As the significant other of a man with ADD and Depression, I am always trying to figure out what might be done to modify the explosiveness of the relationship.
I have the same problems many have...which include all the requisite accusations: "I wouldn't be angry if you didn't____________"; "The reason I can't get anything done is because you __________"; "If you would just give me a chance I could accomplish _____________";..... on and on and on... In reading this forum we all seem to share the same life.
Then there is the anger. The bullying behavior that is exhibited predictably at the moment he realizes he has forgotten something again, didn't finish something again, didn't even remember whatever, again. At that moment seemingly another whole person emerges that is the "boss"; "in control"; "you listen to me, I'll do the talking";...... that person is aggressive, angry, confrontational, know-it-all, pompous A$$ ..... and the whole thing is repeated in the exact same way, each and every time.
Soooo... I watch and I try to figure out how being unsuccessful in life leads to being "in control" of the conversation that is focused on the lack of success. This is in opposition to what I feel could be a more normal response that would sound something like, I'm not able to remember or complete daily living tasks, perhaps rather than be angry and bossy, maybe I should review what goes wrong all the time and figure out how to prevent it in the future."
That sort of dialogue NEVER happens.
This observation makes me feel there is some behind the scenes profit in presenting anger rather than solutions. Perhaps the profit is the intense adrenaline production all that anger and pontification creates. Adrenaline may be like amphetamine which, in someone with ADD, should be soothing. Just maybe, the anger and aggression actually makes the chemistry feel better. I think we both know it does not make the relationship feel better, but the chemistry might be like a junkie getting a fix.
Maybe the unrealized value of that far supersedes the detriment of the relationship. Maybe thats why it is so hard for them to stop that angry behavior. Maybe thats why they do it several times a day, like a boost to the "feel good" chemistry they need.
Then there's the posturing, controlling, know-it-all as a stand alone. Maybe this is how they regain a sense of controlling their environment. This behavior may feel like "instant control"; where the understanding of what they've not accomplished feels like being completely out of control. Maybe this is a twisted survival mechanism. Destructive, yes. However, I don"t think ADD has an understanding of how what they do (or don't do) is destructive.
I honestly don't think they spend much time thinking about consequence at all.
So.. I've rambled a bit maybe. A recapitulation might be:
- ADD might behave "for the moment"
- Anger creates favorable chemistry "for the moment"
- Controlling, know-it-all behavior creates a sense of being in control of *something*:
- Consequence is a by-product of specific focused thought which isn't part of any moment during the day
"You change for two reasons: You either learn enough that you want to..... Or you've been hurt enough that you have to"
Thank you for explaining this
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Thank you for explaining this theory so well. I agree that this might be what's going on with some people with ADHD (and other disorders).
Two Bits From the ADHD Side
Submitted by kellyj on
I think you might be on to something Soft_Owl. I'm a man with ADHD, who does not have the explosive daily anger but....I have reached that point of no return when my emotional lability kicks in. For me...this is a more rare occurrence but none the less....it happens, and has happened though out my life at different times.
I can only speak for myself, but I have recently witnessed this many times with my wife who also has ADHD (unconfirmed).
In the moment, when I hit my threshold limit of self control and cannot regain the control I had before of my anger....I feel I regress to a stage of emotionality as if I were a small child of about 3 to 5 years of age under normal circumstances. I even have flashes of times in my distant past when I was in that state again as if it were happening now.....reliving a trauma or event that happened to me...where I was without any ability to control the circumstances that were happening to me.....returning to the place of being a victim or circumstance or the perpetrator who was imposing themselves onto at the time...which was usually an authority figure like my parents. In my case....usually my father not my mother.
There were times I could recall feeling that way with my mother....when she would not listen to me and continued on past the point that I needed her to stop.....and give me some air to breathe. In either case....I felt like I was being closed in on by someone who was angry with me (for what ever reason? ) and they just wouldn't stop. That's all I wanted them to do.....just stop....so I could regain my composure again. Mostly....what I ultimately wanted ...was for them not to be angry. That's all I cared about in the moment. Stop being angry with me. Nothing else mattered....what they said....what I did wrong....nothing. All I could see, hear or do....was in an effort to make the anger.....go away....coming from the other person.
