch with what is going on. I am officially giving up on moving and just working on the damn house myself. He had the audacity to suggest the other day that it would be easier for me to afford all of the repairs and do all of them at once (rather than saving) if I would just "pick up another gig". Oh, you mean in addition to the three that I have now? Seriously? Up until July I was actually working FOUR jobs, two full time contracts and two part time ones, and he was upset when the one ended and immediately was all "I'll help you look for another one!" How about YOU find a job and actually contribute to the household!
His lack of awareness of this entire situation is absolutely astonishing to me. Really, it's literally breathtaking. I don't even know how to respond to him at this point.
Awareness and elephants
Submitted by sunlight on
"His lack of awareness of this entire situation is absolutely astonishing"
I suggest that he is completely aware.
Completely aware and utterly overwhelmed
Submitted by Standing on
I think so, too.
Explains alot of what I experienced here when the stress built to maximum levels last month.
In Light of my Earlier Comment..
Submitted by kellyj on
which was based somewhat from my own experience with my wife's habit of sometimes "throwing rocks from a glass house" which only weakens her position at the time.....I wanted to follow up in agreement with you here in your case from what you said in this thread. He's not getting it.
What I've found that works on both sides of the coin is.... you need to pin him down and not let him get up until he can answer "WHY" he wants what he wants and then answer how "HE" is going to do it not you......a clear path from A to B spelled out in clear and understandable language....then prove it. You don't have to agree with him. If he can't give clear, logical explanations to his behavior and answer the "WHY, HOW, and When" in a way that makes any sense to you....he's probably getting pulled by the ring in his nose by some emotional or otherwise motivation....which is why he can't make sense or communicate in any logical way. I am suspect when I experience this with people and this is the best way I've found to see if I am right. If it proves to be correct then I don't trust the motivation or the premise in the first place...until I get an answer I can understand. And yes....when people are doing this they don't like it when you try and pin them down because it's exposing something that they can't explain and don't want exposed (like irrational behavior or addictions) but it does make them think, if not in the moment then later. If he comes back to you a few days after he's gotten over it with a real answer....at least he gets the point enough to do so even if he needs to save face and not deal with his irrational motivation whether he can see it or not.....and you just set a boundary (precedent maybe) by making him be accountable.
Just my two bits in light of my earlier comment which FYI....no one is without some responsibility on their part even if it's putting up and allowing this stuff to go on in the first place. It's always more difficult to undo what's already been done than stopping it from happening from the beginning which sounds like exactly what you are doing right now. Good luck.
J
Answer These Questions First
Submitted by kellyj on
Who decided or determined what ( list things you are unhappy about here) was to be done, how it was to done and when in the first place....you or your spouse?
Did he/she agree to do it only to stop the nagging or originally as a gesture showing they were interested in making you happy (possibly their first mistake thinking they could make another person happy) but had no strong opinion or feeling either way in something that he/she actually said they weren't interested in/thought it was important/even cared about?
If no....wouldn't you point it out and bring attention to it when you finished (pick one)...not for the pat on the back or validation but as a release from obligation?
How might you feel if you consistently went to do something and found the other person already did it, did it over or did it differently and then later complained that you never do it or do it correctly especially when it something that you don't like doing or don't do well in the first place?
Are anything on your list of complaints something that you could do yourself? (like mowing the lawn for example)?
What's most important....that it get done when you want it done...how you want it done....how often you want it done...how long it takes to get done....or that it simply gets done?
Who originally determined the answers to the previous question in the first place...you or him/her? Be honest and think back to when all of this first began. Who was it who raised the first red flag to the other about anything of these things and were these things ever mentioned, discussed or talked about before as: wishes, wants , desires, personal needs or challenges with the other person in the first place? Was there ever a chance for the other person to voice their opinion or have a say in any of these things that require some kind of action on their part to begin with?
Who decides what's right or what's wrong for yourself or for another person?
think about it
J
How might you feel if you
Submitted by dvance on
How might you feel if you consistently went to do something and found the other person already did it, did it over or did it differently and then later complained that you never do it or do it correctly especially when it something that you don't like doing or don't do well in the first place?
Okay this---I'd be embarrassed that I wasn't holding up my end of the life partner deal. ADHD people so rarely pull their own weight it's hard not to just operate around them. If we waited for them to ACT, the world would come to a screeching halt. I don't LIKE to do laundry but I do it because my family and I need clean clothes. I HATE to unload the dishwasher, but it needs to get done. My youngest son is TERRIBLE at folding laundry and he hates doing it but guess what--I still require him to at least fold his own because it's life skill he needs and I am not a maid (he is 13). Maybe he'll get better, maybe he won't. Maybe when he is an adult he will never fold laundry again, but in our family, this is something I ask of both my kids. It gets really old to hear from ADHD people that it's so hard for them to be mindful of what needs to be done and actually do it AND then not get acknowledged enough when they do some part of the job. DH will load MOST of the dishwasher and then walk away. Why?? Why would you leave three plates and two glasses in the sink but load everything else? I have no idea. Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you told your wife you would take the full to overflowing garbage out and then not do it, instead looking at her when she goes to do it in shock--I was going to do that-why didn't you remind me??? Because then I get accused of nagging, that's why.
AMEN!!!
Submitted by lauren07 on
AMEN!!!
Amen, too!
Submitted by MFrances on
Love this: "It gets really old to hear from ADHD people that it's so hard for them to be mindful of what needs to be done and actually do it AND then not get acknowledged enough when they do some part of the job." So true. I'll do something that needs done, my husband will say, I was going to do that. Well, you didn't, did you? Saying you were going to do something while I am in the middle of doing it, doesn't help me at all.
And the constant need for
Submitted by lauren07 on
And the constant need for acknowledgment! I had to tell my ex last night, "Look, I do appreciate that you are working, but everybody that has bills has to work." He says he wants me to know he's not a bum. I say, "it's very obvious you are not a bum, but I will still consider you lazy if you think ALL you have to do is work. I could do your job and still take care of our son AND a house. Working and being a productive father and household member is what I expect."
Sorry if that's too much. There IS a reason we're separated. I'm not just a hag who can't see how great he is. Uggh, and the man has taken to hitting on me. I tell him I hate it and it's inappropriate, but you all know he can't help himself:/ And honestly, if you know I find wild facial hair absolutely disgusting, don't hit on me with that crap on your face. I told him he looked homeless, that he should at least clean it up. He doesn't care. He is honestly going for the depressed, ptsd veteran look. He proudly wears his vet hat. Yes, he did deploy, but no, he did not see any major combat on his fob. He worked inside all day, on a computer. Sorry...I'm just so annoyed by his cries for attention. I'm so glad he's back with his Mom. He really does need her.
