I'm non-ADHD wife married to ADHD man with 2 previous marriages, 2 children from each (all adults now). Being older we have no children from our marriage. We've had all the usual ADHD problems around chaos, time, chores, anger outbursts etc, and I can mostly deal with this stuff. What really gets to me is that I'm the last priority after the 4 children,especially the first-born--this seems to be his primary relationship, and the person with whom he shares his feelings by email (what a bitch he's married to etc). I just don't seem to count, except for keeping house and occasional sex (I'm not very enthusiastic any more). This is wearing me down so much, that I just feel miserable and depressed, and want to escape. I just don't feel like I'm part of a couple at all, so what am I doing here? I can't find any postings on the forum like this, so perhaps this situation is not related to ADHD. Can anyone relate to this?
Children from former marriages
Submitted by frodo on 07/17/2017.
Yes, I can relate, Frodo
Submitted by Chevron on
I suggest that you research "stepmother" and "second wife," as separate topics. No matter that to him you're his third wife, it's the not-the-birth-mother-of-the-childen situation that you need to research. I wish that I still had around copies of some things, a blog on the matters by a stepmother, some sociological research on the place given in the family to the person who isnt blood related and comes in later. But checking, it looks like there are plenty of short pieces online about the non birth mother wife, and I'll bet there are useable books to buy about it.
What mattered to me to learn were that children, both younger and adults, give their father more of a break fo remarrying, than they do their birthmother or their father's new wife. I'll leave why that may be to the shrinks and armchair shrinks.
Second, his children are his children; generally go lightly with any attempts to discipline or criticize them; he has a long relation with them and they are after all, his children, not yours. As your spouse, he has a moral responsibility to treat you with dignity, before them, and to require them to treat you with respect if they do inappropriate things to you, but only some men do that for their non birth mother wives (or birth mother wives)
There's a piece of it that is your responsibility to figure out and carry out. Establishing your place in an already existing family, or in your husband's case pieces of more than one family, doesnt only belong to the husband and to the adult children to do. You will need to decide what you want to be, in the family, within the possibilities of the personalities involved. Some of it you'll have to do by yourself, with no help from him or the kids. And here's the hard part, or it has been, for me: you will need to be the one to act consistently with what you've decided for yourself, because they're going to have to see you in that role for a long time, before they respond to you in your role for you, and not theirs for you. Because your husband has ADHD, you may well have to insist on what you will and wont do, as calmly as possible, because he wont easily get what you're talking about.You mentioned adult children, but not whether or not any of them had ADHD. Wherever there's ADHD in the family group, there may well be weaker ability to notice you as you go about your ways, and so the understanding that you're not just a servant, a nonentity, a wicked stepmother, or whatever else might be in their mind, will come slower.
If we were offline, I'd want to take your hand and hold it as I say, "yes, Frodo, I know what you're going through is lonely"
Here's a hug,
Chevron
Thanks Chevon. I definitely
Submitted by frodo on
Thanks Chevon. I definitely need a hug. Also thanks for the research suggestions. I will follow up. Not understanding what's going on is very insanity-provoking.
I think adhd could definitely
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I think adhd could definitely be a factor in your situation. I am the first and only wife in a 23 year marriage. I was ostracized out of my own marriage for the first 21 years. My husband preferred to spend time with and confide in everyone but me, even though I was the only person who stood by him and supported him throughout the entire marriage. His own parents treated him horribly and he still seemed to admire them more than me.
I can only imagine that being the third wife would compound the situation. I'm just curious. Do you feel that his ADHD was a factor in the ending of his first two marriages? It's a distinct possibility that his first two wives felt the same way you do.
Edited to add: my husband also prefers to spend time with our children over me.
ADHD was definitely a factor
Submitted by frodo on
ADHD was definitely a factor in ending his first marriage. Everyone else now disses wife #1--but I feel for her, and quite liked her the only time we met. Don't understand at all what happened with 2nd marriage. He considers it 'not a real marriage' whatever that means. He was desperate to have more children, reason he says he remarried. Don't know about effect of ADHD there. He doesn't have friends--maybe he thinks of kids as his friends rather than his kids, and that's why he prefers them to me. But they don't have to take care of things or live with him.