I would literally...say, do, scream, yell, or do anything...ANYTHING....to make that person STOP.....being angry. Nothing was more important. Nothing they said mattered in fact....once I hit that point.....I was not listening to a word they said. Nothing goes in.....and nothing comes out unless it's something....to stop the other person from being angry anymore.
Other peoples anger and disappointment (as in being shamed ) being expressed to me in any way.....was the trigger for this and I reacted violently in a very hostile way.....until they stopped. If they didn't stop....my effort's would ramp up even more. The more they pushed....the bigger, louder and more aggressive I became.
The goal.....in every time this happened.....was to make them STOP.
So basically....this is the point of no return when I hit my threshold of being able to control my temper or anger.
Another interesting thing when this happen(ed/s)...is the totally clarity of mind that occurs. Without having to think about being courteous, kind, thoughtful or caring in any way shape or form ....and in terms of worrying about whether this behavior was hurtful or causing harm to the other person....that went straight out the window. You become a raging asshole super Narcisist who's only goals are self serving to you....and if the goal is to make the other person STOP.....in the moment....there nothing you do is off limits in order to do this. Aside from killing or hitting or overtly trying to physically hurt the other person that way. The goal is not to harm the person physically....the goal is just to make them STOP being angry with you or shaming you in some way....that 's it. And to do this....you go right to the juggler vein with extreme prejudice with no holds barred....by any means possible...until they Stop.
For me at least....this was the way it worked. For the most part....I stopped doing this by the time I was 10 or so (about 3rd or 4th grade) on any regular basis. After that...it would show up on occasion only in certain times of extreme stress or if I was being threatened physically which may have only been a few times until I was older and in my teens and then it appeared to disappear.
But the later....in my early twenties...it reappeared again when I was in my first long term relationships with the women that became girl friends. This only appeared a few times in each case...but it was always for the same reason. By the times I got married for the first time...it did not reappear again until my marriage began to fall apart and I felt out of control of the situation with my ex partners coming to me with shame and anger again. Shaming and anger from my partners was always the case or it would never appear.
A very long time passed before this ever re-emerged again. Even in my marriage of 12 years...did this even show itself possibly a few times ever. Usually...when I had been drinking....but not any other time.
It again....had been years before I saw this again...but in terms of the reasons why....that never changed.
And until just a few years ago with my wife now....it re-emerged once again but this time....I was paying attention to it....and realized in the moment.....that I had regressed to that stage of being like a small child again and even caught those glimpses of my childhood moments while it was happening in my conscious awareness of it.
It took....being stressed out severely....having a huge amount of anxiety over a number of things happening to me all at once....and feeling out of control for this to emerge. For me...it took all those things happening in the perfect storm for this to reappear once again which made me stop immediately and feel a need to figure this out once and for all.
I can't speak for anyone else with ADHD so I can only give you my own history and the why this is for me. In the last decade ...I can count the number of times I've reached this extreme point on both hands but saying.....once I hit that magic line of no return...all bets are off.
As I'm saying this.....this is the explosive...out of control type of over reaction that takes place. On a much lessor ...more in control version of this....I can still get extremely angry in a hostile way....but in those instances...I'm in control of my faculties and there are no distortions involved like when I go past the magic point of no return.
In those moments...I know what I'm doing and saying however...not that this is good, and not saying there isn't a better way to deal with my anger. The difference there...is this is not explosive and instantly reactive. In those moments...what I'm saying is directly related to the person and I speaking to them rationally....but not very nice about it either. I might say a number of things I don't really truly believe about the person...but more in terms of biting sarcasm, and going for the juggler in a different way where the things I might say are directed at the other person in a personal attack done in a more controlled way knowing cognitively...knowing what I'm doing and usually connected tat someone who has actually offended me or disrespected me in some obvious way that in my opinion at the time...was done to be hurtful not just because they were shaming me or just angry with me. As said.....a more normal response that an on looker might see the reason why I was angry...but also saying...done in a pretty direct way..,..right for the juggler again.
No excusing this on my end as bad behavior and expressing anger poorly. But making a very clear distinction between these two types of responses.
One is a response...done poorly and hurtfully. This isn't raging, going berserk (tantrum) or out of control..but one might view as to be expected somewhat...due to circumstances what ever they may be? A direct connection can be made by anyone seeing this as an observer and understand it....even if not seen as acceptable. This one for me contains the same components however as the other one in that..caring about the other person feelings goes completely out the window.