Wonder what it is about the
Submitted by copingSAH on
Wonder what it is about the facial hair... my dh would grow his beard long and unkempt, he looked a lot older than he was. He works in an environment where everyone has to maintain a semblance of appearance. He thought it made him look distinguished... Even after many attempts and remarks on how he looked like someone from the woods. Someone must have finally hit a sore spot, he now keeps it more closely shaved.
I was going to do that
Submitted by Standing on
Okay, this is beautiful! I
Submitted by dvance on
Okay, this is beautiful! I am laughing about the why didn't you make the task fun... That is too funny. I'm with you about not caring if he helps any more. It just isn't going to happen, so I gave up. In my house, a real partnership is not possible, so I gave up trying about 6 months ago. The marriage is going down the drain, but I feel 100 percent better. Isn't that weird??!?!! But I am done being the parent of a person who is supposed to be my equal partner in life. Done. The kids and I carry on. DH rarely notices what we do. He doesn't generally ask how our days were, is rarely home before the kids go to bed--it can be three, four days that he doesn't see them. I did so much with them this summer that he doesn't even know. Am I being secretive on purpose? No. He doesn't ask and if I do volunteer what we did, he is likely to drift off while I am talking--literally or figuratively, so why bother? Keep in mind-my DH stopped talking his meds in February after he got fired (for the second time in three years) because he figured if he wasn't working he didn't need them. Nothing I say makes him think he still needs them for life, so fine--this is how it is then. He lives in his happy oblivious ADHD fog and I do everything else.
I know I sound mad and bitter--I'm not mad. I feel like I've been jipped-like I was sold a bill of goods. I thought marriage would be one way and it's exactly the opposite. And we have been married for 19 years, so it's no longer the newlywed rose-colored glasses. I'm lonely and disappointed that every single item of any consequence is on me. I'm afraid if I make a wrong decision and things come crashing down, it's only my fault. There is no one to bounce ideas off of, no one to help me with financial decisions or setting long term goals or making decisions for the kids. It's all me. This summer my 15 YO son was having some health issues--could have been kidney stones. DH doesn't even know it went on. I took DS to four specialists at the Children's Hospital in our city, umpteen urine tests, ultrasounds, everything. DH has no idea. I don't talk to him all day and when he gets home from working 11 hours of side jobs, he showers and goes to bed. When would we have those conversations? The appointments were all written on the family calendar in the kitchen. I see him standing there looking at the calendar, but he doesn't ask me about the stuff on it. If you saw "hospital--9am" with your kid's initials after it, wouldn't you ask what that was? Nope, DH tells me he can't decipher what's on the calendar. So I made a google calendar--called it FAMILY CALENDAR-- and shared it to DH and my oldest son who now has a job, so they both know what's up. Guess what? DH has never used it because he can't remember his google password and hasn't bothered to get another one. I give up.
I agree. Beautiful!
Submitted by lauren07 on
So very sad too. I see my failed marriage in these postings. I still scratch my head daily. Multiple times daily.
it is very sad
Submitted by Standing on
I feel you standing...
Submitted by c ur self on
This is definitely a reality that is tragic...Either you spend a whole bunch of time alone, doing what suits you. Are you develop an attitude OK, I will have to give up my life in many way's and tag along, just to keep peace and have some semblance of togetherness...I'm not judging anyone with this statement, because every one is different...But, in my marriage...I know what you are feeling and saying here...Wish i didn't, but afraid I do oh so well...
Thank you for empathising, c ur self
Submitted by Standing on
That helps.
I don't want to get stuck in depression, but also don't want to cover up with denial. It is what it is, and if I don't let myself feel it and grieve it, then I could become crusty or emotionally unavailable for good.
I don't mind a bunch of time on my own. And if I didn't work with him all the time, maybe I could handle some tagging along. But right now, I am just plain tired and really don't want to go along for his evaluation and pretend like it's going to make any difference when I know that -for me- it is what it is. There is no getting over this, simply must go through. Thanks for listening.
My husband "gets me stuff at
Submitted by SherriW13 on
My husband "gets me stuff at the store" too...and although I appreciate it, I think he feels it fills a void and I don't want him feeling that way because it doesn't.
Recently he asked me to come get him from work at lunch so we could go eat. I pick him up. HIM: where do you want to eat? ME: I don't care, you choose. HIM: no honey you choose. we will eat where ever you want. ME: Valentino's? HIM: No, I do not want to eat there. ME: ok, then you pick because I'm not.
I don't even bother getting mad about this anymore. If he picks somewhere I don't want to go, I tell him and he picks until we agree on a place. He refuses to go to the movies with me...something I LOVE to do..unless something he really wants to see is playing.
He has zero problem making plans with his friends, but never asks me to do things..if we do anything it is because I planned it or asked..and half the time he rejects my offer.
Filling that void
Submitted by Standing on
Exactly, Sherri. I try not to think negatively about the little treats he picks up, but the void just grows larger and deeper, and once I allow in some of my own feelings, instead of trying to ignore them, something ugly blooms inside me. I don't want him to think that it compensates, either.
Those questions about what your choice might be seem like nothing but going through motions. It all seems to come back to his preferences, no matter what. It's like he can't think of something for himself, so hopes that you will suggest something that will appeal to him. I keep coming back to this notion of add as a vacuum, seeking inspiration.
My husband does not make plans with friends. He hangs out at work, and eats, and sleeps. That's about it.
Today I gave him the other half of my sandwich. Same kind of sandwich I've shared with him on several recent occasions. The other times, he seemed more appreciative. Today, it definitely was not what he wanted, so I got the pleasure of his questions and comments about the ingredients. I did not force him to eat the thing, but you'd think it was torture for him. He just left to go get some fast food.
That's one of the things that most distresses me... his constant craving for whatever appeals to him at the moment. His lack of contentment with simply being together, or enjoying a moment, or sharing, in general. All of that is missing. I don't think I can spend the rest of my life developing a force field around myself to fend off that vacuum-sucking boredom that oozes from him.
