Synopsis of situation: I am a widow of 7 years. Significant Other (SO) is a widower of 2.25 years with AD/HD which has never been dx'd or treated. (It slowly dawned on me that this was the case, and has become clearer over time and from discussions with the boys' teachers and caretakers, reading the boys' various medical, school, psychological records - his late wife was aware and it was apparently a much-discussed issue among them).
SO has twin autistic sons, 18 years of age, both of whom have AD/HD issues, and a daughter, now 21, who has AD/HD. We met in March of 2013 and became engaged in October of 2013. I moved in with him in February of 2014, but had been staying here much of the time after we became engaged.
SO does have a successful business. When his wife was alive, she took over all of the bookkeeping and bill-paying duties, enabling him to stay afloat and take care of the business. Since her death, things have deteriorated greatly in that arena. Bills don't get paid in a timely manner, his billing of customers doesn't get done, and the piles of papers are staggering. He spends a lot of time apologizing to his customers for being late, lying to creditors ("I never got the bill!"), etc. He did try hiring two people to help - his DD and a family friend - neither of whom have worked out.
Now, don't get me wrong - there ARE a lot of crisis situations around here surrounding the boys, who can be verbally and physically aggressive... so some of his inability to be on time, etc. is very justified. I've been punched, kicked, bitten, gone after with a knife a couple of times - but the boys had VERY little structure and consistency in their lives before I was here. They have greatly improved - and SO has gotten over a lot of his denial about their behaviors, finally agreed that one of them needs to be on some pretty potent medication, etc. They now have schedules, they are no longer allowed to watch violent/inappropriate media or play violent video games, their media time is now an earned privilege. They are doing MUCH better socially and behaviorally, and the home is much more peaceful. SO was very resistant at first, saying he could not be as consistent as I was, even if he knew that it was the best thing for the boys - he came around eventually.
I've spent hundreds of hours filling out forms for them, taking them to appointments, meeting with people from the school, talking to their caretakers, therapists, doctors, etc., developing systems for them, taking care of them. I've gone to seminars, bought many books so I could learn more about autism and AD/HD and nonverbal learning disorders. I've paid to take classes.
Two weeks ago, SO dropped a bomb. We were planning to be married in September. He didn't want to marry me yet. His reasons were pretty vague - worries about finances, his life is just too chaotic and he has to find a group home for at least one of the boys, etc. Okay, so be it... but then he said I'd rushed him into this... at which point I took off the ring and gave it back.
A few days later, I'd been working on the boys' computer at SO's request, trying to figure out some Net Nanny issues. I discovered that he has been (at least since May) cruising a particular dating site. At first I thought it was one of the boys, or perhaps my son... but it took only one look at one of the profiles SO had been looking at to realize that it was him. I was FURIOUS. When I confronted him, he tried denying/lying, but finally admitted it. His crazy logic (?) was something about finances - but I think even he doesn't know why - I think it was an impulsive thing that turned into a compulsion.
Whatever. It got us in to see a therapist. She advised me/us not to make any rash decisions. I had been ready to just pretty much walk out, though I wanted very much to make sure SO was set up to get help and the boys would be prepared as well as I/we could get them prepared. That's the part that breaks my heart the most, I think - the boys.
The therapist fast-tracked SO into seeing an AD/HD therapist, whom he's made an appointment to see next week. He doesn't want me involved in the therapy.
I've been trying to UNDERSTAND all of this stuff he's saying. I've tried to ferret out his reasoning. He'll say something, I'll say, "So you're saying X", then he will say, "No, it's not like that" - again, maybe he doesn't even know why.
I've started writing things down that he says in these conversations - because I have some very serious decisions to make, a fixed income (sufficient to live on, certainly, but fixed)... and I do NOT like feeling like he has me over a barrel and I cannot leave.
Today he has said:
1. "It's too soon"
2. He doesn't want any more to "take care of"
3. Money worries; he wants to save for retirement
4. He "can't take more on"
5. "I need to have less responsibility in taking care of others"
6. "DD is launched, and the boys will be"
7. "I need to just take care of ME"
Last night, it was, "Who will take care of ME if something happens?"
To me, this all sounds like part midlife crisis, part AD/HD, part fears of the future.
I asked him, "If you were in my place, what would you think/do after hearing all of this?"
"Well, I'd have done some things differently. I'd offer to pay an electric bill. I'd buy a bag of groceries without being asked, so I didn't feel like a mooch."
I blew. I have offered REPEATEDLY to help with things and he has ALWAYS said no, he has no need of my money. I've done it anyway... bought a few groceries, bought him nice gifts, refused to let him help with paying for my gas as he offered, paid for entertainment and meals (nice places, expensive tickets etc.). He'd sometimes just transfer money into my checking account when I didn't even WANT him to.
He apologized but the damage is done. I think he really sees me as a "mooch" and I am NOT willing to stay here under those circumstances. Last week when he said he thinks I should pay for some of the expenses I immediately wrote him a check. I would never have had a problem doing so, but he refused to take anything - he'd say, "I have 30k in my checking account - I don't need your money!".
So "don't do anything rash" - well, I'm getting pretty worried that I am going to fall apart. I cannot stand the thought that he thinks I am taking advantage of him. I don't know it it is just stuff he's blurted out - I don't think so, because of all the other things he has been saying... I cannot STAND it. I was with my husband for 34 years and I was the major breadwinner. We had a good marriage, and were very much in love for the whole 34 years. We were still passionate and looking forward to retiring. It wasn't easy all of the time (he was bipolar) but I wouldn't trade a moment of it.
So yeah, I know what it's like to be a caretaker.
I can't figure out what SO is thinking or feeling exactly, because he will say something and then deny it, but to me it sounds like it's something that yeah, HE needs to get figured out ON HIS OWN - and until he does, he has no business being in a relationship.