The other one...and the one you are talking about.... is reactive..... explosive..... out of control..... outburts....that appear like raging and going berzerk and a complete temper tantrum.... that are completely irrational and unexpected and seemingly out of no where which takes you aback and and takes you by surprise. Usually....not connected in any rational way...to anything you did or can understand that you did....which would warrant such an extreme over-reaction.
What I discovered only recently was in that my wife has these out of control outburst and does has these moments with me.....I realized that it took that...and only that....and only after one too many of these...did my own explosive reactive episodes re-emerge again after so many years of dormancy. It didn't take very long to stop these once I was so shocked at myself for this happening again and feeling so ashamed for doing it...that I was able to start to recognize the signals and stop them before they actually could get that far.
The process of learning how to control this.....only took 6 months with only a couple more episodes to control it...aside from it happening again more recently for a brief moment and I was still able to regain composure even then. What was most telling about this starting to come out and my ability to stop even once it began...came from my own awareness of it....and understanding it terms of what was actually happening to me. Just that alone....gave me the control I needed to arrest it and not do it again despite...being confronted with someone doing this with me at the same time.
For the rest of what you speculated about being addicted to it and creating favorable chemistry...I can't speak to that based on the history and the length of time it's been since I was doing that on any regular basis in my childhood and cannot recall enough awareness or memory of those moments to even know I was doing it half the time back then. But I wouldn't doubt it a bit from what I know...and I would give some credence to it myself anyway and think this might be the cause or part of it...for someone doing it on a regular daily basis like you said.
J
Thank You for Your Honesty & Integrity, JJ
Submitted by shine1 on
I only pray and wish that my husband would come to and express such awareness, J. We've been married 11 yrs. now and he was diagnosed 4 yrs. ago. Although on Atterall meds., I've asked him to consider some "emotional companion" drugs I read about in ADD Magazine that can help him gain and maintain better emotional control, but he hasn't brought it up to his doctor and gets angry when I ask, so I stopped long ago.
Last night we were watching the news, having a couple of drinks, and got into a calm, actual insightful, discussion (at least I thought) about the difference between the terms "policy" vs "position" based on what a politician was saying. When I said the politician wasn't talking about policy but his position on the topic, my husband's tone became very pompous. He started repeating what he'd said and when I still didn't agree, then said he'd "explain"--repeating the same thing. Just then, the politician came back on tv and actually said "Well, my stance and position on this..." and when I pointed that out, my husband ignored it and commenced to repeating his own stance again, getting louder!
I told him that I understood what he'd been saying all along, I knew the difference in terms and also have written "policy" (to which he rolled his eyes out loud), but I also didn't agree and getting louder wasn't going to change that so we needed to stop....We needed to just stop because it wasn't that important. He replied with cold sarcasm: "I don't think you do understand...And you really need to take a breath, you know." I just looked at him and said, "We need to just stop." I went to the kitchen and when I came back he started to explain the terms again as if I was stupid and what even present throughout the entire scene! "Stop," I said firmly. "Just please stop." He looked at me and said "Well, I don't know what to do!" And I repeated, "I've already said, 'Stop'....That's what we can do and move on." He got explosive: "Sure! Let's do that!" and grabbed his stuff and stomped out of the room, saying he was only getting yelled at and shouted down.
I had done neither, but it's useless to defend his perception. Still talking and explaining from another room, I said "Why do you have to keep talking about this?!" And he sarcastically responded: "Why do you?" When I said "I'm the one asking to stop." He slammed his office door. 3 hours later he came to bed. I was watching tv, he fell alseep and began snoring. I gently nudged him and his "yesss" sounded like he was waiting for bear. I quietly said "You're snoring and I can't hear the tv." This isn't usually a problem, but the next minute I knew he'd violently flung the covers, grabbed his stuff, and stomped off to his office again! It was like this whirlwind of anger and drained me to no end. He stayed up all night drinking and on Facebook, as usual, because this is what he typically does.
He was mad because he wanted to continue fighting--it is truly like a stimulus drug and he can quickly escalate into very much a vindictive, tit-for-tat person when he doesn't get his way. This behavior is also pretty exclusive to me. I think that's because even in his insecurity, I'm "safe" because I'm still here and in the marriage. I've seen or he's told me what other people say or do and I've marveled that he shrugs it off! However, today, I slept all day and when I got up he acted as if nothing happened--no apology--but has been quiet around me. He knows he overreacted but pride is high on his radar.