Wow. Let me just say, I hate
Submitted by SherriW13 on
Wow. Let me just say, I hate that you know this feeling...but you're not alone. Living with my husband has, many times, left me feeling like I am standing in the way of this better life that is out there somewhere for him. One where he can spend what he wants, drink as much as he wants, lay out all night as often as he likes, have sex with whatever whim comes onto his radar at any given time, etc. I have always felt like he was never content with anything he has in life and is always seeking more and more. He doesn't 'reel it in' usually until the damage is done. He has done some very thoughtless things and I ask myself 'am I holding him back? Is this what he wants out of life instead of a marriage and a family and stability?' I know that ADHDers get bored easily, but would it kill him to include me in some of his plans? It is about 50/50 as to whether or not he'll go somewhere with me if I make plans...or try to. One tries not to let it bother them, but realistically it cuts me to my soul. I am boring to him, I do believe.
He makes plans to go camping with his best friend. He takes our daughter and her best friend and his friend brings his son. My husband had done some computer work for a local hair salon the week before the camping trip as a barter to get our daughters hair colored purple. At some point in his interactions with them (a married, lesbian couple) he invites them to come up to the campsite for drinks. Mind you, this is AFTER his reading my emails and putting me through absolute HELL for months over an innocent crush that never went ANYWHERE but he invites two females to sit around and drink with them at a camp fire? He knew it was wrong..enough so that he told our daughter not to tell me...she told me of course...but he acted as if the fact that they were lesbians meant it was harmless and no big deal. He acted as if they invited themselves, but one of them said "you promised me a drink if I came" so I know that wasn't true either. It was like I told him, it isn't THEIR intentions that worry me. It's his. I was so hurt and shocked and sad. It was thoughtless and hurtful and disrespectful to our marriage...but yet he did it with seemingly very little thought or effort to stop himself. How does one NOT feel 'in the way'?
I've told him 1000 times that I'd walk away if he wanted to be free and single. I've asked his best friend if he felt like I just needed to walk away and let him be who he is without being accountable to me, as my husband. He insisted "NO". But the void seems to remain, nothing is ever enough, and he seems to be miserable in his own skin. I might not be the reason, I may be the only thing that keeps him together (as he will sometimes say) but I won't spend the rest of my life accepting his hurtful and thoughtless choices.
Standing, I found your post
Submitted by copingSAH on
I found your post astonishingly resonant with me. Just wanted to say you are not alone in this. I seem to go through days and days very conscious of the imbalances when it comes to going out and doing things together. It is not only depressing but in some ways paralyzing.
It is as if ADD thrives on compartmentalization and there are some places where I'm not given the opportunity to just savor. Lucky to go out a handful of times a year but it's always to the same eatery until he gets tired of it, or he's not getting the same attention he's used to from wait staff. We don't go to any concerts, plays, theater or even the county fair like the average couple. He promised so much when we were courting... yet he has absolutely no problems planning his own bar trip or with any friend. He will even go out of his way to meet up with others out of town. My spouse and I have never gone out of town together in the last 15 years.
Spouses like us are still waters run deep; our spouses are rough waters for rough sailing...
to Sherri and Coping SAH
Submitted by Standing on
Thank you for hearing me. I am so sorry that we each are experiencing this, but I'm afraid that not facing it head on and staring it square in the eye will shut down all feelings once, for all. Sherri, what you wrote about the camping.... good grief. Made me furious for you! So much gall that takes... And then to tell your daughter not to mention it! But you know, i would bet he did not even remember that impulsive invite he'd extended. Just another thoughtless bit of inappropriate sharing. My husband does that, too.. seems to make him feel like a big shot. He has a select few female customers with whom he does this odd buddy routine. Once, when i was fed up with his out of control impulse spending, I left the office and told him he was on his own. Within a day, one of these buddies was sitting at my desk. I am sure these women are being told that i am some witch-freak who flips out on him for no reason. But ohhh.... They are soooo worried aboit poor lil ole baby him. Blech.I really don't think he has any bad intent when he does these things, but it is sickening still. I am so tired of making excuses for him - to myself!
CopingSAH, my usua,l overall condition is that I feel that paralysis and it is heart-binding, freezing, emotionally debilitating. I am with my husband most days, yet nonetheless alone. One of the most unsettling aspects of all this is my feeling that i am filling two roles simultaneously - that of his arch adversary and his best friend. This juxtaposition is killing my heart. I have worked really hard to grow up through this (finally) and to keep my thoughts objective, but when we sat together, him speechless, through the ride to his assessment, and he denied that he was anything but tired, couldn't or wouldn't respond to anything I said, and behaved like a sulky teenager... I realized... This really will be the rest of my days with him.
When backed into a corner, he will comply and put up a passive front, but inside he is rebelling all the way. Then sometimes he feels bad after the rebelling and tries to make nice, until that works out for his benefit (or used to) and then the whole stupid cycle begins again. The same eatery until he gets tired of it or finds the atmosphere doesn't revolve around him as it should. Yes, it is never about the sharing, only that weird combo of sameness and attention sucking. sheesh, i am disgusted. I did not sleep last night, dreading today, and although it could have been worse... It still stunk. It's like he can read my vibe. I was sitting there in the car riding home, thinking I Cannot Do This, and he asked where I wanted to stop for lunch. Woo. Hoo.
edited to clean up goofy errors and to apologize to Redhead! Redhead, I am sorry for taking up so much space on your thread!!
It Feels Like This For Me Too Dvance
Submitted by kellyj on
"a real partnership is not possible, so I gave up trying about 6 months ago. The marriage is going down the drain, but I feel 100 percent better. Isn't that weird??!?!! But I am done being the parent of a person who is supposed to be my equal partner in life."
It's not weird...it's survival. And it works both ways. Letting go of what you've decided a partnership or equal partner in life is might be the healthiest thing for you to do and objectively stand back and look at what you actually have from a distance. That doesn't mean you have to accept it! But you can if you choose to.....or not. It is your choice. Letting go does feel good and feels like a sense of relief in part...by deciding if this is acceptable or not. If it isn't then do something about it. I'm not talking about doing everything yourself begrudgingly and thinking that's letting go. That only serves to maintain the Status Quo.
I realize that I am responding to a thread of non-spouses garnering support and venting anger. Your comment," I feel like I've been jipped-like I was sold a bill of goods. I thought marriage would be one way and it's exactly the opposite." has a lot to do with it as much as I believe it is both true and valid for many non-spouses here. Who wouldn't feel angry in a situation like this?
