ADHD and Sex addiction | ADHD and Marriage

Lol MEANT NOT A PRUDE. Also,

Submitted by Longhaul on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 19:21

Lol MEANT NOT A PRUDE. Also, he has stated

he wishes he could get the impulsivity of looking so

much under control.

No prude... Funny typo ;)

Submitted by YYZ on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 01:02

I'm an ADDer who was diagnosed at age 43 and have been taking meds for 3 years. I've been married for almost 17 years and before my DW, I pretty much messed up most relationships due to impulsive actions after the chase was over. I knew from day 1 with my DW that any cheating was the marital death penalty. I knew that I was extremely weak with my self control in this area, especially after drinking. Long before my diagnosis I had to develop a system of just staying away from situations that could lead to trouble. I stayed away from nights out with the guys, if I was out of town for business, I went back to my room after functions instead of going out with people from the conference. I just knew I was weak and needed to steer Way Clear of situations where things could get out of hand.

Since my diagnosis, my impulse control is much better, but sex is still one of the things that I really need. As long as you can stay close with your husband, I'd think that would be the best way to help control any sex addictions. Your DH has to understand that the ADD effects this urge and he needs systems in place to keep things in check.

Do you also have a really

Submitted by Longhaul on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 01:11

Do you also have a really hard time NOT checking out women? I'm really

not sure how to react...not sure how much of it is the ADHD or if all of it is or is it disrespect

ot both?

Checking out women...

Submitted by YYZ on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 01:25

My 1st wife used to accuse me of doing this... I was only 20 and the marriage lasted less than two years. When I first started dating my DW, she told me how annoying it was when her X would stare at women and tell her how good looking they were?!? WTH?!? Moron... After hearing this, I agreed and really tried to Not do this around her. I will say, long before I knew I had ADD, that when I am sitting at a restaurant or public place that movement catches my attention and I tend to look. Motion catches my eye, whether it's a guy or girl, but one obviously could get me into trouble.

I guess I'm saying it can be a little of both. Oblivious that he is so obviously looking at women AND distracted by new motion in the room.

He knows he does it and says

Submitted by Longhaul on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 07:16

He knows he does it and says he hates it. He had some pretty

hurtful behaviors before until he got on meds. He says those have since stopped

totally, but lying was a big issue too. Sometimes I wonder if I did the same stuff if he would bolt. I need

to research all this more. It's brutal on a marriage.

By the way....Princess Bride.

Submitted by Longhaul on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 07:17

By the way....Princess Bride. :)

As you wish...

Submitted by YYZ on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 10:17

PB is a great movie... It was never a box office smash, so it is interesting that SO many people know it so well. I work in IT and so many people drop lines from the movie.

Watch out for the ROUS's ;)

Loss of trust is the worst damage for a marriage

Submitted by YYZ on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 10:36

I commend you for researching how ADD affects both your ADDer and yourself. I believe the more you understand what ADD does to the ADDer and the coping skills that develop because of them the more it can help you understand that not all of the hurtful behaviors are intentional, not that they should just be forgiven/forgotten. Your DH must understand what these behaviors have done to your marriage and work on ways to learn new copings skills. I had an empty trust bucket 3 years ago and have had to learn that just because I correct behaviors, does not mean that my DW's shields are coming down. I cannot control this time-line and I am not known for having too much patience ;) My DW could not fix my ADD and I cannot fix my DW's anger and mistrust. I have focused on doing better with my ADD treatment and this is not a quick fix. The ADD never goes away, but knowing What has effected my behavior for my lifetime and having tools to correct my symptoms is a great relief. I cannot change the past, but I can act/be a better husband, father, friend from this point forward.

The ADD is not the person you married, it has certainly been brutal on your marriage. Things can improve, but most of this is on the ADDer having the "Light Bulb Moment", which in many cases does not happen. You said that your DH knows about some of the hurtful behaviors and is taking meds. This is a good start and hopefully he read more about ADD and get some counseling too.

I hope things improve for you soon.

Trust

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 11:02

I have often heard, when you have no trust, you have NOTHING. Trust was broken so early on in my marriage, then compounded by more lies and cheating, it was NEVER EVER regained. Therefore, I can say with all honesty, I have had NOTHING for 25 years. NOTHING but anxiety, stomach pain and tears.

Trust

Submitted by YYZ on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 11:19

I have often thought the same thing about trust. If there is no trust you have nothing. If your bucket is empty, like mine was, you had better start filling that thing back up. I knew it would not happen overnight, so I just keep trying to add a little at a time. I sorry the bucket is empty from your DH. Does he not do anything to try and correct behaviors that keep holes in the bucket? I try to to little things, like a quick message if I need to work late. Leave work when I said I would, or if things are not done, message again that I'm still working and adjust my time line. If I am out with a friend, I ask before committing to going out, I tell her how long I'll be and stick to my time line. I just try to communicate and not assume she knows I am working late. Let her know who I'm with when I am without her and do what I say I' going to do. It feels like a little over kill, but I emptied the bucket, so I Have to re-fill that bucket.

I hope things get better for you...

This thread is making me feel

Submitted by Longhaul on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:09

This thread is making me feel icky. Maybe I need to face some truths. Is any one person enough for a DHS or DW?

One is enough...

Submitted by YYZ on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:01

One can definitely be enough. That is why reconnecting is so important. When I feel that I'm close to my DW, I don't want anyone else. She is the reason I became reasonably balanced for the first time in my life. I'm determined to make things work. It has not been easy, but what marriage is easy. Hang in there...

The Trust Bucket

Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:46

Hey YYZ,

Just for the record, when the "D" word was first mentioned in my house two years ago, my husband decided to share with a female colleague and a female friend. I, too, was pissed, for a number of reasons: 1) it made it more real, 2) they are women, and it feels like a violation even though I didn't feel threatened by them, 3) he, for his part, would be furious if I confided in a man, and 4) I am oddly trust-worthy for someone with impulse control issues, but I have noted that most women can't keep a secret. This last reason is the most important to me. Most women tell at least one person, and think that even though they can't keep their mouths shut, their confidant will. While shamelessly open here, I am very private about my marriage in my everyday life. Most people have no idea how hellish these past two years have been.

I am bringing this up to let you know that in spite of how I felt about this, I do not feel this emptied the trust bucket. I don't like it, but it happened. He did say something which echoed what you said in a recent post, that his guy friends are "useless" when it comes to this stuff. He is like you in that he's a sensitive male (hope you don't mind the term, I don't mean it derisively, quite the opposite), and he sometimes needs to talk things out. So you saying this helped me realize the truth of his words a bit more and why he did what he did. I guess I am also saying that based on what you have said, I can't imagine why she is still holding onto that after several years. Is she afraid because you had cheated in the past on past girlfriends that you were on the verge of doing that with that colleague? Does she think you have cheated? Is that why she is so mad? I understand the initial anger, but unless I am missing something, I just think it should have long since run its' course. Damn, based on your history and what you did to prevent yourself from repeating the behavior of the pre-DW days, you must really love her a ton. It's too bad she feels so low about herself she can't appreciate that. By the way, do you think her anti-depressants could be thwarting the whole S-- issue?

Infedelity can take a

Submitted by Longhaul on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:32

Infedelity can take a lifetime to earn trust back IMO. It's different for everyone because severity may be different in every situation. That's why I ask the initial question, is this type of behavior and others in this area to be expected from a DS?

My husband, who has ADHD, has

Submitted by PoisonIvy on Sun, 05/27/2012 - 22:10

My husband, who has ADHD, has never been unfaithful (in the sexual sense). Not very trustworthy, but never unfaithful.

Hey ADDMomof2...

Submitted by YYZ on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 00:40

I don't know how sensitive I am, but I do need to talk things through, for sure. I certainly don't mind the comment, but I bet my DW would not quite agree. It is all about trust to my DW. If I lied about one thing, then what else have I lied about? My DW knows my track record before her, so that is always in the back of her mind. She is sure I cheated with the former co-worker/friend, but I did not cheat physically. My talking was worse than cheating to her. She has low self-esteem and protects herself by drawing conclusions first. The anti-depressants definitely affect her drive, but it's the trust and inability to let her guard down that affects us the most.

I don't know what the answer is about regaining her trust, as I'm not sure it was ever 100%, but after the incident with the co-worker trust may never be there again. Thanks for your perspective on my broken trust issue.

I hadn't realized that you

Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 04:45

I hadn't realized that you didn't tell her that you were venting to a co-worker and she somehow found out. I guess that adds a different dimension to this whole thing, but I would still say that you have paid your dues, and are doing everything in your power to prove you are trustworthy, including the incredible feat of being ADHD and being on-time (How the hell do you manage that? I'm impressed...:)).

I've heard that trust is a gift, and that while you can break it, contrary to popular belief, it isn't necessarily a meritocracy. I guess your experience of continual purgatory lends credence to that, unfortunately.

