Submitted by HalcyonLuna on 05/09/2024.
My partner (NT) very often says that I (Dx) leave him feeling invalidated when he brings up issues with me. He has stated that my initial reaction of getting defensive makes him feel like he's unheard and unseen.
I have been actively working on becoming less defensive when he brings something up to me, but clearly it has not been enough. I backslide sometimes into becoming defensive before I validate his feelings, and it's really taking a toll on him.
Would anyone be able to give me some tools or insight on how I can allow him the space to feel his emotions and help prevent me from disregarding him?
genuine question for the nons
Submitted by alphabetdave on
Does "the initial reaction" really matter this much? Don't get me wrong, I would much rather not have an initial reaction that is out of proportion to what is being said to me - neither myself or the OP are claiming that this is ideal.
But if this is only the "initial reaction", and it it's only brief, and it's only defensive (I am not excusing actual abuse), and if the ADHDer recognises it as wrong, and recants, and then validates your feelings - is this not enough?
This is a genuine question btw, not an attempt to accuse non spouses of being unreasonable in this area
I can only speak for myself
Submitted by shevrae on
and I've only been in a long-term relationship with one partner with ADHD (28 years and counting) but when I've agonized for 3 days over how to say something trying to remember all the rules I've been given about how to say something properly to minimize the chances of defensiveness and try to remove all emotion from the issue but I really need something to be addressed and he is immediately defensive - yeah, it's frustrating and discouraging. After decades of this it's cause for me to immediately end the conversation.
But my partner rarely has the self-awareness to realize that he's being defensive. And if I point it out, he rarely apologizes and corrects - he usually doubles-down. So my experience isn't what you are describing. Though I suspect that if you asked my partner what he does when he's defensive in a conversation, he would probably say he does something very similar to what you have said. He would say that because that's his aim - that's exactly what he wants to do. He just doesn't do it most of the time.
Really it's not that one conversation it's the way the defensiveness chips away at the trust in the relationship and it's a cumulative process.
And I know we're not supposed to take ADHD traits personally but he really only behaves this way with me and sometimes the kids. I'm often jealous watching him take feedback from others. They don't even have to be nice about it. And he listens to them. Meanwhile I'm working hard to be as gentle as I can and he immediately blows me off. Sigh.
understand this completely (albeit from the other side)
Submitted by alphabetdave on
Yeah this sounds like the flip side of my own experience at times. In my case (can't speak for your husband) it's just as frustrating for me - by which I mean my different reactions to my spouse, are very frustrating to me as well. For a long while I didn't really have any particularly close friends other than my wife and, it's something I've only really got back in the last year or so through connecting with other ADHD folk, and for me it's been really healing because, it's given me access to a side of me that I kind of lost, to some extent even forgot about. I'm able to be a better version of me with friends, especially ADHD friends because I feel more able to be a version of me that's fully authentic with no need to be ashamed or change myself in order to be accepted (note: this does not mean "no need for growth, ever")
It's endlessly frustrating that I can't just, take that version of me and apply the good changes to my marriage - I genuinely try but it just doesn't seem to work like that. The good thing at least is I don't completely write myself off when I do stupid things, so I do keep trying but, it's hard
Utlimately I think it all comes down to RSD - not just in the immediate moment but the long term effects. On my side, I've spent 15 years in a marriage being forced to accept that I'm not good enough in every argument we've ever had. Except, that's not true. That's not what my wife was actually saying nor what she was trying to get me to believe (at least not every single time) - but it's the consistent message I've heard, and it's a very recent realisation that this narrative was largely imposed on me by myself. RSD is cruel, it's almost like self-gaslighting in a way - you genuinely believe that the person who was really nice to you just minutes or hours before hand has suddenly turned on you and put you in an unfair situation that you can't get out of - and that this happens over and over again
Even after I learned about RSD and immediately recognised it as something I experienced, I had no idea it had been so prolific in my marriage, informed so much of my experience, my memories. It's horrible, and this is saying nothing about the experience of living with this from the other side, experiencing the backlash from these strong, misinformed emotions. I think what makes it so hard is - certainly in my case there's massive hurt on both sides. Both of us feel like we've been walking on eggshells the whole marriage, I haven't felt safe to express my emotions because obviously, often whenever I do RSD rears it's ugly head.