My questions in my earlier post was to make a point......that the things you are feeling and thinking are probably true to some degree on your husbands side too for different reasons but.....to what end?
So exhausted wrote (very eloquently I might add) The answer to your question: Communicating without conflict - is it possible? is simply , no. Two or more people equals two or more ideas, and here you have conflict." You threw "ADHD" into your response. I agree completely with so exhausted but this applies to everyone across the board.
Your generalizations about ADHD are part of a real problem for people who have it because so often than not...they don't apply or at least....not to them . There is no way for anyone outside of that to even know in the first place what they are seeing and why.
Kant ( the philosopher) wrote that laziness is specifically a person behaving in a way that is inconsistent or counter to reaching their potential. ADHD does not make a person lazy.....lack of motivation or giving up would be more likely the cause.
The question then becomes......why does a person lack motivation or feels like giving up?
I think the battle you are having is whether to stay or leave your situation...or deciding if this is acceptable or not. I wouldn't count on your husband to change but it is possible if he has the motivation but you're living a life you don't want and need to choose for yourself and then choose what do do about it. You can leave...no one has taken that choice from you (not saying that would be easy by any means) but it might be better? Only you can decide this for yourself but you do need to make choices and part of those choices requires letting go.
Food for thought.
J
I notice my spouse will put
Submitted by copingSAH on
I notice my spouse will put an empty carton (tea bags) back in the cabinet. Tells me that reminds him to buy more next time. I don't know how this works.
For me, if I see a carton in the cabinet, I assume there is still something in it!0
Dunno how many times I go to fix myself a cup of tea and retrieve an empty carton instead!
If his mother were still alive, I'd want to hear from her just how life was like with her son before we met -- and how she managed to communicate with her son into his adult years.
Identifying
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Hi redhead1017,
The answer to your question: Communicating without conflict - is it possible? is simply , no. Two or more people equals two or more ideas, and here you have conflict. As sure as the sun rises and sets everyday, so will two people have different ideas. It is a normal part of every relationship Move on over to the resolution or facilitating a peaceful end - and there is where the problem is residing.
I second the above poster-it
Submitted by dvance on
I second the above poster-it is not possible to communicate with and ADHD person without conflict. My DH is so much like this. He does virtually nothing I ever ask him to do. If I start to empty the dishwasher, for example, he hears me from the other room and he'll say "oh leave it, I'll do it." The first few times he said it I would stop doing it but DH never actually finished the job, so now when he says that I don't ever answer or say anything, I just keep doing it. This happens with pretty much everything. I'll get up to clear the table and he say "Oh I'll get it" but he won't actually stand up and do it. If it's the younger son's bedtime and I get up to get him going, he will say "oh I got him" but not actually get up to do it. I find that so odd. Even if I was roommates with someone, I would be embarrassed if I kept telling someone I would do something and then never took steps towards doing it. It's so much easier to just do what needs to be done. 90% of the time, they never notice that the thing needed to be done, let alone that it was taken care of, so who cares? I figure if my standards are higher than his (not that he even has standards) then I am prepared to just do what needs to be done to make my living space and my family the way I want it. DH neither notices or cares.
Don't ask, just do whatever you want. They don't notice.
It's All About Insecurity
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to post this comment to all the spouses on this forum (and in this thread) and share what I know about myself and living with ADHD. I didn't have a clue to what ADHD even was until I was 50...so you can imagine from that I also was living in denial of it (understandably if you don't even know what it is? ). This does give a person and interesting perspective on themselves because of this however....
You go through life experiencing things that tell you something is off...not quite right....but you don't have answer for it. Other people point it out but it doesn't make it stop or go away? Why am I like this?? None of these things by themselves pose any real problems but collectively they do....
So you learn along the way to compensate, learn to do things differently (sometime even better) to make up for the difference. Women in the working world know this all too well....they have to do things better than their male counterparts to get noticed, the same money or promoted. It not fair but it does exist. It's exactly the same for someone with ADHD but far less obvious and well defined ......or at least it was for me. You get pissed off and highly motivated to prove to everyone that you can do things better than they can. I spent more than half my life proving this point until the day came when I realized that what I had actually done was to prove it to myself. When this day came to me I realized how much of my my day to day existence was fueled by proving that there was nothing wrong with me and hiding what was.
It's all about Insecurity !!!
That's it in a nut shell....insecurity is evil. It is the cause for everything bad that people do. It makes you selfish and self serving. ADHD does not make you this way. The tendencies or propensity to behave or act in somewhat predicable ways is rooted in ADHD......how any one individual is effected by it and most importantly other peoples input into it shapes how you see yourself and how you perceive how other people see you is where the insecurity comes from.
Human beings are the most fragile and needy species on the planet as infants. We cannot survive without someone else to provide us with certain basic needs or we will die. I believe that this primitive wiring and the need to be with other people fundamentally sets us up to be insecure if we perceive that our needs are not going to be met ....ADHD is a threat to this (or can be if perceived this way dependent on each individuals own personal experience) which opens the door wide open for insecurity from an early age. The messages you get from others does this over a very long period of time...so long and so long ago it is very easy to forget the road that took you where you are today.
So to sum this up and to make my long winded point.......all the speculations that I read from the non spouses as to WHY their husbands act, behave, do what ever they do is not from ADHD itself. ADHD does not cause the behaviors, you do have some control of this I can attest to this.
Since I learned about ADHD and educated myself about....I realized that many of the behaviors that I read about for so many people who have it remembering back far enough....I did have/do at some time but.... for whatever reason I found a way to get around them successfully enough along the way that they didn't come to the surface and create a problem for me. I have plenty of others that did however but for the short list of ones that didn't I was able to manage by myself without even knowing I had ADHD.
This does prove fundamentally that you can do something about it if you want it bad enough within reason and any one persons capabilities ( or limitations ) Insecurity initially is what motivated me and drove me to find ways to compensate....but for all the rest that didn't the insecurity didn't go away either.
Coming from where I see it......ADHD itself is not where all you non-spouses should be aiming at in finding answers. I read the same complaints repeatedly about the same ADHD attributed tendencies and behaviors in their husbands and yes, we do kind'a walk around with a bulls eye painted on our backs .......but so what? These arn't the real issues that I see repeatedly here in this forum. The real issues are the same ones that everyone experiences and cause 99% of all the problems in marriages and personal relationships with another person. Speaking for myself when I read different scenarios about the spouse who have ADHD and their behaviors.....9 times out of 10 I immediately can see the ADHD related insecurity in them ( not the ADHD itself as is being speculated )
I believe these all stem from insecurity in one way or another on some level and the fundamental fear of being alone without others to help get our needs met. This is the real culprit not ADHD in itself.
