I shall attempt to carefully word my thoughts so they come across as critiques - - not criticisms.
ADHD. What is known. What is not known. Is it a way of being? Is it an "issue"? Is it a disorder? Is it simply a way that the brains of 10% of the people works differently than 90% of the 'average' people in the world?
I don't know. Wish I did. Wish I knew how to articulate how so many things we as a couple have tried . . . .and that did not work. Like most things in life, solutions read easy, and work hard.
I am so very glad each and every day for new strides that are made to give the sort of structures that will work to the person, parent, spouse of someone with ADHD.
From where I sit, I often get the feeling that is implied /: "What do you mean it's not working? THIS is the solution. This is how to do it. This is THE process.
And yet, it ain't. Nope.
Not that the books weren't pretty, and they weren't well documented, and nicely organized,
As an example, my son was given this book - to help him. To give him insight into his ADHD brain. ( Administrator: If this link is not allowed, I understand if you need to delete it:)
Copy and past that whole thing into your address bar, and you will see the front cover of a kid's comic book - - -made for kids. . . . .with ADHD. My son took one look at the cover, a comic book that he was "supposed" to love, and he flicked through the pages, and was overwhelmed. Too busy. Too much information on one page. Too many colors. He tossed it aside with a chuckle, "WHO made that book? Not someone who understand ADHD." Um, yep son. Specialists. They want to help. They are missing the mark.
Couples Therapy. Even without any underlying issues, the success rates are not all that great. For me, success is improving the relationship/marriage.
What has been missing for me: feeling validated. Clarifying each partner's prospective. Without making the other person the bad guy - the one who doesn't understand. We have made many attempts. It is so hard to not just throw in the towel. And give up. But, I will not. From Liz's perspectives, the "process" looks great. Reading. Homework. Charts to fill out. I did it all. It's how I function!!! It's what I enjoy. It's what I can understand. My ADHD spouse, he was overwhelmed at the idea of reading A-Whole-Book. He saw the charts. To fill in everyday. He heard 'homework to complete everyday', and blammo, he was like a deer in the headlights. In that moment - as during the time we tried it, I was pissed - - -at my spouse, for not doing, what he was not able to do. I just didn't know it at the time. I read. I did the homework. I filled in the charts. Because I could. Because it is how I function! Because I enjoy it. Because I understand. In hindsight, my spouse went into the process willingly - - and was pretty much set up for defeat. By the necessary reading. And homework. And charting.
And in truth, I think it exacerbated the issues we had.
I do NOT know what the answer is. I do know, that I want to be honest, and explain, this is not working. Because, well because, I do want to know. I do want to share the effectiveness. I do want to say, what we are trying is not accomplishing the desired end. Why not? Well it definitely has not one whit to do with the level of how much both of us are trying. . . .We are. Our damned royal hardest/different-est!!!!!
Sincerely,
Liz
I think my ex didn't want to
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I think my ex didn't want to have ADHD. But I also think that he didn't want to put any effort into not acting in ADHD-like ways. That is, he wanted changed behavior, but he didn't want to change his behavior. His most recent therapist would give him homework, and he wouldn't do it. He seemed to like talking to the therapist; that was easy and he enjoyed it. The homework (e.g., apply for one job this week) wasn't easy and he didn't enjoy it, so he didn't do it.
I analogize it to how I felt when I had an eating disorder. I hated being really skinny; I was embarrassed by my behavior and by my appearance. I wanted to be a normal weight and to be normal. But I didn't want to eat more. If I could have been given a medicine that would make me gain weight painlessly, I would have taken it. So how did I get better? A combination of the stick and the carrot: I couldn't leave the hospital until I weighed a certain amount, and I realized that being healthy and normal looking was worth the discomfort I'd have to endure to reach that goal.
Does this mean that I think people with ADHD should be treated in hospitals, against their will? Definitely not. I do think that having logical consequences for their disordered behavior might persuade some of them to persist in behavioral therapy, that is, not being rescued when they make big mistakes stemming from ADHD.
Symptoms of the problem
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Rosered,
I struggled with bulimia and anorexia for 15 long hard years. The first couple years 'it' was mine. All mine. My secret diet - or so I thought. I could eat all I wanted and not gain any weight.
