So, my husband, who loves gadgets wanted the new iPhone a few years back - I said I would be ok with him making the purchase because he promised to use it for tracking and making lists to help him manage his ADHD symptoms. Of course - we bought several apps to assist with this, and set up his plan so that he could also enjoy the phone, watch music videos etc. And as you can imagine- as I am sure most of you are already thinking - he NEVER used it for the reasons he stated he "needed" it. He set up reminders and ignored them, finally deleting him because he was tired of having to turn them off (while he was ignoring what they were for). He never bothered using the tracking or list apps recommended for ADHD people to help manage their time. IN FACT - that phone became a source of contention between us because he acts like a teenage girl with it - constantly checking FB and who knows what else.
It got the point of being so bad that I asked him to put it down in the evenings (like I did) so that it would not be a source of distraction when we were supposed to be spending time together. He agreed to not check FB at least, even though he kept his phone. AND as I am sure you are ALREADY THINKING - he would "mess up" all the time and "accidentally" check FB when he would go outside for a smoke break. Uh-huh... accidentally. I am sure sometimes it was, but not all the time.
H is very careless with his phone, he already washed it once, and I refused to buy him a new one. He got the "same" phone through the warranty. I told him that I wasnt going to buy him the new model (that he wanted and was already angling for) and to make do with the cheaper warranty option offered by ATT. I had actually intended on getting him the "latest greatest" for Christmas this year after we paid off the house remodel... so its not like I was being an ass about it. We literally do not have the money with his 400 a month smoking habbit, and the thousands of dollars we are in debt for the remodel - with STILL needing to do more to the house to finish it. We are not where we were last year financially and he doesnt seem to *get* that.
So, last night - he leaves his phone in the car. In triple digit heat. Not even thinking or considering that it would kill his phone. And guess what - thats right, phone is DEAD now. Practically melted. So now, he has no phone. And what is HILARIOUS to me - this starts a full on research and desire to "fix" that problem (you know - unlike how he is trying to work on his marriage or anything... sorry - but I am kinda bitter right now when I see him put any effort into something because it proves to me he is capable - and just not willing when it comes to our life together). Here is my awkward situation. This man, who has told me he doesnt love me, doesnt want to be married - came to the conclusion a "LONG" time ago that we would not work (and therefor will not put any real effort other than being civil) is now headed to the ATT store to "see what they have" and the only money he has to BUY it is mine at the moment.... I am not really sure I am OK with him spending money on a new phone - he isnt working - this would be *my* money - which I cannot afford. To top that off, I still am supporting him FULLY. I pay for everything - including things like his cigarettes etc - which are no small expense. I am on the hook for the data plan, I am on the hook for EVERYTHING. he says he is going to put in on a credit card, and then pay in payments to ATT - because he says he is getting a job. Well he has said that for about 6 months now and there is no job yet.
Here is a fun fact - if he had not been smoking for the last 3 months - I would have had enough money to buy him the latest/greatest phone. But he doesnt think like that - he doesnt plan ahead. Doesnt consider that sometimes you cannot have everything you want when you want it.
I am just really frustrated. I told him that I am not comfortable with buying him a new phone and he says he understands and will be doing it with his own money etc. We will see I guess. I hope today is still a good day. I hope he at least continues his steps towards a better self. I need to repeat my mantra over and over and NOT let any of these nice times deceive me into complacency thinking that things will be better between us.
Oh yeah.
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I hear you. It's hard to consider it "just" adhd and not take it personally I see my husband plan and excel at other things, just nothing I need help with or related to the marriage. Of course, as wives, we assume it's because it's not important to him. It is really, really hard not to assume that it's because he doesn't care. LOL.. the ADHD language: "go look at...." = he's buying it, he just doens't want to say so directly and have a real conversation about it. My husband goes to "look" at things all the time - then I usually see shiny new things in the garage.
HA! Yep. of course he just
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
HA! Yep. of course he just walked in with a brand new phone - and "ONLY" 21 a month extra on the bill. *sigh*.......
I hope he has his job soon because 21 extra a month is still TWENTY ONE DOLLARS A MONTH I have to come up with until then.
Oh - and he just CANT SURVIVE with out a phone for more than a few hours.... literally I think his head might explode.
I was hoping he would have
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
I was hoping he would have been smart about what he purchased. But to him - he wants the "best" even though he cannot technically afford it. it bugs me! Maybe it shouldn't - but it really does. its like he cares so much about what stuff he has - that he completely neglects what he has inside. He will be like "its only a phone and I need it"... with out ever taking a look at the big picture. its not that I dont WANT him to have cool stuff, and have the things he enjoys - but its like thats what matters most to him - and I guess that bugs me.
Same here. Husband has the
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Same here. Husband has the best computer stuff, phones, wires, headsets.......you name it. He has 3 screens all set up side by side, with umpteen keyboards, modems, routers, speakers and equipment. Cost......thousands. I have an older flip phone on a cheap plan and one of his "old" computers he didnt want any more.
He also buys drum equipment by the tons. He could make a store full of drums if he wanted to. Also has a garage full of tools and stuff he barely uses if ever. Loves his "stuff", and always ordering more online. He doesnt take CARE of his stuffm but he gets LIVID if someone else uses it or wants it. Overprotective of HIS STUFF, except when it came to me and our family. Dont understand that.
YES!!!! He doesn't care so
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
YES!!!! He doesn't care so much about it once he has it - he wants it, but wont take care of it (keep things clean, make sure he doesnt risk breaking etc)... but he has such a drive and compulsion to get more more more. I think he is trying to soothe somthing he cant with this. The only way to satisfy and be happy with what he already has would be to become happy with who he is. And I dont see how that is possible with out doing the work laid out for him - that he flat our refuses to do.