I should be in bed now. Can't sleep due to fight with DH over state of us. He tells me that I didn't even do anything to provoke it. Great. Well, I guess the meditation is working because I didn't snap at him once. And he says I can't change. Watch me, is all I have to say to him. Challenge accepted. And I have changed, by the way. It's his perception that is skewed because I still have some important issues I am working on. Doesn't mean my other improvements are negated. I suppose it's the same for your wife's perception, except that, in your case, you are beyond me in terms of ADHD progress. I have earned a steady income college graduation, but I have not kept track of my finances well. I am not a shopper, but I haven't been organized about keeping track of what I do spend or invested anything. It's an issue for us. I am amazed that you take care of the finances and do the bills and have ADHD. I am also working on my temper/anxiety/control of my ADHD symptoms throughout the day. I am feeling more confident about this one today. I have better coping skills I'm putting all together. All right, I'm rambling, so I am going to finish my chamomile tea and hope for the best. I am no good without sleep. Baaaaadddd for the symptom control. I see Melatonin in my very near future...

Hang in there, YYZ. I KNOW it's tough. Maybe some more dates leading to a consistent date night might help? The lack of connection can't help her perspective...

Trustworthy

Submitted by YYZ on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 11:45

I guess there is even more work to do. Yesterday I found out that doing research on a major purchase is a "Lie" if I don't come forward with full disclosure at the inception of the idea. I researched the Chevy Volt and discovered that although I would give up the performance I enjoy with my current car, I would basically not use any gas during the week, saving us over $200 per month and get $8700 in tax credits. (Taxes are another painful area each year) My DW HATES discussing cars, largely due to impulsive choices in our early days of marriage. I drove the Volt, it was okay, they looked at my car, but there was no way this deal could work as I've only had my car about 8 months. So I never mentioned it. A couple of weeks later (Late last week) I took her car in for a recall repair. I saw a real pretty car that I knew she would like, we had equity in her car and they me take it home to show her, when I dropped my car off for service. She blew a gasket when I mentioned it to her. I "Lied" to her about looking into getting her into an upgraded car with payments less than her current car with no money down. I thought she would be excited. We have about $1000 dollars in brakes and tires coming up soon on her car and we are about to go on vacation. I don't know, it sounded like something to consider. Oh... Zero Interest on this deal too... The actual "Lie" happened when she asked if I was looking for a new car and I said no. She had already gone through my phone and found emails from when I was researching the Volt. There was no deal to be made, so there never was a deal. I was selfishly trying to save $200+ a month in gas and give up my performance sedan in the process?!?!?!? You cannot know if a car deal is possible without going to the dealer for an appraisal of your car. So I am a Liar and she is a Snoop, as she put it. I have a lock code on my phone that the family knows, because I don't have anything to hide. I could have deleted all emails from the Volt dealer, but I didn't because I have nothing to hide. She jumped to the worst conclusion after snooping through my phone and set me up to lie to her by asking a question she knew the answer to already. Happy holiday...

I am a selfish bastard trying to trade my car for something to save us money and for trying to upgrade my DW's car at no cost and actualy dropping her payment by $20 dollars a month. I never knew I was such an A-Hole.

You sound like you are doing great improving things one symptom at a time. This is all we can do... Keep up the good work ADDMomof2 :)

Sorry for the off topic post on this thread, but believe me it relates to Sex in an ADD / Non-ADD marriage...

aww crap

Submitted by gardener447 on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 16:36

As you might think, too, I'm guessing this story is not about what it seems to be about. It's not about cars, lying, snooping, etc. It's about anger, and how anger can take any easy or not-so-easy path to get out. Angry about something you might think, deep down, you don't have a "right" to be angry about, but still angry? Then when car shopping things happen, you can expand them to ridiculous proportions to get the anger out. That kind of reaction from your wife, assuming you hadn't previously agreed to never explore cars, seems way out of proportion... I've observed that anger is sometimes fear -- of loss of control, of loss of security, of loss... in general. What do you think she is afraid of? Afraid "you" will do something to jeopardize her otherwise fabulous life? when you step back and look at her with compassion and understanding of her fears (suppressed into anger) what do you see? It's not your job to help her out of it, but maybe seeing it can make it easier for you. Maybe.

Anger and insecurity...

Submitted by YYZ on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 18:20

She just kept repeating how I was lying to her and I guess on some technical level she is right. Lying and deceit I do understand and my intentions were to gather information and see if there was a deal which we could benefit from. I was looking to down grade my car for an electric car and upgrade her car with no expense, while dropping the payment. But these are "Lies" and if I lie about this, what else do I lie about. I never agreed to not ever look at cars, but I agreed to talk to her when I am thinking about it. If the electric car would have been do-able, I would have talked over all the reasons I was thinking about doing it. Her was was merely a surprise. I had signed or agreed to nothing and if she liked it, I would have told her the details, otherwise just taken it back when my car was ready. I "Thought" I had a really interesting way to save $200+ a month in expenses and a nice surprise for her, but all I did was "Lie" to her. She told me she had not snooped in my phone in a long time, but "Every time" time she does she finds something. I leave my password the same, and did not delete the car emails because I was not in a conspiracy of deception.

She does not know if she can trust me and suggested we "Pretend" for the kids, then see where things go.

How deflating... I knew the Volt deal was dead, but was working on her car surprise on my birthday to reveal over the holiday weekend.

I can't wait to go back to work tomorrow...

Sorry for the rant.

YYZ....wherever the word car

Submitted by Longhaul on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 20:41

YYZ....wherever the word car is, put the word woman...that is what

she fears...my experience is my DH husband has lied a lot to me. Yes, about other women. Once trust is broken fear takes its place.

Her anger is hurt love, otherwise she would be indifferent. Quit trying to be right, get ur butt to her and say ur sorry. If there were impulse issues with cars and it has bothered her in the past, you should have told her. Now, go make it up to her as a man should...

Car

Submitted by YYZ on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 21:15

I did tell her I was sorry. I guess my mistake was in where research ends and deals begin in her mind. I don't even want to bring car situation up, unless I've figured out the details, because when I bring it up the defenses fly up assuming the worst. I had worked up detailed gas analysis, insurance rates, trade values and if the purchase would have made sense, like $200 per month savings, I would have talked with her about the possibility of the deal. I would not have come home with it or signed anything without talking about this purchase. The numbers were not going to work, so I dropped the discussions with the dealer. I guess the assumption that I was after a selfish new toy just hacked me off a bit. I understand that this is something I have to change, so I'll take it with a grain of salt and do better next time.

Thanks for your comments...

Key word here being I. I

Submitted by SherriW13 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:41

Key word here being *I*. *I* was looking to downgrade. *I* would have talked over doing it..*I* thought I had a really interesting (REALLY??) way to save $200...BUYING A NEW CAR NEVER SAVES MONEY...DON'T KID YOURSELF!!!

Walking onto a car lot and working through numbers and deals and all of that other jazz is simply something that should be agreed upon by both parties. ALWAYS. What you see here is (if I am to believe that you were COMPLETELY motivated by saving money alone...which, I doubt) that you were wanting to save money...and all she sees is someone who cannot be trusted to discuss important, EXPENSIVE decisions with her. Deal or not, you stepped over a boundary. Maybe not a boundary for everyone, but apparently it is a boundary for her. Is for me too.

My DH has a 'past' history of things like this as well...and what something like this would represent to me is "INSECURITY". I would be thinking 'he doesn't have control of his impulses' 'he is dangerous and unpredictable' 'he is being sneaky and hiding things' 'what will he do next???!!'

Take it for what it is worth..I am usually your biggest fan...but you owe her an apology. Period.

I appologized...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 13:15

And it was a topic with history and I understand that too. The car I was researching was the Chevy Volt. If a reasonable deal could be struck, my gas consumption would drop $200 per month and we would have received $8700 in Tax Credits. Also, with this car, if gas rose to $5 a gallon we work close enough to ride together if needed. I truly had good intentions. I calculated all the possible monthly costs with my car to the new car and if we could save $200 it would be worth discussing. This was not a selfless act as I like my car and if the Volt would have been a dog to drive, that would have been it. The "It" was the trade deficit so the number never made sense. I only went to the dealer the get a real appraisal of my car and to drive the Volt. They wanted me to come in and talk, but that was not going to happen. A few emails later andI knew there was nothing to discuss.

I have a hard time bringing up ideas about major purchases without having any facts, but I realize now that it would have been better to tell her my concept from the beginning. Realize how fast things get shot down as apparent "Pie in the Sky" ideas from me because of my poor big picture explanations.

Sherri... Your perspective is something I always like to hear, even if you think I'm totally out of bounds.

Thanks

This Sounds Like A Familiar Fight

Submitted by bilf on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 20:42

So, let's back it up here and, please, don't think I'm tearing you a new one.

I've read enough of your posts to know your wife is in a way better spot than I in terms of your interest in getting appropriate treatment.

Anyway, I kindly say, you missed the boat here. It isn't about motive. That is the issue you're focusing on.

This is a common way my husband 'misses the boat' within our relationship.