This applies to everyone!
Just my two bits for what it's worth....
J
Awesome piece of writing !
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
JJamieson,
I read your post with keen interest. It makes logical sense. I do not think ADHD is a beast. I think undiagnosed ADHD was the dragon that sparked fear in me. And then, the highly specialized patterns of behaviors that were used to compensate for not understanding why thinking - my spouse's thinking - is not the same as others, gets in both of our ways.
I see the insecurity in my spouse. I hate that for him. He literally cannot say, "Oops, I goofed." Or even, "Oops, that did not turn out how I envisioned." I see his iron clad determination to push forward and do it his way. I always believed it was due to the fact if he deviated off his original path, everything would go haywire - like it does :)
Thinking about the five major NEGATIVE symptoms of ADHD:
chronic lateness
trouble focusing
procrastination
disorganization
forgetfulness
those are many of the characteristics that many of us Googled or searched, and it led us here. So there really has to be some common denominator, or pattern that leads undiagnosed ADHD to get to this place we find ourselves.
Just as all women are not the same, and all men are not the same, so are not all the people with ADHD the same. It does not alter the fact that there is a bunch of us, who were drawn by the same life experiences, to say, "Hey, my life is just like that." And the common denominator is the undiagnosed or under-treated ADHD.
I pray for the day that insecurity and jealousy and envy can be overcome, and my spouse will welcome assistance.
I do not despise my spouse. I love my spouse. His behavior, well that is a whole different animal. I am continually amazed by his inability to say, "I'm sorry I was late." "I'm sorry I forgot." "Dog-gone, I lost track of time again."
Melissa has a great piece right in this website: " Is Adult ADHD Hurting Your Marriage?"
For me right now in my own marriage, I just am not willing to do both sides of the work. Nor take all the blame for our issues. Feeling forgotten, neglected, disregarded, and even a threat( - yes, I believe my spouse is threatened by other's success) got old. Uncomfortable. and disappointing. For me. My greatest fear is not divorce. It is rather my spouse will become the grubby ol' hoarder, with the yard full of stuff, glaring at anyone who gets near his stuff. Maybe a wild imagining, but real none-the-less.
I want to be the Gramma and Grampa who have the fun yard for the grandchildren - someday, we have none right now - where we all gather for holidays. And enjoy each other.
Motivation Is An Art Form
Submitted by kellyj on
Thanks for your comments I'm So Exhausted...and I do hear you. Really! We (with ADHD) are a real pain in the ass it's true! I can see myself all over these comments but I give myself enough credit to actually see it at least. That's a start....actually it's the first mandatory requirement.
The second mandatory requirement is to get us to want to do something about it...or anything at all for that matter. lol I know I've made the 'herding cats' reference on this forum before but it does fit pretty well.
But until you get past the first two requirements.....everything else becomes moot. That's truly where I see most of the spouses on this forum who are struggling and you have my deepest sympathy.
I didn't see "stubborn" on your list but it should be....it does go with the territory ( in reference to my post ). I know I combined my hyper focus with commitment, passion and drive and what you get is....stubborn. Especially when it comes to anything I set my mind to....good or bad.
If I were to give anyone a bit of advise (you in this case)...or tip/secret (based on myself).....get me to "want to" do something. At this point, your work is done. I'll take off in that direction stubbornly, passionately with reckless abandon in a highly motivated fashion all by myself without any more input......
and avoid negative reinforcement like the plague deserved or not....I'll lock the brakes up in a heart beat when this happens even now when I see what's happening. This is what I am trying to avoid in myself and it's one of the old reactions that is the hardest to control and stop.
Making someone want to do anything comes from getting the person to want to please you without being coercive. If you have ever witnessed a great sports coach in action you know what I'm talking about.
The real trick to this is leading by example....it really is that simple but very hard to do. It requires integrity and patience too....lots of patience.
That's all I have to offer but I know how well this does work with me
Remember Tom Sawyer and the white washed picket fence?
It is an art form for sure.
J
question for JJameison
Submitted by dvance on
Here's something--why should the person who does NOT have ADHD have to get the ADHD person to "want to do something" ?? Why should that be our job?? Based on what I read here, not just my own experience, the ADHD person not only doesn't accomplish very much, but often makes more work for the non-ADHD person with impulsive decisions, foolish spending, half-finished projects, lateness, things forgotten. And you yourself are quite eloquent and self-aware about your own ADHD struggles. So explain to me why the ADHD person, if they have that awareness, can't figure out that large parts of adult life are doing things you don't particularly want to do, things that don't have big payoffs, things that aren't fun. And if the ADHD person does not have that awareness, then what? How do the non-ADHD person in their life convince them that there is a problem? That things aren't equal.
I read lots and lots of the posts here and by and large, ADHD is not conducive to a healthy marriage. Lots of us seem really tired of being the only adult in the marriage, the one who gets stuck doing the un-fun things, having to word many communications a certain way, talk to the ADHD person at certain times, make sure they are not "flooded" with information, that we are not interrupting what they are doing at that moment, that we only make one request at a time because the ADHD person may not be able to hold onto more than one piece of information for more than a minute. We have to handle the stuff that the ADHD person isn't good at or isn't interested in or doesn't even realize needs to be done. And we should also see the FUN and CHILDLIKE DELIGHT in the way the ADHD person sees the world, because for an ADHD person, the world is fun. ADHD people can opt out of anything they don't want to do/aren't interested in/can't remember/don't realize needs to be done. ADHD people can say they are tired from working so hard to pay attention and compensate for their ADHD that that is all they can manage in a day. Okay, then, how in the world can a marriage work under those conditions unless the non-ADHD person is just willing to suck it all up??? to not have a moment where they don't have to pay attention because no one has their back?
I have taught junior high for 12 years and have had plenty of kids with ADHD in my classroom. I believe it is REALLY hard to live with ADHD. It's been described to me as having static playing in your head all the time. I see my students trying and I believe it is really hard for them. I don't have any answers, I just know it's darn near impossible to live with in any kind of equal relationship.
Been reading comments around the web
Submitted by Standing on
from many people who are diagnosed with add. They care. They sound honest and humble and sincere.