Then I realized it was not right. But I could not tell anyone. Although, everyone saw clearly. I thought I was thin and beautiful, they thought I was too thin.
My spouse - who was then my friend - was the first person I told. Sorta. I told him I 'used' to have a problem with eating. Then, slowly the whole truth came to light.
And as much as I hated it, I loved my thin body.
I went to psychiatrists, psychologists, nutritionalists, I thought it was a waste of time and money to go sit in an office and have someone tell me what to eat, and then go back the next week and tell her how I could not eat what she had instructed me to eat. Or I'd eat, and then purge. I knew it was wrong thinking, I knew I wanted to figure it out, and it took a long, long time. Indeed the counselors told me at the very start - we can help, but there is not a quick fix.
There was even a point in time where I didn't want to let the counselors down, so I told them things were getting better, when they were not.
For me, what I learned, was it all had nothing to do with eating. Eating was just the symptom of all my internal struggles - no self esteem, self hatred, striving to be perfect so everyone would like me, I believed I was fat, ugly, stupid and no one would ever love me.
We then tool the focus off food and eating. We worked on Liz, and her self esteem. I learned to deal with my issues, depression, the affect growing up in an alcoholic home had on me, and as I did, my weird/strange eating habits disappeared.
I do not think ADHD is a symptom of a problem. I think the symptoms - disorganization, forgetting things, hyper focus, losing things, time blindness - are the symptoms of ADHD. You cannot eradicate ADHD. You cannot fix it. You can understand how your brain works. You can learn to accept that you cannot read the subtle clues that other are sending through body language - that maybe you have taken over a conversation, or that what you think is funny is really not funny - and possibly rude - to the majority. You can believe that someone who cares about you is having your best interest at heart. . . not to shame you or stifle you, but to make you aware of what you are unable to see for yourself.
So yes, we do learn things like 'it is not a wife's responsibility to fix the troubles that a spouse may stir up' - like the discussion in another thread where we were talking about a spouse/significant other not making 3 mortgage payments. Yes, it is not the non-ADHD person's responsibility to take over so that it never happens again. There has to be the place where the ADHD spouse looks the problem right in the face and understands they are not so good at keeping the finances, so. . . . . .they can set up auto-payments, etc, so that their spouse can feel secure in knowing that the bills are being paid when they are due, and has that confidence that their partner is fulfilling the things that were agreed to be done.
Very truly,
Liz .
I think that for some people,
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I think that for some people, ADHD behavior is the result, not the cause, of comorbid disorders. For my ex, for example, I think the anxiety and depression came first and that the ADHD-type behaviors developed because of the anxiety and depression. (I also think that for many people with eating disorders, starvation causes depression and low self-esteem and other problems, not the other way around.) And I do think ex could have vanquished the ADHD but that would have required him to do things he didn't want to do. I'm not saying this is true for everyone who exhibits ADHD-type behavior but I think it's true for some. Whether or not it matters in treatment, I don't know. Example: my ex probably never read an entire book about ADHD either. But he sure can read many, many words about topics he's interested in.
I've often wondered, like you
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I've often wondered, like you, if my husband's ADHD is the "thing" or the result of having had an LD diagnosed in grade school at the same time his father passed away after a short illness. He lost his mother at 18. Both to cancer. Mom coddled him after his father's death, then developed a new relationship which took her time and energy, then, of course, her own illness took the front seat. It was a roller coaster to say the least. I really can't say if the ADHD behavior is the result of some mash up of depression, anxiety, PTSD, attachment disorder and LD or a standalone disorder that is causing the problems. ADHD treatment may work for him but I really, truly think he needs to address the other issues first and the ADHD might be mitigated. What I'm not going to do is try to diagnosis him myself and develop a course of action based on an armchair diagnosis.
As pointed out, I also wonder out loud what would happen if we DID go through this whole process together. Would it be successful? What is the success rate? I laughed out loud when I read about the charts and lists. I spent a couple of years of married life maintaining two sets of lists and calendars, one of which (guess) was totally ignored. I've read all I can find on ADHD. My husband won't open a web page and read a single paragraph.