It is a partnership issue. Major decisions are made together.

To be "technical" here, what I'm saying is that a major purchase IS a major decision. Partnership in this area means BOTH people need to be completely involved from start to finish.

In trying to refill the 'trust bank' you simply must consider past financial infidelity. That is correct, I did actually call it that. The result is quite the same in terms of trust. Previous episodes do count in which not taking the other person into consideration has been a violation to them. It sounds like this has happened in your relationship from your description.

There are two types of 'lies' within relationships. There are sins of commission and sins of omission. This one is the later.

I, personally, cannot even begin to imagine when I'll ever begin to trust my husband again on this one. It would certainly take a lot of work.

Being flippant about the fact he'd thought of an end means that was 'nice' for me wouldn't help at all in this situation. It just turns into one more situation where he hadn't seen what a partnership means. Justifying it would just make it worse. Been to that party.

I would look at this situation and think this: As my husband had actually been looking at a car for himself, without telling me, and then switched to bringing home something I would like, the real truth of the matter was that he was needing a charge from something shiny and new. He might be justifying it with gas mileage, but really that wasn't it. There are things like payments involved, insurance, other things to consider that I didn't even get asked about...

It would be just one more time I wasn't treated as a partner in this thing called marriage.

I appreciate the comments...

Submitted by YYZ on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 22:48

I understand missing the boat and that these purchases are for a couple to make jointly. I had in no way committed to a purchase without my wife. I know she hates the whole car purchase experience. The car deals I described were two different deals. My looking into the Volt ended about a week before I even thought about upgrading my DW's car. I had nothing to gain from this purchase other than getting her a new ride, new warranty, lower payment, zero interest, and a car not needing $1000 in repairs coming up pretty quick. I was going to show her the car, explain the numbers and let her decide. I really did not care one way or the other. I had made no promise to the dealer, only let them look at her car and tell me what the numbers would be if we decided to make the deal.

I did not need new and shiney, because my car is only 8 months old. When I research these purchases, I OCD on gas consumption, insurance, safety and of course payment details. I won't make this mistake again... I just honestly thought she would love the car.

All this really represents is the fact that since I lied about this, what else do I lie about... I slip undid 3 years of work. Do a hundred things right, but it does not matter when you slip once. I never get beat up when I come home with items to begin a big home improvement project. The cars are taboo hot points I guess.

I really do appreciate your comments regarding lies by omission. I guess I thought this was all research, because no purchase was made.

Not even reading the other reples first

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Mon, 05/28/2012 - 23:31

Sorry, but I read your post and I am replying right off the cuff.

Dude, you blew it. I would have done the SAME THING, given her mistrust of you in the past and I would also be pissed as hell.

Yes, you....JUST LIKE MY HUSBAND....try like hell to sooo innocently excuse the whole situation away, and make us wives sound like lunatics. I buy into your story, just like most of my husbands stories are all so "easily explained". Truth of the matter is, you are desperately working on TRUST issues and he ability to believe what you say, to be the honest truth and YOU LIED to her.

Yes, you have alot of work to do, and I take "her side" on this one.

I get it... I lied by ommission...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 00:01

I slipped up, my intentions are irrelevant, but what is not irrelevant is how much work has been done in the matters of trust over the last three years and one screw up blanks the sheet. This is what I'm so mad about. Three years of dismissal of my diagnosis, three years of improved communication, stepping up and noticing when she needs help and offering assistance. Unlike many Non-ADD Spouses, she does not carry 70% of the load in this house. Even before diagnosis the workload was split. Her anger is as bad as anything my ADD affects. We walk on pins and needles when she is stressed waiting for something to set her off. She will calm down and apologize, I forgive her and don't bring it up again. I don't get the same deal. My mistakes are brought up when they are good ammunition and after I say I'm sorry for my screw ups there is a good penalty phase to wait through. I guess I just a little tired of the the inequality of the penalty phase. I understand that my memory makes it easier to forgive and forget, but ADDer's are striving to get their brains to work more like the Non-ADDbrains, so why not a little reciprocation the other way?

I'm sorry for my posts tonight, but getting kicked in the head on my birthday weekend when my intentions were good, but poorly executed in true ADD fashion has me in a pretty bad place. Especially the comment made to me about faking the relationship. Faking it is a waste of time. If there can never be any improvement in trust, then I am wasting my time. I just feel sick tonight.

I do appreciate the feedback from you guys, this is why I'm still here.

Seriously, I am not

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 08:32

Seriously, I am not personally taking it upon myself to beat you up over this. You just remind me SO MUCH of my own husband, that it's not even funny.

All I read from you is "poor me", "poor me" "poor me". "I work sooooo hard", she doesn't appreciate it, she's too judgemental and the best part about things NOT BEING FAIR !!........Has it EVER, EVER, EVER been fair to her????? EVER?????

When you mess up someone so badly, with lies and omissions and "half truths" (as my husband refers to them), you personally rip apart the core of the sacred relationship/partnership called marriage. EVERY SINGLE time we heal a little and let down our guard and trust and believe (which is so painfully hard to do, due to past experiences), we are AGAIN LET DOWN. It's painful. Very, very painful.

I wish you all the best. I honestly do. But with you and your scorecard--- keeping track about how much good you have done by her, only to have it all wiped away from ONE STUPID MOVE just shows me, that like my husband, it's "all about YOU and always will be.....so sorry

Print this out for your wife...show her...let it start conversation.....see what happens. Let her know that "I get it"

NJTWINMOM....I so need to get

Submitted by Longhaul on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 09:14

NJTWINMOM....I so need to get your email. (admin note: please do not post your emails or other personal contact information on this public forum - use the personal contact form <"my account"/edit/"enable personal contact form"> if you wish to initiate contact and share emails - longhaul has hers enabled - then click on the person's name on select the "contact" tab) I feel exactly how you do. YYZ....until you see things from her side...until you really put yourself there, you won't see. I believe in a marriage if there is no empathy, there is nothing. I believe this to be even more important than trust.

Joint Decisions

Submitted by lynnie70 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 09:31

I think it needs to be repeated: Major purchases in a marriage are JOINT decisions. From the start. The fact that you didn't even ask her opinion seems to indicate you wanted to do it whether she liked it or not and intended to push her into getting the car. After all, you took time to do your research, but you were just going to spring it on her and ask for an unresearched, unthoughtout decision. Smacks of manipulation to me. Trust me, non-ADHD spouses do NOT like surprises!!!!!!!

Joint decisions

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 09:49

My DW had pointed out this car several times to me over the last year or so and I explained that it was a more luxurious version of the car she has now. I made no commitment to the dealer, no check to hold, nothing signed and "Thought" she would love the car. That's it... If she liked it we could go from there, if not, I dropped it off when my car was ready in the service department. She made it real clear that she does not like this type of surprise, so I have updated my notes, told her I was sorry for surprising her.

I would never buy a car without both of us agreeing on the purchase and I've never bought one without her in the past. I did the research because she does not like to research them, I researched the numbers because she does not like to get her hopes up, then not get the car.

Bottom line... I thought she would like it. Maybe I've seen too many family examples of the Dad or Uncle bringing a car home as a surprise for their wives. There was no manipulation intended here.

My DH and I agreed a long time ago regarding major purchases, that if there was anything over $100 we would discuss it with each other.

Thanks for your post. Maybe I should start a new post since I have totally de-railed the original topic here.

All I see are excuses

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:10

I still just hear you making excuses....translation blah, blah blah. I not only have walked in your wifes shoes, but apparently we "share" more than one pair :(

Yes, I have heard of my Father In Law also single handedly purchasing a car and just showing up with it...Let's hear it for the 1940's, 50's and 60's!!

While just like my husband, supposedly you have no malintent, no ulterior motive, no nothing. You're just a nice guy, doing a nice thing and your seemingly intolerable wife pisses all over your goodness. Yup...we have tons of that going on here as well.

I call it like I see it.

cool it

Submitted by smilingagain on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:19

I don't like seeing someone getting attacked. He may remind you of your husband. But he is NOT your husband. Stop transferring your anger onto him. It just oozes off the page. Translation: I AM SO FREAKING ANGRY YOU HAVE NO CHANCE AGAINST MY ANGER

He already said he feels regret over it. He said he gets that in future all car-related crap has to be out in the open.

He was just explaining why he thought this wasn't part of that. He made a mistake, sure. But simmer down.

I have ADD too- so maybe I see his point better than you- but COME ON! He is explaining what caused him to err in judgment.

Geez.

Hello????

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:26

He is looking to try to understand his wifes point of view. There are three of us giving it to him, four if you count his wife, and I get singled out?

Please read ALL the replies he got regarding this "incident" he posted about.

We are trying desperately to get him to "see" her side of the situation, to understand where she is coming from and sadly, ADHD more times than not, needs "tough love", and NOT a pity party.

Do you have NO feelings for his wife? Just jumping in to pat his back seems as though you haven't "been there" or experienced this at all.

please

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:30

please don't reply..publish it and after I read it you change it :(

wow.

