Vabeachgal posted on an old blog post - and something got me thinking from the orignal poster's ideas.
They were steps to a "better 2015" .... this was #3
"Resolution #3: Teach yourself self-intimacy.
Self-intimacy is the foundation of better communication between you and your partner. It is the ability to identify all of your feelings, not just the ones at the surface, then express them in a constructive way. So instead of saying “I’m angry!” you might learn to get in touch with what is underneath that anger and say “I’m angry, but really what I am is feeling hurt and left out.” To improve self-intimacy, start by setting three times a day to reflect on how you are feeling at that moment, searching as deeply as you can. Setting a reminder alarm will help you remember to do this. (Hint: You may think that you are good at this, but I have been humbled by how challenging it can be to identify your own deeper feelings rather than focus on telling your partner what he or she should be doing better! So, even the most ‘in touch’ partners can use work in this area.)"
As goofy as this might sound - I think its a pretty good exercise. I was thinking about my earlier post this morning, and tried to start pin pointing what the real issue was inside that was causing this anger. I know that from reading many of the stories here that my H - while he has his own demons and issues, has NOT treated me as obviously "bad" as others have had it here. He has not cheated on me that I am aware of, and if I am sick - he will make sure I have things I need, such as medicine etc, something to drink etc. In fact - I would say that there was actually a ton of good about him - even with the ADHD stuff.
For me - literally the BIGGEST problem I have is his issues of constantly having one foot in and one foot out. That anytime he stumbles or makes a mistake (be it in his view or mine) its suddenly - "well, I am broken, I concluded a long time ago this would not work". And I look at that and wonder WHY then... WHY did you come back to my old house. WHY did you tell me that you "knew" your life was with me? Why the lie? What did you gain? Was it the lifestyle I provided?
When I think about that - it angers me, and so I try to get to the core of it. And I guess - what hurts me the most is how insignificant that makes me feel. I have worked so hard, done so much to make things better for the both of us. All my decisions and all the work I do has been with BOTH of us in mind. And when he says things like that - all it makes me think is that he cares about whats easiest for him only. That he doesnt even care enough about me to be one way or the other. That makes me feel abandoned, like I trusted someone to be there and they aren't and they don't even feel BAD about it. I know I am a decent person. I have a good career, I am responsible, I try to do the right thing and do right by others. I have literally almost ALL the same interests as my H does - so we *should* have a ton to talk about and a ton to do together. I keep wondering - whats so wrong with me that I could have everything "right" on paper and yet he cant even find it in him to actually do any thing to stay with me. He *said* thats what he wanted, he *said* he tried - but he didnt. To him - all that I am, and all that I bring to the table - none of it is as important as something as insignificant as World of Warcraft? Thats hurtful. After everything I have done, sacrificed and put myself through FOR him - reading a book about his OWN CONDITION to perhaps make his MARRIAGE better is too much work? Too much effort? To "hard"? So he just gives up?
Cowardice has always made me angry. I guess because I am scared *ALL THE FREAKING TIME* about stuff - but I have to face it, push through or pay a worse price. I am terrified of so many things, and yet - I know when pushing through is worth it. I dont run, I am not a quitter. And watching him... quit... over and over, watching him be "less than" all the time angers me. It hurts me because I *DO* it. I face the fears that he runs from. He thinks that only he is affected by what happened to him as a child. But thats not the case - ALL of us around him are, but he cant see it? My experience is not nearly what his is - but I am certainly what is called a "secondary" victim. As is his daughter, his mother etc. But he runs away from it. Leaves us to clean up his messes and manage things HE should be managing.
In many ways I am relieved that this will be over soon. I wont have to live on those eggshells anymore. I wont have to feel the stab in my heart every time he chooses to slip back down the hole further. When he is gone, I will be able to put it behind me. I will have to do alot of work to recover from this. I feel like a PTSD victim after all this. It hurts beyond believe that he can walk around with out feeling any of this. Its absolutely NOT fair. He is a vulture that skims off of others kills. Never doing what it takes to get his own. And the only care he gives is for as long as he gets some of that kill. When its gone - so is he to the next one.
Not valued is what I hear.
Submitted by vabeachgal on
You are a loving, generous and capable woman but you said he makes you feel insignificant.
I get it.
I think this is a worthwhile exercise.