I really think that this is
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
I really think that this is the case with my husband. I believe his ADHD is the direct result of coping mechanisms he developed as a child/teen to survive the abuse he went through. I think he might have been born with some of the tendencies (we ALL are its just a matter of degree I believe) - but the depression, disassociation and other issues born from the CSA is how his current pathology developed.
I also dont think he WANTS to be this way, but he also doesnt want to make the effort required to create real change.
I just do not understand the whole psychology of things
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Rosered,
I grew up in a home that did not have a label for the proverbial 'elephant in the room.' Something was amiss. Something did not feel comfortable. Something did not feel right. I had a great childhood, and than things started to change. I got into 8th/9th grade, and started to get that teen angst that accompanies puberty, along with realizing that something was amiss in my house. Without the healthy input from my family, or teachers, or friends . . . . .I deducted the problem was. . . .well, it was me. I was fat, stupid, ugly, and couldn't get anything right.
I graduated high school, went to business college, and got a fulltime job in the accounting department of a local corporation. Somewhere along the lines, after starting the job, the way I coped with my issues (and believe me, I had no clue at the time) developed into eating disorders.
I became good friends with one of the gals in the office, and while I do not remember a single specific of any conversation we had, she connected all the dots, and introduced me to her friend, who took me to my first Al-Anon meeting. . . .and from there the journey of self realization began. . . . . and has continued to this day. It truly took that long, to discover how alcoholism affected my life, and my family's life. The word alcoholism was never used in my childhood. I am fairly sure I had never even heard of it. The more I learned, the more I understood how it affected me and my choices, and my self esteem, and how I saw myself.
Lots of people drink. Lots of people do not drink. Lots of people do not develop alcoholism.
Everybody eats. Lots of people overeat. Lots of people do not develop eating disorders.
I am one in a family of eight children. Some of us have never used alcohol. One of those is me. I am the only one who develop anorexia/bulimia.
Several of us, the eight siblings, have depression .It is a chemical imbalance. Depression is a genetic trait, from my maternal grandmother, to my mother, to us. It is very mind boggling to comprehend the chemical depression, and how it can be affected by situational depression. Something to continually be aware of in my life.
I learned to manage the depression. I learned to eradicate the eating disorders. I learned to accept and love myself.
Much like my hindsight, with absolute clarity, that I can use to look back and see the affect alcoholism had on my life, the same happened with ADHD. It brought to my sense of being, the knowledge that I was developing my own behavior patterns to live with other people's disorganization, procrastination, poor time management, chronic lateness, misplaced items, and what I saw - before I even heard of ADHD - was rabbit tracking from project to project to project, thing to thing to thing, along with too many irons in the fire, which grew into a huge burden of unfinished projects.
If a person comes to the realization that they cannot stop drinking, or that they eat too much/binge and purge/starve themselves, they learn the steps to recovery. I see there is no wisdom in teaching anyone how to be an effective alcoholic, or how to be an effective anorexic.
ADHD is not a coping mechanism. ADHD is how the brain is wired. There is much wisdom to be found in discovering that poor time management, forgetfulness, disorganization, , lateness, and procrastination have negative effects on your life, and your relationships.
It is critical to find coping mechanisms. ADHD awareness helps a person become an effective person with ADHD. It is a way of life.
That is how I see it anyway!!!
Sincerely,
Liz
Some people theorize that
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Some people theorize that ADHD is a brain-wiring disorder. Other experts do not believe this. Until such time as it's possible to look at the brain of every person, those with and those without ADHD behaviors, I will be on the fence, too. And even if it is a brain-wiring disorder, there is much research to suggest that people can rewire their own brains.
Research leads to many different conclusions
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Rosered,
I have read a lot about ADHD. I had "handbooks" from the late 80s when my son was in school, that we had to toss because the research was so outdated.
What I do know for sure - if the ratio of ADHD across the board is one in twenty-five, 4 people out of a group of 100 navigate the world very differently than the other 96. Thus any - possibly all - techniques for schooling, and learning and social awareness, are different in 4 people out of the 100. That is neither good nor bad. It is just different. Awareness is what is important. I never knew about alcoholism until I was in my very early 20s, yet up until then, I lived with it my whole life.