I would never want to live like that.
I am confused....stacey
Submitted by Zapp10 on
Why are you in an "awkward" spot? Why don't you know what to do.....now?
I have followed your posts. I don't doubt you love your H. With what you have said....it's obvious he doesn't "feel" the same.
I can see that he does "get" that he has ADD. Obviously he can DO ....things to improve....but at what point have you both sat down to discuss your future together? When did he say anything about wanting a future with you? When has he communicated he LOVES you?
You have said he is leaving....HIS decision.....WHEN? Why does he get to decide? You say he has done this before....saying he is leaving.....but never does? Hmm
You say he doesn't have a job.....there is no money but he is out buying....?Hmm
He smokes( and I am one myself)....how does he get them? No job? Contributing nothing? Hmm
My H is also a kind, thoughtful, industrious person. He is totally confused and can't believe ADD causes any BIG problems. He doesn't like that I am in apartment above our home...living separately. Years of trying to "talk" to him about how his behavior was increasingly difficult and why was it "ok" that I feel like crap...not valued at all and apparently really "not seen" as important. This is a perfectly "do-able" issue.....so why the defiance, defensiveness? I have come to see there is something else at play here.....something "off" the entire marriage(43 yrs). ADD or no ADD. Do I regret not seeing it?.....yes. Now that I do?.......HE DOES NOT CALL THE SHOTS WHERE I AM CONCERNED ANYMORE and I am DONE with my regret.
I don't think you see how much you are still wanting your H in your life and I don't mean any offense. Please know I understand ALL you describe about you and your H...but from my view.....your H is still "calling the shots" and life as he knows it with you.....is pretty easy.........HOW is he going to leave? WHO is going to provide for him?
It took me until recently to ask myself......."why am I settling" for this relationship? This IS NOT based on MUTUAL love and respect. Never mind the tardiness, unfinished projects, all the new shiny gotta have it things, finances etc.......the FACT you cannot TALK CALMLY and OPENLY about these things says there is SOMETHING more WRONG in the relationship and it can ONLY be resolved by BOTH of you TALKING and if THAT isn't happening.......then WTH? It takes TWO people.....to be married.
You can ONLY HEAR the "not nice things" he says......if he is there.....THAT is not his decision alone.
ADHD'ese Translation LOL Zapp
Submitted by kellyj on
I agree with you Zapp. Thanks for saying this. I'm working on a list of translations in to plain English to be able to interpret these things that are said and I only came up with a couple just now from the things I've just read Stacey, Dede and Va mention.
No matter is said so up front....something is missing between what is said and what the action is. What is said up front....is only the direction they're headed....not necessarily where they will end up but it tells you at least the direction. If you become the intervention between what is said to change the direction...you can prevent the thing from happening "if" you speak up and say so up front at the time instead of doing nothing ie:
Stated direction "come see this" "I'm thinking about this" = (intervention and correction) = end result
That means you have to be the intervention or the direction will not change. If you say...."oh...that sounds nice..."...or...."oh, that looks good...." even if you have no interest WHAT SO EVER in this thing being presented in front of you or you are asked if you like it.
"Yeah....I like it" means you just said and translated "Yes. Go buy it."
If you think you've just saying...."that looks good but we need to talk about this before you go buy it" you would be wrong.
What you need to say is something like "I'm not going to be happy if you just go do this without talking about it first but right now....I don't want to have that conversation. I'm not ready to have that conversation with you right now and I really don't want to think about it right NOW..BUT, I WILL WHEN I'M READY BUT NOT RIGHT NOW. I don't care if you do at some time later on....but DON"T go out and do it...even if you're thinking I'm Okay with it. YES....I do like it and I think it looks good...but as I'm saying this.....DON'T DO IT!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH???"
There. That might help. lol
This just happened (again) with me and I told my wife as she said it..."I've been working on this for hours already" and then she wanted my opinion about something I hadn't even thought of or am going to think about since....it's way off in the future and so far out....it is completely out of context to our lives right now. I don't care if she wants to think about things and that's alright. I do the same thing in preparation but I found that with my wife...preparing is a prelude to doing it and she will do it right then without a plan or any other consideration that gets in between what she wants....and getting it.
If I actually join her in this kind of discussion without realizing this going in right from the start....it's going to happen as soon as she has made up her mind and made the decision....which means....if I'm helping her make the decision....I better know what I'm helping her doing in the first place right?
What she's wanting from me is to help her make the decision that she's already decided to do ahead of me actually having any input into what so ever.///..but never stopped to consider the fact....I'm not even thinking about it or have given it any thought or consideration at all when she comes to me. ( 0 )
And I have no intention of doing what ever she is thinking about which is the same thing as her saying....."I'm doing this right now....can you help me decide?" NO!!!!!!!!! But that would be like throwing a bucket of water on her head and dismissing her feelings the same as with me.
What I've found is...when she's ready.....she's ready...with me or not. I have to do something to stop her right NOW.... from proceeding any further before I have a chance to think about it myself and what I want....then I can have that talk to her about it but as it comes to me....she 'HITS" me with these "thoughts" which are actually thinking about doing it. NOW. For sure!!! lol That is...if I want to change her direction or have any say in the matter what so ever? NOW means NOW...for me too. I have to do something....whether I like it or not? What I do....will dependent on being prepared for her when she "HITS" me even if I'm off guard or not ready. Me being "ready" has little or nothing to do with it. Just the way it is.
J
Ha! ha! J....
Submitted by Zapp10 on
My favorite ones .......Me: I just need a yes or no.
IF you are fortunate to GET.. just a yes or no........THEY DO NOT MEAN....yes..or..no
SWEET JESUS! I fall for it every time!!!
Hahahaha
Submitted by vabeachgal on
J:
This made me laugh out loud.