HELP! Am I seeing this wrong?
Short answer: yes, he needs
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Short answer: yes, he needs to figure things out. You're a very good person. I think you need some distance from this person until he does figure things out.
I sort of highjacked this
Submitted by dvance on
I sort of highjacked this thread and I didn't mean to--icefishing needs to get the support she came here for too. My lousy experience being married for 19 years to an ADHD person is if he is backing away, take that seriously. Pay close attention. If you cajole him, nag him, beg him, whatever him and he ends up marrying you to make you happy, it will turn to resentment so fast your head will spin and good luck recovering from that. My DH certainly wanted to be married, but he balks at virtually every adult, responsible piece that goes along with that. Walk away while you still can. it's not going to go well.
ADHD and baggage
Submitted by Smokey on
Hi Icefishinglady,
I know what you mean about trying to simply understand what he's saying, just get a reasoning going behind all the words. It's almost like they panic and say something that seems to make sense just to hang in there with the conversation, which seems really important but what is going on? So they say something but can't really remember what it was, much less back it up with logic. This at least is my attempt at empathy for an ADHD partner.
My BF's communication gets like this when he's in "crisis-mode" (my also has major depressive disorder). He also starts seeking out the attention of other women as a sort of "band-aid." It sounds like you help him out a lot with his kids and probably in a lot of other ways as well, so online dating doesn't seem like a logical option. It's the same in my situation -- I support my BF in a lot of ways, yet he saw getting rid of me as some sort of solution to feeling better. (He has since realized how silly all of this is -- it was a few years ago.) I'm not sure why, but I think it has to do with seeking stimulation or really just change of any kind.
It sounds like your SO has been in "crisis mode" for a while, perhaps since the death of his spouse? Twin adult autistic sons and a running a business alone would be challenging for anyone, not to mention someone with untreated ADHD. If you're confused, it's probably because he is very, very confused. Calling you a "mooch" is kind of like making up a story, any story, to help see things more clearly, even if the way he sees things is completely untrue. (Does this make any sense? It's hard to describe these types of things.) Long story short, it's easier to blame you than it is to try to untangle a very complicated mess that eventually leads back to him.
I hope my perspective on things helps or at least clears a few things up....it sounds like you're a really caring person and a great caretaker, but don't feel like you have to stick with your SO if your instincts are telling you to get out. He has a lot of baggage and years of work to do, which at this point he may or may not choose to tackle.
Good luck to you!
Rather than believing what he
Submitted by copingSAH on
Rather than believing what he's saying -- his problem could be he feels overwhelmed when he has to multi-task on things that are not initiated by him. So when he's not in control, he may lash out at you to put you on unstable footing -- you might start to second guess yourself, or even believe that's what he really feels. He might be feeling shaky about another responsibility (marriage) and the first instinct is to blame and deflect. I have a feeling his departed wife was there to help keep the finances rolling and probably all she could do to keep them afloat.
For example, my ADD spouse pursued me like no other man -- swept off my feet -- that we were engaged within 3 months of meeting each other. Then after that, he would not discuss marriage plans for two years. If I had known better, he had no plans for marriage and was resentful on and off when we did get married. It was as if I made it worse for him. Then he jumped into buying a house, which he felt was the thing to do. So after marriage, he took on another major responsibility. Things between us were definitely changed after marriage & home ownership. It seemed, like the house, I was another thing in his life that needed to be managed under the weight of ADD.
I am a stay home mother with no other income other than what my spouse remembers to give me. My spouse will not go anywhere I suggest, unless I can pay for it (which of course is not possible most of the time). I had some gift cards saved up. I wanted to have the whole family go out and have a meal. Nothing fancy, just nice to go out and be together. So dining out happened not once, but twice over the course of the weekend. It was lovely. Spouse even chipped in for drinks/appetizer. But by the end of the weekend, he was upset that I has "all this money" from my family and never once bought him a gift with the money -
- so he was calling me a mooch and ungrateful too!! So utterly annoying.
I felt depressed but I also let it go after a day or two... it's the ADD talking.... he was feeling overwhelmed at some point and just wanting to keep me in line... I think the ADD has some very particular expectations of how their spouse, their career, their friends fit into their world. It's like each person or job is a "slice of pie", they are all supposed to fit into the WHOLE pie precisely. I was probably doing things out of his comfort zone, I know he likes to have control and uses micro-managing behaviors to keep me and the kids in line. I was aware too, that during that weekend, we were in the process of obtaining a much-needed big ticket appliance... so this other finance was certainly was weighing on his mind and caused the lashing out.
I hope this makes some sense; it is so hard to condense such deep realities into a few short paragraphs... it seems the ADD mind is already in a precarious position, they're just holding everything in place the only way they know how... I don't think they will ever experience a long contentment or calmness... they're struggling with their own wiring. And most of the time it has very little to do with the other partner.
Coping, I think you're right.
Submitted by Standing on
Very powerful observations
Submitted by NLKohlenberger on
You've all made some very powerful observations here. There is something to the understanding that overwhelm can be the driver of the ADHDer. I know for myself, as both having ADHD, and being the "non-ADHD" partner, overwhelm has had it's impact on both myself and my husband. I remember before I was unmedicated, I would get overwhelmed often, and then... watch out...I could say things without thinking how they would impact my partner, and think thoughts that when analyzed, would just seem crazy. I can look back and know that now, but at the time, I had no idea what I was doing and saying, and the impact they were having on the other person. I've had to forgive myself quite a bit for some of my words from the past. I'm certainly not proud of them. And I know being overwhelmed by what I thought the world, and my partner, were asking of me was the driver of those impulsive words and actions.
