I posted this on another topic:
"
The love languages are a real thing, I encourage anyone to find out what their love language is, and what their spouse's is as well. For instance, my H language is "Acts of Service" almost exclusivly. And mine is a mix of "Physical Touch" and "Words of Affirmation" (physical touch doesnt have to be sexual touch FYI). Based on that, the goal for our relationship would be for:
1. me to become comfortable with accepting his acts of service as him expressing love to me
2. learn how to express love to him with acts of service (finding out nice things I can DO for him)
3. him to become comfortable with accepting "physical touch" and "words of affirmation" from me as expressions of love (and not manipulation or control)
4. him to learn how to express love to me with "physical touch" and "words of affirmation"."
really it it boiled down to H not wanting to do 3 and 4..... These are our issues boiled down to its most basic ingredient. He is not willing and doesn't want to speak " my language". To do that would require more work than it's worth to him. So off he runs, to find the easier path. He doesn't realize that the same obstacles he faces now are not going away with me. They are not mine. The chains that control him are not designed or made by me. Whe. I am gone, they will still imprison him. When I am out of his life, the same suffering and debilitating fear he thinks he is escaping will end up being his only company until he replaces me with what ever better version he thinks he wants.
I dont think he understands that the work that I and his therapists and all the books and articles talk about are the keys to unlocking his chains, of freeing himself and experiencing real control over his destiny for the first time ever. He says he doesn't control his life, but he has made every decision that plotted the course of our life, from where we lived to what we ate, to what we listened to and what we watched. I have only set 2 rules.... 1 do not cheat, 2 no porn period. That's it, that's the only control I have ever enforced, everything else was his idea, his goal, his push for what ever.
but the life I offered him is not enough, all because doing 2 small things was no worth the effort to him.
And when he leaves, I will pick up the pieces, start a new life, a happy life.
I KNOW I am worth it.
In the meantime, my heart hurts in unimaginable ways. It's like watching your home burn and no one is willing to douse the flames. It's watch the very people who abused and controlled him as a child win. They still frighten him into submission. I hate them. They have won. He is running and hiding.
Of course, considering how
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Of course, considering how content and relaxed he is about ending a 5 year marriage and a 7 year romance on top of an almost 30 year friendship could simply mean that all that I'm broken talk is just an easy excise to hide what is vey possibly the truth.
That at he never was in love with me, knew it the moment he saw me in the flesh, but didn't know how to get out of it. Then realized that I could make his financial problems go away... And according to several of his closest friends (the ones he will be running to when this is done), he really has just been using me for the lifestyle I can provide and perhaps now he has realized that the well has dried up, that I am demanding more than just the promises of working on things. It sure hurts, but It makes a lot more sense than him being "broken"..... Broken and so unwilling to get any help.
i doubt he would even be able to admit it to himself if it were true. I hate to think that this was the case, but it has been a near constant Spector over our relationship from all sides. Except from me and his mother. I have categorically refused to accept any of that as truth, but maybe I need to reevaluate this. I just find it hard to believe that some one would not even take the most basic steps to help themself is they truly loved their spouse.
Maybe be I am just thinking of the lengths I have gone through to support him and help him, only to see him abandon me at every key moment he was needed, and now... To be walking out for good. I just could not do it and be so cavalier about it. I could not be with someone and do so little.....
I'm sorry that you're hurting
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I'm sorry that you're hurting.
Is he pulling the plug or you? It sounds like you're fed up and ending it.
I agree with your assessment that he sees you as a solution to money issues. His friends will tire of him soon.
I guess you can say that I am
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
I guess you can say that I am, though he has said for years off and on that he is "broken" can cant be a husband, and that he isnt sure he wants to be married. Its a cycle, he says that - then he tells me his life is with me, his future is with me (this is when he is activly treating and working on things). Then - something will happen (usually to me - like my mother dying, or his daughter moving somewhere etc, OR he gets caught lying about something or he gets called out on his slacking and lack of follow through with something - anything requiring responsibility, empathy, caring on his part) and at that point its all "I dont know how to be a husband, I dont think I 'can' be married etc. Because god forbid he be held accountable or stand up and be a man for his wife. Thats too hard, thats too much for him.
He would rather retreat into some spare bedroom at a friends house, play games, 'hang out' and have fun - AS LONG as they have no expectations of them. And they wont, they have known him forever. They wont care that he doesn't come out of his room for hours or days, they wont care that he retreats mentally - because as long as he wants to talk shit and have fun - that's all they care about. I am not saying they don't care for him - they do in their own ways, but they have their own lives etc. I doubt they will tire of him because I don't think they care about having hangers on.... weird and hard to explain. They are friends for sure - but not more than that. They will all say they are family - but if and when shit gets real, they will not be there to pick up the peices for him, and at some point they are going to move forward in their own lives - and have already expressed they want to do it ALONE and not with the roommates. Of which I am sure he will be soon- beacuse he cant do it on his own. He will say he cant afford it - but what he means is he cant afford to support himself AND feed his wants. Like armor for fighting, endless amounts of candy, cookies, junk food, video game subscriptions, new computers when his cant keep up, the newest and latest iphone (and his extensive data usage which is $$$).
The reality - there was never a plug to pull. His heart has never been in this marriage. I have just accepted it and am ready to move on now. In my anger last night I said the sooner he is out of my life the better, but there is truth in there. The longer he is here, the longer it will take for me to get past this. I dont want him to leave until my dog dies - I dont want his last days on this earth filled with confusion and chaos and wondering where he is. Once he is gone - he will leave. So there is no time table at the moment other than standing hospice for my little dog who has already been through too much.
>>He would rather retreat
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>>He would rather retreat into some spare bedroom at a friends house, play games, 'hang out' and have fun - AS LONG as they have no expectations of them. And they wont, they have known him forever. They wont care that he doesn't come out of his room for hours or days, they wont care that he retreats mentally - because as long as he wants to talk shit and have fun - that's all they care about. >>>
Well, I doubt that they'll put up with him for long, even if they "know him".
When my H moved out, his brother and his wife happily opened their doors to him and encouraged him to divorce me. They don't know me, they live far away and we RARELY visited. They only knew the lies H had told them. So, they gave him a room, fed him, etc. And, they set up a divorce attorney and filed.
Oh they were so pleased with themselves for "rescuing" poor H from his wicked mean wife.
Well, in short order they tired of H's antics. He was rude to them, slept in all the time, never helped with any chores, broke some things, and yelled a lot. One time H called me and I could hear my sister in law yelling at him in the background.
I got the last laugh because H moved out of their home and rarely speaks to them.
I've let them know that if anything happens to H (H has very poor health), I will not be telling them, nor will I inform them when he passes. I know that may sound mean, but they cost me tens of thousands of dollars, and I will never subject myself to being around them, particularly at H's funeral. I'll let them find out maybe a year or so later...maybe. They are fools. Who the hell believes an addict?
Anyway, the point is that your H's friends will tire of his mooching off of them.
I think you're smart for ending it. You're taking your power back instead of being subjected to his constant claims that he's going to leave or end the marriage etc.