It seems like I operate between anger and despondent feelings. I'll take the anger over despondency. That feels really bleak when it happens. It's hard to pull myself out of it and it's scary. When I break it down and determine the reason for the anger, it is as you described. I work, I take care of others. I am a good person. I have been a good wife and mother. I contribute. My husband's actions/inactions speak volumes and make me feel not valued or appreciated and rather insignificant. I feel like a label has been placed on me and I reject it with my entire soul. He lies to me because he thinks he CAN. That's the bottom line. I am not THAT woman - I am not the woman who stands by neglected, exhausted, potentially or actually cheated on (I'll never know), lied to, riddled with financial anxiety, lonely... I am not that person. I have never ever wanted to be that person. But it seems like when you're dealing with helping a spouse with these issues, little by little your own authenticity wears off.
So if I drill down to the reasons for the anger it is this:
I want my self back, not this person I've become as a result of this marriage. The anger is part mourning and feeling loss.
I am angry about being devalued because I don't deserve it.
I am angry that I've had to carry a disproportionate burden.
I am angry at myself for tolerating it as long as I have without any reasonable basis to expect improvement.
I am angry because I don't feel "seen."
I am angry because my children have noticed the change in me and have brought it to my attention. They don't like it.
I am angry because I am not the same person I was a year and a half ago and probably never will be again.
I am angry because I have given up a lot of joy in exchange for anxiety and hurt.
So, roll the dice. Chances are if I'm feeling angry, any one or a combination of these factors are at play. It's hardly ever the work. I don't get angry for having to do work.
Anyway, we drop off child #2 at college on Wednesday. Then we need to begin the work of sorting this out and planning for wrapping things up. I can't imagine on what basis I could continue. The trust has been so broken. Any one of the transgressions could have killed a marriage but my darling husband decided to hit ALL of them.
Like you, I will have to pick up the pieces knowing that it won't be easy but it will be better. The first day I don't feel a knot in my chest I'll celebrate success.
YOu nailed it V -
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
YOu nailed it V - insignificance, not important to him....
Its lukewarm.... not hot, not cold... not anything I guess. Things will get better for sure for both of us (you and me V - and DeDe and J and everyone else who is activly working to make a better life). Because even when things are OVER its better than what we had. Living authentically again...I love the concept and idea... it really does describe what I am driving towards... Becoming "Me" again.
V - to you - what does your "authentic life" look like? Tell me about it? What are you looking forward to? What do you imagine your life will be filled with? What activities? hopes? Maybe finally realizing some dreams that had to be put aside to "manage" your H?
Not So Fast....Va
Submitted by kellyj on
I am angry because I am not the same person I was a year and a half ago and probably never will be again.
From a fatalistic point of view....I might say you are wrong here. Realistically though....your right but that can change I feel. Change to something else but not necessarily bad....just different.
As I read Stacey and your responses....and now coming back again to this "one foot out the door" topic again.
I realized why I'm so pissed off at my wife many times...but this goes right back to the "dissmissive avoidant" attachment and the co-dependent dynamic...if I entertain it or do that dance with her.
Assuming....this is not you....the same way I'm not...but have become more like that myself from being exposed to it for so long. I realized two components of my wife's behavior that are rubbing off on me.
a) Self fulfilling prophecy or self sabotaging behavior.
b) Ambivalence
Ambivalence.....IS...being "on the fence"...about everything. With my wife...it's kind of a "permanent state of being". This drives me absolutely crazy. This is where we have gotten into so many fights and where she keeps switching back and forth between saying one thing.....and then saying another....being contrary to herself and me at the same time. She is like a moving target that you can't pin down!!!! errrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!! This does make me angry sometimes but I now realize...what I'm seeing.
I also realize...she is approaching everything...from the top down.....and I'm approaching most things....from the bottom up. Two opposite poles. Her appraoch always has fear involved and worrying about the future whcih is the polar opposite of me. As I see it...;.her appraoch contains always swomething negative or reason to say NO. NO first....and lots of maybes. Perhaps?"?? Maybe??? Could have...would have....should have...suppose to be.....in everything.
I also realized...that she is almost in denial or allergic of anything that has to do with her that is negative...so any topic that has to do with her....is in omission of the negative side. She reacts....negatively...if I say negative things about myself....;she reacts hostilely if I mention anything negative about her....and she reacts basically negatively...even mentioning anything about anything .....even if it isn't criticizing or complaining but just simply mentioning...the other side of the equation to make a complete understandable reason to do something or not? The not part is missing it seems...in how she see things.