Point being, I recognise what you're saying - I wish I could say I was different. Sometimes I can be quite self aware and catch myself being defensive, stop myself before it's even pointed out, apologise and pay more attention. Other times, I'm consumed by some bad feeling and I can't see the wood for the trees, can't see how unfair I'm being in reacting to some perceived rejection.
I don't know what the answer is. I don't like the fact that it's almost like I live a double life - one version of me for my family and one version of me for my friends. I don't want that - but it seems to be really hard to change long ingrained patterns
Thank you alphabet Dave
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
AlphabetDave, you have NO IDEA how much your reply there meant to me, a non-ADHD in a 17 year marriage that has been decimated by RSD/ADHD in the last 4 years. Knowing a bit of your story and what you have shared, I have read your reply now 8x at least and it helps me to understand my husband (adhd, newly dx last year) and maybe what is going on for him. That doesn't excuse his behaviour of course, but thank you for sharing that, it could not have been easy.
My experience exactly
Submitted by BurnedOutLady on
Sigh.
Correcting it makes me happy
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
My ex could not really get past defensiveness but another important ADHD person in my life recognizes this trait in themselves and quickly course corrects, usually within minutes. "Sorry I got defensive there... sometimes my RSD still gets the better of me. What you asked was totally reasonable. I hear what you're saying about XYZ..." etc. It feels very good to me to hear this even after an initial defensive reaction and to be able to go on and have that conversation or start that project or whatever it was. For my part, I understand that there's a lot of automation behind the immediate defensiveness due to ADHD and if someone is working on it hard enough to become self-aware and take ownership, apologize and then move on to a productive exchange when this happens, that makes me really happy. Like you said... obviously that's when the initial response wasn't actually abusive, just defensive.
OP here :)
Submitted by HalcyonLuna on
Yeah I think what that one commentor stated about how it gradually chips away at the trust is what's doing it for my partner. He becomes weary of ever actually bringing up how he feels with me because he's come to expect the defensiveness as the immediate response when all he's looking for is for me to tell him that I care about how he feels and that I recognize what part I played in making him feel that way. Like,,, it's all well and good that I know exactly what I'm doing wrong, but I am so angry with myself for not being able to stop it sometimes.
I know that my response is a trauma response from how I was raised but I'm struggling to figure out how to stop that response from being the first thing out of my mouth lol
Just for a bit more info, we are both in counseling together with a couples' counselor and I am in counseling by myself with a different counselor.
Defensive but not aware
Submitted by Swedish coast on
The defensiveness of my experience was not accompanied by much self-awareness. As a rule, it catapulted as a quick pain reaction I think. There was no ability to neither control it nor analyze it or take responsibility for it.
So yes - initial reaction was pretty much also the final reaction. It wasn't pretty.
One cannot unhear the insults
Submitted by adhd32 on
And when the first reaction is hurtful for no apparent reason, yes, it really matters. The ADDer spews out hurtful things and gets their rush because they can't handle their feelings and the non is dumbfounded and heartbroken. The ADDer got their rush and then gets angry that the non is still crushed hours later. This slowly chips away at the non's self worth. If they said it, they meant it. Saying sorry doesn't make it right.
Listen, just listen
Submitted by adhd32 on
Listen to the comment and do not speak. Do not formulate a response. Just remain quiet and open your mind to the possibility that the person asking you to please run the vacuum just wants help to clean the floors. They are not implying anything else. They are not commenting on how they feel about you or your past. They are not secretly editorializing on your character or your past transgressions, YOU are. You are mentally bringing up unresolved feelings from the past and reacting to them in the current situation. The non spouse is often taken aback by spouse's overreaction and often feels unheard bc the conversation devolves into "you think I am incompetent and can't even...., you think you're so perfect" and off we go. This leaves the non spouse speechless and gun shy the next time they would like to talk about routines, or grocery shopping, or a really hard subject like overspending or their lack of a sex life.
If you are not in therapy, now is the time to get real. Work on your past and learn techniques to deal with all the unresolved childhood issues that feed this always smoldering anger and defensiveness that prevents you from seeing the big picture.