I'm not saying that anyone needs to put up with poor behavior. That is everyone's individual choice regarding how much they can deal with. Going on a dating site when you're in a committed relationship is not admirable behavior. But if he never took it further than viewing profiles, maybe it can be forgiven. I think the thing that you are hearing more of, Icefishinglady, is a man who does feel overwhelmed, and is acting out from that place. But he is also telling you outright that he is not ready for the kind of commitment you may want and deserve, after all of the energy and love you have put into this relationship. So, if you are not wanting to see it through until he can get into a better mental space, that is certainly your choice. Sounds like he is willing to see a counselor who has a specialty in ADHD. I would hope that can help him sort out his feelings and come to some kind of understanding of what is just his stress talking, and what he really wants. Considering what it sounds like you have done to straighten out his family, he may feel very insecure in relationship to your capabilities. His self-esteem may be hurting here. That will sometimes cause a man to back off, and even sometimes look elsewhere. It is certainly not your fault. It's just something inside of him that doesn't feel very good about himself.
So, you can decide to give it some time to see if the counseling does him some good, or you can decide that he's not in a good place for the kind of relationship you need right now. I always look at it from the perspective of, how much love is there, and if it is enough to sustain you? Again, only you can decide that. ADHD will always be part of the equation, and some will tell you to run for the hills. I, for one, made the decision that the love was great enough that I would learn to work with what was in front of me to the best of my ability, one day at a time.
I wish you the best.
Hi Nancie...
Submitted by dvance on
I have read a lot of your posts here, but I have not read your book because frankly the title itself is a joke. There is no Thriving with ADHD. There is the ADHD person doing whatever they please for as long as it in interesting and sparkly and the non-ADHD person cleaning up the mess. After 20 wasted years I am convinced that ADHD folks are perpetual children with shockingly bad judgement who take nothing seriously and have not a care in the world for the consequences of their actions. Two nights ago my ADHD DH didn't come home at all. Why? Well, he is building a tree house for the son of a friend of ours (she is single) and he worked until 1am (in the backyard mind you--how is that possible with neighbors??) and then he made the two of them a pitcher of margaritas and they sat on the deck until 3:20am and then he was too drunk to drive home so he crashed--fully clothed, dirty from the day working, in her bed. And no one let me know. And I had to call him at 6am to find this out. And you know what he's mad about?? That I didn't call earlier to see where he was. Okay, excuse my crassness but WTF??? THAT is what you're upset about??? How about how totally inappropriate it was to be drinking at 1am (forget the meds he's on) with another woman and then sleep at her house and not let your wife know. He actually said he did the responsible thing by not driving but if I am that upset, next time (NEXT TIME?!?!?!?) he will just try to drive and we'll see what happens. Okay, seriously?? What are you, twelve?? That story is the perfect illustration of the ADHD mindset--he did whatever was fun in the moment--I'm sure margs on the deck with an attractive lady who thinks he's amazing (she doesn't see all the crazy that I see) was really fun. And that's as far as the thought process went. Not maybe my WIFE will worry, not what does this look like, not maybe I shouldn't be drinking on a work night at 1am at another woman's house alone. And now he is pissy because he was called out on his immature hurtful behavior. And you know what the kicker is? Things have been getting worse here for the past two years and this may have be the straw for me. This may be the thing that gets him thrown out and slapped with divorce papers. I may be done. I hope those were some good margaritas to cost him his marriage and his cleaner-upper. Maybe she can take over...
This is just one example of his short sighted and irresponsible behavior--I could write a book too, but it wouldn't be called Thriving. It would be called RUN don't walk away from an ADHD person--it's not worth it. They don't change, why should they? They can't hold a thought in their heads long enough to feel any remorse. Whatever it is happens and then is done--poof--on to the next shiny thing!!! And the people around them suffer whiplash and pick up the pieces and get called controlling when they do.
"And you know what he's mad
Submitted by Standing on
"And you know what he's mad about?? That I didn't call earlier to see where he was. "
Dvance, I have gotten that response from my husband when I've commented that he's stayed out of contact, with no communication, for extended periods. And when I've remarked that he does not ask me about some event I've attended, or whatever, or expressed any interest in discussing it, he will say, "I would think that you would come home and tell me about it"... so once again, it's my fault that he couldn't care less about my experiences. I am held responsible for his behavior at every turn. "Did you even think to call me and find out if maybe I was lying by the side of the road somewhere?" Now I simply don't ask and I think he likes it that way. He has taught me not to hold him accountable. Most recently, as I tried to rebuild some base of communication, he just lies to my face. When I catch him in a lie, and I tell him that I cannot believe a word he says, his response is: "I can't change your mind if it's already made up. I can't help the way you think." Translated, to me that means, if I won't allow him to re-write reality, and if I won't go along with whatever picture of himself he chooses to see, then that's my fault. I really think this man is a complete narcissist.
Maybe the help-books are written for those with a milder form of disruption in their lives. I can't build a life with someone who is determined to remain in a fantasy.
OMG I get almost the same
Submitted by dvance on
OMG I get almost the same phrase--"it doesn't matter what I say, your mind is already made up." Do they all get manuals or something??
Stock responses
Submitted by Standing on
Yes, I think there's a manual, but I don't think it is necessarily add or adhd. I suspect that it's the handbook of individuals who do not have empathy and do not care to recognize a connection between their own behavior and the impact of that behavior others around them. Faulty wiring, or chemical imbalance, or brain trauma aside... I am opting for the Character Flaw theory behind it all.
When I read posts from other forum members who have add/adhd and actively seek out help, I am convinced. Relating closely to someone with this condition does not have to be soul-numbingly traumatic. Why do some people with add/adhd take a proactive approach toward treatment and others refuse to reach for change? I think the simple answer is: because they care. I like simple. It works for me.
When my husband is getting his ego stroked by acting the part of guru in his business, I am invisible. He is satisfied (unless I attempt to confront an issue, in which case he attacks me for not being affectionate and loving).