This rings a bell
Submitted by BigSurprise on
Hi frodo,
Although I'm not married to my non-ADHD partner ans we don't have kids, how you feel sounds very familiar. I'm not sure if the fact that you're a stepmother matters. Maybe it has to do something with how you both feel, and maybe not. But from what I've read and heard and studied so far, your relationship sounds like a very common non-ADHD/ADHD dynamic. You' the non, are a nag, asd therefore - bitch. The H bonds with children more, because they like how he them allows them more. And this happens, because you're the one who is able to predict consequences and who deals with them, so you feel like to must control the chaos, prevent disasters, set boundaries. He does not care about it as much as you do, so he's just a good sport, the happy-go-lucky one. And you're starting to grow bitter, sullen, and simply exhausted, which makes you nag more, which makes others see you as an even greater bitch, always unhappy, always sad, always angry.
This can happen to anyone, ANYONE, living with an ADHD-er, unless they take responsibility and start doing their homework, trying at least to managa the symptoms. Least of all, they need to acknowledge the symptoms and how they affect you, and find it in their hearts to believe you. Then you can move forward.
Of course, it's hard to say how much of that comes from some other things, like learned behavior, traits of personality etc. But I assure you you can find tons of similar posts all around the internet, and these boards too. Not to look too far: https://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/world-doesnt-get-it - you may find things here that relate to your current situation.
I know from experience how lonely that may feel even without children and fully-shared household, so I imagine it's so much tougher for you.
Please know you're not alone. In case that's how you feel right now, let me assure: how you feel is not insane and doesn't make you a bad person. There's only so much a person can take. I wish you the very best. Have strength and don't doubt yourself.
Thanks. I'm not aware of
Submitted by frodo on
Thanks. I'm not aware of acting like a stepmother towards his kids--they're just other adults to me. I don't have particularly 'motherly' feelings towards them, just like them as people (3 out of 4 anyway). Maybe somehow I'm felt as the intruder here. I wish he were 'happy-go-lucky' actually. It's more like passive, silent, depressed and angry. I'm the one with the 'let's keep things upbeat' job in addition to generally keeping our lives going, bills paid, all the grown-up stuff of life. Yes, very exhausted. And tired of the temper tantrums and being blamed all the time for making him feel bad, when I go to such lengths to try and make him feel good! So one-sided! I suppose his relationship with children is so much less complicated, little expectations on either side. I keep thinking that what I want back is the person I used to be before marriage. People actually liked me! It's very hard to live with someone who doesn't seem to like me-- I end up not liking myself--and accepting all the negatives that are thrown my way. Considering splitting up. This is hard since he is really my only family, and I DO think he is trying, just nothing seems to get better.
Do any of the adult children
Submitted by Chevron on
Do any of the adult children live at home with you and your husband?
I wonder if he is behaving with you the way he treated his earlier wives. It took quite a while before it felt to me like my husband was responding to me as me, not responding to his habitual expectations of and reactions to [ the person in the wife spot] that he learned in his past life.
If so, if he's reacting habitually with you as if it were a past marriage, youre not responsible for his past dysfunction. Lol you weren't there
What an uncomfortable situation for you. I'm sorry that he tantrums and, it sounds like, sulks,
Stranger in a Strange Land..........Frodo
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to chime in here with what I've learned on this topic and I think I can add some perspective or insight that might be of use to you. It's a lot easier for me to separate out the different dynamics at play here since I don't have children and I was the last born in our family. With quite a large gap between myself and my next sibling ( sister 2 ) and my oldest ( sister 1 ) who were only 2 years apart. I've also come to realise that ( almost positive now with the part of the story that I was told, minus the part of the story I was not told ) that I was an accident which on the part of my mother, was a welcome addition to the family and of course, by my two sistes who adored me when I was little. My father on the other hand ( in a different light here ) I fully beleive ( the part of the story that I was never let in on ) was less than happy with this new addition and this somewhat, unwelcome and unwanted new member of the family even though ( as I was told ) he was happy I was a boy or "manchild" that he didn't get the first two times around. Just from an objective stand point and how I see this all now, I can use some terms to help paint the "true reality" of the situation better and not go off the deep end and make it more than it was? I might say it this way as far as my father was concerned. I was the "consolation prize"....meaning "well, if I have to have another child brought into this somewhat perfect situation ( the ideal 2 childeren American family that ( I ) wanted ) then at least, he is a boy so at least, I got something out of the deal for me?