With ADHD, my son had the benefits of knowing how his brain was different from a majority of his classmates. It was not a broken brain, or deficient, or defective, just different. My goal in his school years, was to get him to accept himself, figure out to help him learn wha he needed to learn, and figure out how to assist the school system in helping my son. Just as there is a 1/25 ratio of people with ADHD, there seems to be a 1/100 ration of teachers in the public school system that understand it. It was a rough journey for me to navigate. I did not want to make excuses for my son, I wanted to find what would work best for him.
Same sort of dynamic for me goes with my spouse. I spent a lot of years trying to nail Jello to a wall. Because I did not know it was Jello.
Another thing I learned - no one knows it all. Even the medical field. My sweet niece was diagnosed with leukemia when she was 10. The kind that is curable. The kind that especially curable if it is discovered before puberty. 10 years later after fighting it tooth and nail - that leukemia took her away from us and straight to Jesus.
I think I am trying to get across - all people in this, ADHD/professionals/non-ADHD, need to listen to each other, and work together to figure this all out. I have listened to a lot of professionals. I have followed so many different techniques. The end result is NOT one side or the other is at fault, nor one side or the other can wash their hands of the situation - - - -but I would sure find comfort in, "I don't know. You are working hard. It is not your fault. I do not know the answer."
I choose to be very transparent. . . .very open. . . . . . . .very up-front about what is happening in my life. So someone may stumble across something that could be a key to a better relationship with my spouse. I do not want to just continually have to say say over and over over, this is what is happening - again/still/6 years later. . . . . . . . .
Very truly,
Liz
"Nuts" and "Bolts......." Liz and Rosered
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to chime in here and put my two bits into this topic from a different perspective.
Is ADHD real...and do other things cause ADHD ( it's a result of something else or caused by something else? ) I don't think so and I only read a few things that theorize that maybe it might be caused by some early infant external factors. I even read one thing that thought that smoking while pregnant ( and other pre-natal culprits ) might cause it outside of genetics. After listening to Dr Russel Barkley speak in his videos...I get the impression...that they aren't all that unsure that it exists or even for the most part..... aside from some of these out liars in the research that they not all that unsure of even what causes it in the brain ( doing enough autopsies post. That would imply that this results is not something that happens after you are born which is the consensus by those in the know at the current time?
Outside of Tom Cruise ( who doesn't count LOL ).....I don't get that even those in the field of research. study and or treatment ( doctors ) who be disagreeing with the diagnosis are disputing the relevance of ADHD as something that people have that makes them stand out from all other people on average are not saying it doesn't exist.....what they're saying or disagreeing with mostly is exactly what it is and how to treat it? Disease, disorder, condition....what?
What the articles that I've read are suggesting is more to do with medication and the rising numbers and concerns with misdiagnosis and mistreatment and just simply seeing a group of symptoms and not looking any further? Or...the other way around? Diagnosing one thing...when in fact...it's something else which in this scenario.....the something else is ADHD but the diagnosis is wrong?
My T just brought this up in his office the last time I saw him saying that Bi-Polar and Character Disorders ( as I recall ) are one of the most commonly mis dianosed conditions/disorders and are often confused even my the so called experts? In this case....I think most of the (experts doing this ) are actually Doctors as in MD's not experts in psychology or that specific field? One of my closest friends growing up had a father ( and his older brother ) who are pharmacists and they both one time when we were talking about drugs said that Doctors many times know hardly anything specific to pharmacology but have a more general knowledge meaning......the pharmacist know more about drugs...than the people prescribing them and this is a big problem as far as they are concerned and all the problems that they've seen over the years that come from these "mistakes" that Doctors are not so likely to admit to due to all the mal-practice suits and litigious climate out there. For crying out loud....how many of those bogus ambulance chasing attorneys do you see on TV telling you you might get money for taking a drug that has been found that one in every 10,000 people were found to have died or something really bad...because they took this drug and then that happened to them? Did the other 9,999 people die or have that happen to them? NO!! But just enough to recall the drug even if that many had a problem? One person who dies...is enough to rethink that drug for sure....but at the same time ( and I kid you not ) I remember one of those commercials going after the makers of feminine hygiene product that has talcum powder in it...and somebody got uterine cancer from it so now they're going after the makers of talcum powder to sue them for damages?? Like....how much of that stuff were they using for crying out loud!!! LOL Did anyone ever ask that? If they did..they forgot to mention that? Crap.....if I drank 3 gallons of OJ everyday....I'd probably develop ulcers from all the acidic acid from citrus fruit in my stomach if I did that for 10 years none stop? What...are they going to go after all the orange growers if that were the case? Give me a break!!!