When he began his business and felt so much insecurity about it, he latched onto a few fawning female fans to feed his ego. When I, based on his actual history and factual pattern of behavior, expressed concern about his unilateral decision to launch this new business, I was raked over the coals for not being supportive. ALL of these other people were behind him. Ohhhh woe was him, not having anyone with whom to share his grand dream.
So - those are my two options with him, I've concluded. I can be invisible or I can be the villain.
Neither is acceptable to me.
I would rather be alone and be irrelevant.
Now I've carved a boundary in stone. I could live with all the annoying, disruptive, miscellaneous of add. I will not live with a liar. He told our counselor this week that he would not take any medications for the entire week, until our next appointment. He volunteered that pledge to the counselor, looked him in the eye, and shook his hand..Half a day later, he broke his promise and rationalized it away. The next morning, he broke it again and lied about it again, then acted like nothing was wrong (grabbed my behind as he walked by me at work, strutted around the office whistling, etc) I used to think... ohhh, he can't help it; he needs me to hold it all together. No. He doesn't need me, he needs to face himself.
Yesterday I spoke on the phone with the counselor, in front of husband, and told him that I will see him alone next time, that I see no point in having husband there, since he has proven himself to be a liar. I told the counselor that I would rather be divorced than to deal with this. Husband's reaction? He disappeared for an hour or two and says he visited with a pal who runs a gym, and he's going to spend some time there getting into shape. yeah. right. I asked him months ago if that was something we could do together, to help build something in common. I've asked to walk together regularly. I won't ask any more. Even when he finally made a move to take a step in the right direction, I am still invisible. I don't know whether he even remembers that this is something I wanted us to do together. Or maybe he wants to get into shape for the next woman who will be caught in his web. What's the difference?
Dvance, You know in your heart
Submitted by jennalemon on
(Edited 8/2/14: changed bf to dh in this edited version.)
Dvance, You know in your heart what you WANT to do. You know in your head what you SHOULD do. Just like me. These guys (NOT ALL ADDers, but ours) do not deserve an explanation, apology, rationality. They deserve to be left alone like their actions are telling us they want. The question for you and me is, "Why do I stay in this?" We have a long list of rationalizations, excuses and reasons BUT we are going loony because we do not give ourselves the benefit of the doubt for some class and dignity. We blame everything on ourselves and think of ourselves as unloving when in fact we have been compromising and sacrificing for the good of the family and the relationship for way too long. Our partners (?) do not have the same capacity for shame, guilt, pride, partnership, regret, introversion that we do. They live in a 2D world of their own where they manufacture the memories and the facts and have no impetus to plan for the future believing that their "personality" will win them a place in other peoples hearts and bank accounts.
You have my permission to leave. Permission based on 40 years of living the very close mirror of your life.
Here is what you can do: Right now. This minute. Don't give yourself another SECOND of holding back and fear.
Where (and how) can you live? That is the question. How in the world do you upset the home life now for the good of the distant future? How to afford it? Where? How? My dear. That is what to work on. You deserve self respect and self acceptance. GET OUT OF THIS SITUATION AS QUICK AS YOU CAN. You don't deserve to be so invisible to two people who you believe care about you. I wish we lived in proximity so we could help each other out. I am in a similar quandary....a lack of resources, support, energy and guts.
The memory of that one night of secretive actions by your "friend" and your husband will haunt a marriage forever. It will NEVER go away in your mind. I have these memories and suspicions piled in my head from 40 years of marriage. You may forgive but you won't forget. ...nor should you. You don't want to have HATE and RESENTMENT be a part of your future life. He, of course, will erase every bad thing he ever did and call you crazy in the future for remembering things wrong. Write the facts down so you don't "forget and forgive" too much.
Your husband obviously believes in "open marriage". Your eyes have been opened by his actions that night. Can you live with that?
I am sorry you are going through this especially with children in the picture. I know how difficult it is. Please don't just stuff it. That is what I did. It is not the right choice. You can manage your emotions but don't stuff the situation in a corner and not address the issues and get some satisfaction.
Jennalemon, it is horrific
Submitted by Standing on
Dvance's situation is horrific and too much to bear, I agree. It is extreme. I agree with everything you wrote, except - to clarify -
I think Dvance married to the man and the children are theirs together.
I think that Icefishinglady was engaged until recently, when her significant other decided it was too soon.
Either way, it is heartbreaking and I believe that the only possibility for change, if there is to be a change, is if severe consequences are a result,
Maybe she does not have to leave her home, though. I like what c ur self's idea of changing the locks. Let him leave!