So if she says she wants to do something.....and I see...where this isn't going to work out the way she thinks it is.....if I mention the part that isn't going to work...(logically) she gets upset and accuses me of being negative...by acting in a hostile negative way herself. The word "NO"....is enough to do it. That's me being negative in her eyes.
But as we try and discuss things sometimes....I realize....she WILL NOT take a position...either positive or negative....yes or no.....in making a decision. It gets insane sometimes to try and get her to tell me what she wants?
Do you want to do this....or don't you want to do this.
Then comes..."See...your being black or white!!!" errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!
Yet....she's actually the one who thinks in "terms" of black or white and only having two options. So in terms of only seeing two options to everything....she sits on the fence most of the time....and complains about me when I want her to made a definitive...decision. She seems...she cannot make a "definitive decision" about anything? Trying to make her or force her to give me one....causes her to get upset. But sometimes...in daily life and planing things....YOU HAVE TO!!!! LOL Either you want to do it....or you don't.....make up...your damn mind!!!! LOL
Her "see....there you go again....you're being black and white" errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!
I realized what this is...and it's Ambivalence in her thinking process and there is never anything she feels sure or confident in actually making a definite choice...about anything which is like sitting on the fence...indefinitely.
It's so weird....we'll be sitting together...or even in a group....and everyone comes up with say...what kind of Pizza they want. Everyone will actually say...what kind of Pizza they want....and she'll keep listing options with more choices.
"Ahhh...I haven't changed my mind since 30 seconds ago....when I said I want Pepperoni....why do you keep asking and offering more choices.....WHEN EVERYONE JUST TOLD YOU WHAT THEY WANT!!!"
Honestly. She'll ask a question and you answer her. And then she will ask it again. Sometimes even again a third time as if you're not sure. But she's the one who's not sure...I know exactly what I want??
By the third time she asks me the same question...and I've already answered her twice with the same answer.....by the third time I say the same answer....I'm usually getting angry by that time.
"YES....PEPPERONI GOD DAMN IT!!!! For crying out loud!!! How , many times...do I have to answer the same question with the same answer...to get you to STOP doing that!!!!! errrr!!! Why don't you go clean the wax out of your ears!!!!!" lol Said in frustration.
I don't actually say that...but I feel like saying it sometimes and that's right to the point I'm trying to make. This Ambivalent kind of processing and inability to problem solve....or seem like her can't seem to make up her mind about anything...starts to rub off on me and come out has irritation on my end.
And then she reads my irritation...and then accuses me of the one being hostile or angry but I wasn't angry....before she asked me the third time about what kind of Pizza I wanted and gave her the same answer each time....but yet....she will just continues to throw more choices out there...as if....she thinks, .I don't know what kind of Pizza I want??????? When I just told her 3 times ....that I WANT PEPPERONI!!!!" LOL errrrrrr!!! lol
To me....this just feels like I'm being badgered, questioning, doubting, not believing me or like....I don't know what kind of Pizza I want...and I'm being undecided.....LIKE SHE IS. errrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!
See....there you go. I'm angry because of this circular reasoning and being completely Ambivalent about everything and wanting to pin her down. But trying to pin her down...and make her be decisive....is me being negative or worse...being hostile. But the problem is....I wasn't hostile...before she started doing this back and forth...can't make up her mind...and can't be decisive and having to go through this being asked multiple times the same question...with me giving her the same answer...and if I do anything or say anything to her because this drives me absolutely crazy when she does this.....I'M THE ONE...BEING HOSTILE OR NEGATIVE...only because of this self sabotaging self fulfilling prophecy that ends up with me being angry with her ...but then all she sees is me.....as the angry one or being negative or hostile. But I wasn't that way....the first time I said...."I want Pepperoni".
She brings this on herself every time but here's what I haven't said before in this way. If you are reacting to this logic chip missing...and you are being driven nuts...over this yourself....you ARE getting angry and you ARE giving the other person what they want by being a part of their own self sabotaging and Ambience by doing anything other than stay calm and not get upset about it yourself.
Because if you do....you are playing right in to it and now they have ammo to use against to if you react or show irritation or voice that you don't l like it.
One way to look at it....is that your Fucked....because...this is true up to a point. But if you change that attitude and opinion of being Fucked....to something else and still not try to approach this or react yourself....you won't be Fucked...and you won't feel like your Fucked...if you see this from a different point of view.
And seeing it from a different point of veiw...is just accepting and changing your relationship to what was "Fucked" to something that isn't Fucked anymore.