This is an attitude in what I'm saying and it became kind of the this unspoken fixture that seemed unusual and out of place which translated to "me"....feeling unusual and out of place? The fact is.....in his mind ( as my father wanted or better "didn't want".....there was "no place" for me or spot prepared in his head and all the responsibilities and duties that go along with it? This idea of "one place"....is a really important part in all of this? This has a great deal to do with a persons internal needs and drives and what they actually want...or don;t want...and making it all about themselves....or putting something "bigger than them" as a priority in their life? And without making this any longer than it needs to be....I had an interesting "seat" or vantage point in what was not a great situation for me ( specifically ) but also with a lot of opportunities on a more positive note. I really don't see this all that differently than a lot of the things being discussed in this thread so I am very familiar with being somewhat of an outsider, and intruder or a "guest" in my own family? Somewhat of an "after thought"....which in the strictest or technical sense....I was. The amazing thing to me ( from my back seat spectator position ) was how no one seemed to notice this ( the insider group or core family unit ) and how everyone was like on this one "track" with all the traditions and dynamics installed and going along nicely.....until I came along and upset the apple cart?
In a very real way....I made a dramatic shift or change in the equalibrium and now accomdations and changes or better ( repairs or having to put up with ) this "thing" that was upsetting the balance? The leader of the pack in other words ( my father ) was where this was coming from and the leader is the one in charge of "policy decisions", "general attitudes towards the family" and in the very essense of this "what is acceptable and what is not acceptable" and every one esle just had to go along with it? This pervasive kind of "attitude" comes from the ability to accept, change and adapt to a new situation well...and in my fathers case.....this was his worst and almost fatal flaw in his personality within his ability to do this? But in respect to my father....all the responsibility here to me or in "disrespect" to me.....was not all on my fathers shoulders? It really would be equivelant to having a guest or company over to your house....and you as the guest arrive and everyone is glued to the football game on the TV set, and nothing has been prepard for you ( or any effort given to receive you ) and it's like you walk into the room and the room stops for a moment and says "hey, good to see you...throw your bags on the floor and take a seat....it's the 3rd quarter and our team is behind by only 2." And then they all turn back to the game and become fixated on it again? And here you are, and you have NO INTEREST in football. LOL Here you are, the guest who was invited over or you told them you were in town for a visit and they said "sure, come on over it would be great to see you"...and now when you arrive, they are all glad to see you...no problem there....the problem is they have not changed one thing or done one thing differently in preparation for you, and.....the expectation is that you just assimilate into what ever is going on and somehow....you'll actually feel welcome to the point.....that no one told you that "well, it's okay if you come by....but it's play off time and our team is in the running so if you come, we really can't afford to miss one second of the game so....if you do decide to come by, our plans are kind of set in stone for the next week while play-offs are happening or until we know the outcome of "our team" and see who wins? Now take that scenario...and apply it to your entire childhood? And play-offs are happening until you're older sisters leave the home to go to college? It's not just in the sense, my father who was the source of this attitude.....but with no intention and more.....just obliviously unaware....of the new guest in the home and how that translates onto them?
This idea of a "stranger in your own house" or a "stranger in a strange land"....makes you feel very unwelcome, left out, an after thought or the "odd man out". Now add in ..."hyperactive ADHD child" and this is not a good situation for me....from my perspective? And really, if you are going to put yourself into my shoes here ( and join me as I am with you in a very similar dynamic ) you need to NOT....see me as the ADHD child...and just see me as a person or "outsider" in this case? I realize...the strain and all the disruption that I created as a child do to my hyperactivity.....BUT, you also have to realize that as a child expecially....I had no concept or any idea of this? I was just a child trying to fit into my family and wondering what this "attitude" was all about? I walked in off the street...into this weird and somewhat unwelcomint environment...with no idea as to why this was happening the same as you? And in fact....none of that was my fault of course....how can you put any of that onto me as a little kid? The fact is....you can't or at least.....not that part? That part was there, and would have been there ADHD or not? The ADHD...just made it worse ( for me especially ) and of course from my end now....on the ones ( or ONE ) who was not all that happy about company coming over and staying there permanently? It was both my parents responsibility...to make room for me, make accomadations for me and adjust the program accordingly?