I could have a lot of fun with this. You should write a "dictionary" - you might have best seller on your hands... you could appear on Oprah... maybe you could make an electronic version, like a magic 8 ball... you could market it "as seen on tv" hahahaha... my personal favorite is.... ready?
Actual phone conversation:
Husband: The front coat closet is really cold, like 10 degrees colder than the house. The builder must not have insulated it.
Me: Oh, okay. (internal dialog: what a strange thing to say but okay....he's into home remodeling and stuff....whatever)
Husband: Yeah, okay, talk to you later. When will you be home with the kids? (internal dialog: she's out schlepping the kids around to their activities and I am going out with the guys but I don't want to say so because she will be mad she is schlepping kids and I'm going out. She is really weird about the two of us not ever doing anything together. Sheesh. I'll put this out there and maybe she'll read between the lines and then I can SAY that I told her I was going out...you know, , um, went in the closet to, um, grab a coat, yeah, grab a coat.)
... much later...
Husband: But I TOLD YOU I WAS GOING OUT, did you NOT HEAR THE WORDS THAT WERE COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH?
Me: Why would I think that? You wear flip flops and short sleeves in January. Why would I think you were in the closet getting a coat to go out? It's barely cold by your standards. Why would you expect me to make that connection? Are you speaking Martian?
note to self: never say "oh, okay." ask ask ask ask .... oh okay ALWAYS translates into permission ...
and if the word "car" ever appears, your ears need to perk up - to intervene against a visit to an auto showroom....
car and electronics = very bad
My "key" word....
Submitted by Zapp10 on
If H says "wouldn't it be COOL" I know to be more on guard.......it usually will show up.
Another cue is when he goes around to the back of the barn......."something" is in the back of the truck"
The truth is if there is money anywhere to be had.......he CANNOT NOT spend it. He knows I "save". He refuses to "know" what's in the checking. He's happy I take care of it until I say.......better pay attention....there isn't much left. Living payday to payday is ABSOLUTELY INGRAINED in him. If there is money "left" that means.....he has to spend it.(trust me, I make sure there is no leftover money). I don't work, no retirement(hello housewife...duh). The money comes from him and HE doesn't pay attention. I scarf off it regularly in order to pay for unexpected expenses and they happen alot...oy. We are on a fixed income and he still spends like he always has....what did I expect? when did I expect? man I am a slow learner.
Here is another goodie I just love.......H: You don't need to worry if something happens to me first....you will have enough to get by.....me: that's comforting to you that I will "get by"?.........apparently 20,000 goes really far these days.Hello? funeral expenses? Hello?...property taxes?
"It Would Be Nice"....Zapp
Submitted by kellyj on
"It would be nice...... if you didn't XXXX"
Just throwing another one out there for anyone to see. This just happened and I went....wait a minute???
As I am walking towards the door out of the room...."it would be nice if you didn't walk there" as she just mopped the floor but the floor was dry. Which is saying....."if you walk there...you won't be nice. shame on you if you" do..... as I stopped mid step from going outside with my foot in the air. Wait a minute. Nice has nothing to do with it??? lol
(as I continued walking straight ahead and outside to keep working anyway....give me a break!!! ) It's the kitchen floor for crying out loud....not a show room gallery that no one lives in? (in the middle of the afternoon when I'm still trying to work and need to walk across the damn floor.lol This happened two minutes after she walked into the door from work.
Perfectionism...and sabotage. There you go.
J
Werid?
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
So she asked you not to walk on a certain spot in the room for no reason? Were your shoes dirty and full of mud or something? I dont get it - seems odd to ask someone to not walk on the floor for absolutely not reason.
More Than Wierd Stacey...."Wierd-O"
Submitted by kellyj on
I just read Zapps comment and I'm feeling a little bit like my old smart ass self again too. LOL
I just went through being punished again for 4 hours of hearing how horrible I am....how hated I am......how I hurt her all the time.....I'm leaving you......your an asshole.......no ...I don't want to leave you.......shut up don't speak to me........speak to me..........stop speaking to me.......you never do what I want......shut up, why are you speaking to me........I told you not to speak to me but not your not respecting me when I told you before to shut up and not speak to me.......I hate you......Okay lets me just friends and roommates.......wait, I don't want to be just roommates......well, when we retire to together......how long will it take for you to be ready to move......I don't have a problem with disappointment that's your problem.......what do you mean I don't acknowledge you or let you speak, you were the one who wanted to speak to me, remember........
me: "Which part?"
Wierd-O
And no.....my shoes weren't dirty, that was warm up for what was about to come but you'd have to ask her what that was about....I can't read minds. This was pay back for mentioning that is might be possible ...that it's an outside chance.....maybe.....could be......she has ADHD....I didn't bring it up or say word one about it.
This is what I get for trying.
"Oh.....and what do you mean I'm a perfectionist........ no I'm not......and I don't have ADHD, I just Googled it and read the symptoms and I don't do any of those things....
that's not me at all.....No I'm not....just ask my friends" (fucking retard!!!!!!!)
me; "Just fine thanks"
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
J
Coming Back....Calmed Down
Submitted by kellyj on
I realized what my problem is with dealing here and maintaining my objectivity. It came to me when I remembered my T a long time ago explaining his feelings on treating people with addictions. As he put it...".it is not due to my inability of have objectivity, compassion, empathy or that I have a bias against any or my patients who come see me. (this is true...he is extremely open minded and has no strong opinions coming through or personal feelings of his own that he displays) I don't believe he is actually trying to hold back anything here either...he's just a really nice guy.
One time, by coincidence....we met outside of his office at a fund raiser which I was part of the raising committee which made him a little nervous but as he said....I don't have a problem with it...it just puts me in an awkward position. Yes....it did...but nothing became of it but I did get to see him outside of the office once and he was no different than when he is in. He is himself...both ways the same.