Thanks Overwhelmed! I
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Thanks Overwhelmed! I definately think its the right move too - and every day its confirmed to me as he puts more and more focus on a video game he said he would "never" play again, that he would "never" allow back into his life because even HE was done with it. Well, they made a movie, and of course since then I have seen video after video roll through the logs about that game. He even went to the game site itself (no doubt trying to find out what the new stuff was and what he was gonna need to do to start playing again). I noticed he kept his log in FOB to the game handy again (when before it was packed away). This is the same game that he ignored me for, and then even told me to my face it was more important to him than I was - one month after my previous husband (who was still like a best friend to me) died. Well, he can go back to his true love, he can finally be reunited with that is most important to him. he can go find his glorious happiness as a level 82 warlock or what ever status he can get in game. You know - things that are important, unlike doing ANYTHING AT ALL to get help for his issues, and put even the slightest bit of effort into saving his marriage.... but you know, priorities.
Funny thing is - I dont care about someone playing games, I think most are pretty cool and wish I could play them myself (cant because of some stupid vertigo issues). But when someone who has ZERO control of themselves play, and they let all parts of their life crumble around them because the game is more important - I find it sad and pathetic. I hope when they are old, and alone (as they surely will be) memories of being in game will give them peace and joy.
So thats my rant this morning. Yes, I have done the right thing by not stopping him from leaving for sure. I will not battle his demons anymore. I will not enable him to live like a victim anymore. Oh, he will still do it - but it wont be with my help. He will think I just hate him, but the fact is - I am doing this out of love, for both him and myself. I still do love him, but I am learning that I loved someone who only existed in my mind. I loved the man who said I was his world, and who was going to read the books, do the work, step it up. But that man was just wispers on the wind.
He says he wants control of his life, well- he has always had it, but if it takes getting away from me - the wicked, mean, controlling wife (who gave him pretty much anything and everything he wanted WHEN he wanted it), so be it. He can walk out the door to what is no doubt his dream life. He thinks he is going to be able to stuff everything down deep inside and never deal with it - and I believe him. He will, but he will also loose everything else as well - but he knows better than ALL the doctors, the counselers, the authors etc. Its very, very sad to see. But I suspect on the surface he will be as happy as a little lark.
As for his friends, we have all known eachother for 30 years. (I was gone for about half of that granted) They wont do anything about it, and while I love them very much - I dont depend or count on them for anything in depth. They are very self centered people. And while they are fun, and I love spending time with them - I know what they are and I would never make a claim that they would stand by me through thick and thin. H no doubt thinks they will for him - and they will to an extent that doesnt interfere with their wants. As soon as that happens - you are right, they will tire of it.
They have another roommate who has been there for 15 years or so it seems. He has never changed. He has never grown. He still lives like he is 22 - with nothing to show for it. No doubt 10 years from now it will be the same for H. He will be a 53 year old man who lives with friends, who is obsessed with the games, and maybe he will have a girlfriend - maybe even another woman as dumb as me who will marry him because she believes him when he says he loves her, and would never abandon her, and will work on being a better man for himself and for her.
*I* am clearly not good enough, and just not pretty enough (this I have known since that look he gave me 7 years ago), and surely at this point, with the weight I have gained, he sees nothing but a fat blob who will never be appealing or attractive. Because he doesnt see ME. He lives on the surface of himself, so can only see the surface of me. I used to think it was something I was doing, but now - now I am becoming more and more sure of what this really is. I think it hit me 2 months ago, and since then - its just being confirmed daily. Done with it.
Why
Submitted by kellyj on
Stacey...I've come to terms with what I was looking to find here sp for now...so I am going to focus my energies on other things now.
I would be remiss however...in not passing on what I learned.(there is a reason for this..the answer comes from my Love language ) (references in parenthesis )
You see...I have answers for myself (the reason why I went to therapy to find these answers for myself...no one made me do it. I wanted to...because I wanted to know. Part of the reason I've become a detective is to uncover (secrets )...which helped me find answer for these very things you mentioned and speculated on.
I know many of these secrets for me and me only (I'm only an expert on myself )
However, you could apply the concepts to find my secrets and use them here yourself.......
To answer the question "why?"
Speaking, only as the authority of myself here to you....in my own language (using what I've learned from others...not what I have come up with myself personally which is wrought with pitfalls and emotions and too much to sort out at any given time for myself....that would be incoherent to you the listener )
As crayon mentioned...there is not enough room here to begin to explain "how". I know "how"...but that would require a lengthy explanation (splain'in and incoherence and difficult to follow )
Instead...I'll just use what others have written as part of where I learned these things from but mostly like I said. I learned it all in therapy to begin with.
To hasten that process...I'll just cobble the pieces together to give you and over view of the path and the concepts to use in order to conserve time, space and energy...and get right to the bottom line. ( this is what I do)
The path itself is what you are speculating for your H and his motives (his modus operandi ). The first step for any detective is in figuring out and discovering the first ingredient of the crime of who done it. What is that person is getting out of this or have to gain for themselves (Thomas Hobbs- Hobbsian philosophy )
The reason: "random acts of violence and senseless acts of cruelty".
The effect: What is broken? Your heart. The path is to find a means to heal what is broken and reconnect with your heart.
The cause: Robert K. Merton listed five possible causes of unanticipated consequences in 1936:[13]
1) Ignorance, making it impossible to anticipate everything, thereby leading to incomplete analysis
2) Errors in analysis of the problem or following habits that worked in the past but may not apply to the current situation
3) Immediate interests overriding long-term interests
4) Basic values which may require or prohibit certain actions even if the long-term result might be unfavorable (these long-term consequences may eventually cause changes in basic values)
5) Self-defeating prophecy, or, the fear of some consequence which drives people to find solutions before the problem occurs, thus the non-occurrence of the problem is not anticipated
The pitfalls of the reward and punishment system: Unintended consequences can be grouped into three types:
Unexpected benefit: A positive, unexpected benefit (also referred to as luck, serendipity or a windfall)....( the secret )
Unexpected drawback: A negative, unexpected detriment occurring in addition to the desired effect of the policy (e.g., while irrigation schemes provide people with water for agriculture, they can increase waterborne diseases that have devastating health effects, such as schistosomiasis).(anxious- preoccupied attachment Attachment Theory )
Perverse result: A perverse effect contrary to what was originally intended (when an intended solution makes a problem worse). This is sometimes referred to as 'backfire'. (avoidant-dismissive/fearful attachment: Attachment Theory)
The cure and the secret: "practice random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty and charity"
Pay it Forward
For me...this is the secret I learned by accident. The unexpected payoff. It's why artists don't always make a lot of money if money is the only goal. Charity is great....but you've got to make a living too.
This became my operating condition and principle I work from. The Golden Rule is the foundation of this system. (Stand alone feature) with no other belief system involved. ( My inherent core value system )
Caveat: Charity as I'm saying this...does not come from sympathy and feeling sorry or out of pity and needs to be strongly avoided for this to work. It will lead you to the wrong result and the result in this case is bad for you if you need to heal what is already broken.
To be...."in service" of others...does not work here. (Hobbsian Philosophy as the means to support my claim ) As I'm saying this...is cannot be adulterated, manipulated,contrived, coerced or prescribed in any other way to be in it's purist form or it will not work. It has to be in it's purest form or IT WILL NOT WORK.