JJ, your post is so profound to me because you have differentiated the 2 anger responses, without excuses, I've experienced throughout my marriage and the feelings I've observed and believe are behind them for my husband. It's not only that he doesn't want me angry at him but he also doesn't want to be disagreed with or take onus for his actions. He feels out of control, then scared of that, and then turns it to anger towards the very person (me) he wants to keep with no sense or care of the consequences or what his behavior is jeopardizing. I am going to keep this post as a reminder of hope towards him gaining such awareness, but also as a reminder for myself that I haven't been crazy all these years about his behavior and need to learn how to express and control his anger with me as he does with everyone else in our lives. Thank you.
Adrenalin Shine1
Submitted by kellyj on
Thanks for your kind words and appreciation of what I expressed here. It's really a tough one to manage and deal with and it's been a long road in trying to figure this out for myself. I've found the more I understand myself and what is actually happening...in a physical sense....the more I can control it and have more awareness of what's actually a happening with me....not what's happening between my wife and I or anyone else for that matter. Since my wife experiences a similar phenomenon.....I get to watch it play out as me being on the other side of it and there is a physiological chain reaction happening I'm very sure of this now. It's not ALL IN OUR HEADS. LOL
That threshold point of no return is the thing I've really been focusing on and trying to figure out. One time...I asked my therapist about something that happened to me a few years ago that I didn't quite understand but it felt very out of control...yet still in control if that makes sense? He said it was a panic attack....and I went, huh?
That's never happened to me before quite like that? All I could do was to get away as fast I could from the person who was creating this in me since it wasn't my wife...and I was in a public place in a situation where there was no outlet for escape and over reacting was not an option.....I was forced to hold the brakes on as hard as I could and just grin and bear it but it felt like I was going to explode from the inside out. The result was this panic attack that I had. What was interesting...was this was not an unfamiliar feeling for me and I had it before...but not in such a spontaneous way?
I told my therapist..."that was weird....I didn't feel like I was panicking or even out of control (which I wasn't ...no one knew this was happening but me ). I thought when someone gets a panic attack...they just lose it and completely freak out and off the deep end emotionally. I didn't lose control of my emotions or the way I behaved outwardly....but my body was the thing that was out of control and felt like I was losing control of....like something flipped a switch and I had no control of my body anymore?
That's very unusual for me......why didn't I just go off the deep end and freak out (cognitively)?" His reply was..."you were at least...understanding what was happening to you but you still realized you had no control of it."
He was right.....I did recognize what was happening to me...and what was happening was an Adrenalin spike. I use to TRY....to bring this on before a sporting event namely swimming in my youth. I was a sprinter...and in sprinting.....you need that explosive instant reaction to the gun...and go from 0 to 110% on demand in order to be an effective sprinter. It really is an explosion....physiologically...that you artificially induce by bring yourself to that place in your head until your Adrenaline spikes and gets in by getting yourself...."psyched up"...before you race. Once your Adrenaline spikes....you don't feel pain any more and can do amazing things and abuse your body beyond what you could ever imagine possible. It's fight/flight gone into survival mode.
Think of it like you are being chased down by a wild predator animal and running for your life....that would explain it better. Your body give you a shot of Adrenalin that it needs to get you out of harms way and to safety in a situation like this. And even after the threat is gone...your body needs some time for the Adrenaline (and your Adrenal gland ) to come back down again.
I've never hear this said exactly like this....but this is what I believe is happening when I hit that magic line and the switch gets flipped. The switch is Adrenaline...and once you get a shot of that to your system....it's extremely difficult to control in fact....I'd liken it to getting a needle shot in the arm or any kind of drug that just goes straight through your veins, right to your heart...and then away you go.....once the train leaves the station....there's no getting off until that shot of Adrenaline works it's way out of your system and dissipates enough to regain control.
What happened to me in that panic attack moment...was forcing myself to contain this effect and not react....but with no place to go to release it and having to put the brakes on so hard just to contain it....that I felt like I was being separated from my body....like an out of body experience if that makes sense. I realized later.....I had done this countless times in my past....but it had never "just happened spontaneously" like that without having done it with that intention and "psyching myself up" for a race.