But as he told me why he won't see addiction patients anymore....it's because of his experience in the past since he use to see all kinds of patients and has dealt with addiction before. As he put it..."I have a bias which I have to disqualify myself on the behalf of my patients...for their benefit not my own. I know the statistic rate of failure and for me....I cannot give my all whole heartedly unless I know the results will have some chance of success. The failure rates are so high...that a person dealing with addictive patients knows this and their motivation is in the immediate. To provide support and comfort in dealing with their needs right now....not looking to the future for any results either way for the patient to kick their addiction as the only motivation to give my all to my patients.....therefore.....I must step back and disqualify myself for that reason alone.
YES!!! Exactly. I cannot honestly say...that I have any compassion for someone who gets upset with discomfort. I'm not talking about real pain but the kind of discomfort I experience every day of my life. I have sensitivities due to my ADHD and they are uncomfortable. I know this. I live it everyday.....it won't kill me. I don't like it.....it doesn't feel good....it's really , really uncomfortable sometimes. Extremely uncomfortable sometimes.......but I get over it. Every day!!!!!! IT WILL NOT KILL ME!!!!!!! And it hasn't yet.
Knowing this and having lived with all the things my wife's experiences to a level (without knowing this exactly) that sensory discomfort (not emotional pain )....but actual physical sensory discomfort or unpleasant "feelings" on top of emotional discomfort.....emotional liability....and all that goes with it.....I cannot believe that her discomfort is any less than what I experience. I"M UNCOMFORTABLE ALL THE TIME!!! I DON'T FEEL GOOD....ALL THE TIME. THERE'S NOT A DAY IN MY LIFE....I DON'T FEEL DISCOMFORT TO EVEN GREAT LEVELS FOR PERIODS OF TIME EACH DAY IN MY LIFE....ALL THE TIME.
Saying....what I know about having ADHD....and what I know about pain and discomfort...and what I have gone through to know this first hand....I cannot honestly say I don't have a bias when seeing someone come unglued when they become a little or even a lot uncomfortable. I'm not talking about pain....I'm talking about discomfort and in....a little too hot....or a little too cold....or a little this...or a little that. The physical experience of being uncomfortable goes with the territory I think having ADHD...and the sensitivities you have to deal with.....OR NOT.
When I see my wife.....NOT DEALING WITH DISCOMFORT.....I have no compassion for her what so ever. None. I'm not buying that she feels worse than me or feels more than me or is more uncomfortable than me on a sensory, body feeling level. I'm not buying it and I never will. I do not have the objectivity when I see people not dealing with discomfort (not pain ) to be objective and I know it. I can't get what I actually know...out of my head.
What my wife wants....is me to cator to her discomfort...and I'm not doing it. I know for a fact....first hand experience what these things feel like to varying degrees....from really bad...to minor. And I just live with and deal with it and never say a word to anyone. No one would even know if I didn't say I was uncomfortable.
I'm not buying it. I'm not buying that she feels worse than me. Get over it....I have a bias that I cannot get past in the same way (exactly the same way) as my T explained his to me for the same reason. I have to remove myself and cannot be in the room while I see someone loosing it because they are uncomfortable. Forget it. I will never NOT have that bias ...based on what I know and what I know is true. I have goals and things I want for the future. Someone who can't get past right NOW because of discomfort.....I have no compassion for what so ever. (0) I have sensitivities.....I know what I'm talking about!!! lol
I'M NOT HURTING ANYONE.....I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!!! LOL
I did it....I do it.....so can anyone else. It is not....beyond ...some ones capacity to live with being uncomfortable. NOT PAIN. Discomfort......Period. Get over it. I'm not getting paid to be a health care professional....that's not my JOB!!!
J
J, you are right it's not
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
J, you are right it's not your job to deal with so done else's comfort, but it IS your job to be compassionate to your wife and help her through hers. You don't have to coddle her, but my husband does exactly what you are saying when I experience discomfort. And pain. He walks away. His callousness and disregard for my experience is one of the biggest reasons I can no longer be in this relationship.
One characteristic I have seen with ADHD and ADD people is the inability to empathize with others. Sure, you might have been through something similar and didn't get support and it was painful or uncomfortable, so maybe it's harder for you to understand that not every one can manage the same way you did. Or maybe you just don't think someone should be uncomfortable about a specific situation because you are not. But a kind and generous person won't care and will still want to comfort the person who is experiencing the pain or discomfort of a situation.
I do not think taking a combative stance against your wife just because you don't get IT is a good idea. Maybe open yourself up and try to understand where she is coming from or maybe just be there and provide comfort to her. Give her a hug. Don't treat her like the enemy when she is already in a bad situation. You will never get anywhere good with that attitude.
my husband treats me like that, and there are fewer things in my life that have hurt me worse.
I Do Understand What Your Saying... Stacey
Submitted by kellyj on
But I came to witness last night is a little different. What I don't do is walk away from anyone when they are experiencing a difficult time with something. I am in general...a very compassionate and patient person by nature. I have no problem giving a wide birth and accepting a good deal of someone esle's grief for a period of time when I need to. I can be there....I don't walk away.....even when I'm uncomfortable myself in a giving way.
As you described your H.....I know the feeling he has in those moments when he walks away from you. It's tough to deal with someone else's pain....when you feel pain or discomfort yourself. It can be easily overwhelming sometimes. There you go. Overwhelm. What do you do with it. Do you let it get the better of you...or do you deal with it. This is what I'm saying to a certain degree but there's more too it than that.
As it did come out by the most long an arduous way possible (getting down to it) the problem comes from what my wife believes....not her discomfort.
