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There's lots to unpack in your situation, but I can say a few things that have helped me when anxiety starts taking over my thoughts. I go through a kind of mental check list to try and get my head in the right place and bring me back to center. I find it difficult to get the sleep I need, make good decisions and do what I need to do when I'm in a state. This only becomes a vicious cycle unless I can gain control of myself.
My checklist may includes thoughts like these:
- I only have control of myself, I cannot control other people.
- What are the sources of my anxiety, emotions, etc ...what are the triggers? ( if I don't know the answer, I stop amd reflect on what these might be ) In my case ...I know anxiety is just part of me having ADHD. It's something I have to focus on in doing things to reduce it. Excersise and lots of sleep help me for example.
-I know when I'm in this state of mind, I may say or do things I might regret later. Stop, wait, focus on relaxing and bringing myself down.
- Am I being my best self? Am I following and doing what I know is right? If not, what can I do differently?
This list could go on but I think you get the point. Back to #1 on the list. You only have control of yourself not other people.
FYI. From my own experience, Narcissistic type people tend to thrive on controlling and manipulating others. Maybe the preacher is the one who's the Narcissists here? Just a thought?
Thank you for your kind reply. Someone else has said the same thing about the preacher. My wife said she would retire in March so we can go camping more. But yesterday she told me she had changed her mind. I will be getting therapy next month. I have to let this run its course.
I think it's really unfortunate that someone is diagnosing you and your marriage without knowing you and possibly without having the credentials to accurately do so. This person obviously holds a lot of influence and you fear that any attempt to unseat this person from your wife's life will mean the end.
Having said that, you might consider reflecting on a few parts of your story that you can control. Your wife "withholding" sex, may not be that at all. She doesn't ever owe you sex and if she was considering leaving, it makes sense that she wouldn't feel right or comfortable having sex with you. I'm saying perhaps her choice is about doing the right thing for HER, not about withholding anything to hurt you. And if she's avoiding intimacy, there's likely a deeper issue she's looking to address in the relationship so arguing about sex is probably not the way to solve it. I would also suggest that printing off her private messages, videos and texts with people is a significant invasion of privacy. Especially in the case of her conversations with a church counsellor, where confidentiality is the expectation. Perhaps this is this kind of behaviour she is fleeing. Honestly, if I'd found out my (now ex) husband had put a recorder in my bag or gone through all my messages, I would have left right away. That's a huge breach of trust at best and stalking/controlling behaviour at worst. She has confided in a trusted figure about her marriage and that hs her prerogative. You can question and be upset about the advice she's getting, but keep in mind your wife was unhappy with or without this person in her life. She didn't get this advice after describing a blissful marriage.
In short, I'd suggest you focus on YOUR behaviour rather than your wife's or preacher's. Optimize treatment for your ADHD and keep working on yourself relentlessly to become a better partner - regardless of what your wife does or doesn't do. If she sees you're genuinely trying through actions over a sustained period of time (many months/years), that is probably your best chance at a happy future with her. Perhaps read about narcissists and reflect on the descriptions there to see what your wife and counsellor could be seeing in these descriptions in your behaviour. At 52 years of marriage, it took a long time for your relationship/wife to get to this point so give it time to improve. Please know I mean all of these words in kindness and hope that your and your wife can find genuine continued happiness together.
Thank you for your reply. My wife and I were happy until the preacher started counseling her. We traveled in our camper a lot. I have never looked at her stuff in 55 years. The narcissist information she was given information a narcissist uses sex to control the spouse. So, withhold sex to take his power away. I have never met this preacher. Once a spouse gets attached to someone and starts talking negatively about their spouse, it starts a slippery slope. My wife has mentioned stuff that never happened. She has used the filter of me being a narcissist. For example, last year, for her birthday, I delivered a large vase of roses. I usually spent $60 but I spent $175. She loved it! This year, she says a narcissist will buy something like this to control the spouse. But the blessing has been we learned how to talk and listen. We are in a good place but he is still trying to get her to leave me.
I want to add I have stopped looking at her stuff, and we are working on it. We have been together for 55 years. Since age 14. Married 52 years. Thank you for your reply.