On the receiving end for the benefit of others yes. But not for you. for you this only causes a detriment for each act done for this reason as part of any other system beyond yourself. That ism in the long term without having something else replace it. That's the requirement for this type of charity to work for you only. When it's prescribed and followed as a rule or requirement with fear involved for an intimate payoff with no foreseen benefit for you in the moment. That in itself is a perversion of the secret in that it creates a disconnect...from the secret itself when applied to the reward system that must be felt at the time in order for this to work with you as the sole beneficiary with no other strings attached. This is 100%...self serving. It has to be...or it won't work.
People with ADHD need to feel the consequences of their action in the moment for anything to get through. It has to be this way...or it simply will not work. As I'm saying this....all learning needs to happen in the moment...to learn or feel anything. In the NOW. I even say your wasting your time otherwise and I might be right to a lessor degree if only talking about other things but this is not others "things". This has to be specific in it's purist form to work. No variations or deviations otherwise. 0%
So there you go. This is it. Everything you need to know is right here if you want to do the work to find out the "how" part like I did. But this is the bottom line for me Stacey. This is my secret and the Love language that I understand. Not ever....do not ever notice these things which go straight to my heart when received from anyone else.
"Random acts of kindness, beauty (selfless) charity...is what cures the thing that's actually been broken by random acts of violence and cruelty." (perceived by the person with ADHD as such whether anyone else realizes it or not. The damage is done whether by intention or not. Intention is this case....is no excuse and irrelevant )
As I said to you Stacey.....people know Love when they feel it going in either direction...it makes no difference but is very specific to those who have ADHD. For me...this hits the bulls eye every time.
The secrets of the Universe.....
Physical Law: for every action...the is an equal and opposing reaction.
Theory:
Derivation theories
Nobel Prize laureate Herbert A. Simon and philosopher Nicholas Rescher[27] claim that the asymmetry of the causal relation is unrelated to the asymmetry of any mode of implication that contraposes. Rather, a causal relation is not a relation between values of variables, but a function of one variable (the cause) on to another (the effect). So, given a system of equations, and a set of variables appearing in these equations, we can introduce an asymmetric relation among individual equations and variables that corresponds perfectly to our commonsense notion of a causal ordering. The system of equations must have certain properties, most importantly, if some values are chosen arbitrarily, the remaining values will be determined uniquely through a path of serial discovery that is perfectly causal. They postulate the inherent serialization of such a system of equations may correctly capture causation in all empirical fields, including physics and economics.
Stacey. For you....this is my Love Language and my cure for myself with the path way and supporting evidence. I think everything you would ever want to know or find out about...or explain your H's behavior and actions is contained here for you if you really want to know the answer and the secret to "WHY"
I'm paying it forward here....because I believe it and know it's true. I'm the expert and authority of myself and I know what Love feels like the same as anyone else. This is the "fix".
I'm a fixer. It's what I "do":)
I will come back and check in but I couldn't leave without passing this on. I do hope that this will help you and I Love to share secrets;)
J
Thanks j for all your input
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Thanks j for all your input coming from "the other side" so to speak, you have been very helpful.
I do wish you luck, and I suspect you have great things ahead of you with all the work you have done and are doing to manage your adhd. Bravo to you.
I am right in the middle of the hurt, and really am here so that I know I am not alone in this. People don't have a clue. It's the same all through this forum, people feeling alone in the middle of a marriage and that just isn't right. Sad to watch it happen to so many. Sad to see them slip under the water even though you are holding a lifeline to them ready to pull them to safety.
It burns my soul to ashes and insults me to the core to watch him put so much attention and concern and effort into video games and cigarettes.... How invaluable I must be to him. How replaceable and worthless in his eyes. I am less to him than the trash he does t even bother throwing away.
J, I think she's done and deserves the choice to move on
Submitted by Toddschubert@gm... on
sometimes enough IS enough and she needs to consider her life and future now.
Attitude and Your Perception... Crayon
Submitted by kellyj on
I do value your input Crayon and we share the same things in the way we think as I was reading what you said about attitude being a position rather than a feeling. Having run through all the possibilities of things on my end to make sure I had my thinking "right" and really was narrowing it down to something in order to come to a rational place in my mind and being able to really "see" what I was seeing. This was the process (as I see it) of becoming less ambiguous or ambivalent myself....and getting my mind (off the fence) so to speak.
Even if you're "in the game"...that attitude shows through as you said. It's not a feeling and I agree...it's a position or stance.
Causality or causation? Who's to blame? This is the age old.....chicken or the egg question?
As is with your feelings....they can only be your own. You can have an opinion about the way you feel about others....but you can't know what others are thinking. This is impossible right?
The same is true about Attitude.....you can perceive Attitude in others... and see another persons Attitude...much easier than you can "SEE" your own. Your Attitude is perceived by others....but your own Attitude comes from your thinking and your perceptions of yourself only. The same as it is with your feelings.
The question really gets down to.....can you believe yourself and what you are seeing? Not believe in yourself..but actually believe your own Bullshit? I think when someone believes their own Bullshit....is where the problems really come from.
And a HUGE part of that is come from suppression of emotions and not getting them out where you can see them. The same is true to another person. If you are suppressing everything and holding it back out of fear....you aren't going to come off very authentic and appear like you're hiding something.
As I brought up about my own mother putting a bow on everything and calling it "GOOD." If it's not good...and you are angry....then you should say so and not hold that in with the fear that if you do....someone might not like it. That's Bullshit.....and your Bullshit as well on top of it. This is an Attitude that says to others.....I can get away with anything with this person....they never going to call me out or say anything to me to stop me.
That's an Attitude right there...and a really bad one on top of it too.
And as I saw this Attitude clearly in my wife....it wasn't saying I'm done or want to leave....it was saying ( and thumbing her nose at me).."hey, try and stop me...Pooh on you. Don't stand in my way....You're Ass is grass.....and I'm a Lawn Mower."
This is somewhat a perception of my own and less a projection. It was what I was seeing in her Attitude more than I was seeing someone who was wanting to leave.
The healthiest thing that I did and my wife was with me on this one too which is when we would really comunicate and touch base on where we really were.....when she would threaten to leave and I would say....Okay, no problem.....I don't want to stop you...but I don't want you here against your will. You're free to leave and the doors wide open. And if that's what you want.....your a big girl....make up your mind."
We did this a number of times....each time mostly precipitated by my wife. In fact....I never threatened to leave or even want her to go.....but I was pretty indifferent to this Attitude she had and met her with the same indifference that I felt about it.
It was funny Crayon....to the point of walking into our therapist office and sitting down and just matter of factly opening our session with..(ho hum) "Yeah....she want to leave again....but she say it's (we). (silently thinking...."who's" this "we?"....you got a turd in your pocket?) "I don't want her to leave and that's not how I feel at all....but what ever it is that's she's thinking about....she's not really telling me what it is?"
What it "is"....was a bad Attitude mostly. One that says...."I don't like to be told what to do or someone stopping me from getting what I want.
"I want what I want...and YOU can't stop me. And if you're not going to play the game like I want it...then I'm going to leave."
Look at that Attitude for a moment....and consider the source? It's not saying I done and want to leave...
It's saying, "I don't like it when you try and prevent me from being a misbehave little girl who always got her way by acting like this...and now....your not allowing me to be this way...and I don't like it."
That's what it was saying. Who knows where it's coming from ( in another person) or what's behind the Attitude? But until this became more known to me.... and WTF up with that?....I needed to find out more and how to adjust my own perceptions to what's behind it.