She actually, truly believes....that I am the cause of her discomfort in the most ridiculously and completely irrational way...that it defies any form of excuse or explanation possible. It is delving into the realm of delusion..her logic and rationalization and excusing her own bad behavior is that bad.
As she put it....I hurt her everyday??? What ???? How can that be?????
She said....."the environment that causes me so much pain....YOU CREATED....so therefore, it's your fault I'm uncomfortable and you hurt me everyday becuase of it.
So let me get this straight. Even though.....I created this mess or these areas of the house and outside that got all screwed up (in part because of my past renters)....long before I met you or you even knew me.....and all the work and progress I have made that you see me do everyday right in front of your eyes.....and you see me do it....and you see how far I've come....and the inside areas where we occupy are clean, neat and tidy and I am keeping it that way which took a lot of effort and time....breaking old habits....forming new ones.....keeping it clean to your standards......not hardly missing a thing in these inside areas and keeping it that way.....
I'm hurting you.....because I created this situation.
"Yes. You're doing this too me.....so therefore....I get to verbally attack you relentlessly and punish you for hurting me everyday like you do." In summation....not in so many words. This IS what she beleives I got it out of here and she made this crystal clear to me.
Honestly Stacey....when you are sick, have discomfort and hurting or feel pain.....do you attack your H and tell him he's the one who hurting you in these ways and try and justify it in such a ridiculous way?
I'm not saying I can't be objective or compassionate to someone else pain and discomfort at my own expense even it makes me uncomfortable. I'm saying....I have no compassion for someone who is blaming me for actually hurting them....I repeat.....HURTING then overtly....and try to connect it to absurdity and will not or cannot see outside of this delusion that is so obvious....I don't know what do say or do it about it???
All I can do is keep yelling...."cause and effect.....cause and effect." That's pretty useless I know? It's the only thing I can come up with at the time.
So as I'm saying this....it's one thing to turn your back on someone and not be compassionate when you see them in pain and discomfort.....it's another thing entirely when they go on the offensive and start attacking you relentlessly while you trying to remain calm....and blaming you for hurting them for something that is completely out of your control and they can't even make that basic kind of connection? I mean....CANNOT make that basic kind of connection.....even once?
So picture....your H....coming to your side during your time of need for an upset stomach and being there for you even just in the room to show his support.....and you start coming unglued and blame him for the ham sandwich you ate and you believe that since your husband bout the ham 6 months ago....and you forgot to read the label.....then you upset stomach is your husband fault and he hurt you??? And now your coming unglued all over him while he's just sitting there in the room with you showing you his support and you keep going off on him until you stop feeling the upset from the ham sandwich....that you forgot to read the label....that your husband bought at the grocery store 6 months ago..... and he's the one who hurt you????? Give me a break!!!!
What kind of compassion do you call that? I seem to be without any I guess?
J
No I would not come unglued
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
No I would not come unglued about something like that. However, after trying to be supportive and compassionate and loving towards my husband who doesn't return that to me, and who doesn't follow through with things he says he will, and doesn't do the work asked of him by the therapists, lies to my face, doesn't cleanup after himself, and other wise abandons me any time I truly just need him to be there for me, I guess you can say that he did indeed create the environment that causes me pain. The entire environment itself becomes almost unmanageable because I cannot put faith and trust into him, but I also get hostility should I question or "nag" because then it's just controlling him or being a bitch.
Maybe if I can explain this way. Let's take the ham sandwhich situation. Let's say that I asked my husband to buy some ham. I go make myself a sandwhich out of the ham in the fridge. I don't read the label because I trust my husband to purchase ham that hasn't gone past the expiration date. So I make the sandwhich and eat it and get sick because it's bad. I look and sure enough, ham is past due. Why didn't he check when he bought it? I put my faith in him and now I am sick. Now I am mad at him, not just because I am sick from bad ham, but that I again put my trust into him. But I should have known better because he always does this, but if I question anything he gets hostile, so I have to take the risk of trusting him. And it again bites me in the ass.
So more way to package that deal. If you react with compassion and humbleness, a lot of times that turns the tables and can open up to comfort on both sides. Even if you are right, is being right better than loving your spouse?
The Cohesive Story of Understanding and Patience
Submitted by kellyj on
I had to reflect a bit and sort things out...but as I know....there is a reason for everything...always.
There were some loose ends floating around in my wife's story and were not so much...not making sense...but I was not getting the complete story. She can't remember some...and some...she says, she doesn't want to talk about.
But my brother in law has been the gap filler...in between. He remembers what my wife does not and he's told me things that now....suddenly make sense. Good for my brother in law....he's got his blank spots too....but I don't have any emotional attachments and distortions for their story as the listener. I can piece together enough now.....to understand exactly what is happening. At least...if I were a betting man....I'd lay a good amount of money down on it.....how about that? lol
In short hand.....
Mom is an enabler and an alcoholic by association with the real alcoholics in the family (the hard core ones). Mom goes along with what ever husband she has at the time and gives in to anything the kids want because of the real abusive Men....in particular....one who was the most prevalent one in the family. The one no ones talks about much. Bingo.Drunk Narc Husband # 2...then later...remarried again to him....Hoover. As told...he was physically abusive to little brother but not to my wife. He would get drunk and become irate about the house hold or arrive home drunk and then go off... attacking people both verbally and physically (only little brother physically )
The condition of the house in terms of messiness and disorder was retaliated against upon the children who created what this drunk abusive man saw as.....and inconvenience to him. Better "these nuisance kids weren't even around and better if they were gone out of my sight period."
Mom enables and triangulates and puts up with this by sweeping everything under the rug but can't lose her man who she is hopelessly dependent on who has free reign to his drunken behavior and Mom is put in a place of not being able to choose between the drunk...and her children and the children take second seed always.