This is where there was really a catastrophic failure in insight on my fathers part and within a certain part on my mothers part as well...but she was not strong enough to go up agains the powers that be or insist that my father "get over it" and "change that bad attitude". This is the part....that simply blew by my sisiters since they were the original ( the happy 2 children "preconceived notion" nuclear family unit, and in the inner circle that everyone wanted and everyone was prepared for ( my father as well ) so this attitude did not extend to them or to the point.....that they were affected by it at all? It didn't apply to them....only to me?
You can call this anything you like to make this easeir to see..for example: "your place", "your position", "your station", or anything along these lines? If this becomes your expected "place at the dinner table" and you are simply suppose to sit there and be happy with it...and no one has ever discussed this with you....asked you if "you're Okay with it" and just assume that you should be just fine......that is a catastrophic malfunction in assuming, lack of insight and further.....really being quite "vacant" or completely "near sighted" to the needs of the "new fixture" or permanent person in the family? And in respect to this notion or dynamic becoming "set"...and the "script has been written long before your arrival".....you walk in, and they hand you the script and that is now your role and place and that never changes? It really is like walking into a "play"...and all the players are already on stage doing their part....and now mid "play", the writers have to write you in and squeeze you into the story line somehow?
As I can see this very clearly now ( as well as confirming that yes.....this is what is a very common thing in family dynamics with my therapist ) this idea especially as "last one in" into an ongoing process already under way ...instead of scrapping the old script and writing a completely new one with you in it now, it really is more like my football game analogy where they go "hey, good to see you, drop your bags and take a seat"....more than you can ever imagine as rediculous as that sounds....it is closer to reality and the truth than one might imagine?
And that is exactly it and why this is so frustrating and is so mysterious? No one imagines this...no one thinks of it...until you are alreay there? And you...walking into this "play"...are kind of going, WTF??? What is wrong with these people....how completely rude and how completely oblivious to think...that ( I ) would be happy with this? And....no one's even bothered to ask me if this is Okay?
In reality...no one has done anything wrong and there is no fault here ( and really no one to blame ). It's becomes rooted into place....by the original design or the designers...and you were not in the picture at the time? The failure or not....comes with on the part of the desingers themselves...and being aware enough to be ready and prepard and predict what will happen before they you arrive? And it can work both ways as I discovered with my wife moving in with me? I was aware of all of this, and tried my best to accomodate with full awareness of it...but now, it you ( or in terms ) the guest....has high demands, high needs and needs special accomodations that you the host....was not ready or prepared for with no way to predict ahead of time....all those needs, demands, and expectations that go into this....come get activated the second that person walks in the door?
What Chevron mentioned here is so true in all of this when she said: " I wonder if he is behaving with you the way he treated his earlier wives. It took quite a while before it felt to me like my husband was responding to me as (me), not responding to his (habitual expectations of and reactions to........... [ the person in the wife spot]............ that he learned in his past life."
I have mentioned this before on this forum at times...when my wife is having a severe reaction or going off on me or upset...and I'm looking over my shoulder and going "who are you talking to?" And scratching my head? Like, as if....I was some other person which for me.....rang some familiar bells which I wasn't buying into. I'd walked a mile or two in those shoes before, and even if I didn't know who it was she was talking to or reacting to....I knew it wasn't me?
Like I said....I had this feeling like there was someone else in the room with us ( standing behind me ) that wasn't me and that is who she was really talking to and upset with? Specifically in my situation with my wife......I was [ the person in the husband spot ]....who actually wasn't me?
The stranger in a strange land in my own house? I can tell you this much from that "place" growing up in my own home.....that sucks harder than just about anything...to be treated as someone else...who is not you? Add ADHD to the mix....and this is beyond hurtful and disheartening? I certainly understand this and then some, if this is what is going on? In my childhood, it was slightly different in that I was the "unwelcome guest" or "unwanted in the first place". It does have a familiar feel to it though....but at least your "welcome" to begin with, that is at least a step in the right direction?