Hello again! Yes, it's me in
Submitted by dvance on
Hello again! Yes, it's me in the horrific situation. I have been married to this man for 19 years and our two boys are 15 and 13. In another post I told about the events of two years ago--DH told a counselor we were seeing for our son's Asperger's that he had a suicide plan, so that landed him in the inpatient psych ward for three weeks, after which he came home for two weeks and then moved out--I literally came home from work to his keys and garage clicker on the table. No nothing to me or the boys. He was gone for almost six months. He has complex PTSD and depression from childhood abuse, although two years ago when he had his breakdown was the first I had heard of any of the abuse--it was physical and sexual from what he remembers. While I do believe him that is occurred, I'm not necessarily happy with how he has handled it since. He has been on tons of meds, gradually weaned off to only Zoloft and something to sleep--I can't think of the name--because of horrible nightmares about the abuse. He has seen the same counselor since he got out of the hospital, but I HATE the guy. I don't think he has helped at all, in fact I think he has given DH MORE permission to act selfishly. DH tells me his shrink tells him that he has to take care of himself FIRST and if other people's (including my) feelings get hurt, that's too bad. He has to take care of himself since it was never done for him. Now, I understand the whole concept of taking care of yourself so you can be a good family member, no one likes a martyr, but my god. Pretty sure this is NOT what the counselor meant. DH was diagnosed with ADHD years ago--waaaaay before the abuse stuff surfaced. In the 19 years since we've been married, he has bought a car without my knowledge, given our credit card to a friend who ran up $400 worth of charges that DH then claimed to have no knowledge of, overdrawn our account more times than I can count, been stationed out of state (Air Force), deployed for 6 months, had numerous surgeries for health issues and broken bones that were results of accidents while playing sports-one year he was hospitalized three times inside of 6 months, the end result being an emergency surgery, been fired from two jobs in the past three years. Now, clearly CLEARLY the health stuff is unrelated to the ADHD or any other mental illness, just trying to establish that he has been a big project to manage for as long as we have been married. I am in NO WAY trying to be dismissive or flip about mental illness or disorders or anything, it's just beyond the call of duty at this point. His mom and dad are dead, siblings live out of state and are useless--it's all me, all the time. Since he's been home in the past two years, if I ask him why he is doing something a certain way (like, a hard way instead of an easy straightforward way), the answer I get is "I'm an adult, I can do whatever I want" so right there in a nutshell is how he is living. The way he talks about himself and his childhood-he really feels wronged by the world, like the world owes him something, like he has worked hard enough for long enough, he should be able to take it easy now (he's 45 with only a high school education). While I cannot pretend to know what that abuse was like for him, that cannot be the driving force behind an adult life, especially after two years of therapy. He is just absolutely beside himself that he was robbed of a decent childhood. Every job he's lost, it's because he knew best and the powers that be don't want to hear the truth from him, he's the ONLY person that knows the company/can do his job/knew what was going on/can save the company. Funny thing is, the last two companies were large, well known and well respected property management firms that were well established before he arrived and by all accounts appear to still be thriving despite his absence. He has not seen our kids in weeks--he leaves before we get up and gets home long after they are in bed, yet he has made this gorgeous tree house paradise for someone else's kid. Yes, it's a paying job that he was hired to do, but that's hard for me to reconcile. He has been doing side jobs since January, when he got fired the last time and he tells anyone who will listen that he's never been happier, that he's so happy to be his own boss and not take orders from idiots. Well, fair enough--that's a reason plenty of people are in business for themselves, but it cannot be at the expense of your family. Or maybe it can--maybe work is all he can handle.
In any case, I'm pretty done. The bad news is we cannot afford two rents, so he's going to have to live here until we make a plan.
thanks for all the support and feedback. the last two years have taught me a lot and I am really okay--I just can't live like this any more--it's not me who's crazy here!!!!
dv
Dvance, you have certainly had your hands full.
Submitted by Standing on
I truly cannot imagine the stress of being in the midst of so much turmoil for so long.
Your husband sounds like a more extreme version of mine and i have the sense that they are both trying to reinvent themselves. Being the person who knows who he really is ... well, he makes that an impossible position in which to stand. I often feel like he wants me to have amnesia, so that he can convince me this fantasy image he has of himself is authentic.
dvance: being their own boss
Submitted by dedelight4 on
" he's so happy to be his own boss and not take orders from idiots. Well, fair enough--that's a reason plenty of people are in business for themselves, but it cannot be at the expense of your family. Or maybe it can--maybe work is all he can handle."
My DH has said the same thing about taking orders from "idiots", or working for "morons", and that working for "yourself" is the ONLY way to do business. It was interesting to learn that in the ADHD books, many, many people with ADHD work for themselves, (own business) because they find it too difficult to work for other people. But, they don't or won't acknowledge that fact. (don't know which) The trouble is, many of these businesses fail, or do so poorly that it causes more problems for themselves and their families. And, like you said....WORK CAN'T be at the EXPENSE of your FAMILY. My husband has spent every waking minute, hour, day, week and year.....WORKING.....just by SHEER HOURS ALONE....he should be a gazillionaire right now. He totally qualifies as a workaholic, but doesn't get further "ahead" in his work.(meaning promotions, money, acknowledgement) We live paycheck to paycheck, day to day, as I've watched him sabotage many things he's done, especially business decisions, and business "ideas".
I think work is where he "fits in", and feels like he's he's "okay" there. Trying to handle a wife, children, church, social events, etc. seems to be way too much on top of his work. EVERYTHING IN OUR LIVES HAS TAKEN SECOND PLACE TO WORK. We've been married 31 years and never ONCE have we had a vacation. (just the two of us) How's THAT for crazy? He would take me along on some of his business trips and call them "our vacations". (which they never were, they were HIS business trips) Now he feels bad that we never took a vacation, but all the years are GONE now, and he feels bad that he spent all that time "working", when he knows a fair chunk of the hours involved "busy work" that wasn't NEEDED for ANY job.
Plus, my health is not good now, and just going to the grocery store is exhausting. Taking a trip would be almost impossible for me due to living in chronic back/neck/leg pain.
Also: Whenever we have an argument or a disagreement about something (anything).....DH starts YELLING and says: "I have to work NON-STOP around here to put a roof over YOUR heads and FOOD on the table". It's like he thinks that him WORKING is the ONLY thing he has to do. In his mind, nobody else does anything, and HE'S the only one who does anything and everything........which just ISN'T TRUE. He does do a lot of cooking the past year, but only because he cooks the MEAT. (he eats meat and almost nothing else) It's hard to be a "cook", when your spouse only eats ONE thing. The rest of us can't EAT that much meat, or we get sick. (especially me) Anyway, DH is always upset about the fact that he HAS TO WORK SO MUCH, I've never TOLD him he had to work like that. I've tried to encourage him to do other things, but it's always met with hostility and negativity
In all the years past, I did all the cleaning, all the cooking, all the shopping, all the yard work, PLUS, I worked at several different jobs outside the house. (I'm a musician) At one time I was playing for 6 different groups at the SAME TIME, on top of doing all the other things. Plus, I raised our two children, did ALL their running, schoolwork, extra cirricular stuff, doctor appointments, etc. I didn't get any thanks or praise from him for all the work I did, ON TOP of all the ADHD stuff I was putting up with FROM HIM......But, NOooooooooooooooooooo...HE DOES ALL THE WORK....I'm am SO TIRED of this type of thinking. And I CAN'T GET IT THROUGH TO HIM, THAT IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT HIM....................ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH. What to do???????