My wife...carries a lot of shame and guilt passed off on her...but more in terms towards her little brother....who she has not forgiven herself for since .....she tattled on her brother to keep herself safe from harm. She sided with her abuser to save herself at her brothers expense and little brother took the brunt of the abuse because it of to save herself. Not her fault...she has no fault or blame her at all.
Mom and drunk husband both worked...so kids were responsible for the messes they created when parents came home. Drunk husband scapegoats the house and children and environment for his drunken abuse.....Mom scapegoats the kids for her choice and dependence on her choice of the drunk abusive husband......my wife scapegoats her little brother for any part she played....and little brother took all the shit that rolled down hill and landed in his lap....and now received ...(while my wife stood by and watched)....the drunken abusive Narcs husband's wrath and physical beatings for the entire family with her as witness. And what becomes of that is PTSD and a whole lot of shame and guilt. A TON of shame and guilt to go around for everyone.
This is the "chicken shit" I think...that I feel in these interactions sometimes with my wife. This describes "chicken shit" perfectly. It is a lacking of character in a sense...but not so much on my wife's or brothers part in a genetic way of some kind or form I think. More due to the drunken abuser and alcoholic...and the dependence and neediness or the enabling mother who through her own children under the bus. I see this as more of a character issue hand me down...than one directly related to my wife and her little brother. This makes total sense in what I see. It is a weakness out of fear and not very courageous on anyones part....but I can have compassion for this much since there is a logical connection to what I experience.
Sooooo. On my part (as I have known)....shame is a component for me....but a lessor weaker thing that effects me or makes me divert my direction. I have my PTSD too....but it easy to connect to directly.
For my wife....this is a convoluted mess to deal with in her own PTSD. You had too many weak players...with too many weak characters to really sort this out for her. All she feels is guilt, shame, panic and that Narcissist Buck Passing, Shit rolls down hill scapegoating and passing off and excusing drunken derelict behavior as some how Okay.....and getting others to take he fall of their own shame and blame.
I can understand this and be more patient myself with this story. I can also be compassionate too. There is always a reason for everything and I think with the pieces I have.....this is the picture I see.
J
J, It must be in the air....
Submitted by Zapp10 on
tonite....
H and I had a classic circular conversation this evening....concerning turnip.
H (standing looking at garden): It looks like the seeder plugged up and there are areas that didn't get seeded. There should be more showing.
Me: with what you planted here and down below we will have PLENTY.(we got a pound 167,000 seeds..sigh)
H: I will just fill in where it is bare with more.
Me: I thought they(the seeds) were all gone?
H: they are. I planted here and down back.
me: so you DON"T have some left?
H: when the seeder isn't adjusted right it let's too many out and they fall through and catch at the bottom.
me: so you DO have some left?
H: yes.........no......(blank look)
Me: are you talking about BUYING more to fill in the bare spots?
H: yes
Me: you don't think 167,000 seeds is going to be enough turnip?
H: no.......yes
Me: are the BARE spots BOTHERING YOU? How many BARE SPOTS can there be? There are at least 3000 seeds in this patch! And you want to buy MORE!!!!???
H knows I am being a smart ass now....he hates when I am a smart ass, but says it is a nice compliment to his being a jackass......
LOL Flintstones
Submitted by kellyj on
Va....that run down and internal dialog sounded like the script to a Flinstones episode. You know....Fred talking to Wilma on the phone....but has plans to go with Barney to the Water Buffalo lodge the whole time and play poker with the boys but doesn't want Wilma and Betty to know about it. LOL
Either that or the Honey Mooners....take you pick. LOL
J
Zapp - you hit home for me.
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Your post really hit home for me and made me think hard. It kinda suckerpunched me. :-) Dont worry - I am glad of it. I am gonna try to clear up things for you (and maybe even in my shell shocked head).
"Why are you in an "awkward" spot? Why don't you know what to do.....now?"
You know - its really funny this question when i actually started thinking about it. I guess - I am SO USED to poor reactions and "paying for it" with him thinking that every objection I have to him doing anything is a shot at "controlling" him, that I just feel weird and brace for impact. Usually things follow where he gets mad, sulky at me - will say he understands, but then he uses it later as an excuse to "want to leave" because he feels like he has no control. I rarely object to things, and when I do I tell him WHY - even when its a dumb reason why - and even then, it doesnt mean I will STOP him fro doing something. But yeah, I hate his reactions to things because he takes everything as an asullt to him - and then I have to live on eggshells for a while. I work so hard on making sure I do nothing to control or manipulate him that its extremely hurtful to me when he does that. I guess you can say that it always ends up making *me* feel (my own issue here) that I am his enemy (on top of the other reasons why he acts like I am his enemy). In perspective - its just more ammo for him to use against me in his threats of leaving and his accusations of me being controlling.
"I have followed your posts. I don't doubt you love your H. With what you have said....it's obvious he doesn't "feel" the same."
Yep - he doesnt. He has said so verbally - but more than that, he has said so with his actions. He regularly treats me contemptiously - rolling his eyes, annoyed tones when I dare bring something up. He shows me how he doesnt feel the same about me when he lies to my face, when he says he will do something and doesnt do it. He proves to me how much he doesnt value me. Believe me, this is a very hard realization that I struggle with every minute of the day. Right now my heart hurts tremendously knowing that I love someone with everything I got, and I matter very little to them. He will walk away from this and probably not give me or our life and what he abandoned another thought. Trust me - this is very real to me, this is my exisistance right now. My heart is in a million, sharp, painfull peices right now and at some moments it more than I can bear, and I have to count to the next breath. I am not confused about his feelings toward me at all.