And you will change who are now...to something different like I said. It won't be the same as it was....but it won't be bad either. Instead of seeing it from a fatalistic....I'm totally Fucked....point of view?
This is what was making me angry and for good reason .....because it does drive me nuts sometimes But I WAS.....the one getting angry with her and she WAS... seeing me get angry even if she didn't understand her part to play in this.
I'm thinking...don't be angry or you'll act angry. But knowing WHAT is making you angry and why....you do need to figure out. For me....this was one of the common sources but I'm seeing it differently now.
J
Apples to Oranges....A Visit to My Therapist
Submitted by kellyj on
After returning from my therapist today....I had a chance to talk to him about all the new ideas and possibilities that have come to light more recently with my wife and I and everything I've learned. My wife wasn't feeling well (as she said...I do believe her and I don't think that was an excuse ) but I think in part....she was feeling a little overwhelmed and was really not into going this time...but shirking responsibility and obligations is not part of her normal behavior either. She really doesn't like going all that much since it does dredge up the very things she really tries to avoid thinking about....but as I see it doing it anyway and going together with me normally...this lines up with the very thing that she shows consistently. with little change from what she has always expressed....that she really wants our relationship to work....but her fears and something she has not been able to express very well....has really gotten in the way of her feelings towards me. What we've got....is a somewhat complex set of things working against each other...and when I say "things".....I mean.....not each other as the people we are. My T ended up deciphering and delineating some of this for me today....once I began with him in mentioning some possibilities that my wife might be challenged with and one being ADHD herself....(diagnosed of course). I could have started a new topic here....but this actually fits right into context with this thread and is more of a continuation of the things I've already said here. Pardon the length of this reply...but this will better serve to include it here and give you an update from his professional opinion instead of mine. First....the mention of my wife having ADHD.....was taken under advisement. He brought up and mentioned the fact....that many more women out there are suspected ADD (inattentive especially) due to the way it is brought to the attention or anyone concerned...and seems to fly under the radar much more easily than with boys especially when they are young. The fact ( as explained) that the expectations of girls (more in the past especially) did not place on them the same need for concern when symptoms might appear to either teachers or parents...because of the prevailing attitudes which said....."girls aren't expected to do well in school or excel in education if "they are ALL just going to be lowly housewives and never need to work."
In our household growing up...this prevailing attitude did not apply. My oldest sister for example...was the one who set the bar for my other sister and I to follow. There was only one expectation in our household for anyone and gender did not make a bit of difference...and that standard was already there by the time I was born.
As it was....my oldest sister for example....was accused of plagiarism by her Freshman English teacher on a paper she had turned in that cause quite a ruckus. My mother who was fuming...and my sister who was livid...marched right down to the principles office and had a conference between the teacher and the three of them. My mother apparently read them the riot act...and demanded them to concede from this fallacious allegation since it was....just the subjective opinion based on that same prevailing attitude the teacher had with nothing else to support his claim. (stupid girl....tried to get away with copying out of a book )
To give you an idea...why that was so offensive to my sister and mother...was the fact that my sister had straight A's from the time she was in first grade all the way through college except for one B ever in one collage course. (that is except in gym class...but that doesn't count)
And the reason that doesn't count...was because my sister...did nothing but read books...both...as her only hobby...and then in school for school work. (except for watching the Mousekateers on TV....she had the official hat with her name on it and everything lol )
They also don't hand out Magna cum Laude's like toilet paper at major Universities either...and it is unusual, for anyone to receive a Masters degree in anything by the time they are only 22 years old. ( In English Literature nothing less. You should see the intern paper on that one...Ha! )
In fact...the only complaint I ever heard lodged against my oldest sister....was the fact that my mother had to force her to go outside and play and socialize with other kids...because she spent all of her time indoors reading books and doing nothing else ...almost exclusively. She is pretty socially avoidant...and is not comfortable around strangers or new situations.
To the point....that when my wife first met her...she said "your sister made me kind of nervous...like I was being watched..... with a suspicious eye..... like I was being judged...... and this made me feel afraid of her. She was really aloof .....and very guarded....... and extremely reserved..... and didn't say much to me .......and felt kind of cold and distant ......and not very warm or friendly as it felt to my by my first impression (OMFG!!!) If that wasn't the statement of the century....I don't know what else was!! LOL
This was the thing, that I told my wife, when we first started dating...that I felt vaguely familiar to me about her as well and told her that way back then. Despite the fact...that my wife and my sister...are like night and day in every other way....except....a few other personality features that are remarkably...if not exactly the same.