As was, without knowing my wife had ADHD and seeing her though the eyes of a non-ADHD person...my attitude pretty much said.."Hey....tough Titties Missy.....I think what you need is a "Time" out little girl. I want an adult as a partner....not a bossy little girl who thinks she can get away with anything and never have her Bullshit called out on especially when it comes at you in a form of intimidation, revenge and retaliation for her own bad Attitude and behavior."
What I said to Stacey about :"absolute power corrupts absolutely?"....if you never learned to behave as a child and always got your way by acting out and being hostile and aggressive.....then that same Attitude is going to come through along with trying to intimidate anyone who will try and stop you.
I see my wife's brother and he is repressed as Hell. He suppresses his emotions and is afraid to say anything sometimes. He jumps when he hear's my wife yell and complain about something and immediately responds by saying "did I do something wrong?" Of if questioned about what he wants or what he wants to do....he is afraid to speak up.
He'll even say..."I'm not saying anything....I'm not going to fight with my sister over anything." to me in private. That right there my friend...is why he is afraid.
As her little brother...and seeing how this played out....little brother was afraid or her sister because big sister use to take advantage of her power over him in a means to over power him to get what she wanted ahead of him to cut off his ability to be "first in line." When you've got limited resources available to you...it's a dog eat dog world out there and every man for themselves.
And as it was told to me about her ex-husband....the interesting part about that.... was he was 12 years younger than her. If you don't see the pattern.....then your not going to see the problem and what the problem is?
My wife would say things like..."I never had this problem in the past in all the years I was married."
"YEAH. RIGHT!!!! You never had anyone tell you NO before...that's the problem. Grow up little girl.....Time to come home to reality!!! "
This was the parent child dynamic happening but what was happening in reality....was a little girl playing the bad ass Mommy....and an Adult who wasn't wanting to play the role of Daddy to a misbehaved little girl but didn't realize my position of my own Attitude and where it was coming from.
This changed literally overnight (almost) once I knew what behind it and could read it correctly. Those were all my perceptions talking and I was projecting it here on the forum.
I do appreciate your read on our situation and you could have been absolutely right if it had not been for what I went through to figure this out. I was reading a lot of things into a lot of the things I was seeing and any one of them could have been right without knowing the source of the problem.
And one of the problems my wife has to....is drawing conclusions immediately and working from her conclusions. She get's locked in tight to her conclusions...and she can't see things any other way sometimes. She reacts and locks into her conclusions and there's just no stopping her sometimes.
Like I said Crayon....with her....it's wasn't as much as "My way or the highway" and looking for a way out.....it was more the "Your Ass is Grass" if you try and stop me from doing anything but not really wanting to leave.
This is a "power grab"...not a an unwillingness of not wanting to be together. That "Ho Hum" attitude about her threatening to leave was accurate. She does not want to leave and wants to be with me and that comes through...but that ODD little girl.....needs a spanking sometimes. I mean that sincerely but not coming from her like her father.
If I approach her in anger as an adult and partner and not repress or suppress my emotions which is the goal of her aggression or intimidation tactics and see it for what it is now.....now that I know....there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of in the same way it would be coming from a child. But letting her get away with that and not saying anything....is the worst nd last things you needed to do.
If absolute power corrupts absolutely......then absolutely you should say something and shut that attitude right down.
What she was in actuality...was a frightened little girl inside who was afraid if she didn't do that...she would be left without anything. That was her reality in the past....but not with me. I'm not her past or anyone like it....including her ex-husband that let her get away with it and retreated from her in fear instead of saying so up front. This retreat and withdraw dynamic as I understand it....is only second to the parent child dynamic in the demise of a relationship.
As I had to come to terms with her....I was left with few options but to not retreat and withdraw and dell with a little girl being the bad ass Mommy who thought she could do anything she wanted and get away with it.
All I can say with me was....."she was barking up the wrong tree." LOL I had to do the best I could with situation at hand and figure out what the problem was first before I knew what to do about it.
Now that I know...it changes everything. And everything has changed for the better because of it. My wife was not going to change her Attitude and I wasn't going to change it for her....I had to be the one to do it....and I needed to know the "WHAT" not the "WHY" in order to do it.
If I learned anything here Crayon....to move someone and get them to change and come to you....if you change your Attitude by knowing the facts and know what you are seeing....you can change a person position even if that positions says I want to "leave you."
No buying in first....and finding out second....and not drawing conclusions and locking into them as I witnessed with my wife doing is exactly what you should do too. I may be Stubborn and many times I have my own issues there.....but jumping to conclusions and not following this pattern myself (stubbornly lol ) came from my intuitions and feelings and following those instead.
Listening and watching myself...is the only way that could happen. That's what you witnessed here....and that's what you saw. You've got to get your own perceptions right...or they'll be telling you the wrong thing.
Causation or causality? Chicken or the egg?
J
J - you nailed it. What you
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
J - you nailed it. What you describe could very well be my husband (though instead of big sister tormenting him - it was other people who went and tormented him in a much more aggregious way, and he is right for ANY feelings he had to take on to survive). I am grateful for all those coping mechanisms that allowed him to survive the abuse (which was horrific and something I could never ever understand totally as I have never been in that boat). I am grateful to that little boy who retreated into himself to protect what he could. I am grateful and thankful in ways that I cannot even express with words that he was able to find the strength to survive. But now, those coping mechanisms have taken over and have stunted his growth emotionally. I dont want him to loose them, but I do want him to learn to control it and not be the guy that says "you cant stop me from what i want I will leave, you cant control me" - just because he is in panic/fear mode and cant see that there is no threat of control coming at him.
J - as much as I would love to read between the lines, and go with hope, I cannot anymore. I have to take him at face value, because in the end, I cannot - ME - *I* - cannot cope with being threatened every day. Feeling like anything I do has to be measured as to not upset the balance. He has told me that he already has come to the conclusion that it will never work for us. He says this, and then will say "you are my life, I know that - I know it will take work, but I am committed". I cant take it anymore.
I can take him working on issues, I can take that we live like roomates, I can take that he forgets things, as long as he puts some focus on remediating the symptoms. I have no problem for him taking the time he needs to deal with the CSA - that is his journey, and I would have supported any way he wanted to take it. If he needed to back off and not deal for a while? No problem. He needs to not think about it for a year? Sure. No problem. He wants to play video games? Sure - go for it, as long as he is still doing his job - and his share of the work on keeping our household together - GO FOR IT, enjoy the hours escaping into a beautiful fantasy land. But the caveat there is he has to control himself. But I certainly have no issue with him DOING it. I will say I would not be accepting of Warcraft in my home ever again. Not after the pain he put me through for that game. But anything else? No problem. I dont mind paying the subscriptions, I dont mind getting him the bonus packs etc. In fact, I encourage him to enjoy those things. I dont have a problem with him going for a swim in the day, or seeing a movie while I work etc.
I dont even mind that he is SMOKING as long as he isnt LYING to me about it.
I want him to persue what he wants, I want him to enjoy life. I want him to excel at everything he does, and will play any role of support that he wants me to play.