The point I really wanted to make here is this. Just because something isn't one thing or another or mislabeled to only find out after the fact that it wasn't what they originally thought it was...doesn't mean it isn't something? ( or what they thought it was doesn't exist? ) That would be making an anecdotal error or blunder in that kind of thinking itself and approaching anything that way including ADHD? The point being that in the case of misdiagnosis and this kind of "God Complex" that is pretty well known with some Doctors ( which is actually taught in medical school ) as a means to stem off law suits and to instill confidence as a "bed side manner" with dealing with scared individuals who got something wrong that they are pretty sure they know based on the current understanding...but not absolutely sure which is always a possibility? They can't say that...but they can give you that impression for good reasons and not so good ones too? Why do you think they call it 'practicing medicine" ? When they get done practicing....let me know will ya !!! lol
And as I've done in the past...I will defer to what my T said about all of this ( again for those who might have missed it before ). He's a doctor ( or phd ) in psychology and I think he's pretty sharp? He also has what he calls ...a touch of ADHD himself along with only one of his two sons. As he referred to the one who has it in accordance to his other son on his behalf " no spawn of Satan himself could have been delivered especially.... to make my other sons life a living Hell at times" ( quote unquote lol ) This was years ago now since both are in college or already out and this was in terms when they were small children still and the differences between the two of them?
Bring this all down to this and what he said. But first...I'll ask my own question of you to help put this into context better?
How many times in your life...have you looked for something that you've lost before...and you looked everywhere you could think of and never found it? I'll bet ( like me ) you'd have no idea over the course of your life time? But then long after you stopped looking for it....you actually found it but it was of course....where you didn't look?
And as I see this and what really struck me most when I first came here to this forum? That while yes...the actual ADHD symptoms are mentioned or brought up....the problems and all the strife and conflicts I read are not about the ADHD symptoms themselves mostly? That's why I was scratching my head for the most part going...."this doesn't sound like ADHD to me?"
And what my T was saying about Bi-Polar getting confused or mixed up with Character Disorders as one of the most common "mistakes" in diagnosis? This isn't Co-morbid conditions and not looking further? This is actually calling something one thing...when in reality....it's something else? There are co-morbid conditions too...but this is on top of that to confuse things even more?
So....if you're with me up to this point....I'll repeat what my T said to me when approaching him about my wife and I and virtually everything that we run into problems with relationship wise? "If you want to get to the bottom all the problems you two are having....you need to look else where than ADHD for the answers and look at Attachment Theory instead." ( quote..end quote ) ie: "Insecure Attachment" and everything that goes with it.
As far as he's concerned....the ADHD symptoms are just the exacerbating components which are secondary to Attachment Theory, insecure attachment...and all the problems that most people are here dealing with as the source for your answers?
I could put this another way for myself and using my own experience and words to put this slightly differently? If you were dealing with a person...who had a very centered and secure attachment ( which begins 42 minutes after we all leave the womb ).....right from minute 42 in an onward progression...how our own mothers bonded and nurtured us from minute 42 after we are born during the first 2 years of our lives ( the part we can't even remember? )....has a Hell of a lot more to do with how we end up in relationships than does ADHD?
In theory based on everything know about ADHD and now about my own story and how that fits into my attachment style ( secure of insecure )....hypothetically.....if you were with a person who had that part dead on secure and was a perfectly grounded and centered person even with ADHD? I'm speculating that most who come here ( or have come here i the past )......wouldn't be here in the first place because ADHD itself with a securely attached and centered person would not be that the cause of what causes all the problems and conflict ....and I'm of the mind now....that is really ( even strongly ) in agreement with my T on that one?