Such as (with my sister ). She not very easy to get to know and is very stand offish at first until she has a chance to warm up to anyone knew. Of course...I've never experienced this with her....but everyone else has other than our family.
She is very resistant to change of any kind and definitely carries the torch for out entire family. She extremely rooted in tradition...and is extremely based on conservative principles. My sister (in exception being different than my wife ) is fiercely independent and needs LOTS or personal space....and LOTS of down time to be alone. If she can't get those two things...she is not a happy camper. If she doesn't get her being alone time with a nose inside of a book on a regular basis....she gets really irritable and doesn't deal well. In fact...she doesn't deal well with new places....new people....surprises of any kind. And needs to plan things way in advance in order to keep herself in control. She's horrible...with spacial orientation...and gets lost easily...just driving across town. The same town she grew up in...and has lived in for 66 years. And she still gets lost and needs to have a map....to going anywhere even across town like I said.
She is also resistant to doing anything differently in any way or trying anything new...to the point...she refuses to read anything on a computer or cell phone and will only read out of paper books, magazine or hard bound copy....period. She is extremely regimented, exacting and precise and is like clockwork. Very predictable to the point....you can always expect her to do anything she says right to the letter and is very intolerant of people who go outside of a very set way of doing anything and is mostly intolerant of people in a general way since as she see's it....people are always doing things incorrectly and not following this set standard that everyone should follow. Trying to get her to bend or change about much of anything...is like trying to bend glass. It doesn't work...it breaks. And my sister is also fiercely protective of her ability to manage these things about herself...and highly unwilling to compromise herself to anyone. The one thing she is not shy about...is telling someone they are violating one of her boundaries in these areas and pretty much...doesn't give them any choice in the matter or room to negotiate. She is extremely structured, disciplined and exacting...to the letter of the law always...and is pretty intolerant of any variations to the rule or standards set down by her or by her principles that she lives by with little deviation ior variance what so ever. She is very strong willed....stubborn....and highly resistant to change or any kind...but her principles and her highly structured lifestyle that never varies or changes is the thing that she relies on for control and never vary or change from. She is highly ordered...highly structured....but....her spare room an office...is a mess!!! the only two rooms that are exclusively hers...is staked on top of stalks...of books of all kinds. Books are her thing and so books are what you see in her space and room. To the point....they don't have enough book shelf space...to even begin to contain the overflow of books which is why they are stalked to the ceiling in her one little room.
One of her main complaints about me of course...but we are not at odds about this. She has been...and always is....very accepting and tolerant with me even if she gripes a little and lets me know that but is never really angry outwardly. The problem with her is....you really never know what she is thinking or feeling...even if she is angry. She keeps that to herself...even with her own family much of the time. She's a hard on to read...but not so much for me of course. We share one thing in common that differs from my wife....my sister has a really broad sense of humor...and that silly humor that my wife doesn't get...she loves as much if not more than I do along with satire of any kind.
Anyway....if I start to line these things up between my wife and my sister...and take a closer look at the symptoms presented in inattentive ADHD as I understand them....what my sister does and has done her entire life which seems to be only an asset to her in everyway....is hyperfocus in the world inside her head...with her nose in books.
Books are her 'thing"...and reading is what she hyper focuses on...and it never seemed to effect her life in any detrimental way...since as a mother and home maker who is highly structured and regimented and never strays or varies in any way...she's got her routine down like no one has ever seen before...she got her structure down pat in every way imaginable....and she's never strays or vary from it including lot of personal private space and lot of down time by herself that is built into it in the same structured way. She rarely socializes...but that's not a probelm for her husband. Her husband loves to travel and fo do things alone...and is into his cars and into his baseball and is into the things he's into and my sister places very little demands on him as far as time or attention paid to her. He is happy as a clam...enjoying only the things he enjoys...which my sister has absolutely no interest in...because she's only interested in reading books and nothing else. For them...it's a marriage made in heaven for both of them...because lots of personal space...and lots of personal time alone to pursue their own interests is what is most important to both of them and since my sister didn't have to go pursue an income and spend all her time at home with the kids of alone by herself to read her books....she couldn't be happier because if she didn't have that or was with someone who didn't like that much time by themselves...she wouldn't be happy and neither would they. It's really the only boundary my sister has and really demands nothing else from her husband except LOTS or personal space...and lots of time alone to read which is her "thing."