My husband is not. Doesn't even matter why, whether npd or coping mechanisms that distorted his self perception. He likes himself just fine the way he is. I do not, therefore the problem is mine. What am I going to do about it?
That is the question i ask myself.
I'll Do My Best to Answer dvance
Submitted by kellyj on
I want to pre-qualify everything I say as being (only) from me....not as a way to opt out or in fear that I'm wrong, but to give you a straight up point of view that is unadulterated by anything that I've read or learned ( which is impossible, lol ) saying hopefully : it's a balanced point of view seeing both sides in my own words. That way I don't have to keep writing based on me or speaking for myself. OK? ha
why should the person who does NOT have ADHD have to get the ADHD person to "want to do something" ??
Because at the end of the day we're all selfish to a certain degree. (unless you are Jesus or the Buhhda )...whcih I've long since dropped that as one of my life long goals. (sorry for the sarcasm). But that's not what I'm talking about. There is an aspect of having ADHD which is very real....it's not something that I can describe well but it is a deficiency. I hit up against it all the time...every day in fact. It's a very real invisible wall that you have to recognize in order to do anything about and it does require some extra effort to push through in order to do things. If I had the answer to this I could get rich or maybe even the Nobel Peace Prize.
But simply put in light of what I just said. No one likes having to do something just because other people want them to and it becomes even worse if the other person is haranguing them over it. The tendencies is to say.....go F*&k yourself! It's pointing at this thing and saying..."hey, don't be this way. I don't like it so just stop it" And we hit this invisible wall and can't seem to stop. If you don't believe this is true then there's part of the problem. We have a deficient that we're working against that you can't know or understand because we don't know or understand why either? It's like saying "hey, be like everyone else....get your toes on the line especially because it bother's me." How effective is that?
Does this give us a built in excuse. No. Does this explain or point to an aspect of ADHD that is real but with recognition and work can be overcome enough to make it manageable. Yes. Does it help to have people dismiss this as real and or deny it's existence? No. Does it make it any easier to do anything about in the face of the fact that someone is pointing out that you do these things and it is a problem for them. No...it only makes it worse.( the pressure is on and so is the anxiety associated with this fact).
It's not about wanting to do a specific behavior ( what ever it is) as you are referring to....it's about wanting and needing to get up enough gumption and energy to go to battle with this invisible wall all the time....that's what I'm talking about in getting someone to "want to do something." I could be way wrong in this next statement so I apologize if I am but.......it appears that this "thing" is one of the stumbling blocks to those who don't have ADHD in 1) understanding, believing or seeing that it does exist. And then realizing or seeing that you are with someone who has this challenge and then being OK with this fact....to the degree that if affects you negatively and what you are willing to accept from that point.
Simply put......you have to allow a certain amount of grace in something that you can't see or understand without letting it become an excuse or a reason for us not to do anything about it at all without beating us up, nagging or being coercive in your expectations. That's a lot to ask. Would it be easier just to move on to someone who doesn't have this challenge. Yup. And trust me......we know it! Can we compensate for this in other ways? Maybe....... depending on the person you're with but definitely not everyone.
So which one are you? That's always the question.
Why should that be our job??
It's not. But depending on how you approach us it can make our job harder or more difficult. Back to what I've been saying. Another thing to think about is.......did your spouse make this your job voluntarily along the way or did you sign up voluntarily by default? Something to think about. This is where it gets really confusing I think. Back to.....who decided the way things should be? or was there ever even any real conversation or agreement made to anything in the first place? It's a fair question? ( more as a rhetorical but thought provoking one not just to be contrary or difficult)
Based on what I read here, not just my own experience, the ADHD person not only doesn't accomplish very much, but often makes more work for the non-ADHD person with impulsive decisions, foolish spending, half-finished projects, lateness, things forgotten.
You're making a definitive statement about having ADHD that is true and not true at the same time. Within each thing that you listed here I can see myself within each one. Some of them don't apply to me at all....like foolish spending. But I was raised in a way that countered my predisposition to do this one so it never was a problem. Do I see how I could be this way in direct reference to ADHD and what you've said. Yes. It falls in line with the other things that I do have issues with like half-finished projects but yet I don't have a problem with foolish spending. Why?.....I don't really know except for what I just said.
But that's also why it appears to be individual from one person to the next and it's as hard for me to say "this is ADHD" and "this is NOT" even for myself.
Now compare that to what I just said about the "invisible wall" thing that I am so sure about. Sounds flakey doesn't it? How can I be so sure about the one and not about the other. I can't explain this but I am. I do know some things are definitely real and ADHD related because I hit up against them for no apparent reason by themselves. I've gone after each one at times and always smack into this "invisible wall" thing I mentioned and now when I hit it......I recognize it as ADHD. I also know in some other areas that things definitely AREN'T ADHD related and I have no excuse or explanation for behavior more or less than anyone else. (no invisible wall experience) It's a very weird and selective process.
What doesn't help is when other people start trying to do this process for me. I would like to say sometimes ( but don't) " How the F*&k would you know? Do you have an invisible wall you keep hitting up against. I'm thinking the answer would be "NO" or else we wouldn't be here having this conversation would we? (excuse the profanity)
Therein lies the problem.
So explain to me why the ADHD person, if they have that awareness, can't figure out that large parts of adult life are doing things you don't particularly want to do, things that don't have big payoffs, things that aren't fun.
I can't....that would be childish. It's not about wanting or not wanting to do something....(back to going to battling with the wall) It's about finding what works and what doesn't work and then sticking to it which also means not letting someone else try and decide for you the best or right way to do something. That's where it starts to become disastrous. There's no going thorough the wall..... only finding a way around it in each case. If other people can't see this aspect then they will continue to keep trying to get you to go through it even it it doesn't exist for them. Sorry...it doesn't work that way. Finding a way around the wall is like like playing a video game with hidden doors and magic keys. it takes lots of repeated attempts before you find them...only through repetition and discovery. Is this a pain in the ass for you. Yes. it's also a pain for us too....FYI. I know this doesn't give you a lot of solace but again....it's very real for us.
And if the ADHD person does not have that awareness, then what? How do the non-ADHD person in their life convince them that there is a problem? That things aren't equal.
Part one......you're SOL......so is he/she. Part two...I don't know. Part three. Yes....is that OK? Are there other parts that balance out the inequities? Only you have that answer for yourself.