There is a really good audio I use to have with Echart Tolle giving a live presentation to a group somewhere in Scotland I think? And this retreat area of serenity, peace and personal growth ( blah blah blah ) was right next to an Air Force base...with jet fighters taking off all the time? So here all these people are...coming to this spiritual Zen kind of retreat...and there are these Jet Fighter planes screaming over head off and on during the entire weekend? LOL
And I paraphrasing him because I thought it was so funny but as I remember he said " So...here we are and we have these planes zooming over head making this terrific noise and it is so disruptive to our peace and calm...and as you mind is saying " but, but....this doesn't belong here.....this doesn't belong in my story....these jets are ruining my Zen space....they just don't belong here , make them go away!!! " lol.
And as he continues to say....that the jets and the sound they make...have nothing to do with why you are upset and why this is so disruptive? It's the fact as he said it...."they don't belong in my story...the one I had in mind of the way this should be." That right there, pretty much sums this up in a nut shell. And the problem as I found that can work either way? Even if I was aware of this and tried to talk to my wife about it.....she, wanted nothing to do with that talk or even discuss it. The act of even trying to discuss this....sent her into a tail spin which also rang some familiar bells for me as well? When someone has got that story, so rooted and so fixed into place of the way things "should be"....( which was my mom there for sure which did extend to my sisters too which they have shared with me....even more with them than me going the other way now ) If someone has built their entire identity and entire world around a fantasy or imagined story.....boy howdy, watch what happens when you come along and make them see reality instead!! LOL I specialized in that area with my mom at home and she was less than receptive at times but the fact was.....that was the role I ended up with from rejecting the one she had already for me in her mind? Actually, even she didn't have a really clear picture of what that was since....I was not part of the original program.....I was simply an "addition" to the script?
I can tell you one thing from my experience with being this person.....it can be a really entertaining thing and in fact, have all this insight to bring in to it...and simply watch the look on their face when you lay reality on them? I can see my Moms face even now? A "wide eyed" look of "semi-horror....bewilderment, and shock". Like she just saw a Ghost or something? LOL You should have seen the look on her face...when I came home and told her that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th?? YIKES!! LOL I can tell you straight up, I never revisited that conversation again!!! LOL
J
Living in your own story, in
Submitted by Chevron on
Living in your own story, in an intimate relation
...is not so easy.
For one thing, everyone owns his or her own story, whether or not the person has what outsiders would judge is a realistic or healthy story or not. So other people's story won't just go away....
I've been thinking about Frodo and myself; we both sound like we have stories of ourselves in which we're not persecutors, or failed human beings. Frodo, I've been told that I am both. It's not true. Most of the people I'm around treat me about the way that I see myself. I bet that's true of you, outside that house.
I want to talk about killing stories and keeping stories alive. It's really important to stick up for the best parts of oneself, that one knows for a fact are there, even if people around you are treating you like you're not you. You have to keep your story alive. It's a worthy story.
In ancient tribal culture, two different tribal peoples with stories that didn't match had about 3 ways to reduce two stories that didn't match into one triumphant story. Lurking under our belief that we are modern, civilized people, sometimes I think I see people trying to use these 3 really ancient ways of reducing two conflicting stories into one story, having one story win out.
a) Separation of the two tribes. That's a way to maintain your own story, and not have the hassle or danger of living in close proximity with another people who had a different story for you than you had for yourself. Separation...you and your tribe with its story live over here...and over here there's just one story, you don't have to even think about the other story; she and her tribe with their story live over there. When contact is lowered and distance is put between the two peoples and their stories, there's more peace because of that distance, the probabilities that conflict would break out go way down. Sometimes there's no living together.
b) Marriage. But marriage now doesn't work like it did in really olden days, in which women entered the story of their husbands, and left the story of their father's family; but men didn't do the reverse, drop their story and enter their wife's family's story. This one's not for me, in modern times. For one thing, I haven't spent my entire life either on the inside of my father's house or the inside of my husband's. I've been off making my own story for a major part of my adult life, and there's no undoing that I have that non-paternal, non spousal story that's part of me. Like heck I'm going to give up pieces of my identity that aren't my husband's story.