Like the song says...."Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places"....I'm with him on that one....but that's just my opinion?
J
Sadly; this is the story of so many of our pasts....
Submitted by c ur self on
( I was pissed - - -at my spouse, for not doing, what he was not able to do. I just didn't know it at the time.)
Me too Liz...Me too....
C
I guess my problem is that I
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
I guess my problem is that I know my husband is perfectly capable - as he demonstrates all the time for OTHERS, or for things that interest him or benefit him. However, when it comes to me - its just too much effort....
I was angry that he didnt give me the same consideration, priority or "care" that others got. Or that same attention to detail that he can demonstrate with his video games he cannot demonstrate for our relationship or anything concerning ME.
I was angry - very very angry. Now I just have stopped caring. I love my husband - but I am wiping my hands of everything to do with him so that I can move on.
What I want and need
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Stacey,
My goal, what I strive for, is to find a way to live in harmony. There are aspects of things that are very hard for me. I am not assigning blame to my spouse.
He is very attentive to others. . . .as am I. Because they have no skin in the game. We are free to do for them, and help them, and get back what ever pats on the back get. Then, they are gone.
Working things out for the long run. . . .that is hard.
I do not like living 24/7 at work. The construction business is always present; be it supplies, book work, phone messages, cell phone conversations, tools, etc.
My spouse is entitled to his own opinions. I do not share some of them - - - -so as much as I need to find a way to agree to disagree, I want to feel the same attitude coming back my way.
I do not want to debate politics. I have opinions in all directions on the current election. As does my spouse. We do not agree on some things. I do not want to convince him to see my way, anymore than I want to feel he is trying to get me to see things his way. Disagreements turn into who is right versus who is wrong, Not what I want. As long as things are not illegal, nor against my own moral conscience, we are free to do things as we want. I work hard to not allow defensiveness to cause discussions to cease. . . . . .if it would turn into looking and feeling a lot like anger, well, that is a different story.
I am not sure what part of ADHD is driving this difficulty we have. I fully understand how I dealt with conflict in the past, has allowed some unhealthy patterns of living to grow deep roots.
The tough part comes to the relationship side. Making stuff work for both of us, meeting half way where necessary, and each giving way 100% on some things that are very important to one or the other.
I know for sure, one of the things that my spouse found attractive in me was my selflessness. When we met, I thought it was a virtue.Over time, I learned it was not selflessness as much as lack of self worth. I put everyone and everything in front of me. Never said no. Changed and morphed into whoever anyone needed me to be.
I still have the quality of being a nurturer. And kind and giving. It is well balanced - I believe anyway! - with a healthy dose of self esteem. I think Liz is still Liz. A much healthier version of her on all points, physically and emotionally and mentally.
If the unhealthy aspects of Liz were what he found most endearing, I see that as a big stumbling block in revisiting any passion.
And, I could learn to live with that. It is the unknowing that keeps me frozen in time. We have a very dysfunctional existence in our house. There is not the freedom to disagree, or be upset AND THEN wake up the next day to a new beginning. I want to get that. Very much. A new day, a clean slate, full of possibilities.
Leave yesterday behind, with its problems.
I have come a real real long way over the past 6 years. Who knew? Not me.
Very Truly,
Liz
Thank you
Submitted by DependentOrigination on
I sat a bit on Wednesday night, and thought, for a long time about the fact that now that I know what I know about ADD, how does it change what I want. Let's face it, my expectations are out the window. My husband will never be a father figure to my daughter. I will never get the "family around the dinner table" life that I wanted for a few years. So, knowing this, what do I want.
This is what I want:
I want my husband to just understand (a teeny tiny bit) that he has different ways of being. And that sometimes his different ways of being make a bit of difficulty in my life. And that sometimes, when I react with anger or impatience after not doing so for days and numerous insults and boundary violations, that maybe, I have a reason. And deserve a bit of compassion myself. That he just trust me, a little bit, on this issue.