My therapist was right....I knew what was going on.....but was freaked out since I wasn't the one who brought myself to that point and something else cause this to happen but was not a life threatening situation? I really believe this is what is happening with your H , my wife and me (or folks with ADHD) hit that magic line and then the switch gets flipped. It's Adrenaline. And the only thing you can do is let it pass and get out of your system before you can regain control. I did my best performances in the past when I could get myself into a state of pure Adrenaline in those sprinting situations. The difference there....by the time you get to the end of the race....you've expended every last drop of energy your body has in it and you are completely spent at the end of the race. In these moments when we over react.....you got all that explosive energy and no where to put it?
That might help you demystify what you are seeing and understand it from that perspective? It may not be any less frightening for you from the effect of this and how your H deals with it....but at least it won't such a frightening thing to you as you observe it knowing that your H is not demon possessed of something? lol
He's not losing his mind....he's just all hopped up on Adrenalin. It might changes at least your perspective or your own relationship you have to these movements if you can see it that way. It's no excuse for him not figuring this out and learning how to control it however.
Best thing you can possibly do...is just not react and let it pass before you approach him but saying....if he in this state and continually amps himself up even further....I would physically remove yourself from his presence and tell him you will talk to him....when he calms down.
I know for myself in the past when I was treated like some kind of two headed monster for over reacting...this only made it worse not better. Acknowledging him as a person who just needs some time to cool down without rejecting him completely will do wonders for reducing this effect and time it takes him to cool down.
I know for me.....if my wife has got me so worked up about something we are talking about....just knowing that we can continue later and still get a chance to talk it through later with a cool head is all I need to hear in that moment to stop this from amping up any more from that point.
The caveat here.... I have to include on my wife account.. when we have topics that consistently cause her to over react.....I have to stop and think...."is this topic really worth it....and then, what's the point?" And if there really is not point in talking about it again....it's easy to let it go and not make a big deal about it and this situations go no where even when she starts to ramp up and I see where this is going.
Let it go,....when ever possible.....that my best advise. The last thing you want....is to get that Adrenalin spike involved?
J
Appreciated JJ
Submitted by shine1 on
I take from your comments and replies to me and others on the forums that having a therapist has helped immensely to bring you through your journey of self-awareness and self-actualization and continues to. Having been on the receiving side from your wife seems to have contributed too. He doesn't get to see the effects of his behavior that clearly as I'm a non-ADHDer. My husband needs a therapist too, but he's too insecure and scared to look at himself realistically. I've been going to who started as our couples counselor, and is now just mine, so I can deal.
Fortunately and unfortunately, I have done as you've suggested to no avail. This statement made me think: "He's not losing his mind....he's just all hopped up on Adrenalin. " My husband clearly never believes he's lost, but that I am and he likes being on that rush--I've seen it in his eyes and he has actually said that it's a switch that he likes. This is not helpful when in the past he's decided to hit doors and walls of our rented apts.--I've actually seen him smile as my startled reaction. However, I'm not concerned with him actually hitting me because he knows--AND I MEAN KNOWS--better!
I suffer from PTSD and he knows this, but his actions convey apathy regardless if he's sorry later. I can leave the room, but he just follows me, badgering, trying to get a rise until I actually do leave the house altogether. Why is that necessary! I plan to keep letting it go, however....until the day I let him go because I think that's the only thing he will truly understand. And by the time that happens, I won't care because the damage has been and I'll be gone. Thanks, JJ.
Psalms 120:6 - My soul has dwelt too long with those who hate peace.
Hello, Soft Owl!
Submitted by GiveMePatience on
Hello, Soft Owl!
I hope that it somehow brings you 'comfort' to know that MANY of us here understand and 'feel your pain'...
PLEASE do not let my comment here 'diminish' ANYTHING that you have written... as I am BY NO MEANS 'claiming' to have a 'simple fix' OR, ANY 'FIX', AT ALL... I do, however, want to share something that has made a bit of a difference with my husband's 'explosive anger and frustration'.