Submitted by smilingagain on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:34

I read it, found a typo and then went back to correct it- while there, I edited. You hadn't posted anything first.

I am not here to fight.

But you seem like you are.

You aren't giving him constructive criticism.

you aren't acknowledging that his perspective has any merit.

you appeared to be raging at him.

Trust me- I have 'been there'. My perspective is just as valid as yours. I am in a 9 year marriage with a child.

but you can't tell me you were just trying to help him your wife's point of view. You were also raging and belittling.

As you said- I call it as I see it.

I also wished him the best I

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:35

I also wished him the best

I offered suggestions as to a helpful way to start a conversation with his wife.

YOU....YOU....violated rules, by simply coming to attack me, which you now have me stooping to do. You offered NO suggestions, NO help, NO anything.

Please rethink your opinion of me. I am giving him "tough love"....helping him try to see HER SIDE.

Thank you

I am sorry. I didn't simply

Submitted by smilingagain on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:16

I am sorry.

I didn't simply come to attack you. I didn't mean to attack you. But your posts definitely triggered me. I'll admit that. But I do stand by what I said- even if it was said too strongly.

you weren't being constructive in those last few posts. You were just kind of slamming your points into him- using language like "his seemingly intolerable wife is pissing all over his goodness".

I came to his defense- because it seemed like you were transferring your own experiences and frustrations with your spouse onto him. This wasn't a big cardinal sin that requires public flogging. He made an error in judgment about discussing the car thing along the way... It was a small mistake- that triggered a big consequence. And then he comes here to discuss it and he gets harsh, unrelenting criticism and condemnation. He'll never get it. He's making excuses, blah blah blah...

This is where I got triggered:

I am used to making mistakes (UNINTENTIONAL- although apparently intentions don't matter), and facing baffling anger. This is a pattern for a lot of ADHD people.

It is always so hurtful when we make a mistake, which we truly didn't intend and don't fully understand and then someone is enraged by it and carries that rage forever. It's disproportionate to us. I am not saying that his wife is wrong to be upset with him- just that he doesn't fully grasp why.

What he doesn't deserve is your rage.

And you don't deserve mine. so I am sorry if you felt attacked. I don't have bad impressions of you and I am sorry that my words hurt you or angered you.

I do think your earlier posts were more constructive in tone- but these last few... reread them... do you think they are helpful to him?

Nail on the head...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:41

Your statement: "I am used to making mistakes (UNINTENTIONAL- although apparently intentions don't matter), and facing baffling anger." This sums up so much for me. How do intentions not matter?

I know I can get mad and when I learn the facts about what happened it certainly effects how mad I get. I don't have "Anger = ON" or "Anger = OFF" This is what I feel like I face at times.

I also make Intentional Mistakes, but I try not too... If I do, I own it and try to make amends for it. I do admit my mistakes either way.

Thanks for your comments...

Because of the past, your

Submitted by SherriW13 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 13:20

Because of the past, your intentions in the future will always be judged. At least that is how it is for me and my DH. Because of our 'fear' and anger, your intentions will always be suspect. And, lastly, we all have a right to have our own perspective on things without being judged. I will go a step further than my last post (after reading more...) and say that I am convinced that your intentions weren't malicious. Just the simple fact that you could go so far as to know how much it would save you, how much you spend on gas, how much the insurance was, how much payments are, etc..is quite impressive to me as my DH would know NONE of this as he likes staying in the 'oblivious' zone when it comes to bills, money, costs of anything, etc. He could not, if his life depended on it, tell me how much my car payment is, how much either of us spends a month in gas, how much our insurance is, etc. Kudos to you for at least being aware of that. (see, this is my changing my perspective a bit...to give you credit where credit is due).

Also, on the same note...your wife doesn't deserve to be labeled as an angry, over reacting witch just because she was upset over this..and her anger surpassed what you feel was appropriate. Probably was more than necessary, but I can assure you if it were me, I would have had a ton of old flashbacks in the first few seconds of finding this out and REGARDLESS of how much it might have saved in gas (or anything else), just the fact that you'd done all of this without even discussing it would have closed my eyes and ears and I wouldn't have wanted to hear anything you had to say either. It would have ALL been irrelevant at that point.

My DH tells me recently...key word here is "TELLS" me...that he is getting a motorcycle this fall. His 'rationalization' is that he will do extra work this summer to help get our bills caught up (remember, he was out of work for almost 3 months), but that this fall he was buying a motorcycle. Oh, and he said he would pay cash for it...and apparently had been looking into it before mentioning it. I can tell you that the first thoughts going through my mind were "he will never stop doing this..needing more..being oblivious to how broke we really are" His rationalization? It will save a bunch in gas. NOTHING he ever does saves us money. First it will be adding it to the insurance. Then he'll have to have these boots, this jacket, this helmet (none of which will be inexpensive), and then this repair and that upgrade and this fancy new thing, etc. Tires, repairs, maintenance, etc. The list goes on and on. That is all I see...all he sees is 'something new and shiny'. All I see is him wanting something to 'feed' his ADHD. All he sees is that he's offering to pay cash for it (which I can just about bet would NEVER happen) so what is the big deal? I mean you could NOT get two people who were further from each other's realities than we are on this issue. I decided to make him a deal...first pay all of the bills up and get them current...then pay back the $5000 that you borrowed WITHOUT EVER MENTIONING IT TO ME OR DISCUSSING IT WITH ME last fall when my SD claimed to have lost all of her school funding (but claims to not know why)...pay off the Bill Me Later account that you opened a couple of years ago ($800) that you never mentioned to me or asked me about or discussed with me OR admitted what it was for....get our animals up to date on shots, flea treatments, and other needed things...take your family on a vacation (even if only a day trip to somewhere) that we haven't had in FOUR YEARS....and THEN save the $4000 you need for the motorcycle and I will give you my blessing. He hasn't mentioned it since.

We all screw up dude...ADHD or not. Just see it from her perspective instead of trying to rationalize it from your own. We both know it doesn't work. This is why I quit arguing with my DH over shit that I know will never resolve itself. Not worth it. I respect that he feels how he feels, even if I don't agree, and I try my best not to hold any of it against him. If you love her, and I know you do, then respect how she feels and move on. It isn't about being right...it can't be about being right. No one ever wins when it is.

History certainly clouds things

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 13:44

I admit that this particular topic was foolish of me unveil the YYZ 2.0 (Not all about me car deal). Your answer to your husband's motorcycle idea was awesome, logical and would make perfect sense to me. I think I was just caught off guard by the familiar reaction to a YYZ 2.0 deal. In the old days I would have just shut down and let it die, but I did not yesterday and should have tried to postpone this discussion when we were in a better place. I wish I had remembered this... I have heard so many times how my ideas are for me, so when I really work up ideas for us it is just deflating to have it dismissed as something other than what I intended. Again... I totally chose the wrong venue for a YYZ 2.0 plan.

She was hurt again by me and one of my plans. I was hurt because I cannot to be trusted. Leap backwards moment...

Lesson learned and I won't do it again. From my side, I thought I had been building a little trust back and if she cannot trust me then I'm doing a lot wrong.

Thanks Sherri

I don't think this requires a

Submitted by SherriW13 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:01

I don't think this requires a dismissal of all trust on your part. Not trusting you to avoid a good deal on a shiny new car is one thing...completely different from other types of trust. Trust does have an overall, comprehensive affect on the entire way you feel about someone and everything they do or say...but just because you researched a car doesn't mean your trust bucket is empty. Your best bet is to not rationalize it anymore and just keep saying "I'm sorry" and this too shall pass. I am only saying you own an apology because you broke a promise not to do this. Because marriage is a partnership and part of making her feel like your partner is not surprising her with stuff like this...especially if you know she doesn't like it. For all of the good you tried to do, something still was wrong about it to her...and in the interest of the marriage, you did what was right by saying "I'm sorry". Please don't defeat yourself and all of the hard work you've done by thinking you're fighting a losing battle...or spinning your wheels. There is a fine line between admitting you're wrong, apologizing, and moving on with the commitment to never do it again and admitting you're wrong, apologizing, and then feeling defeated and resentful. The first is the right way to go...the second will make the wedge between you bigger.

YYZ I don't see that the lie was by omission

Submitted by Aspen on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:16

It was a flat out lie and it was hands down what would have sent me over the edge into rage in about 5 seconds. If I have the story right, she said to you something along the lines of "Are you looking at purchasing another car?" Having already looked at your phone and KNOWING FOR SURE that you were looking at purchasing one (whether you did or followed through or anything else is irrelevant because you were looking into it) and you said "NO"

For me in this issue that would have been period.end of sentence. you are a liar. territory. I will NOT ABIDE being lied to, and it has happened in many ways just like it happened to you. Lying because he is misinterpreting what I am asking, misspeaking because it is the first thing that comes to mind, lying by saying something is done that he forgot about but thinks he can run and do really quick and I don't ever need to know about it.

