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I went home mid afternoon and had my first run in with the angry insulting and belittling wife I thought miraculously went away since I started treatment. In the middle of a very busy day she called to say that she was feeling overwhelmed and needed my support at home. So I wriggled out of some nonessential work tasks and went home. I did say that there was still some office work that needed to be done and asked her to be tolerant of phone calls, emails and other sudden needs to do work.
The whole time she basically angrily yelled at me for what I was saying to our preschooler, for having no sense of time and for being an expletive that can't be reprinted here. She doesn't believe that ADHD exists, that I have it or that the medicine is working. So she attacked that too. "that medicine you are taking is not working".
Honestly I don't know if it is or not. It feels like it is. I am getting more work done in the last week than ever before. I think I've been better at home. But then again, if part of this ailment is not knowing how annoying and a pain you are, then I wouldn't know whether any of this is just one big hallucination. Anyway, I didn't argue back and really just didn't see the point of stirring the pot. I am going to go with the assumption that I am on the right track and that she is just having a bad day and choosing to take it out on me.
Comments
Why was she overwhelmed, dear Geese?
What were you saying to your pre-schooler? Why did that anger your overwhelmed wife?
What would you post if the focus were on what the other person communicated to you, what the other person needed, and why? This post is a not very specific account of what you did, what you wanted to get out of the situation, and your disappointment that the other person did not sufficiently validate you....
Great questions
Sharing this with your therapist might spark further insights
I'm sorry it was a rough day for your family and you.
There is a lot to unpack in that paragraph, so please let me encourage you to do so with your therapist--someone who is on your team and who is growing increasingly more familiar with your situation. Some times the part illuminates the whole--a single incident, examined honestly from multiple vantage points, can spark a discussion that inspires ways to break old patterns, find new strategies, gain clarity, and empathy for the other...
Courage, mon vieux...
Let's see
Keep this in mind....
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angry insulting and belittling wife I thought miraculously went away since I started treatment.
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Your wife is harboring anger that has built up over YEARS, so small improvements over the past week aren't likely going to sweep those angry feelings away.
Plus, your wife doesn't yet believe that ADHD exists. She likely believes that it's just laziness or self centeredness or that you were raised poorly. Well, some of that may be true, but it may also be a symptom of the ADHD.
I have a LOT of anger because of my H's ADHD, largely because even though he's made some improvements, he's nowhere near being a "fully respectable adult male."
Well I've got bad news for you
Take a look at my treatment guide
You mention that you know that exercise helps you manage your ADHD - you might consider downloading my free chapter on treatment of adult ADHD...I'm not a doctor, but it's been reviewed by the best. The behavioral side of things is where your wife will notice differences - what goes on in your head is not what she can see, of course...and it will be a while before she is willing to acknowledge your changes (this is common in ,amy non-ADHD partners - they don't want to respond too quickly, fearing that will lead to your not paying as much attention as you could to the changes you are trying to make.
You may also wish to consider whether or not you are doing as much as you think you are. Sometimes I see people confuse 'thinking about change' with 'doing things differently.' You will never be non-ADHD, and that is a GOOD thing - the world is a good place because there are different types of people in it. Your wife fell in love with you for a reason (many reasons, most likely) and that has been temporarily obscured by your actions and symptoms...but can come back. But it is a long road.
If you and your wife have not read The ADHD Effect on Marriage I might suggest it. In addition, you might consider taking my live couples seminar in the Fall. It would be particularly useful for her to get a different perspective.
No it wasn't obvious to me in the beginning....
First of all, I didn't know the symptoms of ADHD back then. I met my H over 30 years ago. Back then, I had only heard of ADD, and that was largely ascribed to children with the theory that they grow out of it around age 11 or 12. Wow, was that wrong. But, when I was growing up, the kids on Ritalin had parents who were saying, "the doctor says that they'll out grow this and they won't need meds after about age 12. "
I didn't even know that there was such a thing as adult ADHD back then.
In some ways, my H didn't fit the profile that some describe here. He had been a straight A student. He graduated from college Phi Beta Kappa. He excelled in grad school. He had a high paying career, which he kept for over 30 years.
When I met him, he had low stress going on. He loved his job (flex time, so no pressure to be there at 8 am), and he was "high" on excessive exercising and dating. At the time, I had no idea that all that exercising was masking or creating a "drug" so to speak, to keep him more even keeled.