But there is that thing that she shares with my wife and that thing that my wife noticed about my sister that made her feel very uneasy, kind of nervous and instilled some trepidation in her as she told me what she said.
The way I would describe it....would be in terms of....an "Aire" they have about them that is remarkably...if not exactly the same...
Aire - old Irish ...act of guarding, watching over, tending, caring for; notice, heed, attention”) OMFG!!! again LOL
I'm going to need to move this to a part two in order to connect some things together....but the part that I need to connect to this....is what has been referred to as ....my "Energy"...to.....this "Aire" I feel that my wife and sister both share.
And without going into this any further....if my wife and my sister..;.both share inattentive ADD and this "Aire" they put out....in theory at least......this "Aire" and my "Energy" are the very thing in conflict along with the attachments styles that differ somewhat. As I see my sister and my wife....they are both in the avoidant but my sister is fearful and my wife is dismissive as I see the distinction in the avoidant category which is why their habits appears to be identical in the ways I described even though everything else about them is completely individual.
The thing that really stands out to me here is this. Men typically...tend to fall into the avoidant category in general...and women tend to fall into the anxious preoccupied one.
And as it has been said about my wifes ex husband...who she says...never had the problems she has with me in hitting up against her buttons. Without going into the details of why I can say this.....he was avoidant too...just like she was. You had to avoidants together...and they didn't have the same problems except for one fatal HUGE one. There was never any resolutions to any problems they had..since resolution is not the goal for an avoidant personality.
As it with my sister and her husband.....they don't have any problems to resolve between the two of them since they are both avoidant without any problems. No problem right?
Now put an anxious preoocupied's "everygy" and anxiety with an avoidant....and that's a problem. The same as this "Aire" that my wife has....is a problem for me along with never resolving anything ...because that's the entire goal a life mission it seems for an anxious preoccupied because that anxiety...never goes away...until it gets resolved and never gets resolved...with an anvoidant...who avoids conflict or conflict resolution...by their very nature.
Two opposite poles....diametrically opposed to ever meeting in the middle. It kind of a mathematical improbability.
Except...for the "Mission Impossible".....of the anxious preoccupied. Using that reference as in the TV show where they actually did do the impossible...and referencing being Fucked...and being angry about it and getting right down to the core here of what's behind the anger......
In my therapists own words......"with a Porcupine.....you will get no where ever when the quills are up. You can't talk to it.....get angry with it.....or even pet it nicely. You can't even blow on it.....you can't even look at it!!!!! You can do nothing with a Porcupine....until the quills are down. NOTHING. Not even blow on it or look at it. You dig?"
I dig!!!! My anxiety....is not EVER going to go away or be resolved in these moments or even for a very long time about anything we have conflict EVER. Like he said....don't even look at a Porcupine with the quills up let alone...try and talk with it....touch it....smell it.....pet it.....or even be nice to it. Don't even blow on it....as my therapists said. LOL As he put it...."Leave it the Fuck.....ALONE!!!!!"
My anxiety...is irrelevant....to an avoidant personality in FACT.....my "anxiety" comes in the form of what is called my "energy" ...and my "evergy" is the very thing that an avoidant doesn't;t like and wants to get away from I'm Fucked in terms of MY anxiety because of how the "Aire" of the avoidant Porcupine is designed.....by nature.
That "Aire" of the avoidant....and the "Energy" of the anxious preoccupied...is like putting a lit match...to a can of gasoline. Don't even look at it with that energy if you don;t want trouble.
So the mission impossible....is to eliminate...all sign of anxious nervous energy and reduce those physical manifestation, tone of voice or any traces of anxiety completely from the scene.
As my T left me with this very clear and understandable message....between the two attachment styles....the burdon falls on the anxous one to change because the avoidant one will not change ....until that anxious energy is gone completely. It's not fair....but it is what it is.
I dig...Mission Impossible....but I can do it as long as I know exactly what to do...and what not to do....and today.....I got it in my head as clear as clear can be,......MY anxiety is the first thing that HAS got to go....whether I feel it or not.....I need to keep that completely awat from my wife or she'll do what she alwats does. Avoid it and dismiss it as irrelevant and annoying and will avoid any understanding or conflict surrounding MY anxiety. Period.
I'm only Fucked....as long I can't find a way to deal with MY anxiety. It's the very thing that my wife is so callous and indifferent to....not me as my T explained this to me much better in a way that I can understand it....not the way my wife explained it to me which is why I couldn't;t understand anything she was saying to me before.