I think you lied ......and you did lie......because you figured what she 'really' wanted to know was whether you were BUYING a car. Since you weren't, you just figured it doesn't matter.

I have told my husband over and over that he doesn't get to decide what matters and doesn't matter for both of us. If I ask a question, I don't need any editting done by his assumptions. All I want is the answer to my question, and in my opinion this is where you blew it.

Now I know you know you blew it and I know you are trying to resolve it and you DEFINITELY learned a valuable lesson that I believe 100% you will apply going forward. All good. But none of your posts seem to take notice of the issue of the lie. You call it by omission.........you agree with another poster who says:

"I am used to making mistakes (UNINTENTIONAL- although apparently intentions don't matter), and facing baffling anger."

In my opinion it isn't unintentional to say NO when the answer is YES. I know from listening to my husband and other ADHD spouses that to you the answer may really have seemed like NO since you are going to the end of the issue as in "No we are not buying a car therefore the answer is no" however the answer to the question that she asked was YES. Your miscommunication caused the blow up.

Researching a car is not bad. Making a plan that may or may not work when discussed.....not bad. Saying you didn't do what you did do.....BAD BAD BAD

He made an error in judgment about discussing the car thing along the way... It was a small mistake- that triggered a big consequence.

The ADHD partners here seem to be coming from a place of this being no big deal.......

YYZ is doing so well, so he should be forgiven for a slip up

YYZ had good intentions to do something good for his family, so he should be forgiven if he went around it the wrong way

YYZ is a good husband who loves his wife and therefore should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to issues where there is miscommunication.

I get where you are coming from but there are people like me who think being lied to is one of the biggest sins a husband can commit against her. The only time I ever told my husband that I wished I wasn't married to him at that moment was when it came out that he'd lied to me for several months over an honest, unintentional financial mistake he made. No biggie, no big problem or issue if he told me right away, but it was 3 times worse by the time I found out (NOT from him btw) and if I was the type to walk away from a marriage that would have been the moment for me. It was a matter of $1000 or so.........certainly not a deal breaker there. We were able to tighten our belts to nothing and pay it within 2 months, but the trust he blew up at that moment (very early in our marriage) haunts us to this day.

Just the fact that he'd lie instead of talk to me together about something makes every NO that really should be YES 100 times bigger right at the moment of saying it. That is where the baggage gets you.

Because you damaged the trust in other ways in your marriage, you don't get a bye on telling her NO when the answer is YES...........ever. Yes it can be resolved, but it takes fessing up to what you did and understanding why it is not ok. We all misspeak and you may not get angry when she does it, but you don't have the same baggage.

I could be completely off base, but that is where I went when I read this thread last night. I walked away for the day because I wanted to scream she is mad because you lied and you don't get it and feel her reaction is overblown and unfair and all you did was lie by omission anyway!!! Poor poor me, I am doing so good and one mistake and it is all undone. I understand why you feel this way, but every nonADD mate who has ever faced this feeling sorry for yourself after you screw something up........oh boy does it make us mad!! Have you figured that out yet, YYZ?!?!?! LOLOL

It triggered me so I walked away..........but I still do think that this could be a big part of her problem, and if it is I don't think you are addressing it well and your minimizing of this part can do more damage if you don't stop it. I had decided not to post here because I don't want my baggage to become anyone else's baggage, but I just don't see anyone else addressing what I think the problem can be, therefore I am throwing in my 2c and it may be worth exactly what you paid for it :)

You are correct...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:06

If I would have discussed my first plan, I would have avoided lying. Big screw-up and it won't happen again. I believe your reaction was the same as most other Non-ADDer's here and I appreciate the illustrations too. My definition of "Research" seems to be where I really screwed up. I drove the car, got mine appraised, but never sat down to buy the car or fill out any purchase paperwork. I researched my trade value, price of the car, insurance rates, interest rates, gas expenses and IRS Tax Credit to see if was even worth discussing. I quickly saw this was not worth doing.

Now I know that reading about the car on the internet is not lying and any research beyond that needs discussion.

Hopefully I got this one figured out by now.

Thanks Aspen...

Agree

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:20

I am in full agreement.

It's all good.

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:05

We will simply agree to disagree on this one.

He presented a story about a situation. Came looking for understanding as to "why" his wife would feel this way. Several of us explained it. He commented again. I tried again explaining it from his wifes side of the story, which is what he NEEDED....not pats on the back, saying you really didn't do any harm, you were looking out for the best interest of the family etc etc etc....he KNOWS that. He KNOWS he had no bad intention and thought he did good. He needs to KNOW how actions by ADHD people are interpreted by non ADHD spouses who have been "wronged" one too many times, that's all.

I advised him to print all this out and see that we non ADHD wives understand her. We validate her, and that maybe it would initiate a discussion between them. What better advice can be given other than to "Talk It over".

Helpful is in the eye of the beholder. I have explained many times to my husband that he needs to sit and read many of the posts of this forum. Simply because what they do is show perspective. They let you know you are not alone. Other people, sadly are having the same issues, and maybe someone elses wording, other than the wronged spouse who has been repeating the same things over and over and over can get through. Now does that come across with any compassion?

Just the fact that we non ADHD wives come here means we are trying to see perception of both sides. I am sharing my feelings/perception and recommendations. YYZ talk to me if you have issue, OK, and ADHD wife...it's all good

thanks... it's all good from my perspective too...

Submitted by smilingagain on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:16

... I think we all come here trying to learn- as you said.

We aren't always going to all agree- but it is useful to hear everyone's positions.

I think things get intense because people can see themselves or their spouses in a lot of the posts here or the situations discussed... and that makes things more emotional.

I truly hate conflict- even a small one with a stranger in an internet forum can ruin my whole day- so you've actually done me a big kindness by saying it's all good. Thanks for that. :)

smiling

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:45

Due to living with conflict for most of my life, I really have no issue with it as long as it brings about resolution of some sort. With an ADHD husband, that is sadly next to impossible most days:(

I do understand what you mean about one little internet conflict ruining my day . Can be an email or Facebook. Facebook is notorious for that. I work so hard at making things "right" and then some people just remain pissy even longer.....with me, I am blunt, to the point and here, where sharing our opinions and perspectives is paramount in understanding one anther I just calls em as I sees em.

Glad I made "nicey nice"...don't want anyones day ruined.

H*U*G*S

It's all good for me too...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:19

The perspective I gain here is why I keep coming back. It seems that this was a good example miscommunications. I think it is great that in the end we all still seem to be here on this thread, rather derailed from the original topic, but it is nice to see that we can all express our feelings and keep the dialog going.

I have not pressed the "Run Away" button in a long time ;)

Thanks,

NJTWINMOM

I've got it...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:46

I really do understand. I was kind of mad last night and not writing my clearest thoughts. (Excuse, I know)

Sorry to all...

If I've got the sequence of

Submitted by Haps on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:35

If I've got the sequence of events right, I really find it quite refreshing that you thought of what your wife might want or need. A car is a big purchase, sure, but there are many ways to look at/experience this.

From my perspective, I'd LOVE it if my guy were to make an overture like that, I'd be incredibly happy. The "script" I've written in my own head, though, would make it difficult to overcome my long-standing fear that a new car in the driveway meant that he went ahead and did EVERYTHING to make it a reality (i.e. biggest fear of fallout from impulsive behavior fear realized.) There's also the looming thoughts of "he didn't do this for me. he did it for himself only" since that's how I've interpreted his behavior to date.

At the end of everything, though, it falls down to a communication thing. I'd be open to understanding how my thinking has not be correct and working on correcting that thinking *IF* he were willing to have to conversation. I'd hope we could find some place to meet in the middle, but only after a healthy chat will it fall somewhere. Unfortunately, we're not in that place to have the conversation.

Has your DW read Melissa's book? I couldn't help but chuckle in places. It's written quite well so that neither of the parties are "off the hook". You arrive to this point happily, though, since everything leading up to it makes you wonder "Was Melissa living in my house/head when she wrote this?!" Maybe that could be the neutral "white flag" your DW needs to get over her hump? I wish my guy would look at it.

Melissa's Book

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:30

Unfortunately my DW has not wanted to read any books on the subject of ADD. I've told her about this website too. In the past, before diagnosis, there were certainly times (Most) where car deals were mostly for me. I love cars, she likes a nice car but it is really a means from A to B. I Really just wanted to do something nice for her, and when I figured out it would not be an additional financial burden on us I got Real Excited because she would not have to feel guilty about getting something and feeling guilty about the purchase...

I wish she would read the book, so she could see that she is not alone in the things she has endured and I am not using my ADD as an excuse for all my mistakes. I stay on this site to stay sharp and don't leave a conversation because I don't like what I'm hearing. I take it and try to see the points presented to me.

Thanks for your comments...

yyz ...just impulsive but with a past

Submitted by jennalemon on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:11

Nothing really wrong here what you did but the past puts a shadow over it and it becomes yet another little misunderstanding coloring it with betrayal, insensitivity, and feeling left out for her. It was just an impulse probably stirred on by a charismatic salesperson (male or female she doesn't know - she may imagine it was a female). It was just a "camel and straw" thing for her with visions in her mind and lack of trust.