There is a lot of information on the internet recommending a 'high protein diet' for people who have ADHD. HOWEVER... I came across some information that suggested THE EXACT OPPOSITE, a LOW protein diet, for those who have the 'OVER-FOCUSED' (or HYPER-FOCUS) ADHD. I will not 'bore you with the details'... but it has to do with protein 'blocking' the production of serotonin, as well as needing to 'avoid' the amino acid L-tyrosine, which is the building block of dopamine. Anyway, switching to a 'high carb, low protein' diet has made QUITE A DIFFERENCE here with my husband.
I understand that it is a major 'long shot' that any of this information is useful or beneficial to you... but, just in case... ;)
In the meantime, I will be wishing you peace...
To JJ, so much of what you write and share is SO MUCH MORE HELPFUL TO SO MANY MORE OF US THAN YOU COULD EVER POSSIBLY KNOW... Thank you SO very much.
GMP
Thanks GMP
Submitted by kellyj on
It's always nice to hear things like this. It really is motivating to say the least.
I wanted to share something that is just a hypothesis I have in relation to what you were saying about proteins and how they might contribute to some negative side effects related to ADHD.
This has to do with some family history and something that my sister just discovered indirectly due some metabolism issues she was having. They tested her metabolism...and found...that she has an extremely highly efficient metabolism. As the doctor told her....."if you were in the Donner Party.....you would have been one of the last ones to die ...or better,....would have been one of the survivors."
Without getting too deep into this.....the minute she said that it immediately explained a whole lot to me.
Being thin or staying that way....has never been an issue for me. I'm one of THOSE people....that everyone loves to hate since I can eat anything...and am pretty much....a walking garbage disposal but never gain any real preserved weight. This is not something....I have to try or doing anything about to stay this way.
But...as I recall in a lifetime of being me.....I am not food motivated at all and can go for very long periods of time....without having fluctuations in my blood sugar or getting hungry. I've been told...for a guy my size....that I eat like a bird. Putting 2 + 2 together....I think this is exactly why. The same as it is for my other sister....the same as it was for my mother. None us ...were big eaters and I usually...just eat when I'm hungry. I don't graze....nibble....snack or eat in between meals and I can skip meals easily...with seemingly not effect?
People would always say.....well you have to eat....eat something....it's not healthy....it's bad for your blood sugar not to eat!
Well....I can tell you. I know when my blood sugar is low just like anyone else. I know when I'm hungry too...and when I'm not hungry. And mostly....what I normally do is just eat enough to be satisfied...and nothing more because I'm full...and get full easily. I tend to eat small amounts at different times more like 2 times a day..rather than 3. But I can easily eat one time a day only...and feel just fine. What causes me to not feel just fine....is eating to much...that's the only times I don't feel well and my body is telling me something.
This isn't high metabolism.....is extremely efficient metabolism.....big difference that explains this to me well.
I was just thinking about what you said....and another possible reason why people (even wiith ADHD) don;t always fit into nice neat packages due to other things that can change this results if they are not considered as well?
I don't know how this relates????....I'm just saying....I'm unusual in that way and that might be just another reason why something that works for one person....might not work for another who is not like this themselves?
Something to think about? I tend to gravitate naturally to meat and proteins compared to carbs yet....that's never seemed to be a problem? I wonder why that is now? Aso wondering if efficiency in terms of metabolism...has anything to do with this?
J
I thank you for sharing this,
Submitted by GiveMePatience on
I thank you for sharing this, J! I am confident that I can speak for MANY people here in telling you that your insight, wisdom, experience and point-of-view are EXTREMELY beneficial.
All of this is DEFINITELY something to consider and makes a lot of sense. We are all SUCH COMPLEX and WONDERFUL 'beings'... Those WITH ADHD! Those without! ALL OF US! ;)
My husband used to always describe food as "a drug". That always seems SO FOREIGN to me... But, NOW I know that it truly WAS a 'drug' for him... as so many of the foods that he was 'naturally drawn to' INCREASED HIS SEROTONIN levels... and probably made him feel 'more normal', so to speak.
The fact is... the brain is SUCH UNDISCOVERED TERRITORY! It truly is REMARKABLY AMAZING! And, as to your point, there are SO MANY FACTORS that play an 'integral part' of making us all up, as 'individuals'... it seems almost IMPOSSIBLE to really 'pinpoint' WHY what works for one, does not work for another.
Thank you, J, for giving me more to think about! ;)
GMP
Owl, J, interesting things
Submitted by dedelight4 on
This response of anger, which my own ADHD husband usually has, is talked about in some new videos I've been watching. Have you guys ever heard of Peter Gerlach?