If your husband is being told to leave you by a coworker \ boss \ consular through no fault of yourself why would you not snoop around. When I found out and printed everything out I confronted my wife. We agree to go to marriage consuling. We learned to talk and listen. We are happy and working our stuff out. If I had not snooped she would be gone without telling me why. I did not know she was upset and for 9 months he had been filling her head negative stuff about me. I would of killed myself. She has busted out crying apologize for giving me ptsd. But she thinks the preacher walks on water. I ask her why did he not try to save our marriage? They are still working together. He is still telling her he fears for her safety. I have stopped snooping and I let my wife talk openly about how smart the preacher is. I have decide I have to work on us and let her work through her feelings for the preacher. I have woke up at 4:30 am and she is watching his videos. She has opened up and showed me a text where they chatted at 3 am. I pretend I am OK with this. I am convinced she will not cheat or leave me. She is super religious and knows the bible better than most preachers. She has ask him not to send any more vidios about narcissism. She has told him I am ADHD. Which we just found out. My nerves are almost out of control. Trigger words like divorce will make me cry. Driving by the church or dropping items off to my wife makes me panic. My wife and I have agreed to let the past stay in the past. I am trying but my ADHD is giving me a fit. I want to start checking up on her
but I can't. I go for long walks to calm down. If I don't mess up we will be OK. Thanks for these replies.
This sounds awful and I wonder as another poster suggested if the preacher is the one with narcissim. Not that knowing so would help anything I guess. :( I hope she starts to prioritize what your counseller is saying to you as a couple over what the preacher has said. It sounds as if she may be trying to filter out his influence over your marriage at least, which is good news. Wishing you both so much happiness and I apologize for any misinterpretation of your story. It sounds like you're doing the best you can and it also sounds like your wife can see that.
Hi Papjack, glad you posted here and you are amoungst friends.
I am conscious of telling you what to do or anything like that, but from reading your description about your wife above and her relationship/support system in the preacher, I can put myself in her shoes a bit as the non-ADHD. Melissa has some GREAT articles on this site around the similarities of narcissism and ADHD - they really do overlap. And like your wife, I too have struggled for the last few years trying to sort out if my husband (recently DX ADHD at mid/late 40s) was a narcisst or it was ADHD at play. It's really difficult because some of the things that ADHDers do - while intention is always good - HURT SO MUCH THAT IT CAUSES SO MUCH PAIN. It didn't matter that my husband was 'trying' or that his intent was good but it came across wrong... it hurt. And it hurt so much that it has damaged our marriage, and the worst part is that he kept doing these things. And I have to keep telling myself (and others if I share) that he didn't mean it and basically make excuses for his behaviour.
....so with that being said, while I've been processing the impact of his ADHD on our marriage, I have a beloved family member who I confide in and she has recently divorced from her husband who is a full blown, abusive narcissist. I tell you this because although she means well, she would send me information on dealing with a narcissist after I would share some private details about my struggle. And believe me, it's so hard not to point the finger at my husband and call him a narcissist because there is SO MUCH OVERLAP that its scary and confusing.
I typed all the above to tell you this: Melissa does have some great blog postings with comments that are very much relevant to your situation, they have really helped me to differentiate between if my husband is ACTUALLY a narcissist or if he is displaying narcissistic behaviour - which to be honest, we ALL do have some here and there... most likely, your ADHD and RSD and emotional disregulation are coming out and displaying and its very in line with narcissistic behavour. So you most likely are NOT a narcissist (which is really difficult to diagnose btw, listen to anything Dr Ramani and you will find that out in the first few minutes) but you have to be really truthful with yourself and understand and learn and try to course correct where some of your actions/inactions could have been impacting your wife and then she could have concluded this is what you could be to her.
Also, I'd really recommend sharing the narcissist vs ADHD symptions articles with her and while you can\'t control her, try to give OTHER resources to learn from and hopefully she will stop listening to the pastor. He/she doesn't sound even remotely qualified to be giving her marriage advice - especially with your ADHD and how she's reacting to it and then how YOU are reacting to it. And make sure your marriage couselor knows about ADHD and whatnot because if they don't, you could do irreversible damage to your marriage and there will be no turning back.
I'm Sorry you're going through this Papajack
Submitted by J on
There's lots to unpack in your situation, but I can say a few things that have helped me when anxiety starts taking over my thoughts. I go through a kind of mental check list to try and get my head in the right place and bring me back to center. I find it difficult to get the sleep I need, make good decisions and do what I need to do when I'm in a state. This only becomes a vicious cycle unless I can gain control of myself.