That's it. In the end. That is all I want. I think I can cope with the rest (only time will tell).
But maybe, this is just another escape, a way of avoiding myself and my own discomfort. And maybe I should let go of this too.
L.
Sacrafice
Submitted by weighted on
DependentOrigination you said, "I want my husband to just understand (a teeny tiny bit) that he has different ways of being. And that sometimes his different ways of being make a bit of difficulty in my life."
I want that from my husband too. I want my husband to see that I continue to sacrifice and live in my greatest fears so that my husband doesn't have to live in his. It is the continual sacrifice of my wants, needs, and desires because he is unwilling to face his fears and sacrifice any part of himself.
I get this
Submitted by jennalemone on
This is how my marriage started out 40 years ago. Women were encouraged and told our best aims was to be this way. SACRIFICE. SELFLESS. HUMILITY. HELPMATE.
It was the "wisdom" of the time that if women "supported" their spouses with feelings and ego, that the spouse would be happy to support us financially.....since the earnings card was usually in the pockets of male earners.
I get what weighted is saying. We sacrificed our own well being for the sake of love, family, partnership. Some of us were rewarded with a grateful sharing spouse. Some of us have a spouse who cannot see what we have done and believe that they did it all themselves. It is a grief that we feel that we don't know if we can trust our own intuition since we "fell" for "the way it was supposed to work."
Yes, we have enabled our spouses to not have to FEEL their own pain. It was a mistake lots of us have made.
One of the hardest things for
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
One of the hardest things for me to deal with was that my ex wanted me to protect him from his negative feelings. And obviously one person can't do that for another person, so what it became was the expectation or desire that I would protect him from the situations that caused him to feel bad about himself. Even if this were a good thing to do, it wasn't possible, and then it seemed as though he got upset with me instead of with the situations (e.g., instead of looking for work, he got upset with me because I expressed my unhappiness about him being unemployed). Sigh.
Amen
Submitted by DependentOrigination on
Excellent points.
One of my big learning moments this last four months (I guess 6 months because the revolution started in May) was that no matter how hard you work, you cannot protect someone from them self. You cannot protect other people from that person. Not your daughter, not his kids, not myself, not himself. Even if it isn't his fault. Even if he is a good person. Even if he doesn't know he is doing it. Or you dissolve, you disappear. You lose yourself.
My husband used to be a total asshole, and then look to me to comfort him. Or make a big mess of his life, and then call on everyone around him to clean it up.
I have never been good with boundaries. And my husband tromps all over the ones I do put up. But not since May.
Maybe this is the lesson I need to learn. And I am terrible at learning lessons. Usually takes me 10 tries. I could have floated through life and never learned these lessons and not really known myself.
Good For You......... Jenna
Submitted by kellyj on
And NOW.....nothing up my sleeve...presto!! Comes the hard part. The part where your H starts feeling the pain...and he's not going to like it very much...I can tell you!!! lol I can tell you because....I'm living with this on a daily basis and my wife...is none to happy about that part. As long as you're pointing the finger at your H ( or when I was with my wife )...at least they've got some where they can put it....all back on you!! ( you just handed it to him on a silver platter...with an engraved invitation with your name on it ) You know that one....like the back of your hand right?
At least for me....once I was able to leave that pain where it belonged ( with her ) and gave her no place to put it...she has to live with it now and with that.....I can feel that coming from her so thick.....you can cut it with a knife. I've got it where...she's afraid to say anything..because it will end up making it worse..not better to do what she wants to do. But now...there "IT" is? Now what? OUCH!!! It hurts.....as it should be. That's the only"SHOULD"....that's suppose to be there and the only choice now....is do something with it? Again....as it should be. Having never had to do this before....my wife HATES it!! And sometimes....she hates me for doing that "to her". LOL As long as she remains a victim to "IT".....she'll think, I'm the one doing this but I'm not. That's her pain...not that I'm making her feel this way.....but she as yet...to figure that part out yet?
"All in good time my pretty.....all in good time. Ah...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! " lol Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzel, Drome....time for Dorothy...to come home. ( and look to see herself...behind the curtain ). :)
J