But what I expect back is for him not to lie to me. For him to pull his weight in the house. For him to quite living one foot in, one foot out. For him to start working on ignoring those negative voices that say he is broken, he is a failure etc. I am tired of living on the eggshells he has carpeted my life with because of his threats of abandoning me at the slightest moment of inconvinience to him.
He says he has the conclusion it wont work between us (of course not, I am the only one doing the work and maintaining the relationship). He wants to leave, and I am going to let him. He can walk out at any time - though I appreciate him staying for Winston - who doesnt deserve to wonder where he is in his final days. But he is an adult man, and has the right to determine his own path. He is a big boy, so he can go for it. Like you - I dont want him here against his will. The door here is wide open for him to walk right through.
We have a potential of an amazing future, but he either has blinders on - put there by the very people who poisoned him when he was young, or he really just doesnt want to be with me and is making every excuse to get out and attempt to not look like a jerk. Or maybe its a bit of both. I can work with the first thing, but not with the second.
Yep....You Can't Do Much If Another Person Refuses
Submitted by kellyj on
I am very concerned about you now Stacey. In context to everything I've been doing and saying here....I never once let out situation get to a place that didn't feel right to me. In contrast to your situation.....I didn't let things go even if I wasn't saying anything. I was literally...trying to deal with a current situation the whole time and not letting it go. I had to let go of some thins to release my own blocks or attitudes only because I was presented with an unresolved "situation".....less to do with my own unresolved anger or my past.
Dealing with the current....not trying to undo years of turmoil that had been swept under the rug. In context to what you are saying on your behalf.....this was almost next to impossible for me to deal with...but letting it go and sweeping it under the rug was an option I was not willing to choose.
I can actually empathize with the feelings and distraught you must be feeling right now....is it so disparaging and depressing and it can make you lose hope for yourself.
Since I did this thing with my wife from the get go each time....(saying leave if you want...I'm not going to stop you) by giving her permission to leave...and her seeing I was not going to accept her part that was bad and would rather be without her is she didn't come to terms with it....was the best thing I could have done and then not react to her any differently than I would otherwise. Putting the ball back in her court and making her think about it.....proved to be a very good way of keeping things current and not letting them slip too far into the past in order to correct it......as we go. If we couldn't negotiate as "we go"....then I needed to keep reminding her...."why she was here with me" in our current situation.
I amy not have said that before in so many words....but it is what I was doing this whole time together.
J
Thanks for the concern J.
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Thanks for the concern J. its ok, I will be OK. Really - I am extremely strong, stronger than I look and definately stronger than I sound. ;-)
I am a nurturer by nature. I dont like to give up. I rescue hospice dogs and dogs that no one wants because of their disabilities and illnesses. I know they are worth it when no one else sees it. Its very hard, but its is by far the most rewarding thing I do. I cherish every moment with each of them, and i remember them - they DID exist. I tell you this because this is who I am - and why I have not given up on my H. When we got together, I could see the sadness and loneliness in his eyes. I could see something haunting him - none of us knew what at the time. His mother suspected, but he never aknowledged and I dont think he remembered even the things that happened to him. Maybe I should have run away as soon as he started treating me badly - probably I should have. But In addition to seeing that sadness and loneliness - I saw the friend i remembered. I saw the kindness and gentleness in him. I saw the brilliance of his mind, the quickness of his mind. I saw the love he has for his daughter. I saw the "hidden" parts of him because during his hyper focus mode, that part of him slipped out. And it has come out again at other times. When he first remembered things, and decided that he wasnt going to let the monsters define his life - he decided to go the physical route, and concentrate on improving his diet and making sure his nutrition was solid. He started going to cross fit and was able to really burn up alot of anger through that (god that was the best thing for him!!!). He became more relaxed. He smiled all the time, it was so clear how great he felt. You could see a VERY clear difference in his face. He worked hard for that. He worked hard for that win, for that peace. And he was beating back the demons, and the real him was able to come back out. The ADHD is only one of the problems he faces... but the ADHD tendencies seriously undercut his ability to fight the other demons. Those tendencies knock his legs out from under him. They take away the strength that he has to tell those monsters in his head NO MORE. He crashed suddenly and with out warning one day. I saw it in his face. He had remembered something else but didnt want to admit it or face it. And from then on - he didnt care anymore about what he ate, he stopped going to cross fit, and he didnt even bother going to his fighting practice or anything. It was heartbreaking and nothing I could do could help him - because he was broken (according to the monsters in his head) and he left me for the first time. I begged him not to go, but I didnt stop him or threaten him. I did tell him that I needed to react in certain ways - no contact except through the therapist unless it involved the dogs etc. That was for my OWN wellbeing - not a control or punshiment on him. He did come back though. He wanted to face the monsters again and get rid of them once and for all.
And when the real work was put in front of him - he quit again. It was too hard, and he didnt want to face it anymore. He did things on the surface, he went to the T with me and on his own. But it came down to the T saying that she could only help him so much if he didnt do the work. I did. I did everything the T asked me to do. I put aside my needs, and worked on my own issues. I focussed on getting my anger in control and I dove into understanding more about CSA survival, confirmed ADHD, and suspected deep and serious depression.
He left again shortly after the holidays, after meeting my family and probably seeing just how sick my mother was and that it was her last Christmas (she had cancer). He had already started to retreat into himself, deeper into what looked like a severe depression, stopped going to therapy etc. He was gone this time - and again he said "I dont know if I can ever be a husband" - so I said ok. You have to choose though. I asked him to at least try to get therapy, and that we could have contact and still spend time together and he could just live somewhere else. He came back after 3 months - with a very assured "I know that no matter what _ my life is with you. I have no doubt about it, I know that we have to work on things, and we have to promise eachother that we wont threaten to leave as soon as one of gets mad".
So I accepted that, and I have never threatened it. Not even once. He has though. Since then, we moved to our house in another state, and I had to spend the majority of the year in another state with my mother as her primary caretaker. While I was gone - I think he fell apart. He didnt do any of the things he said he was doing. None of the projects AT ALL got done. And when I came back - I thought I was coming back to my H who said he was working on things, who said he missed me and loved me more than life. That turned into someone who again had retreated, and who didnt want to deal with things anymore. His daughter decided to move back in with HIS mother (a couple of hours away from us). My mother died. I think this in turn sent him off the deep end. He stopped talking to his T (and I dont think he was even being honest with him really). And he started smoking again and lying to me about it.
He lied to my face so many times.... I told him that he is a grown up. he can choose to smoke, but he cannot lie to me and expect me to be OK with it. I told him I understand that lying was a way for him to maintain a sense of control, that need to have a secret (I believe this is related to CSA, not ADHD).
Anyway - I guess I just wanted to tell my story so that you knew that I am not new to all this, and I am not going to collapse and go off the deep end. I will be OK. I am heartbroken. I am angry. And I love someone who clearly doesnt love me "enough". Because the monsters in his head matter more to him. The creatures that haunt him and tell him he is bad, that he is broken - they are the ones he believes and follows. Those people who tried to destroy him and crushed his spirit are the ones who define him now - and he thinks HE is in control.