J, you've talked about feeling like a small child during certain "responses" to stimuli. This man has explained SO MUCHA of where ALL of our responses come from........being people who are Grown Wounded Children. These videos have beeh extremely revealing in telling how we don't know how to properly respond to things if we were hurt as small children. He isn't one who is pro.....pseudo psychology type of explanations.......but IS very down to earth and has many years of experience in dealing with this. I'd love to hear what you think J.
Owl, J, interesting things
Submitted by dedelight4 on
This response of anger, which my own ADHD husband usually has, is talked about in some new videos I've been watching. Have you guys ever heard of Peter Gerlach?
J, you've talked about feeling like a small child during certain "responses" to stimuli. This man has explained SO MUCHA of where ALL of our responses come from........being people who are Grown Wounded Children. These videos have beeh extremely revealing in telling how we don't know how to properly respond to things if we were hurt as small children. He isn't one who is pro.....pseudo psychology type of explanations.......but IS very down to earth and has many years of experience in dealing with this. I'd love to hear what you think J.
Owl, J, interesting things
Submitted by dedelight4 on
This response of anger, which my own ADHD husband usually has, is talked about in some new videos I've been watching. Have you guys ever heard of Peter Gerlach?
J, you've talked about feeling like a small child during certain "responses" to stimuli. This man has explained SO MUCHA of where ALL of our responses come from........being people who are Grown Wounded Children. These videos have beeh extremely revealing in telling how we don't know how to properly respond to things if we were hurt as small children. He isn't one who is pro.....pseudo psychology type of explanations.......but IS very down to earth and has many years of experience in dealing with this. I'd love to hear what you think J.
WOW Dede....Facinating and Very Accurate
Submitted by kellyj on
I watched the video on childhood trauma....and this was really interesting to see these things in my slef...and also look back at what I did about them....without knowing better?
OMG yes.....it's not really depression....it's grief. I am very familiar with grief. I use to think it was "growing pains". At least that's what I thought as a kid since I heard that term used and figured...this hurts and I'm sad so it much be "growing pains?" I mentioned this in fact....when I first came here and told about when we assigned to read the book "Death and Dying"...Elisabeth Kulber Ross in high school and it seemed....not so vaguely unfamiliar to me since I had gone through that process many many times it was so familiar. You might even say....it was how I taught myself not to be depressed without knowing better? Fascinating?
And yes....the taking care of yourself part and applying that to hygiene and things like brushing your teeth. Again....OMG. Not depression as he said it......grief or grieving.
The last thing he said as speaking to those of us who have experienced this...was about hope for a better life. That was interesting to hear? As if....once you follow these tools...at the end...this was the final goal.
If I remember anything that really stands out or stood out to me when thinking about this. The only way I found past my darkness and despair was hope and optimism for the future. I literally...clung to it and lived on it. It's like your gas tank is empty and running on fumes. Those fumes for me....were hope and optimism. If I didn't have that the whole time....I don't know what I would have done? I might have killed myself honestly? There were times when it was that bad....but that hope and optimism was the only lifeline I had left but it was enough to get me through and out of those moments of despair. Actually...it was the only thing...like I said.
What I'm saying I guess.....is that this was just what I did at a very early age and discovered on my own for sure. No one filled me with a lot of hope at times so I had to find that for myself which I managed to do in the darkest hours always....by hook or by crook....I always found my way by myself without anyone there to help me. Are you kidding....at times....the people there who were available to help...were either too busy with their own lives....or the one who was causing the most damage.
In fact....I do remember those moments....and how I felt and what I thought at the time....(paraphrasing my self talk back then) "no hope here....it's like I'm dying. I need to go find hope and optimism, somewhere else and get away for this. The air is so thick...I can hardly breath...like the oxygen is getting low and it feels stagnant and stale. I need to go outside into the fresh air and out into the world and go find a place that doesn't feel like death to me."
So...as I saw my home and where I spent my time.....hope an optimism....was somewhere else but there. Hope an optimism was in the world outside of my home..so the first chance or opportunity I had to escape...and I escaped as much and as often as possible. I was the first one to leave the house in the morning...and the last one to return at night. Any where was better....than the place where I actually "lived." As it felt like "death" by stagnation and lack of air to breath. It was suffocating and hot...like living inside an oven.