dedelight, same here, about busywork
Submitted by Standing on
oh yes, it's the same thing
Submitted by dvance on
oh yes, it's the same thing here. the last two jobs (the ones he was fired from) he worked 90 million hours in a week--everything was the biggest project EVER and he was the ONLY person in the company who could handle it. how can someone believe that????? I have a friend whose husband is a highly skilled pediatric cardiac surgeon--people literally bring their kids from other states for him to operate. now THAT is a person who can truly say things would fall apart without him. my DH was a facilities manager for a property company--getting apartments ready for new tennants, fixing the AC in a big high rise, pouring concrete for a new parking lot, that kind of thing. irreplaceable?? I think not. now, it's good to be good at your job and proud of doing your job well, no matter what it is, but to believe you are TRULY the only person capable of doing that job--come on. he has now burned so many bridges that I think it is very unlikely he will find another job in the industry--and the last one paid him almost six figures. that's not going to happen again.
so this morning it was a big huge whopping fight about him staying at that other lady's house--he worked until 1am. Seriously-what handy man have you ever met that works at someone else's house until 1am--even if they're a friend?? and then he made the two of them margaritas--that's why he couldn't drive home. I asked him WHO works outside where there are neighbors until 1am??? he HAD to get the treehouse done by today for a party at that lady's house. well, perhaps the tree house won't be totally finished for the party or perhaps it shouldn't be as elaborate as he made it. he yelled at me that in the past year I have not come home until 3am on "at least 6 ocassions". Can I tell you--this is simply not the case--I am a mom and a teacher. during the school year my alarm goes off at 5am to get oldest son to 6am swim practice and get the other child and myself out the door by 7:15 so I can get him to before school care and me to work by 7:45. I have never in my life been out until 3am. I asked him when or what I was doing and with who and he named a friend I do indeed go out to dinner with about twice a month, but here's what's funny--she runs a company in the next state over from us and has an hour commute in the morning and so she gets up at 4:30 every morning--we go out early and she is home by 7pm so she can get a good night's sleep. the only thing I can think of that even remotely comes close is I have a subscription to the opera with another friend and those are late nights, but like midnight, not 3am and I am at the opera for gods sake, not drinking with another man and then sleeping in his bed.
what do you even say back to that kind of nonsense? he had a lead on a job, but it turns out a former boss of his (that didn't like him) is now at this other company so he figured they wouldn't be calling him. he's probably right, so I put it out of my head and never mentioned it again. he tells me I have asked about it "at least 6 times". I have not, but again, what do you say???
truly exhausting
Fresh Air and Prayer helps my perspective...
Submitted by c ur self on
But, NOooooooooooooooooooo...HE DOES ALL THE WORK....I'm am SO TIRED of this type of thinking. And I CAN'T GET IT THROUGH TO HIM, THAT IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT HIM....................ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH. What to do???????
Lets see...What would you share with me about this time? c-ur-self...you need peace! You really need to detach yourself from HER behavior, You are allowing it to take a huge tole on you emotionally...You are not responsible for the way she lives her life, nor can you do anything about it. But, the good news is you can do something about your own;)....I think you might have shared something like that with me...
c ur self: yes, you're right
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thank you c ur self. I enjoy your posts, with their uniqueness and value. I apologize for my posts of late, being so angry. It's been so many years, and so long in dealing with ADHD, that I "feel" worn out. (as stated before) I DO know, my husband has more than ADHD going on, and since I've had to cancel 2 counseling appointments already, it's hard to still believe that he really "wants" help. (even though he said he did, and said to MAKE the appointments) So, I'm not impressed with his desire to "get help" yet.
It has become so much, and even though I know it in my HEAD, sometimes my HEART still aches. I know you understand this...such as: WHEN.....he/she took the same vows before God....but then they don't follow through with them......................WHEN...he/she was one person BEFORE the wedding, but then after hyperfocus, became ANOTHER person. WHEN..........he/she says they want love and understanding.....................but then they do anything and everything to cause upheaval in every direction. AND...................WHEN.....he/she does "so little" to ADD to the relationship, and yet they want so much more given to them.
How much can we TAKE.....as spouses? Even CARETAKERS of very ill people get sick, and quite often the caretakers DIE before the patient does, because they get so worn out from BEING the caretaker. On that note: I was a caretaker also, first to my own mother, for 11 years, when she became an invalid.....and then to HIS mother....who lived with us after she got Alzhiemer's. I think the last straw for me is that my husband and I have a parent/child relationship. But, instead of ME being the parent and HIM the child,(which usually happens in the ADHD marriage) it's the reverse. Since he makes the majority of the money and pays the bills, he lords is over me as the "money person". It's degrading, demeaning and disrespectful. I would walk out today if I had any decent income, but my disability isn't even enough for a single rent payment.
Maybe when you read my posts, you may think I'm a horrible, terrible person to live with, but I NEVER used to think this way, and I"m NOT this way. I've BECOME this way, from so many years of neglect and put-downs and damage, and trying to make sense of total nonsense. It's time to heal.
Dedelight, It's so important to care of yourself
Submitted by NLKohlenberger on
Dedelight4,
I really hear in what you have written here how much you have done to take care of other people. Sounds like a lot of your life has been about that. Being a caretaker can certainly take its toll, and my sense is, it has taken its toll on you. You deserve to be commended for all of that hard work. And I hear how disrespectful and demeaning your husband can be. My heart truly goes out to you.