Now, turn it around and imagine that she drove in the yard with a car she was enthusiastic about "for you". It was just what she imagined "you" would love. She had been talking to a charismatic salesperson (possibly a charming male) for quite a while that day and was talked into driving it home to surprise YOU with, wheeling and dealing to get the best price and all the other details that are involved when she found a car "for you" to just look at for spec - not bought or anything. Maybe she had the look of just having had an orgasm she was so excited about the conversation she just had "for you". Imagine that she had the adrenaline fix of "the gift" that you would be driving for a few years, but you didn't have any of the adrenaline fix of the hunt or the wheel and deal or the dream or choosing. She did that FOR you at the car lot with the sales person. Just her and the sales person together did that FOR YOU! What it feels like is that you took looking for HER car "for her" away from her. You did that with another person, not her.

I have been in her shoes. My husband is a sucker for a sales person of any gender.

This is just an assumed scenerio of how a hurt person like me might imagine the day had gone. It sort of takes away from the whole "surprise gift" fun when trust is lacking on our part.

He is a guy...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:17

We bought two cars from him in 2009. I am no longer the Salesman's favorite customer, since Adderall helps with the impulse control and I methodically work out all the numbers from trade values, gas, insurance, rebates vs. interest rates, the depreciation per year on my trade vs equity gained in the same period. I don't play the games and I tell them up front. I will not do a deal in one day, period. I'll take extended test drives to get a feel for mileage and ride quality, but sign no intent to purchase. I show up at the end of the month when they are desperate. EOY is even better. I've become a sales persons worst nightmare, and educated buyer who knows a little about manipulation.

My wife knew the sales person is a guy. She hates looking at cars, but she likes nice ones and will occasionally point one out that she likes. If my DW came home one day with a Shelby GT500 Super Snake I'd probably have a heart attack, but I'd be So Excited. We'd have to have won the lottery to do this... Maybe my reaction to this gesture is what I was hoping she would have? It was one of those so opposite from the reaction I expected than it really set me back.

It was indeed too soon for any surprise in a troubled category. Thanks for your insight...

Thanks for responding

Submitted by jennalemon on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:39

Again, you are not my husband. You answered just right. Sometimes I just react to HIM at things I read on this site. I would so like HIM to understand my trustless mind so that he might be stirred to admit to ADD brain and work on it. I am glad you cleared that up. Over the years, before I realized I was losing my self, I had accepted and done gracious THANK YOUs to so many of his "gosh darn adorable" surprises that felt to me ....ahh compromised.... by ulterior or insincere motives from him. I feel so stupid for not trusting my instincts more and for giving him so much benefit of the doubt. Maybe my tirade will help someone see how my mind might have worked in a similar situation. And you have helped to show us how someone with ADD can organize themselves and have the tenacity to stay with this AND have the patience and clarity to organize your thoughts to yourself and respond here with the facts.

Thank you :)

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:51

I really appreciate your post. We are all here because we want to understand and make things better. It IS hard not to hear my DW making some of the statements I read too. I like to see a thread through because leaving is too easy. (The Great Escape) The people here on this website help keep me pointed in the right direction.

Thanks...

Kudos!

Submitted by SherriW13 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:03

I like to see a thread through because leaving is too easy. (The Great Escape)

...and I respect you immensely for that...you're light years ahead of my DH....

jealousy

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:13

He had admitted he never, ever feels jealousy, so sadly I don't think he can even imagine that, am I correct in my assumption YYZ?

No jealousy...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:28

This is true. I know my wife is beautiful and men find her attractive, of course, but I trust her and don't believe she would cheat. Beyond that, I try not to worry about things that are completely out of my control. As an ADDer, I have trouble keeping control of the things I should be in control of. I'm really kind of messed up when it comes to displaying emotions, other than the easy ones, like Happy or mad, most of the others, not so much.

My DH isn't as bad now as in

Submitted by SherriW13 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:46

My DH isn't as bad now as in our earlier years, but he still has some irrational jealousy...and I have never given him any reason not to trust me.

I agree with you... but-

Submitted by smilingagain on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:38

My non-ADHD husband does this to me frequently.

Are you sure this isn't more of a gender thing? I don't see researching a car purchase and then planning to pring it once all the research is done as an ADHD thing. I would NEVER do this. I don't have the attention, the interest, the patience... ha ha.

What makes this scenario an ADHD thing- is the fact that there is a back-story about cars and trust and was already an understanding that these things should be discussed as the whole topic was colored by past behaviour and patterns. That is where the mistake was.

Past car situations...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 11:58

Were usually about me, long before I knew about the ADD. Since then, I do talk to her when I think there is something to consider. I mistakenly thought enough time had passed that I could show her a real option for her, without her even stepping into a dealership (She hates going) and if it made sense and she liked it we could go from there.

This was a "Step Backwards" moment and I apologized for not talking to her first.

Thanks...

I see how that happened...

Submitted by smilingagain on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 12:11

Sometimes I get all excited and take off on one track and realize much later that not everyone is as delighted as I am in the direction I've headed. :) I hope you guys kiss and make up and this blows over soon.

FYI, that is depressing for

Submitted by SherriW13 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 13:38

FYI, that is depressing for anyone..."I get all excited and take off on one track and realize much later that not everyone is as delighted as I am in the direction I've headed" I would like to think that I try very hard to recognize this and not rain on my DH's parade when he's happily skipping along on his most current adventure because I am sure it hurts. I think this is about hurt more than anything else. When anyone truly feels they are doing something kind for someone else and the person reacts in a negative way, that really does something to the soul.

A few years back my DH decided to get his first tattoo. He knows that I am anti-tattoo...even though I have one, it is on my foot and easily hidden. I am OK with one..or two..but moderation is VERY important to me. It is just something I do NOT find attractive, at all. FF to now, he's got 4..one of which is HUGE and goes all the way down the side of his calf. I have made it clear, it is HIS body, but it is something I do NOT like. Now, he all of the sudden springs on me that he's getting another one...on his other leg...a big heart with my name in it. That makes it OK, right? (his first one was my name on his chest). I am sure, in his mind, it makes it OK in my mind...but it doesn't.

Not a tat fan either

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:52

No, I am in agreement with you, Sherri. I read into that as well. To me, that reads like a big F U , and the "putting your name on it "comes across like a sneaky little child.

*****SIDE NOTE***** I truly wish that those who do not "believe" in Adult ADHD could just come here and read this stuff. How can so many people be the same and NOT have a "like" condition?

For the record...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:04

I don't like Tats either! Why clutter up a beautiful design?!? (The human body)

NJTWINMOM...

"*****SIDE NOTE***** I truly wish that those who do not "believe" in Adult ADHD could just come here and read this stuff. How can so many people be the same and NOT have a "like" condition?"

I end up with all the joke medical conditions, like Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Sleep Apnea and ADD. My DW believs two of the three. My wrists have scars, I used to snore so bad she was about to kick me out of my room, but she really does not believe much about ADD. Oh well...

You cannot even begin to know

Submitted by SherriW13 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:41

You cannot even begin to know the conversations I have had with my DH, he has even gone so far as to let me know that his counselor (who claims to have ADHD too) disagrees with me on this or that (related to ADHD), over this very thing...how in the hell can all of us have such similar issues and problems...such common problems and reactions...but him vehemently insist that I am Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! to lump all of those with ADHD together. I am perfectly capable of separating him from those who are addicted to porn or who lose stuff all of the time...he isn't like that and isn't affected in that way...but it KILLS me to have him insist that I am wrong to find camaraderie with people here because there are a few things that aren't the same. I have even said "how can you claim to have ADHD, when doing so requires you have certain symptoms...but deny that you're like others with ADHD?" Drives me nuts.

The books explain it all...

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:52

When I point out classic ADD symptoms to my wife, she will tell me everyone feels like like that sometimes, including herself, but she does not have ADD. I try to explain that many symptoms are very common, but the combination and severity of the symptoms are what get an ADD diagnosis. I guess I'm not ADD because I'm pretty organized and rarely late for work, right!?!? ;) My wife IS ADD because she is not that organized and is always running late?!?! ;)

Your DH does not believe he has ADD, just some of the symptoms???

I truly don't understand the Non-Believers...

It's my impression that my

Submitted by PoisonIvy on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:06

It's my impression that my husband "uses" ADHD: he'll accept the diagnosis when doing so allows him to use it as an excuse for certain behavior; but he'll reject the diagnosis in circumstances in which accepting the diagnosis calls forth the obligation to do something and make changes.

To be expected

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:09

Sadly, a very common complaint from the non ADHD spouse. He/She only uses it when they are in "trouble'.

Thus far, mine accepts he has it, full blown 100%. Doesn't do the denial sometimes thing............yet anyway.