"I can see that he does "get" that he has ADD. Obviously he can DO ....things to improve....but at what point have you both sat down to discuss your future together? When did he say anything about wanting a future with you? When has he communicated he LOVES you?"
Yep - he is full aware of his ADHD (not ADD). He also is clinically depressed and is a CSA survivor who lived through horrors that are unimaginable. Things he has NOT dealt with and is afraid to even touch. He wants to push it all back inside and forget about everything - but thats not how it works. He either pushes through or he sits there - in the horrors - reliving things over and over until he basically shuts himself down and turns into... nothing. He CAN do things to change himself and change his destiny. He was working on it and succeeding - and then things came out that he didnt want to face, and he crashed. You should have seen him. He was eating better (cutting out most of the sugar and carbs eating a lot of protien and veggies) and he was excersizing every single day which REALLY helped him manage his ADHD, and he was working in therapy to deal with the CSA issues. He pushed himself in ways he didnt know he could and it was incredible to see. He became so much ... more. He was strong and confident, he "knew his life was with me". He showed love (and while he was still working on how to do it better - he WAS working on it). It was an amazing time. And then he crashed - and never has recovered from that. I posted a few times about all that has gone one (him leaving, him coming back etc). I think the him deep down inside loves me, but who he is right now - he doesnt. The person he is right now has given up on everything and refuses to do the work. So which one is the real him? I dont know. Does it matter at this point? Up until 4 days ago he was telling me he loved me every time he left the house, and every night before bed. But not sure how forced it was. I know for me - I meant it even though I have come to grips that he probably didnt mean it.
"You have said he is leaving....HIS decision.....WHEN? Why does he get to decide? You say he has done this before....saying he is leaving.....but never does? Hmm"
Yes - He has left before and come back. He goes through a cycle of "I cant be a husband, I dont know if I want to be married" to "I love you, my life is with you, I know I need to work on things, dont leave me if you get mad - we cant threaten that etc" then he turns around and does threaten me. I say its HIS decision based on his inaction to do anything he says he will do and to follow through with his commitements to me and this marriage. I say HE is choosing this because he wont use the tools he has to get help and he refuses to manage his own symptoms. I say HE chooses this because he wont do the work (manageing symptoms, communicating with me, etc) he said he would do - so by his very actions he telling me he doesnt want to be in this. SO.... yes, its his choice. And I am not going to stop him. And I will not accept it anymore either (his refusal of doing any work, the lies to himself and to me that he does, and the general, constant threat that he is leaving me because he cant hack being a husband), so while he might have chosen it - I have accepted and am acting on it.
"You say he doesn't have a job.....there is no money but he is out buying....?Hmm"
Nope, he doesnt. And he said 6 months ago he was going to find one since he could not fulfill his duties to keep the house going. Get this. Previously, he was going to "retire" so that he could work on the house, take care of things, manage the household, yard etc. He didnt do ANY of it and I also caught him smoking (lying to my face about it when all he had to do was tell me the truth! I gave him every chance). SO I told him he needed to find work since he was not contributing as he said he would. At least bringing in money would offset some of the money going out. We had a long talk etc, and he promised me he would do the work etc. And I told him as a gift - I would give him another opportunity. I also REALLY wanted him to have a win (he has so few in life). So I told him that if he would take care of the house (a set of chores we listed and he agreed to), keep the yard up etc and manage the dogs - that I would be OK with him not working, and I would also get him into MMA class, and get him what he needs to take his fighting to the next level (he does Medieval fighting). I told him it would be his chance to make his big push - but it was based on him doing the work he agreed to. Well - he didnt. And then that turned into me "controlling him". I cant win. So he said he was going to get a job. I said fine, and yet - months later - still no job. I am just keeping my mouth shut. The reality is - he has to face up that he is the problem here, not me and all the unhappiness and controll issues he is feeling now - they arent going away with me either. They will be there when I am gone.. he also says he KNOWS that and he just "cant" - which means he wont because its too hard. (now that said - I dont know WHAT happened 2 weeks ago - but he has made HUGE changes here, see my other posts to get that - its shocking and confusing - but I am proud of what he has acc - aomplished - suspect it will be short lived like all things are with him - but hoping he proves me wrong. I dont want to be right.)
"He smokes( and I am one myself)....how does he get them? No job? Contributing nothing? Hmm"
I supply the cash of course. Thing is - while I dont want him to smoke (and it for sure will hurt his fighting career) - its his choice and if thats what he needed to do to get through some tough things - then so be it. I just will not tolorate LYING about it. At this point though, I just think he has no control over himself. He smoke almost 2 packs a day at this point and that is adding up to 500-600 (99 for a carton, 1.5-2 cartons a week - insanity). That's a freaking car payment or rent! Its insane! And he is so clueless... and he just thinks that he should do what ever he wants no matter the harm it does to anyone else. Its a moneky on his back, but to him its him "controlling himself" by doing anything he wants to do. He is gonna have to figure out something else when its just him - I dont see how he could afford that habbit. I dont know how anyone does on their own!