This makes sense.....my wife....does not. LOL
J
What To Do With a Porcupine???
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to add a couple things to my last post about this "Porcupine" character and some things my wife just said to me last night when we were discussing what my T had said. I told her everything I wrote her aside from a few details. It was funny...and so predictable now I can see this better.
She asked and wanted to know about what I had discussed....but out of no where, she just had enough. She asked me...and wanted to find out more...but when she hit that magic line....she shut down abruptly. I did not anything to cause this....she had just reached her limit and when she reaches her limit....BAM. Time to stop.
It doesn't matter if you are in the middle of sentence...or if you've even finished saying what you've said. When the timer runs out of time....Bam. Stop now....or the quills come up. And she did even throw at me right at that moment....how "I" always do this?
Do what?
"Don't start!!!!!!!!!!!!"
And I didn't. I could sense the tension which means....she had just reached the end of what she could do but in the moment.....I was still doing something to her even though....she was the one who actually initiated the conversation and I wasn't going to say anything.
But before that happened....she did tell me the thing about her husband and how they never got into these situations. As she said it " He could just read me and tell to stay away from me once he learned how"
I said (in more words but not many) "It's not that I don't know how...or can read you feeling tense....but if you ex was avoidant....it's not that hard to him to avoid you when he senses your irritation since....that's easy for him to do. The last thing he wanted was to engage you and since resolving any prolem's you had....was not his goal in leaving you alone. His goal...was to get away from you himself. The two of you....were both...making yourselves feel better by avoiding what ever you were talking about? Right? And he would just stay away as long as he had to.;...until he senses the coast was clear? Right? It wasn't that he had to learn how to do this....he did that on his own because that's what an avoidant does the second they smell a problem coming...just like you? Right?"
Then I reminded her...of the numerous issues and problems that she said they had ....that led up to them splitting up and getting divorced and how none of those things ever got resolved or talked about. RIGHT??????
Then...I made one attempt....to say " Look....if you can understand how you feel...when you sense my anxiety coming up....since you have used the terms...."aggitated" or any other descriptive term that you say what it looks like to you....but can you in those moments.;...look past what it looks like to you....and just KNOW...that my anxiety and the reasons I get frustrated and ulitmately get angry as I have in the past....is simply because we never get down to resolving anything....and when I try out of my own anxiety....you stop me and shut down. It's the stopping me and shutting down...that makes me angry....my anxiety is not anger. In fact....I'm never angry when I approach you with my guard down and open arms and want to discuss things with you. It's the stopping me...or preventing me from resolving things with you...;.that makes me anxious. And I'm not saying you are responsible for my anxiety.... I am asking you..... to just consider this...instead of being afraid of my anxiety like it's something to be afraid of. I'll never get angry if you don't shut me down and we can just discuss things? Right?" I'm now really understanding...that you are sensing my anxiety...and interpreting as being something else. I clearly understand this ...the same as I sense your irritation and tension and see anger coming and understand this is my signal to stop. Can you do the same thing with me...so we are both seeing what we sense....differently?" ( this was me being very calm and cool and talking very slowly and softly and we had been having a very good talk without any problems right up to that point. )
BAM. She was done!!! LOL She shut down out of no where....with that last part where I ask her to consider my anxiety when her radar senses it...and interpret it differently.
This is the Porcupine....going along and being Okay...and then suddenly out of no where....BAM...the quills come up.
What I now know...and what I did last night in light of this....is just to turn and walk away...as if nothing happened....which I did. For the next 10 minutes...I literally had to go walk around outside...until my anxiety level went down....from this expereince....as it always does. In the past...I might have even tried to say.."I see you need some time so I will just leave you alone."
That....was already too much. That would have caused her to blow a gasket and start spiraling. With a Porcupine.....NOTHING....means...NOTHING. Not ONE word more when the quills come up...... and they come up just like that...out of no where....unexpectedly.....and what ever is happening with me at the time...is completely irrelevant and then STOP...not one word more.
When I came back inside....I went to her and asked her if that was what she wanted me to do?
She said..."I've told you that repeatedly but you never stopped"
What she's always said...and repeated the same thing before countless times....was .."leave me alone"
Well...leave me alone...doesn't say that you have to stop talking completely that exact very instant and not say another word? It's like driving off a cliff...that you couldn't see up ahead?? LOL That's different...than saying..."leave me alone" She has never said any more than that ever....after countless times of trying to get out of her what she really wanted me to do. But in her mind....leave me alone....means Stop immediately and not say anything when she decides to hit the stop button at random with no warning like that.