I don't think he was trying

Submitted by SherriW13 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:50

I don't think he was trying to do an F-U, he really doesn't seem to care anymore about what I feel about them. He wants my approval and wants me to like them, so I think it was more of a "how can I get another one and get her approval?" He isn't typically malicious, he will do things sometimes that I don't really support, but in the end I think he wants me to not dislike his tattoos. I really think he thought putting my name on it would make it OK with me...and that's what he wants.

To me...

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:13

I said, to me, that's how it would come across. If it doesn't to you, that's all the better :)

It's like a sneaky little kid though, in a sense. Tell him NOT to go in the neighbors yard and NOT to pick the flowers...BUT....if he shows up with a bouquet FOR YOU...you should somehow find it endearing....just my take on it.

Ok I'm the original poster

Submitted by Longhaul on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:47

Ok I'm the original poster here, can we get back to the sexual

issues? Lol gtg Add husband just threw fishing pole in làke, God help me. Lol

Absolutely!

Submitted by YYZ on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:54

I kept trying to Re-Rail your post, sorry about that ;)

Did you find his fishing pole?

Wish I had some real advice from you

Submitted by Aspen on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:19

But my ADD husband doesn't even notice the women who are looking his way much less think about looking back.

Sexual addiction is definitely NOT part and parcel with ADD and in fact many seem to have the opposite reaction. In my non scientific noticing of these posts and these questions here and elsewhere, I think it is another thing that has a LOT to do with whether or not the disagnosis includes the hyperactive component. Honestly those with inatttentive ADD seem to struggle just as much with having low drive as the hyperactives do with high.

My husband and I have a very good sex life, but I would probably just call us both regular drive......lol what do any of those words even mean?!?! If I idealize the situation, I think daily would be great. The reality of our lives? Daily is pretty much for vacation......and one of the reasons I love vacation so much :) 3 times a week requires some doing and focus on putting other things aside to make our sexual life a priority. Because of that, 3 times a week simply logistically isn't the norm for us.

Was that really what you asked? No LOL But I wanted you to understand where I am coming from since there is so much variation in ppl's definitions of drive and of addiction.

I think anyone who's daily life....ability to work, socialize, fulfill other needs of their partner........is affected by their need to have sex all the time has an issue. Is it addiction? I don't know if it is for everyone but I think it is for some. ADHD diagnosed people have higher incidents of addiction and for some the excitement of sex is the perfect storm of dopamine rush and excitement. ADHD-fueled sexual addiction should be helped by any med that helps mitigate the other symptoms of ADHD>

Other are complete monogamists. My husband is one of those.......does that have anything to do with the fact that he is inattentive with very little impulsivity? Maybe! I do know his drive is very affected by my attitude toward him. Before the diagnosis when we had a eyar of building resentment and anger, it seemed like our sex life took a real dive. I remember crying and asking why he wasn't finding me attractive anymore and he kept insisting that he did, but it sorta came out through many conversations that when it seemed like I was angry with him or when it didn't seem like I 'liked' him very much in the moment, it just spoiled any idea of sex. He wants the whole package or nothing at all. I know other husbands who couldn't care less how their wives feel........I would call that a problem. I know of husbands who say a wife who isn't willing to go 2-3 times a day is failing them..........I would call that a serious problem and an addiction.

I applaud your desire to manage your expectations. I think when it comes to the area of what is ok with each other when it comes to looking at other women, flirting with other women, etc the expectation that you never do anything to hurt your partner or make them feel 'less than' is completely doable.

Going off topic

Submitted by NJTWINMOM on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:36

It does happen here and there.

Take your post again and start a new thread. Sorry this conversation got really good.

Maybe a record Off-Topic Snowball

Submitted by YYZ on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:53

I cannot recall being involved in the number of posts per hour that we saw yesterday.

No visits to any car dealerships: Day 5

Back to you, Longhaul...

Submitted by Haps on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:45

I think the reaction to your posts only goes to show that we ALL (ADD and non) can get off track. I only wish that our spouses and significant others would read this and have a chuckle as well. I mean, c'mon - who doesn't like talking about sex?! Oh, right... those of us who find it utterly frustrating at times in our relationship. :-X

That said... I think my ADD guy (we're gay men) should have whip lash after turning his head the way he does. Killed me at first (insecurities mostly), and then I gave myself permission to check out other guys as well. I was positive that he's the guy I want to be physically intimate with, but what's wrong with admiring others? After the novelty has worn off for me, it didn't seem to do the same for him. I mark it up to a combination of his own insecurities and impulsivity.

Oddly enough, it's never been an issue that we've talked about. As gay guys, we've got some different "norms" than heteros do, and this hasn't been a battle that I've wanted to pick given everything else (bills, responsibility, employment) have been higher priorities for the past few, umm, YEARS! ;)

I'm hoping that his meds and therapy/coaching can help him with this. But, again, there are issues higher up on his list I think, so it might not be in the near future. We're separated, so I'm not really sure how it's shaking out for him, but seeing as how the bills aren't getting paid on time (Yes, they ARE getting paid - a reason to celebrate!), I'm assuming not much is changing that way.

That said, in a perfect world (i.e. this was a battle that was at the top of the list), I would LOVE to set up a queue with him that my insecurities are being poked and I threatened by his actions. I don't want to change him or his behavior, but this is one of those "needs" that I require being met in a relationship, and finding a happy medium (one that he can say "Oh, right! Yes, he's good looking, but I'm glad you're the one I'm with!") would work for me right now.

Do I think he's ever cheated? Physically, no. Emotionally, rough one. Knowing where we are in being able to accommodate emotional "depth", I highly doubt it. Still hocks me off that we can't talk about it, though.

FINALLY!! Thank you SO much

Submitted by Longhaul on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 14:23

FINALLY!! Thank you SO much Haps!

Here's what happened. I found out 4 months ago he has been fantasizing about other women since a month after we got married. He told me. He also has"taken this into his own hands" if you know what I mean. He told me the details of who he has done this with, past girlfriends, people around, etc. DETAILS. Yep, he told me details. He said whenever he sees a pretty girl he instantly "goes there". He is EXTREMELY impulsive in this area. He does it right in front of me (checks out other women) . As far as physical cheating, I don't know. I go back and forth. Yes,I do know he is massively disrespecting me.

It's like overnight he changed. Is this ADHD, am I too sensitive?

I am at a loss. I thought he was one thing (hyper focus) and then I get a psych eval (therapist recommended) that says he is extremely ADHD, antisocial, self defeating tendencies, etc etc etc.

Totally not sure even what is normal male behavior...I only have daughters. (I know, sounds dumb)

Confused....

Oh, this sounds so

Submitted by Haps on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 16:24

Oh, this sounds so familiar.

First, I've had the same reactions. I continue to go back and forth. I beat myself up. I blame him. Then, I realize that I can't change ANY of it. None. The only thing I can change is me. I realized that in order to take care of myself, I've got to DO something different. The gym is definitely helping. (If he finds me physically repulsive now, maybe being in better shape will help. While my motivation might have been off, *I'VE* never felt better about myself. Screw what he thinks! No pun intended.) I'm back to my college graduate weight and dangerous. I also realized that I neglected my spirit in trying to figure him/us out. My own 12-step program has really helped. While I don't believe my guy is an alcoholic, the notion that I was trying (as still slip up and do, honestly) to control him was crazy! Even a "normal" person (good luck finding them!) can't be controlled.

I did some research many months ago and realized that my sensitivity (oh, and there's plenty!) stems from my belief that anything anyone does is about ME! You had a bad day? Must be my fault. Don't like your hair today? I should do something so you do like your hair today. Bus ran over and killed your dog? Oh, shit - I'm sorry I was driving that bus! Sounds pretty messed up, hu? Their reactions (and ours) has more to do with what's going on inside our OWN heads - not any one else. If I get screamed at, then THEY must be in pain/upset/angry. I believe this is the point to which Melissa is speaking to in her book around the "Leaning Conversations". Take the emotional charge out of the conversation to be able to speak about things logically and objectively. If *I'm* just learning this (and I'm "normal", remember! ha!), then how could I expect my ADD guy to know?

Now, you're in a very lucky spot. Your hubby IS taking steps toward taking care of himself. You need to do the same thing. (Although, I'm sure we'll ALL still be on here learning as much as we can so we can control as much as possible and change as much as we can at the same time because we're just awesome like that!)

He got the diagnoses. He's seeing a T he trusts. Things often get worse before they get better. (Of course, if they did things MY way, everything would be find and dandy! Ha!) It takes 2 to make the relationship better as well, so we need to stay on our side of things and work on us.

Finally, you did hit a great point - he's disrespecting you. Good. You've got a boundary there. He's pushing a button in you that you're not comfy having pushed. Too many of us just keep the anger going and never do anything about it. I wish I had the strength to have stayed in the same physical space with have my boundaries broken all the time, but I needed to make a choice to take care of myself and leave for a bit. Hopefully it's not forever (::fingers crossed::), but knowing that I'm not getting kicked in the teeth as much has given me clarity to get on here and really understand what my other non-ADHD friends are up against and learn from their stories and support.