"I don't think you see how much you are still wanting your H in your life and I don't mean any offense. Please know I understand ALL you describe about you and your H"
No offense taken at all Zapp. You are dead on the money - and this is where it hurts. I do want him in my life, I do love him very very much. I want the man who told me that he knew his life was with me. I want the man who didnt make excuses, he got up did what was right, and worked HARD on himself. The man who picked himself up every day and did his workout, the man who did his home job like a BOSS. The man who makes me laugh endlessly, the man who makes me smile. I want him back more than I could ever express. But - I know he isnt real. I have no shame in saying how much I love my husband - but I also have no fear in living my life with out him. Want/Need - two different things. I have gone through hell and back with him and for him - and he can not be bothered to read a book, or an article or anything to help himself anymore. But he is happy to help himself to anything else he wants at the moment (no matter what he says to me, the cost or if its even right). So - yes, what i want is that amazing guy who I love, but what I need is to live my life free of the chains and control (by threatening to leave) that the man I am married to has put on me. Make sense? I have a very hard time with this every moment of every day right now. Because what i want is closed to me. It boils down to this - HE DOESNT WANT ME..... and I have no desire to be with someone who doesnt want me. He finds excuse after excuse for all of it. Instead of just digging deep - pushing through and putting all the pain behind him he wallows in it. THAT or its all just BS that he wants to leave, has been using me the whole time etc. I guess the end result it doesnt matter from my perspective - because either way - he DOESNT WANT TO EVEN MAKE THE SMALLEST EFFORT. Its too hard, and for me - he is weak. I dont want to be with someone so weak that they cannot even control their own behavior. I dont want to be with a child.
".but from my view.....your H is still "calling the shots" and life as he knows it with you.....is pretty easy......."
I can see why it looks this way. And in alot of ways he is calling the shots - but ONLY for things that will affect him. I have removed him from *my* equation. He is writing his life story. I have nothing to do with it. I am writing mine, and though I am in transition, I am pulling out little by litte, bit by bit. Emotionally untangling myself from the sinking ship. Life with me has been very easy - for anyone else, it would have probably been the chance of a life time to persue their biggest dreams full time with the 100% support of a loving spouse who was right there by their side. But to him - he just viewed it as me wanting to control him - even though he was not forced to it, and chose to take advantage of the benefits with out living up to the responsibility.
"HOW is he going to leave? WHO is going to provide for him?"
I have no idea, and I am not asking. He will have to figure it out - because it wont be me. He is going to have to figure out living arrangements, figure out a vehicle, figure out insurance, health care, electric, gas, water, utilities, how to pay for his phone, how to pay for his games, his cable/internet service - all of it. I am sure he will find a way. He is a very smart man, a very capable man when he needs to be. When he cares enough about something - he is unstoppable. And he will rely on his friends - they will play role of surragate family until they are ready to do their own thing (which they have epxressed numerous times). H likes to think he is independent - but the reality is, he hasnt ever made it on his own. Not with out support from somewhere.
While its hard that he is here, and its preventing me from moving on completely - I am certainly taking steps. Making plans, picturing what my life will be. Its amazing and confusing to me that in the last 2 weeks - he FINALLY starts stepping up, and doing things - which would have made all the difference had he just been a man and done it all along. I do appreciate how good he is with the dogs, and I have asked him to stay until our dog dies - he is on hospice, and dying, and is expected to not live for much longer. After that - he can leave when ever he wants.
Its never what I wanted, but its what I got. And I will make the best life I can. I have always been independent, and am in a very good situation financially for the time being because of my job. I know many others are not as lucky as I am and I am grateful that I can do things on my own easily. What I do want is a partner who I can trust, who I can rely on to be there for me in the dark times and NOT make it always about himself. I want to be able to relax and feel secure enough to feel free to laugh and have fun again with a man. I want a HUSBAND not a child whose every response to conflict is "You cant control me, I am leaving you". Even when there is no threat of control or manipulation to be had.
It absolutely takes 2 people... and I have been the one carrying the weight of both of us for 7 years. I have decided to remove that yoke, and make my own way with out the burden of someone who doesnt love me anymore.
Dont worry Zapp - I am confused too. <3
Stacey....
Submitted by Zapp10 on
One thing I do believe.....even tho I am "moving" on from my H is (and I have told him this).
I will not stay while you "think" about adhd. I will not stay and not be an active participant in going forward. So long as you decided 1) I am the enemy. 2) you will deal with it how you decide......I am out. There is no we here according to you.
It took me months and months of dwelling on our situation before I began to see.......my life and love is worth more when it is seen.........and he does not see it.....and it is NOT the end of the world.
You have not taken this situation with your H lightly and there IS heartbreak and then there is slowly.......a small relief....and it gets ....better.
If a person can't dig deep and make progress...however slow but sure......for themselves? That is sad.....but they will take you with them..... if you let them.
Be careful of guilt Stacey. It will weigh you down and it doesn't care.
My intention is that I DO care about my H.....whether he believes it or not......I KNOW.
Thats pretty much how I see
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Thats pretty much how I see it. I have withdrawn my participation in his life and his decisions. We have shared tasks and shared situations - but thats it. I am very aware that my shared life with him will be ended when my dog dies. He will have to find his own way because i will no longer enable him and will not be the one footing the bill emotionally or financially for someone who 1. Thinks of me as the enemy, and 2. refuses to do his part in our relationship - and I will NO LONGER accept his excuses or him trying to say "he tried" because it is a lie. And you know - there is some serious relief in just that alone. Refusing to buy into it, and refusing to allow him to pretend he has done what he hasnt. No more pretending on my part. I dont care if he tries to tell everyone in the world how he tried and just knew he couldnt do it - its all a lie and I KNOW IT. And.... I KNOW HE KNOWS IT TOO.
If love and cherishing and support could save a marriage - mine would have been saved because I have done all of those things. I love, cherished, protected him with all that I had. He could not be bothered to hug me when my mom was dying. Juxtaposition.
EDITED TO ADD - Ok so that whole excuse of "I am thinking on things".... OMG! I swear to god that is the biggest crock of cowardly shit ever. At this point - NOTHING sends me over the edge than hearing that BS. Thinking gets you NOTHING if you arent acting on it. To tell your spouse you are "thinking" of things when they are all in, supporting you and taking care of you and putting up with ALL your crap is insulting, uncaring and plain callous and shows what you really think of your spouse. How anyone can watch what *I* personally have been through with this man, and to have him tell me he is working on things by THINKING??? OMG... sorry - had to rant on this !