I suddenly put two and two together going back to her ex husband. If his radar was tuned the same as her's is being an aviodant....I'm sure he sensed that a mile away...and got the Hell away from her....gladly....willingly....for his benefit as being an avoidant himself.
That was it....that was why they never got that far. Both their radars were tuned to the same setting and they both....simultaneously volunteered to exit as soon as possible. He wasn't mind reading her of learning how to do it....he didn't automatically just like her....and nothing ever got discussed, resolved or figured out ahead of time.
And because of that....when they hit that bridge that should have been discussed...but neither one of them wanted to discuss it....."Hey....I don't like this now....why didn't you do something to make this problem not happen????" Both pointing there fingers....at each other....which led them both....right to being divorced.
But the one thing she did say and I did hear her even if she's not accurate or not even close to being right. Each time I went past that line with her....I was violating that boundary....by even speaking one word after she hit the panic button...and expected me to be like her ex husband and turn and walk away without saying another word.
So I asked her again...."if that was Okay and what she needed me to do?"
And she said..."well...you did stop and that was good. But I have to get over all the other times you kept on going...before I will feel safe enough to trust you the same as I did with my ex....if that is what you are asking?"
All those other times...in any recent times going back quite a ways.;.was me just trying to end the conversation and and do it the way I said...."Okay....lets stop here"...or something like that?
And there.....not more than 1 hour later...she did it again. I don't think I was being anxious...but she did say I got up and started to move around and she sensed my anxiety"
She isn't realizing....she is actually sensing it or feeling it from me....literally by reading my body and watching how I move....She's doing this without even realizing she doing it...and watching every detail or tiny movement I make and that's setting off her radar and then she digs in and the quills come up the second that alarm goes off.
Her sensitivity meter is so finely tuned...that she's actually picking up any anxious feelings I have...which immediately go straight to .....Threat!!!! Fight in her case...which are the quills coming up.
There is no way I could have determined this to that degree and know that I need to just about face and walk the other way in order to intervene this? But it is a close as I can get....without recalibrating my radar and picking it up through the airs waves like she is able to do. I think her instinctual sensors...and stuck on high permanently and are reading everything...."in terms of defense.....just in case?" Literally. The meter on her radar is pegged at "better safe than sorry"...and it's been there for a very long time I think which as my T reminded me.....has nothing to do with me?
Anyway...for what it's worth....at least I know exactly what is expected of me. Now it's just a matter of practicing it...and getting over those abrupt moments of falling off the cliff without showing any signs that something is wrong? lol That's going to be a toughly to manage and pull off....but I did it last night and we continued on past that without a problem.
So this is related to ADHD...but it's not ADHD by itself...just so you know. And for that matter....I've never done this in my entire life (as I experience with her )...which is also why this seemed so bizarre to me and why..."leave me alone"...did not mean what I NOW know...what I have to do. Possibly for the first time ever...that I actually stopped this reaction...before it got any further.
J
I agree with your "angry"
Submitted by Shalott on
I agree with your "angry" list, Va. I want my self back, too. I really miss the woman I was, even as recently as last year. And I hate that my kids notice that something is wrong. My youngest asked why I am so mad all the time, and my oldest was crying and sick with worry the other night because she is afraid we are going to get divorced. I told her that isn't on the horizon, and it isn't because it's not what I want, but I honestly don't know how much more I can take.
I fluctuate between anger and sadness, and then I feel guilty about my feelings because he is able to hold down a job that pays well enough that I can stay home with our kids, and he hasn't cheated on me or done some of the other terrible things some with ADHD have done. But I feel so alone, and I have for years and years. If it isn't related to work, it's not important to him, or at least that is how it appears. He assures me that he wants to spend time with us, but it's just words. His actions say otherwise. He still has a completely different schedule from the rest of the household, despite working from home for almost 4 months now. I asked him why he doesn't want to be a part of the household and he told me work dictates his schedule. Funny, last time I checked you were the CEO and owner of your own business, so shouldn't *you* dictate the schedule?
I can't compete with video games, the internet, Twitter, or especially his new business. I pale in comparison to those things, and it makes me sad because I always have but I thought I could change it. It really hurts to know how wrong I was and to know how stuck I am now.