I wonder if you have thought about attending those counseling sessions on your own, if he doesn't set his mind on going. I know they were set up so you could go with you husband, and you certainly feel like he needs the help, but based on what I read from you here on the forum, you could certainly use some extra support yourself. I really encourage you to think about taking some of those sessions for yourself so that you have someone to share all of this with who can give you feedback, and help you decide what is best for you to move your life forwards.
I have tremendous compassion for you, and know that you are put down enough by your husband. I support you to not do it to yourself.
Thank you Nancie
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Nancie, I burst into tears while reading your kind post. It isn't very often I get to hear gentle, kind and encouraging words like the ones you just wrote. I AM going to take your advice and go to therapy, even if my husband won't go. I can't go this way on my own any longer. This is the ONLY outlet I've gone to, to share my words of desperation...and it's been therapeutic to read my own words written down......WITH....others commenting. .And, also....saying heartfelt thanks to ALL who write here. I learn so much from everyone, and appreciate those who listen to me as well. Thank you especially, (and Melissa) for ALL your insight and knowledge. I apologize if anything I've said, in anyway has been offensive to you or anyone else, (since you have ADHD as well) I do not mean to paint everyone with the same brush. (I know my husband has more than ADHD going on) I admire you and JJ. and all the others who work so hard on your ADHD, to bring your families closer together, and be examples to show what "working together in love" can accomplish.
Naw, I don't think you are horrible...I think you are tired ;)
Submitted by c ur self on
I think you've tried to do the best you know how for a long, long time now, and you're very very tired...Let's say under not idea circumstance's;)...And I know it's almost impossible to take your eye's off it (the jaw dropping behaviors) long enough to refocus on your own heart...So God can heal u....My marriage would have probably been over with, If it wasn't for bother's in Christ, supporting me and speaking truth to me...They may not have known what it was like to live with what I was living with...But, it was obvious to see the effects it was having on me, BECAUSE I COULDN'T CHANGE IT ;)...Have you every wanted to reach through the computer...And just HUG the fire out of someone and tell them God loves them.? ;)...He does you know...I pray for my friends on this forum.
So sorry you are dealing with such behavior....
Submitted by c ur self on
( Two nights ago my ADHD DH didn't come home at all. Why? Well, he is building a tree house for the son of a friend of ours (she is single) and he worked until 1am (in the backyard mind you--how is that possible with neighbors??) and then he made the two of them a pitcher of margaritas and they sat on the deck until 3:20 am and then he was too drunk to drive home so he crashed--fully clothed, dirty from the day working, in her bed. And no one let me know. And I had to call him at 6am to find this out. And you know what he's mad about?? ) So, you have such a nice single friend there...lol...I tell you what he would be mad about if I was a women and he was my husband...The fire in the front yard with all his clothes in it...And probably the new locks, restraining order, and Divorce papers.....lol, he would have something to really be concerned about....
With friends like those...
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
...you know the rest.
That person would be my friend no longer. I wonder what she told her son in the morning...
I would probably have a similarly rational response ;). No ADHD required, either.
It is possible to 'Thrive'
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
dvance,
I don't blame you for being mad. I would be freakin' furious if A) my husband helped an attractive single woman build her child a treehouse while B) drinking, and C) did not come home because he was so drunk. He also D) stayed in HER BED??? Where did she stay? WTF????? And she is your friend, too? What did she have to say about that whole event? Is she embarrassed? Are you going to say something to her?
Wondering: does he drink a lot? Because then you are talking about more than one issue. ADHD is challenging enough without substance abuse issues.
I don't believe a relationship with a person with ADHD is impossible. I think a relationship with a person with bad enough ADHD who refuses to take responsibility approaches that, though.
Finally, I have read both ADHD marriage books and they have helped me in my marriage-tremendously. I have ADHD, and I have it quite badly! However, I have been the one to initiate every stage of treatment: diagnosis, medication, medication management, cognitive-behavioral therapy, going gluten free almost two years ago, seeing a Naturopathic Doctor, researching supplements, getting igG and igA allergy testing and removing even more foods from my diet, reading about ADHD-friendly strategies, exercising, and so on. I work my ass off, and I certainly do NOT belong in the same category as your husband and cannot imagine doing what he did. EVER. Even with my super-strength ADHD. There are others on this site (ellamenno, smilingagain, and long ago YYZ), who are right there with me. I know people with ADHD who are extremely hard workers who really care.
But I don't know your husband, so I don't know if his most recent behavior is the product of the disconnection between the two of you AND his ADHD, or has his behavior always been a little suspect around the opposite sex?
Even if your husband won't go, I would seek out some therapy for yourself. You have a lot of *totally understandable* anger, and that isn't good for YOUR health and well-being. You need to do it so YOU can come to grips with your emotions and situation, so YOU can find some peace. I wouldn't make any rash decisions yet. Sounds like he's doing enough of that for at least two people.
Best wishes,
ADHDMomof2
She has been my friend for
Submitted by dvance on
She has been my friend for almost 10 years--member of our church, her husband was murdered in a horrific office shooting--he was the target--when her son was 2 years old. All of the ladies at church circled the wagons around her and we all have a terrific support system. Two years ago my DH threatened suicide and wound up in he psych ward for three weeks and then moved out for 6 months and she was one of the people who was there for me, so I am sure she just sees this as a "we're all family" type thing. I did text her and she called me and just said she doesn't want to be in the middle, that it's not her fault he didn't contact me. Which is in fact true, but who in the world thinks it's a good idea to have her work guy, even if he's friend, working in her yard until 1am and then mixing up margs and hanging out drinking until 3 in the morning? She has a job too-how does that work? He said she slept in her son's room. I do not believe for a moment that he laid down in her bed in his grubby work clothes from digging post holes for pouring cement and cutting lumber all day--gimme a break. What clothes he slept in, that I can't say. He isn't a big drinker typically and he is on zoloft but no ADHD meds--he quit taking them when he lost his job in January because he thought if he wasn't working he didn't need them.