J
What is this thing called ADHD
Submitted by Tired-to-my-bones on
I've been thinking a lot recently about which bits of my husband's behaviour are ADHD (neurological) and which bits aren't (social/learned). If you have lived with undiagnosed/recognised ADHD for a long time, in his case 55 years, you will have learned all manner of strategies to cope and compensate. Pop into the mix the general personality, for example, kind/generous/social or angry/mean and it is easy to get totally bamboozled by what we, as non ADHD spouses are dealing with.
If I had to try and sort out who and what he is, I would say he is generally
kind, generous, social,good at DIY, willing to help others in a crisis (and me if the crisis hasn't been caused by him), quick to forgive and doesn't hold grudges, a good father
he procrastinates,finds it difficult to listen and make sense of what he is hearing, finds it hard to hold information especially when he feels under fire,operates from behind a wall, only venturing out under his own terms
he mislays things continually, cannot forward plan and hates making a commitment to something in the future
he self talks out loud, particularly when trying to make a decision
he has a need to say the opposite of anything I say when discussing ordinary every day stuff
has addictive behaviours
says inappropriate things to get a laugh in public
unobservant
unable to learn from past mistakes
has a long history of serial isolationist hobbies and interests
finds it difficult to negotiate so that both parties benefit
needs to control
somewhat delusional about his skills and abilities but feels threatened by a sense of inadequacy
So. He has some self awareness. He truly doesn't want to hurt and upset me. But he honestly believes that his world view is correct and that mine is flawed. It has taken coming to this site and becoming aware of adult ADHD to begin the process of identifying that I am not a mad, unreasonable, demanding harridan. That (and this is a brand new awareness this week for him) his family, and in particular his mother, are not visions of perfection. This has been a very painful realisation for him as he has held aloft the virtues of his mother all our marriage. She and his siblings have always been placed above me in his mental map of importance.
ADHD behaviours, we have realised, are the norm in his family. We in laws have had to negotiate the myth of his family being a tight cohesive unit who love each other no matter what. What we have realised this week, is that individual needs have been sacrificed for the family image and his mother's needs. In laws must not challenge this. Or face being scape goated. As I have been by him and them. Much easier to blame the in law than take a good hard look at the family dynamic.
Oh my. What a tangled web.
I think that we have hit a rich seam to explore and come to terms with. His admission that his family is not perfect, is a major one. I don't want revenge. I don't want retribution. I want acknowledgement and validation that it hasn't been all my fault.
How much of this is the ADHD? How much is the family dynamic?
I think that the family dynamic has played an enormous role in shaping his learned behaviours. The ADHD aspect of my husband's behaviours has been enhanced negatively by this. Who knows what he would be like if he hadn't been saddled with this myth of the perfect family.
"So. He has some self awareness."
Submitted by Standing on
Tired-to-my-bones, Hi. I am stuck on this line about self-awareness. In my world, the fact that my husband is threatened by a sense of inadequacy has not created any positives; in fact, just the opposite. I am trying to sort between the add and the narcissistic personality disorder with which he has now been diagnosed.
All that you wrote about your husband is true of mine, except for this:
"kind, generous, social,good at DIY, willing to help others in a crisis (and me if the crisis hasn't been caused by him), quick to forgive and doesn't hold grudges, a good father". This part is convoluted in him.
He can be kind, if he's in an expansive mood. He can be short-tempered and hostile more often than not, because he is in that mode of feeling full of himself and superior, especially when he thinks someone is criticizing (whether or not they actually are).
He can be generous on impulse, in an over-the-top fashion. But these days, more often than not, I see the "hooks" in his "generosity", as he throws money/things at problems to boost his ego/appearance.
He is social only when the socializing revolves around his passion/area of hyperfocus or when he can talk about himself.
He can be good at DIY, if the notion strikes him, but usually it doesn't, because now he considers himself too busy and important to be bothered.
He does not help anyone unless forced to by circumstances or if he can benefit in some way, and then he only gives the minimum effort, barely. In ten years, I have never seen him help anyone move, clear storm damage, change a tire, or anything else.
He does not hold a grudge... that's an interesting one. I've always said that is true about him, but now I am seeing more clearly. It's more like he cannot retain focus long enough to appear to hold a grudge, but I've observed his attempts to get back at people who have slighted him, when the opportunity drops into his lap.
He has been a horrible step-father to my kids: bullying, controlling, micro-managing, intrusive, and generally obnoxious.
Wow. Maybe all the differences there are due to the narcissism... I don't know. Helps to break it down and look more closely, though.
It is Wonderful!!! that your husband has had some recent insight into the dynamics within his family of origin. I am so glad for you that your views have been validated. I hope that he will retain this new information and expand upon it, for the benefit of your relationship. I'm afraid that the family dynamic within my own husband's childhood was such that all of the Unwarranted, Unrealistic, Born of Denial praise and positive affirmations heaped upon him warped his psyche. He truly believes that he deserves the best and does not have the tools or the desire to count the cost.
Best wishes!
ADHD - eclipsed by Narcissism
Submitted by Tired-to-my-bones on
Dear Standing
As I have posted on another thread, my father was a narcissist. He displayed all the behaviours that you describe in your husband. In fact one of my sister's abiding memories is of him showering pocket money on our cousins while we sat in silence watching. In public he would insist on buying drinks for everyone, but in private kept my mother so short of housekeeping money that she had to beg him for money to buy food for us children. He spent enormous amounts of money on his hobbies while we children relied on hand me down clothes from neighbours. One of my father's favourite sayings was 'it'll keep'. He harboured grudges for years. And only if the person concerned made suitable amends according to his warped world view would he allow them back into his world. People who sussed him out were to be cast off as they served no purpose in his fragile little domain. My sister was cast out when he asked her to choose between him and her husband!!!!!!! He was cowardly and would wait for opportunities to fall into his lap to take sneaky revenge.What I understand, and I am no expert, is that narcissists can't be treated. The focus of any treatment is based around those affected by the narcissist's behaviours. They are incapable of change. There are a number of good websites (whose names escape me at the moment) which can help you negotiate your way through this. They helped me enormously to gain insight into my father's nasty little world and gave me the courage to stand up to him, tell him clearly that I wanted no part in his life any more and walk away.