My checklist may includes thoughts like these:
- I only have control of myself, I cannot control other people.
- What are the sources of my anxiety, emotions, etc ...what are the triggers? ( if I don't know the answer, I stop amd reflect on what these might be ) In my case ...I know anxiety is just part of me having ADHD. It's something I have to focus on in doing things to reduce it. Excersise and lots of sleep help me for example.
-I know when I'm in this state of mind, I may say or do things I might regret later. Stop, wait, focus on relaxing and bringing myself down.
- Am I being my best self? Am I following and doing what I know is right? If not, what can I do differently?
This list could go on but I think you get the point. Back to #1 on the list. You only have control of yourself not other people.
FYI. From my own experience, Narcissistic type people tend to thrive on controlling and manipulating others. Maybe the preacher is the one who's the Narcissists here? Just a thought?
Hope this helps. Good luck.
J
Thank you for your kind reply
Submitted by New to this (not verified) on
Thank you for your kind reply. Someone else has said the same thing about the preacher. My wife said she would retire in March so we can go camping more. But yesterday she told me she had changed her mind. I will be getting therapy next month. I have to let this run its course.
I think it's really
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I think it's really unfortunate that someone is diagnosing you and your marriage without knowing you and possibly without having the credentials to accurately do so. This person obviously holds a lot of influence and you fear that any attempt to unseat this person from your wife's life will mean the end.
Having said that, you might consider reflecting on a few parts of your story that you can control. Your wife "withholding" sex, may not be that at all. She doesn't ever owe you sex and if she was considering leaving, it makes sense that she wouldn't feel right or comfortable having sex with you. I'm saying perhaps her choice is about doing the right thing for HER, not about withholding anything to hurt you. And if she's avoiding intimacy, there's likely a deeper issue she's looking to address in the relationship so arguing about sex is probably not the way to solve it. I would also suggest that printing off her private messages, videos and texts with people is a significant invasion of privacy. Especially in the case of her conversations with a church counsellor, where confidentiality is the expectation. Perhaps this is this kind of behaviour she is fleeing. Honestly, if I'd found out my (now ex) husband had put a recorder in my bag or gone through all my messages, I would have left right away. That's a huge breach of trust at best and stalking/controlling behaviour at worst. She has confided in a trusted figure about her marriage and that hs her prerogative. You can question and be upset about the advice she's getting, but keep in mind your wife was unhappy with or without this person in her life. She didn't get this advice after describing a blissful marriage.
In short, I'd suggest you focus on YOUR behaviour rather than your wife's or preacher's. Optimize treatment for your ADHD and keep working on yourself relentlessly to become a better partner - regardless of what your wife does or doesn't do. If she sees you're genuinely trying through actions over a sustained period of time (many months/years), that is probably your best chance at a happy future with her. Perhaps read about narcissists and reflect on the descriptions there to see what your wife and counsellor could be seeing in these descriptions in your behaviour. At 52 years of marriage, it took a long time for your relationship/wife to get to this point so give it time to improve. Please know I mean all of these words in kindness and hope that your and your wife can find genuine continued happiness together.
Thank you for your reply. My
Submitted by New to this (not verified) on
Thank you for your reply. My wife and I were happy until the preacher started counseling her. We traveled in our camper a lot. I have never looked at her stuff in 55 years. The narcissist information she was given information a narcissist uses sex to control the spouse. So, withhold sex to take his power away. I have never met this preacher. Once a spouse gets attached to someone and starts talking negatively about their spouse, it starts a slippery slope. My wife has mentioned stuff that never happened. She has used the filter of me being a narcissist. For example, last year, for her birthday, I delivered a large vase of roses. I usually spent $60 but I spent $175. She loved it! This year, she says a narcissist will buy something like this to control the spouse. But the blessing has been we learned how to talk and listen. We are in a good place but he is still trying to get her to leave me.
I want to add I have stopped
Submitted by New to this (not verified) on
I want to add I have stopped looking at her stuff, and we are working on it. We have been together for 55 years. Since age 14. Married 52 years. Thank you for your reply.