So yeah - he can leave. He has always been able to. And honestly - I am treating him differently, but not on purpose. I am not buying into the excuses, and I am not going to pretend to be a happy wife, content that her husband is leaving. it would be irrational for anyone to expect someone to be OK in that situation. I dont interact with him because I dont like the contemptuous way he treats me (rolling his eyes, annoyed with me when I try to interact with him). I am polite when he opens conversation with me - but I dont ever initialize it if I dont have to. We still eat together and he still runs the errands and is still working on projects (even though he seems angry about it now that I have told him that I am fine with him leaving). Before the other night, when i told him that he could leave when ever he wanted, and that I knew it and accepted it - and in anger I did say the sooner the better, but that I wanted him to stay until Winston passes - he still told me he loved me when he left and i told him the same. He still gave me a peck on the lips and a hug every night and said he loved me - which I returned. He stopped all of that. I guess he knows that he is free to go and he doesnt have to pretend anymore.
I wish I could save this. I wish I could tell him NO DONT GO. But really- I dont want this anymore. I want a husband who cares about me, who isnt going to threaten me and control me by saying he might leave if he is in a bad mood. I want more out of life than to live on eggshells. If he gave me that - I would want him to stay. I would continue to support his efforts to get help in his own time. I would continue to be by his side as he fought his monsters, sword in hand ready to step in as soon as he gives me the OK. Its his fight, and I would not dare step in unless he asked me to. But I sure will be there with an extra sheild if he needs it, i will arm him and equip him and cheer him on as he fights back the monsters.
But he sees me as the monster. And that is what has changed. he is just open about it now that I am open about my acceptance of him leaving. How else should I be? How else COULD I be?
Gave it what you had
Submitted by Toddschubert@gm... on
you had obviously reached the ponr (point of no return)
I could tell by your anger in your responses to my post which for, I blame you not.
Hopefully you can start anew. Take what you have learned and maybe, just maybe at some point when you are ready you can live the life you want. For me , if indeed my situation is over, I'd kind of like to help people but that's my ADHD quality talking. You being the spouse I can't speak for.
However, your comments have educated me no mater how frustrating or hostile they sounded. I knew you were hurting.
Live my friend.....live
Thanks Crayon,
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Thanks Crayon,
yeah - I really did try not to project my anger. :-) But i guess it didnt come across that way. I think alot of it was desperation to YOU to not make the mistakes my H was and is making. I was hoping that you could see from my perspective, and get a better handle of what your wife's perspective *could* be. I am a very open, accepting, if something is broke, we can fix it kind of person. I take my commitments and promises VERY seriously. When I made my wedding vows - I meant them very very much, to my core. It goes against my very being to walk away from my marriage but I know that there is only suffering and pain if I dont. Right now, it hurts, but pain is just weakness leaving the body.
I definintely am already starting to live my life the way I want. I eat WHAT i want when I want, and I have taken charge of my health. I put my focus onto my little dog, and when he is gone, my focus will be finishing my amazing house, spending time with my family (who have been giving me space so that i could deal with all this chaos). Spending time with friends new and old, and exploring new things in my life that I didnt think I would ever get to.
Its funny - because while I am hurting really bad, I can sense very much this pain is temporary. I KNOW that in a year, I will be way better off, in a finished home that is clean and filled with peace instead of stress from walking on eggshells thinking the man I love and count on is half out the door at all times. Maybe there will be someone new - I dont know. I already have dates to the opera when the season kicks in this fall. (male and female - nothing romantic here LOL) I already have people who want to camp with me and spend time with me at the medieval events I love to go to. I have a fantastic support system. But the best thing I have going for me is me. I know the depths of my capacity for love and caring. I know that my spiritual and emotional bones are made of titanium. He can strip away the flesh and hurt me - but he cannot break me. And I know that now. And like GiJoe said - "knowing is half the battle" LOL.
I have already begun the process of letting go - have been for a while now, and its been a relief to not hang on to someone who doesnt want to hang on to me. My life is mine again, my day is not opened with "I hope I dont do anything to trigger him today", "what can I do to help him today", "what way can I show him love today where he will see it", "what can I do to help encourage him today", "what can I do to assist him in his goals today - like fighting", "should I remind him like he asked me- i will pay for it, but should I keep my word and do it anyway", "will today be the day that he actually leaves because i do something that makes him unhappy".
He is leaving. HE IS LEAVING. And I am OK with it.
Yup. The quote below I call principalling
Submitted by Toddschubert@gm... on
And one of the problems my wife has to....is drawing conclusions immediately
and working from her conclusions. She get's locked in tight to her
conclusions...and she can't see things any other way sometimes. She reacts
and locks into her conclusions and there's just no stopping her sometimes.
My w does this exact thing w many subjects across the board. She develops a "principal" about a topic and sticks to it like flypaper. She sees only a conclusion that fits her predetermined principal or feelings on the mater. "I talk too much so any time I open my mouth it's bad". "I'm a bad driver so if I press the brakes I did it wrong"
on attitude, I'm as guilty as the rest of us. But in correct fashion (nit picking here) you would not say "she has a bad attitude" in relation to her thought on something. It sounds right and everyone will relate but it's a misuse like I was saying. Maybe something like " her position on our situation sucks and she needs to check her attitude"
I obviously am no English major but it's (misunderstanding of the word attitude) just a pet peeve I guess. Sorry.
wooo lawdy... yes. this. SO
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
wooo lawdy... yes. this. SO MUCH.
"And one of the problems my wife has to....is drawing conclusions immediately
and working from her conclusions. She get's locked in tight to her
conclusions...and she can't see things any other way sometimes. She reacts
and locks into her conclusions and there's just no stopping her sometimes."
H to a tee. And no one, no doctor, no therapist, and most especilly ME can say anything different. Because HE knows better, even when he is so off the rocker and off base that up is down and down is up.
Yes...You Are Right Crayon
Submitted by kellyj on
You brought up "principles" just recently and I have actually just now begun to differentiate the two. (only recently) It hasn't taken a lot of time to start seeing the difference either. I don't think you're nit picking here actually...I'm the same as you as well. I'm not one to correct people (almost never there either)...but many of these locks into thinking can be for different reasons and I think the reason is very important to know so you can see it. I see the wording here too....my wife's problem. Yep. A way of seeing this in a position of attitude as well,
This biggest "probelm" is about the thing that is causing it. It can be a problem for you...and it can be another persons personal problem. A personal problem of someone else....can be observed as you see it and said so as such....but the biggest problem is not being able to communicate things openly....which just leave you there hanging. In the moment only I you slip and say things like this to the other person....their feedback will tell you....(as you did here) what "your problem is." Everyone slips and makes mistakes and if you can openly (freely) not make a big deal about it....then you just move on...no big deal.
Not saying so, speaking up or even nit picking as you say....can be good thing as long as it's received correctly. If the other person gets immediately defensive for mentioning it....it will only lead to nothing ever changing and the feedback you get tells you nothing of what you did or any mistakes you've made.
If the worst possible thing is saying you're wrong, seeing you're wrong or admitting you're wrong or otherwise...then from that place as seen by others....the only feedback they get won't tell them much of anything. It certainly won't tell you what your problem is if you have one? What you'll do in that case...is see them as the problem or say it's their problem cognitively knowing that this is not true.
I know it's not my wife's problem and I don't see it that way and I don't say it that way to her. But saying it or phrasing it as not being her personal problem and my personal problem is having to deal with hers.....is the thing that doesn't get said or spoken even if it's correct.