Reading your post, I am struck by this and not the ADHD. I do hope you are keeping yourself safe. Take care.
thank you, Tired-
Submitted by Standing on
"Oh My, What a Tangled Web"
Submitted by kellyj on
I love what you said here and you have come to the same place I have come to myself. Very observant I might add. How much of this is the ADHD? How much is the family dynamic?
I'm not sure anyone can answer this question (yet?). Maybe some day but it really doesn't matter in terms of someone's ability to adjust and make changes for the better. Better to ask is what is an individuals potential ability to do this? That is also based on the individual. Yes....people can surprise you. I've surprised myself at times by doing something that I didn't think I could do. Armed with that I know it is possible. How long will that take. Who knows? Do I (or my wife) see the improvements over time. Yes. Is that good enough (fast enough) for her or anyone else for that matter. Only you can answer that.
I want acknowledgement and validation that it hasn't been all my fault.
Take that to the bank....it's not. Do we (ADHD'ers) have difficulty seeing this ( seeing how we differ or not seeing how different we are at times...and the problems associated with it). Yes. But we have to get to the place where we see this before you are going to get that validation from us. I'll give it to you right know if it's any consolation.
But once we do.....does that change anything for you? Is that all you need from us or do you want the problems to change with this admission? It's a rhetorical question but with it comes the next obvious step. Now what?
I really love this because it does reduce things to their lowest common denominator on both sides.
All I can say is in reference to myself......and what I learned is this ( to date). My ADHD in some ways has put me at a disadvantage right from the start.....disadvantage simply being starting from behind others in certain ways. Can you catch up? I believe you can. In many ways I've already done it.....in others I'm still peddling as fast as I can to do so.
And in some ways ( I can think of a few)...it has given me an advantage. I started out ahead of others in a few ways ( less than the negatives I'm afraid ). Do these out weigh the disadvantages? I think the tendencies for us is to say yes. Right now I believe the answer is no. Back to admitting reality whether we like it or not. Also back to peddling as fast as I can to catch up in the negative areas by using the positive ones to do it in part. "When one door closes....another one opens....." This is true.
The best answer I have to your original question is: "it gives the person ( with it ) a higher propensity to act and behave in a specific group or constellation of predetermined set(s) of collective behaviors which may or may not be influenced by many other factors including environment (experience,upbringing and family) and genetic (God given? ) abilities. These behaviors are common to everyone in this relationship however appear at a lower performance level compared to the norm within this specific group of behaviors"
Wow.....that's a mouthful. But all this means is we're not as good at some things as most ( being the majority ) of other people. We sit at the low side of the bell shaped curve in these areas.....that's pretty much it.
Except for the fact that it is possible to raise your grade from a "D-" to perhaps a "B+". If you need "A+" you're SOL. Speaking for myself, to do this would require dedicating myself to this goal to the point that it goes way past the point of diminishing returns. At that point there's no benefit at all in doing this.
So the question now becomes.....do you need "A+" or is "C+" or even "B-" acceptable? Only you can tell us what is acceptable for you and we need to know this as much as you need to be validated that this is not all you and no you're not going crazy thinking that we have these issues.
You're definitely not out to lunch in your thinking.....and we need to keep this in mind when it is being pointed out to us even if we can't see it. That require us to trust you and have faith that you will do with this in our best interest as well as your own.
J
Trust is the key
Submitted by Tired-to-my-bones on
Hi JJamieson - thank you for your considered reply. I really appreciate it. Acknowledgement and validation is enough for me. My husband has had an enormous break through moment this week and that'll do me. He is fortunate enough to have found fulfillment and an outlet for his talents as an artist. He has talked openly and with humour about his ADHD to his (artist) colleagues. They recognise that they display ADHD traits too. In their world it's the norm.
We have laughed too. All these years of trying to find a way to live peaceably....... not only were we not barking up the right tree.......we weren't even in the right f**k**g field.
Once we knew what we were dealing with. It was simple. I get it. And it's ok. Most of the time I am happier than I have been since the earliest days of our marriage.I had forgotten what happy feels like. The danger times are when we are tired/stressed. We had a blip last week but have come through it. It's ok.
But the key word for me in your reply is trust. I could never understand why my husband could not trust me to be saying and doing things that were in our best interests. He could not get beyond the 'yes but, no but' approach to sorting out problems.
He drives me bonkers still. But we have never lived in each other's pockets. I have learned not to expect too much or ask for much. What I am appreciating in current times is his overt efforts to check himself, to going with my suggestions without long protracted (often meaningless) objections, just to see what it's like. I have no desire to control but I do have a desire to be one half of a partnership, which has benefits for both. I have no problem with saying sorry. I have no problem with owning my baggage and the role I have played in enabling what has gone on between us. We are rediscovering the humour and silliness we enjoy together when things are good. I am optimistic about the future for the first time in so long. He seems to be trusting me.
You're There!
Submitted by kellyj on
Keep doing what you are doing. Sounds like you are doing something right whatever it is. My best advise is just to keep doing it. We need structure and consistency.....and someone we can count on. Especially in those moments when we slip. For me....slipping isn't the end of the world and it certainly isn't any indicator that I'm going to stop proceeding as planned or keep going backwards. It's a zig zag line on the chart but it stair steps upward as you move forward. If my spouse ( you in this case ) take the same attitude then everything will be fine. Slipping isn't and excuse either. I say I'm sorry sincerely but need to be allowed that much grace....in other words, I'm genuinely sorry that my wife has to deal with this and just because I still miss sometimes only validates that I have ADHD in the first place. Her accepting that I have ADHD and am not going to be perfect only fuels my fire to improve. I see this as an outward sign that she loves me and nothing else. It pays dividends in so many ways for both of us.
Consistency and repeatability.....and lots of second chances to get it right. That's all I could ever ask for. I've proven that this works by the improvements that both of us can see but I can't do it all tomorrow or perfectly ever. In some cases ( like with the smaller annoyances) I may never really stop....for example, forgetting to get everything on the grocery list especially if it's verbal. I usually manage to miss at least one! the times that I don't we celebrate!
Let those go....there are a lot more important things to consider. Look at how much your relationship has improved with trusting each other. What's more important? Olives on the Pizza?
FYI: I'm an Artist too......in a continuing education class I took once, the art professor asked me " are you dyslexic?"......"No, I'm ADHD" I relplied. He said " yeah, it's usually one or the other.....artists usually show up here with one and I'm pretty good at spotting it. I watched you work and I could tell.....your just one in the crowd in the Art world."
I'll take his word for it. lol
J