c) War. Doing whatever you and your tribe could do to kill the other story. Infiltration. Making the other story not work. Direct assault on the other story. The way that ancient tribal people did that was that, of course, they killed the other tribe. That's one way to stop a story from existing. You kill the people whose story it is. You knock down their cities. You destroy their temples and build your own temples on top of their temples. You destroy or exile their powerful people. You cut out the tongues of their poets and elders. You burn their books. Basically it was a rub-out of the memory, and capability to live in a story and carry it out, of another people whose story put your story into danger, or for some other reason made you and your tribe uncertain of your own power, or worried about their story perhaps contaminating your story. Gaslighting is a version of this that doesn't involve swords and knocking down buildings. It's an attempt to completely wipe out one perception and replace that perception with another one.
Those are very old ways of dealing with a story that gives offense.
None of them, as they functioned in old tribal culture, are functional, if what is going on is two people are seeking to
a) be who THEY are, not what someone is telling them that they are
b) and cohabitate in close quarters.
I particularly dislike trying to destroy someone else's story.
I came from a family that on one side of the previous generation was extremely harsh and judgmental, perhaps because on one side the whole wing of the family was second generation immigrant, and so struggling with the demands of the story they grew up in, in the old country; and the fact that the country their parents emigrated to frankly didn't act like the story that the old country told them to live in. Lest someone jump to the wrong conclusion that it was religion that made that whole generation in my family, especially, extremely rigid and judgmental, that just wasn't so. Believe me, religion is not the source of all rigidity, misuse of force, presumptuousness and so on.
It sure was a generation that resorted to force, in a variety of ways, to crush opposition to its story because it couldn't STAND for stories that didn't fit its story to exist in the households of that side of my family
Speaking for myself, no one else, it's hard won in my own life, other people will have to find their own paths forward, I see no good, whatsoever, in spending my time judging someone else's story and trying to gaslight the person or poke holes in someone else's story. Frodo, I'm so sorry that for whatever need your husband has, he's doing a number on you insinuating that you are the source of his emotional problems and immaturity.
The question, I believe, is probably something that Tolle got into, which is how are you going to find and live faithfully in your story... that's a far cry from being some kind of judge and judging other people's story.
That's where the rubber really hits the road. To be yourself, and to keep being yourself. Not to spend your energy picking other people apart or judging them.
It's hard to do that living in a situation such as what you described, Frodo. I've been there. Hang on to your faith in yourself and act as you see your best action is. It's the most powerful thing you can do. It's hard, often.
Same here frodo....
Submitted by c ur self on
We have a similar dynamic....Late life marriage's can be tough...If a person lives some what dependent on brothers, sisters or even children before you marry them, the marriage want miraculously make it go away...Close family members and friends are by far the worst enablers of unacceptable behaviors...But you usually want catch one of them living to close lol....
My W is clinical level, she is medicated (adderall) to help her focus at work...But her add isn't the problem for the most part...It's denial....She has never been able to see her self, and calmly talk about her realities....She is starting to, and it is slow and painful....I want to be loving and filled w/ Grace toward her, but this has to happen for me to stay....We have been married 9 years, and still have no healthy attachment....It's not about the things she wants to do or places she wants to go...It's the attitude!....Rebellion and being a miserable victim about the responsibility of being a wife....vs...happy go lucky when life is only about frivolity and no responsibility....You can't live Single....And be a Husband or Wife...It don't work that way....She was single and the Boss for 46 years...It's been tough on her....I'm not mad....I love her more than I ever have....But we are going to be married....(All in)...Or not...... Her choice....I'm fine either way.....You can't be half way pregnant....And you can't be half way married......
So many spouses are looking for (specific to their perceived needs) something!, but, not everything! in their later years (and some times in their younger years)....Assuming can get us in trouble!...I think you should set him down, with a written list of the behaviors that you feel or keeping you two from having the healthy marital attachment that you desire....Also consider you own baggage....Very few area's of conflict is truly one sided....It's just so much easier to see the other persons....Marriage isn't pick and chose as some of us would like to make it.....
I hope you can work this out....
C