If your husband is being told
Submitted by New to this (not verified) on
If your husband is being told to leave you by a coworker \ boss \ consular through no fault of yourself why would you not snoop around. When I found out and printed everything out I confronted my wife. We agree to go to marriage consuling. We learned to talk and listen. We are happy and working our stuff out. If I had not snooped she would be gone without telling me why. I did not know she was upset and for 9 months he had been filling her head negative stuff about me. I would of killed myself. She has busted out crying apologize for giving me ptsd. But she thinks the preacher walks on water. I ask her why did he not try to save our marriage? They are still working together. He is still telling her he fears for her safety. I have stopped snooping and I let my wife talk openly about how smart the preacher is. I have decide I have to work on us and let her work through her feelings for the preacher. I have woke up at 4:30 am and she is watching his videos. She has opened up and showed me a text where they chatted at 3 am. I pretend I am OK with this. I am convinced she will not cheat or leave me. She is super religious and knows the bible better than most preachers. She has ask him not to send any more vidios about narcissism. She has told him I am ADHD. Which we just found out. My nerves are almost out of control. Trigger words like divorce will make me cry. Driving by the church or dropping items off to my wife makes me panic. My wife and I have agreed to let the past stay in the past. I am trying but my ADHD is giving me a fit. I want to start checking up on her
but I can't. I go for long walks to calm down. If I don't mess up we will be OK. Thanks for these replies.
Wishing you the best
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
This sounds awful and I wonder as another poster suggested if the preacher is the one with narcissim. Not that knowing so would help anything I guess. :( I hope she starts to prioritize what your counseller is saying to you as a couple over what the preacher has said. It sounds as if she may be trying to filter out his influence over your marriage at least, which is good news. Wishing you both so much happiness and I apologize for any misinterpretation of your story. It sounds like you're doing the best you can and it also sounds like your wife can see that.
Sorry for your situation too
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
Hi Papjack, glad you posted here and you are amoungst friends.
I am conscious of telling you what to do or anything like that, but from reading your description about your wife above and her relationship/support system in the preacher, I can put myself in her shoes a bit as the non-ADHD. Melissa has some GREAT articles on this site around the similarities of narcissism and ADHD - they really do overlap. And like your wife, I too have struggled for the last few years trying to sort out if my husband (recently DX ADHD at mid/late 40s) was a narcisst or it was ADHD at play. It's really difficult because some of the things that ADHDers do - while intention is always good - HURT SO MUCH THAT IT CAUSES SO MUCH PAIN. It didn't matter that my husband was 'trying' or that his intent was good but it came across wrong... it hurt. And it hurt so much that it has damaged our marriage, and the worst part is that he kept doing these things. And I have to keep telling myself (and others if I share) that he didn't mean it and basically make excuses for his behaviour.
....so with that being said, while I've been processing the impact of his ADHD on our marriage, I have a beloved family member who I confide in and she has recently divorced from her husband who is a full blown, abusive narcissist. I tell you this because although she means well, she would send me information on dealing with a narcissist after I would share some private details about my struggle. And believe me, it's so hard not to point the finger at my husband and call him a narcissist because there is SO MUCH OVERLAP that its scary and confusing.
I typed all the above to tell you this: Melissa does have some great blog postings with comments that are very much relevant to your situation, they have really helped me to differentiate between if my husband is ACTUALLY a narcissist or if he is displaying narcissistic behaviour - which to be honest, we ALL do have some here and there... most likely, your ADHD and RSD and emotional disregulation are coming out and displaying and its very in line with narcissistic behavour. So you most likely are NOT a narcissist (which is really difficult to diagnose btw, listen to anything Dr Ramani and you will find that out in the first few minutes) but you have to be really truthful with yourself and understand and learn and try to course correct where some of your actions/inactions could have been impacting your wife and then she could have concluded this is what you could be to her.
Also, I'd really recommend sharing the narcissist vs ADHD symptions articles with her and while you can\'t control her, try to give OTHER resources to learn from and hopefully she will stop listening to the pastor. He/she doesn't sound even remotely qualified to be giving her marriage advice - especially with your ADHD and how she's reacting to it and then how YOU are reacting to it. And make sure your marriage couselor knows about ADHD and whatnot because if they don't, you could do irreversible damage to your marriage and there will be no turning back.