What I really think is he just eats up the kudos he gets over there. He is a good looking, charming, funny guy...to others. He is like a building-fixing savant. He really is gifted in that area-this treehouse is a thing of beauty, albeit WAY more complex than she wanted (she told me that) which doesn't surprise me either--once he has an idea in his head, it's never a small idea, it's a big whopping all-consuming project that lasts three times as long as he estimated it would, but that's another conversation. Back to my original point: I would imagine that it's pretty hard for him to resist all the fawning--she goes on and on about how talented he is, how wonderful he is to spend all this time, what would she do without him...you get the idea, not because she is after him but because she is just that way--she is genuinely appreciative when people do things for her and she is quite generous with her time and attention too. My issue is how misplaced his loyalty is. She is not the one managing our finances since he lost his second job in three years. She is not the one still trying to pay off the three weeks in the psych ward and all the counseling and meds that came after. She is not the one managing HIS two kids while he is over there making something great for HER kid. One of my sons has Asperger's, the other just got tested for kidney stones--so both of them have stuff that needs a lot of time and appointments and management and money. She is not the one doing his laundry or keeping his house clean. Obviously I too like a clean house and need clean clothes, that's not what I am saying, but jeez--wake up dude. She's not the one who had to explain to HIS kids why Daddy wasn't at Christmas two years ago because he was in the middle of a break down (I didn't say that). There were two other women that crossed his path right before the breakdown and again in the hospital. I really do not believe he slept with any of them, including two nights ago, it's more the attention from new people, people who don't know his problems and just think he's a great guy. Who wouldn't love that? I'm a shrew--I expect him to work and interact with me and the kids, call when he's going to be late, be responsible with the money--what fun is all that? He actually told me that maybe I should get a part time job in the fall (I teach junior high, so I've been off for the summer), like after school, so he didn't have to work so hard. Who is going to take our Asperger's guy to his counselor and related activities? Who is going to supervise the sophomore, who is a very good boy, but also an ADHD 15 year old boy. If he had his way, he would play video games 24/7 and live on ice cream! But I should take an after school part time job so HE doesn't have to work so hard.
Maybe it's not ADHD, mybe he's just an immature jerk. I see a counselor and we were in marraige counseling until January but it was really a waste of time--DH lied to the counselor's face and walked out when I called him on it. I told him I would be happy to continue counseling but this time he had to find the counselor (last time it was a recommendation from my shrink) so of course nothing came of that. Look, I realize there are plenty of folks with ADHD who are successful and good for you--you have my utmost respect for upholding your end of the human deal but there are way more ADHD grown ups who don't address it in any meaningful way and leave the rest of us to clean up their messes. When this is done I never want to date or be with anyone again. He has totally drained me. I have no empathy or desire left, no sexual desire, nothing. I just want to be left alone. I will quite happily raise my boys and launch them, but as for another man? Over my dead body.
dvance,
Submitted by NLKohlenberger on
dvance,
I certainly hear your upset. It sounds like you are living in a very challenging situation. The unfortunate part of what you have shared is that you paint everyone with ADHD with the same brush. As if every one of them is just like your husband. There are quite a few ADHDers on this forum who might take exception to some of what you have said here. It sounds like you are in a very difficult situation. I can appreciate that that would cause you to be very frustrated and distressed. My experience has told me, though, that there are very irresponsible people in the world, ADHD or not.
I am not meaning to minimize that ADHD can present its challenges. It certainly is true that it can create some real issues in relationships. I'm just saying that there are people with ADHD, and people without ADHD that are immature and that make foolish choices. And there are many ADHDers out there who are extremely successful and have proven themselves to live very fruitful lives. So what I'm suggesting here is that you speak from your individual experience, rather then over-generalizing to an entire group of people.
I hear that your husband has done things that are very upsetting, and he should be held accountable for his poor behavior. It certainly seems important for you to decide if this is behavior you can tolerate. However, I would not blame all of his poor behavior and misguided decisions on his ADHD. There appears to be more going on there than that. Just my opinion, of course.
I really have a lot of compassion for your situation. It really sounds like you could use some real support. I hope you have good friends and a strong family situation that can give you some of the caring and love you need and deserve. I hope you will do the best you can to take good care of yourself. And, if it seems appropriate, you may want to seek professional help.
Hi Icefishinglady...
Submitted by c ur self on
I just read your post and I sure hope you don't marry this person...I am a man, and if I had said and done the things to a lady that you have documented in this heart felt post...I would have issues you surly wouldn't need to take on. I would either be living in some kind of fear or just not in love with you...You have been so beneficial in his and his children's lives, It sounds like he really doesn't know how to handle being truthful. But, you can't build a sound marriage on that. It sounds like he looks at you as a special friend if he's a good man...And if not he's taking advantage of your loyalty and kindness...Anyway your post has many red flags...I suggest you pull away and maybe just be there friends...I think things will clear up for you at that point...And if it really can work and he is going to love and treat you with the respect you deserve, it will. If not you will be so thankful you didn't ruin your life with someone who just needed you, but doesn't Truly love you...Blessing....
icefishinglady, agree with c ur self
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Hi, icefishinglady, I totally agree with c ur self. I've been married to an ADHD man (under-treated) for 31 years, so I know first hand, how difficult these marriage are. But, I wouldn't get into a marriage with so many red flags flying, and him not committing to you. You've been a great asset to his children, and for that you truly need to be commended.
Well said, c ur self
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
Many red flags, agreed. Never push marriage on someone who doesn't want it. Could not possibly end well.