I'm NOT saying you should leave. That's a personal decision. I would recommend that you spend some time with your reaction and make a healthy boundary for you around it. (Note: Poking the offender with a pointy stick is NOT a healthy boundary. It's a reaction. Trust me here. ;>) Maybe it's going for a walk. Maybe it's calling a friend to talk about how it made you feel. Maybe it's sleeping in the guest room. We have TONS more options than we think we do. We just need a clear head to remember them and act.

Oh... REALLY finally here - The "guy" thing. I'm interested in someone else's opinion here. I would ask my guy to at least be a bit less obvious about checking out other guys. I check out other guys, yes, but I don't think I do it in a way that woudl threaten our relationship. If I was told I was doing so, I would definitely NOT want to do it, but I don't see myself with impulse control issues. (Only spending money, honestly, but that's another post.)

This is very hard for me to

Submitted by SherriW13 on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 13:43

This is very hard for me to put into an answer that will not sound crazy...but I will try.

No, I do not think he is addicted to sex.

Yes, I think the more untreated he is the more he craves attention...and if it comes from a female, all the better.

Yes, he has had improper (for a married man) relationships with other women during our marriage...and has cheated twice that I know of.

No, he does not look at other women...gawkingly...when we are together in public.

Yes, he is overly friendly to waitresses or any other female that crosses his path at times...but I think this is more about him wanting everyone to think he's just an amazing guy. To be fair, he is friendly to males too...but there is just something different.

No, I do not think his behavior is necessarily 100% impulsivity issues...more like a very low self esteem that seeks the approval of others in order to feel self worth.

His sex drive comes and goes...a lot of it depends on how well he is managing his ADHD. My sex drive is directly connected to how well he is managing his ADHD.

Recently, he wanted sex and I had been sick (throwing up) all afternoon. I dared tell him I was sick...and he behaved like a complete jerk for well over a week. I knew why he was behaving the way he was, but by the time things came to a head, he pretty much had it worked up in his head that I didn't support him and didn't care about his needs and said he was unhappy and was leaving. All ADHD related BS.

So, why do you stay with

Submitted by Longhaul on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 14:38

So, why do you stay with him? I don't mean that disrespectfully at all.

I just need to now what I need to prepare myself for. I need to really understand all this.

How in the world, with this, can non ADHDers stay with ADD/ADHDers if this is more of the norm?

I don't even know what to say...

The more untreated his ADHD

Submitted by SherriW13 on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 14:48

The more untreated his ADHD is, the worse these things are. As a matter of fact, the better controlled it is, these things are pretty much not a part of our lives. For many years, these things weren't issues...but then life happens, stress happens, and he starts to unravel. They are all part of a very destructive system of shitty coping skills he has developed over the years. He was diagnosed with ADHD in 2010, so until then I had no idea why things were going so very wrong, so very fast.

Bottom line, now he knows and is getting help. He sees a counselor every week, sees his psychiatrist every month (sometimes more often), and is currently trying different medications. He takes meds to help him with anxiety (non-narcotic) and takes a mild anti-depressant to help him sleep. Those two things have made a huge difference already. He also is focusing on (he assures me) his poor coping skills and his self-destructive tendencies with his counselor. So, for now, I stay.

Reading over all of that, I don't find it odd that anyone would ask me why I stay...so no offense taken. His mother passed away in 2009 and he spiraled completely out of control, we separated, he had an affair, started abusing alcohol and pills, and even after we reconciled he continued to (unbeknownst to me) abuse substances and spiral out of control. I was aware of the fact that he wasn't working and that he was drinking some...but I had no idea what the extent of things was. He hit rock bottom and is finally getting help. He is truly on his last, last chance. I don't expect perfection, but the cheating and friendships with other women and substance abuse is something he'll find out very quickly that he's lost it all if he chooses to do that again. I hope he believes me when I say so.

Mine is on an anti dep

Submitted by Longhaul on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 14:56

Mine is on an anti dep and ADHD meds too. We are just starting out. He can cut like a knife when he argues, I don't even stand a chance and I don't want too.

There needs to be a spa vacation place for us non ADHDers or something where we can go and recoup.

I am exhausted almost all the time just by his behavior.

How did he hide this from me for so long?

The future terrifies me. I have seen so many posts like yours.

I feel for you. Boy, do I ever. I see you as my possible future or present, he lies a lot so I am not even sure.

Add woman with a high sex drive

Submitted by Gopher on Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:22

Hi, it drives me crazy hearing that ADD Men have high sex drives, with me and my husband, its the opposite! He never wants sex it is always me, and we could go for months if it was his call to have sex. We have gone for months because I refuse to be the one asking. Especially after being rejected time and time again. Three days in a row is what I need to get it out of my system then I feel some what satisfied. I would have sex everyday if he would.

Please tell me there are other ladies out there with high sex drives. I started looking at porn online and got addicted within the week. I have quit but the thought hits me once in awhile. My husband thinks it is disgusting that I use a dildo and calls me a sicko for using it. Yet he will not have sex with me.

I told him I guess I will have to get a boyfriend so I can get laid.

Yup. Me, too. I'm the female half and have the high sex drive!

Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on Sat, 11/24/2012 - 21:19

I, too, would have sex daily if it were a possibility.

My husband will have sex with me but he hardly puts in any effort on my behalf (this is a change from years past), so it's on his terms and not what it could be.

Being ready to go almost 24-7 is an epic distraction in itself, never mind having ADHD! Maybe this is why I'm so stressed all the time (or at least why I'm not more relaxed)!

ADD Guy confirming Sex Drive

Submitted by YYZ on Sat, 11/24/2012 - 23:49

I'm still in the same boat regarding sex drive. I just thought I'd chime in on the subject again.

How are you ADHDMomof2?

Yeah, me too...

Submitted by Pbartender on Sun, 11/25/2012 - 09:06

I'm not so certain it's even about sex, per se... but touch and the intimate connection that touching creates. I'm very sensitive to touch, and I grew up in a big family where physical touch was common (7 kids and only 4 bedrooms, we often had to share bedrooms and even beds). So, for me, touching -- and especially touching in any intimate way -- is something I only share with those closest to me. I've never had sex with a woman other my my wife. And I've only kissed one other woman (not counting my mother, my daughter and other relatives).

I really like sex. I could have it every day and be perfectly happy. But what bothered me most wasn't NOT having sex. But making love to someone who wasn't making it back. there were nights when I'd set up a romantic evening, we'd send the kids to bed early, we cozy up and cuddle and talk for a while. She would be (seemingly) interested and cuddling back... And then when we progressed to making love, it was like a switch turned off. She would suddenly stop and just lay there... nothing... with her face turned away from me.

When she gave me the "I love you but..." spiel, she actually TOLD me that she thought I should go have sex with other women.

Some days, I would come home from work, ask her about her day, and move in to give her a hug and a kiss... It was like kissing a mannequin. Nothing at all.

My wife has been living in a separate bedroom for more than six months. The last time she touched me in any way was on Father's Day, when I asked her for a hug.

For me, that continuing rejection, has hurt more than anything else she'd ever done to me, because it is such a REAL and INTENTIONAL rejection of affection.

Pb.

Update

Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on Sun, 11/25/2012 - 21:04

Hi YYZ!

Not so great, but I'm still plugging away, as always. Going to see a nutritionist so I can take a more scientific approach to investigating possible food sensitivities and my ADHD. I have a new self-imposed bedtime (therapist asked me what the WORST symptom that affects other things, and I said "being late." It means I haven't slept enough (BAD!), barely get to work on time (BADDDDDDD!!!), don't have time to get set up properly (BADDDDDD!!!), and spend the rest of the day trying to catch up organizationally. As such, I have 90 minutes left and need to do a buttload o' work before that time! I just posted on gluten, so that post will also catch you up on where I am.

I'm glad you are still out there. Hope you are doing O.K! I can't log on except through my phone from Monday-Friday (Google Chrome: Stay Focusd (not misspelled, even though it is), so I might not be able to reply, but I can at least read your response. If you want to reply via my gluten post, go for it. We tend to de-rail topics a lot ;)!

ADHDMomof2

YYZ update

Submitted by YYZ on Sun, 11/25/2012 - 22:29

I'm sorry you are having a rough go at it these days. Interesting though... I'm typing this on Google Chrome from my new Galaxy S3 and I've been very sleep deprived for the last 2 months, because we became band chaperones this year. I've been averaging about 5 hours per night so I'm totally off of my walking regiment and my symptoms are the worst they have been in a while. Yuck... I tried to tell my DW that the chaperoning was too much to add, but got scolded for the suggestion. I was fully aware of this blowing up all of my structure... I have not been hear much lately, but check in on a few of you guys, even though I don't post much. DD#1 is now on Vyvanse and DD#2 needs to get her diagnosis. My sex drive is still there, so my post technically does not derail anything today :) The email option is available on my profile here if you want to knock some ideas off of me. I'll check out your other post in the mean time. Take care...

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