It also explains why I got in trouble a lot. For always being late. I savored every minute I could of clean fresh air and "life"....until I had to return to the oven...and suffocate and gasp for air and stagnate once again.
Hope, optimism, grief and sadness...came with the utter joy of being free each time I escaped...and feeling "alive" and happy each opportunity I could escape from the living Hell it was at times....living in my own family and in my own home. Anything or any place I could go....was better....once I escaped and ran outside into the world to discover everything I would discover each time....until I had to return to slow death, stagnant thick air, and that hot, clammy, sticky feeling like being inside an oven or a dank tropical rain forest with no oxygen it once again. And then....do it all over again. And over...and over.... and over.
I got really practiced at grieving...if you can imagine?
And one more thing I just thought of....about dissociation that is. In those most traumatic moments...I did dissociate and go inward...into myself. I can actually remember doing it...and talking myself out of what just happened or tried to explain it to myself by telling myself..."this doesn't hurt". And I generally speaking...convinced myself of that.
But not really knowing what to call this by any other name.....I became an "escape artist". Not escaping inward into my head...or escaping reality by going that way. I mean....literally.....escaping INTO....reality...and INTO the real world instead. It's was freaking scary sometimes I can tell you...when you are alone in the "real world" and no one is there to back you up. The "real" world...requires...."real" skills to survive. That was my MO when I was a kid....and it's still the same today. That's my pattern at least....not to avoid it....but go head on INTO it and not be afraid. That pattern I started learning....at a very very early age. It is the school of hard knocks but it was better the being "home schooled"....without any doubt in my mind.
I also just realized where my own impatience and "attitude" come from at times when I get the feeling that people are "whining"...or..."complaining" about being a little uncomfortable or when things aren't going their way or the wat they want it to go....that says..."who learned you??? Get over it...and get on the ball. Guite you're whining and take it...."whining" is sooooo embarrassing. I hate whiners and complainers!!!! And "picky people" who are "fussy". I did it...so can you....where does this attitude come from that thinks...you always get what you want? (in my world as it seemed ) Getting what you want...was in fairy tale books not in the real world. Time to cowboy up and not be such a pussy."
That wasn't my parents talking (or what I learned from them) that was me talking to myself back then and learning from that experience ...and my own self taught language I learned from th experience. I can see the good and the bad in there just so you know?
I also just remembered....even though those were not my fathers words in how he approached me. He liked it when I had this attitude and liked it when I would actually say these things out loud. At least....as long as I held that attitude with him or spoke in that way....I was safe and he seemed to approve so that was my way to play the part and stay out of harms way with him. It left him off the hook...he he felt he didn't have to participate himself and figured I was Okay as long as I could still be alright by myself and not need him for anything?
I'm speculating a little their...but I don't think I'm that far off the mark either from everything that seemed to fit into that. Self reliance wasn't for my benefit....it was for his so he would have to deal with it or have to be there if I really needed him. It took the pressure off him...and put it all back onto me...to figure out it...for myself.
I sure as Hell wasn't going to get any help from my mother in this way. God bless her to death...but she was pretty worthless in teaching me anything about the way the "real world" worked.
J
PS...This always reminds me of the song..."A Boy Named Sue" by Johnny Cash. I have a commonly used "girls" first name too. Funny thing about that. I never got teased or made fun of for it either as it was in the song. I actually like my first name because of it....it's different even though....there are a few of us out there...just not very many. That part....I do like. But more as I said this.. the reasoning behind "Sue's" father had.... in naming him that in the song which reminded me of it. lol At least....I experienced some similar experiences growing up (but not to do with my first name?)
for fun (no resemblance )lol https://youtu.be/6pex_ASYQPM
J - which one specifically
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
J - which one specifically did you watch for the Childhood Trauma? Is it this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3PC8E8qC6o
Yes Dede
Submitted by kellyj on
Everything I was referencing came from the things he said in that video. It was how he said..."you'll learn to have "hope" for a better future"...that really struck me since, since that's what I remember as the only "fumes" I managed to cling to just to survive? That "WAS" a survival strategy....not something I had to learn later on.
J
Dede - I am watching right
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Dede - I am watching right now - I hope I can get some good info out of it!