Nit picking all the time or correcting people is a bad habit and one I don't have (openly to others or my wife). Thinking of it as a problem but knowing what the problem is....can show it self in that way as we all do,,,,doubly for myself at times.
As I'm saying this It shouldn't be a big deal and it shouldn't be a problem in the first place right? You'd think? Should have,,could have,, would have...... just be mentioning it and keep moving which mostly I do so why not her?
But if mentioning it becomes the problem...and only causes anger and shutting down and locking in but not being able to verbalize why this bothers you....nothing comes of it. And it tells others nothing.
As I see things in my wife more and more....it leaves me no choice than to try to figure out what's on her mind since she can't say so sometimes. If I ask...it's a problem. If I do nothing...I'm accused and not knowing why? If stop her and tell her what she doing (not just correcting but openly saying.. "I'm having a problem understanding what you're saying...can you say it again differently so I can understand.?"....that's just being negative as she says it back to me. "Here we go...more negative shit"
This change that has happened is a result of mirroring for the both of us. Before you know it...you are repeating back the same thing you hear being said about you even if you weren't the one saying it or it was you who was like this to begin with.
Since things have taken a paradigm shift for my wife on her end...and I have changed my attitude with her...she has said to me only in the last few days....of things that she has finally come to in her thinking and has admitted some things to me.
One of them....came directly from her assignment from our therapist. I haven't asked her but she finally told me.
1 Stop saying negative things. ( that was her personal problem not so much mine. My T would have said so and told me straight up if it was on my end. That as he would say it...is not my personal issue so much )
2 Stop being resentful. That was the BIG ONE. She couldn't say "I'm resentful" or couldn't even say what she was resentful about? I'm not she sure she still knows exactly what she's resentful about specifically since I've tried to talk openly about anything she wants to talk about and nothing is off the table with me....but she knows how it comes back to her from me....by simply following his advise.
I think...without reading too much into this....even though she knows about my ADHD and I have told her everything I know ahead of time and keeping her up to date...the words....."fairness" have emerged and that really gets right into what you are saying. Principle and "fairness" are something she's having to come to terms with.
I told her one time a long time ago...that "you can't have everything your way or the way you want it. Didn't you learn that at as child in school and at home?"
She looked at me with that "deer in the headlights look" which kind of told me that maybe she didn't or has come to terms with this herself.
There is nothing "fair" about ADHD for those of us who have it. Life isn't fair....and neither is ADHD. I've come to terms with this and I have no problem with it. If this is my wife's personal problem...then so be it. It tells me what the problem is?
It's been about a week of changing my perceptions about my wife in terms of knowing what I'm seeing. It will take longer than that to get the rest of me caught up from where I was before. That's happening so fast...that it won't take long on my end. The benefits of knowing what you're seeing...and having dealt with things yourself ahead of time. You can know what you know...until you know it right? lol
I'm a lot more at ease and forgiving and can have a lot more compassion and empathy for my wife because it now. There was a problem as I saw it...and I could see it clearly as a problem for me only....not knowing what I didn't know before....and the attitude that came along with it. That came from the feedback I was getting...which was not being understood on my end and why?
The WHAT took care of that...all by itself. The devil is in the details...but you need to know who the devil is? I can't know unless my wife tells me....and she wasn't telling me...because she didn't know either. All I got was negativity, defense and flack as feedback to anything I was doing. It told me nothing...and I had nothing to go on.
I do understand this.....and can be a lot more understanding know because of it. All from knowing who the devil is....and who was the problem.
But as far a those principles are concerned....those are big ones for my wife too. I do know where many of those come from now....and those came from her teacher ie: her mother. Those family "rules" have actually become my wife's principles. They aren't principles as you would understand what a principle is....they rules and they are not to be broken...and that's that.
As my wife see's me and what I do sometimes.....I'm breaking the rules and it's not fair.
This just came out as of this week....but that is really my wife's problem not mine. lol I joking here just to be factious. It is a problem for both of us...but I think this tells me what to look for to be more understanding as well.
Of course...in a perfect world....if she had said "you know....in our home. It was a violation of the "house rules" to do some of the things I see you do....and it really bothers me when you do it." That's would have been an easy conversation to have and talk about....only if." Could have.....should have....would have.....
"Did you parents let you put your feet up on the coffee table. Where did you grow up...in a barn?"
Yes lol Hard to come back on that one...if it were mentioned. LOL
J
Funny thing about making
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Funny thing about making house rules, and agreements.... My husband thinks that they are only binding when he "feels" like they should be. It doesnt matter the hurt and pain he causes me, or the frustration and extra work and stress that falls in my shoulders. Its all about how he "feels" at the moment.
What a terrible way to live... I cannot imagine the chaos that would bring, to have no boundries and to have no solid foundation of what is OK and what isnt. I cannot fathom the idea of living just on the whim of what I am feeling at the moment. God knows I would have NEVER accomplished anything in life. You get nothing with that way of living, no wins because to win/succeed at ANYTHING you have to push through the hard times, not just give up at the first hint or even the 100th hint of trouble. Its what separates the boys from the men figuratively speaking. He makes promises and agreements and has NO problem breaking them, because while he might have been sincere when he made them, he isnt in the mood to keep his word. And he also has no problem lying to my face about those broken promises too. To me- that is a serious character flaw. I believe that your word is your honor. And you KEEP your word - even when you are in secret. That is when it counts most. The times I have broken my word it devastated me, and I felt terrible. I cant imagine thinking that it would be ok. I suppose that would be a principle for me?
I dont think my H had a good foundation in childhood to have a strong adult life. He was both abused horrifically by some of the family and spoiled simultaneously from other part of the family. Part of me thinks that the people who raised him knew what was going on and showered him with gifts and toys and everything he wanted WHEN he wanted it. I dont know if he got the message that he got that stuff because of what was happening and it has flavored his expectations in adult life. He doesnt share anything with me.
One thing is right from both J and Crayon - you absolutely cannot make a marriage work when only 1 person is doing the work. H made up his mind long time ago that it wont work, and he just lived that in his head. He convinced himself of that and from then on - he had an excuse to not do the hard work of recovery and symptom management. So of course, I get more and more bogged down, more and more frustrated with him saying he is "trying" and saying he is going to do the work - and then DOESNT. Then turns around and tells me things just arent working out - WELL NO SHIT SHERLOCK - YOU ARENT DOING YOUR FUCKING PART.
Its a cycle. I think he thought he could just - by a miracle - THINK about his issues and that would translate into healing and management. There have actually been times when he has had whole conversations with me IN HIS HEAD.... and he never even opened his mouth. Its really crazy... I cannot fight that. He has convinced himself the world is flat - and no amount of science and proof will tell him otherwise, and the journey to see for himself is too hard and he is flat out too scared to see if he is right.
He is leaving, and I am OK with it. he is leaving and I am OK with it. I wish it wasnt the case, this isnt the end I thought we would have. But it is what it is, and I deserve someone who has the principle of his own word, and the ability to comprehend what promises and commitments are. I deserve someone who WANT to be with me and who actually SEES me. I want a man who has the honor and character to at least do what he says he will do. I dont want to be with someone who gets a papercut and proclaims defeat and runs from the fight. I want a man who has the strength of character to pick up his sword and fight through life's monsters WITH me, so that we can live together in the joy and peace that comes after the monsters are gone.
Can you imagine the Olympians ever getting to be an Olympian if they lived by their whims? Court TV and talkshows are ALL full of the people who have no self control, and base all their decisions on those fleeting "feelings" of the moment.
You Mentioned the Oympics... Stacey?
Submitted by kellyj on
This one's for you. Believe in yourself. That's what's missing with your H I think. It doesn't mean you always have to be nice about it especially when you know you're in the right. What ever rabbit hole or roller coaster your H is on or going down....doesn't mean you have to go with him. He's a big boy you know? If you stay on course yourself and don't let him effect you even if he's cheating or not doing the right thing doesn't mean you have to either but.....being NICE about it isn't always the best motivation for yourself. Within reason of course.
Who knows...he just may follow you instead if your heading in the right direction.
https://youtu.be/Q8Ee5DJQT_E
HA! Love it. Thats right -
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
HA! Love it. Thats right - i am going to win the gold and I am going to do it clean. Yep, he is a big boy. He is writing his own story, he just doesnt know it yet. I will stand fast, hold my ground and continue to put one foot in front of the other - FOR MYSELF.
And you hit the nail on the head about my H. He has no faith or belief in himself. I cannot have it for him. I did have faith in him, and I did believe in him - but it was misplaced and it was squandered. I dont anymore. I only can watch his actions and go from those. Yesterday he got on the elliptical, yesterday he made a choice to better himself. yesterday he worked hard. Yesterday he chose to drinnk some water. Will he today or is it already to hard? He has what it takes - he has proven it. But does he have the willpower and belief in himself that he can do it again?
Bettering yourself is a process, its not one day of effort and a week of slacking. Its all in, every day - never let the monsters get ground on you. Its REALLY HARD at first, but you get stronger and go further every time. I started doing 3 minutes on the ellitical over a month ago every day. 3 minutes is all I could do before I wanted to cry from the pain it caused my back. Now - I can do 20 minutes with out stopping and hit a distance of over a mile. THIS IS HUGE FOR ME. This is me fighting - through the pain, sometimes with tears, and always with a fight in my very soul that I take that next step do the next minute. Its not easy - but its WORTH IT. Now I can do 3 minutes at top speed and not even break a sweat. THATS what that work has bought me. In fact, I can do 10 minutes and not even be hurting yet. Soon - my 20 minutes will be easy. Thats how it works. EVERY DAY I refuse to give up to the monsters in me that say I am ugly, fat, messedup, unlovable.
Today I have an upset stomach - but i still did my 20 minutes on my elliptical. It hurt, and I had to stop for breaks - which I dont normally have to do. But I didnt get off, and I comlpeted it. I FINISHED CLEAN ;-). I wont let him affect me. He has no power over me anymore. I am rising, no matter what his choices are. no matter what his fears are - i will not let HIS monsters destroy me like they have destroyed him.
On The Same Page Stacey
Submitted by kellyj on
My personal goals (if you can call them that ) have been somewhat...directed by my wife even though it wasn't my wife doing it....I letting her do it and following her down her rabbit holes and chasing after her thinking....this is what she wants from me?
Thinking in terms of ADHD and being near sighted? Following a near sighted person may not be the best advise....know what I mean? lol (speaking about myself here too of course )
My arm is still healing (shoulder and arm actually...I think I dislocated it? ) and I can't do much in the way of the things I really need to be doing since that's what got me here in the first place. Chasing after what she wanted thinking it would make it Okay? It won't be Okay unless I do it a pace and within my means. The time clock is her's in other words...not mine. I've had that all screwed up.
Yesterday...I just took the day off. (a rarity for me lol )
Today....I'm starting a new program that will get me there just the same...but doing it better. As long as I don't make any new challenges (and messes...both figuratively and logistically ) and stay on course...I'll be getting a gold medal too. The one I give to myself!!! LOL
Actually...things have shifted and DW ( ha! ) and I are in a new place now. From scratch. I've started to be more proactive in communicating with her and appeasing her that way.and anticipating what I already know she wants and doing it before she can remind or insist or demand or nag. But she doesn't get to determine exactly what that is or the way I do it...but by fitting what she wants in there somewhere....I'm doing the compromising, negotiation and by passing the "talks" entirely. As long I get something in there for her...even if it's not what I would normally do....it is that gesture so to speak but I'm doing something with "hard evidence" to back it up with.
She is not going to see the path to get there and then the results.... so I have to throw her a bone so she isn't feeling like it's "not fair" and "I always have to wait.". Her two big issues that are leaking in to her narrative.
Even though I've done a ton of things she wants already....she can't see the finish line and can only see what hasn't been done.(what's wrong) No fighting with her on this anymore.
This is perhaps....less fair to me....but I get to decide how unfair I can live with and make that choice for her...she doesn't get to choose....how unfair it will be for me. That's the deal.
In the long run...it will end up being the same thing anywat but the way she would go about it....it would be doing what she wants first and what I want second...and that would be (somehow?????) more fair? LOL
Near sighted for sure!!! LOL It goes with the territory I guess?
Like I said....."nice shoot'in solider, but two can play at that game." Right? ha!
J
I really wish my H would have
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
I really wish my H would have been proactive about communicating with me - but he rarely if EVER just wants to have conversation with me. I think that it would have certainly helped me deal with things and it would have made me feel more valuable. he talks to his mom (which is VERY GOOD) but he doesnt talk to me? (Very BAD). But its ok, because its either he is giving in to the monsters, or he is just saying anything he can to get out of the relationship hoping he wont be the "jerk". he once told me how he gaslighted his old fiance and just treated her badly until she left. I asked hiim if he was doing that to me (because its how he acted toward me). he said no, of course not. That was our second weekend together. Part of me really does believe he has just been using me, playing me like a fool. Its very hard to push those feelings down - and honestly not sure if I should.
It would be extraordinarily cruel of someone to do this. But its not out of realm of possibliliy. Not if his "true truested friends" are to be believed. The ones he never ever confronts when told things that are said about him. The ones he runs to when he leaves our home.
I feel like I am loosing my mind sometimes. Its very hard to push down those feelings, because I guess in a way I really hope that I am not as stupid as I would have to be to have believed him all these years and put up with all that I have... and lost... I have lost more than anyone can imagine.
Edited to add - I am not saying I do not believe his claims of CSA - I KNOW those things happened to him, and I know he struggles and suffers the consiquence of what those people - those monsters did to him and his sister. I know that he tries every day just to bury it instead of dealing with it. I am just saying that I dont know if I believe THAT is why he has to leave our marriage as he claims. I dont know if I believe that he really thinks he is broken or if he just wants out to persue other things he cares more about like a specific video game I have no tolorance for... or other women...etc.
Same thing here. My husband
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Same thing here. My husband also, wanted to have one foot out the door, and what he had at home was not what he wanted. Its been very hurtful, and Im not the person I used to be. He doesnt like that, but HE helped me become this way. No, its not all his fault, but the marriage sure was LOPSIDED.
I saw a poster the other day.
"A coward is a man who awakens a woman's love, with NO intention of actually LOVING her." It fits in my case.
Dede
Dede - woooboy.... that quote
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Dede - woooboy.... that quote sure hits home to me.
I am working hard building up my walls. But it isnt easy- especially seeing him put in a new effort onto himself.
There are days I wish I was someone else.