Interesting
Geese Some Things to Try
We share some things in common. I did well in school too. I have found that any where I can replace that kind of routine and structure in my adult life is where this is very helpful. As I look back at my past history.....I can see the times where I did better than others is when I was working out and continuing to train regularly. I found myself in a position where I had to devote time to other things more and was making changes and I did watch how my mood levels ( depression etc ) really started to set in the most during these times. It sounds like you are still exercising and I would have to say that doing that for me worked better than taking Adderall alone. The meds do a great job on my ability to focus more consistently but not as well in dealing with lowered mood levels and my ability to cope and manage stress and depression or that feeling of hopelessness. Having said that....the meds are still a life saver but you also have to give them time ( or your body ) to adjust and get them dialed in once you start taking them. Remembering back......it took almost a year I think to finally get this balance right. Up until that time.....I still would swing up and down some along the way.....some things to keep in mind and pay attention too. I had my own business for nearly 10 years and though it was relatively successful in it's own right....the demands it made on me and the hours required were really a contributing factor to my first failed marriage and my ability to exercise and maintain the same kind of structure and routine that I have now. The main reason I sold my business was to have more time to devote myself to other things and to reduce my stress. This did help. I can relate this to the demands of raising kids as you mentioned in having this effect on me too. The biggest problem I ran into and still do if I don't watch myself is putting too much on my plate ( my eyes being bigger than my stomach figuratively speaking ) and being too ambitious instead of not enough. This has it's own downfalls.....the net effect of this for me still leaves me feeling overwhelmed and hopeless at times if I can't manage everything I have to do and manage my home life at the same time which always ends up with the same set of problems when I put myself into this position and not being able to keep up with all the demands I have to deal with from the fallout of not allowing enough time to do everything I have to do.
The more self discipline and structure I can add into my day to day routine during these times or any other have proven to be very effective. It's easy to get complacent in your own head saying....you tell yourself you can't or it's too hard at first when you think about giving up time to do things that you like which are important too....but I have found that sometimes these things are far less important than staying on top of things and spending less time there than the alternative which is what I already said. Some things to keep in mind...
Going to bed earlier and getting up earlier to create more time really early in the day has been one of the best methods I've found to help me do this. I've found that doing the same thing I did when I was young ( early morning work outs before school ) or using this time before everyone else is up is the most productive and valuable time of the day for me. I get more done in a shorter time period when I can be left alone without other demands coming at me at the same time and I'm fresh and at my best. Evening time or late in the day is just the opposite and I struggle there in comparison. But I had to give up some things in order to do this. More things to try and think about?
Also.....adding in to your thinking or planning that your day isn't done when you come home from work even when you're tired and spending at least a little time each evening to do things at home also helps saying.....your day isn't done when you get off work. These are the little moments that's it's easy to miss the opportunity to take advantage of the time you already have if you don't let yourself. Another thing that helps.
Simply put.....it's the accumulation of a lot of little things that are more effective than any one big thing you can do ( like budgeting and saving in finance ). This is where you can create the biggest impact over time but I agree with everyone else in saying that you do need to allow the time for these things to work. This is where your wife will notice after a while too but she also needs to see the changes happening and have time to adjust her own thinking which will come later but not so much right at first until you are more consistent.
J
Great points
There You Go.....Geese
Take this week and stand back from it and look at how that went. It's probably going to be similar next week too. the problem that you a I both face is that we set out with all good intentions to do everything all at once! It's not realistic and not sustainable. I know this one extremely well. What I have done in the past is set my sights too high as a means to motivate me.....nothing wrong with that...it works. But if your goal is unattainable you wil eventually fail and keep repeating this cycle...if that doesn't sound familiar to the things that Mellisa wrote in the article she mentioned to you...you should go back and read that again. We do this to ourselves but that's just the problem. This goal (if you will) was not set by you. It really is your wife's and everyone else's goal in your entire lifetime or experience and you're still working off that assumption.....that it's your goal but it's not. It can't come all at once.....that's just not possible. It happens gradually over time. The measure of how you rate yourself shouldn't be getting there as fast as possible with some unrealistic deadline or else.....is should be simply getting there in the first place ( focusing on the journey instead of the brass ring at the end ) The brass ring might serve you to motivate you and keep your eye on the ball...but not at a measure of success or failure. The reason I'm saying this is because in reality...the journey IS the goal. If you stop once you think you've made it....that's when you fail in reality. What you're trying to do is incorporate all these things into your daily life in a way that you can keep doing it consistently until the day you die....that's the goal.
My wife was the same way. All she could see was each thing she didn't like as if these things were not related or interconnected to one another. Her goal for me was to stop doing each one as soon as possible and never do them again. Her goal also had a time limit and the brass ring was the goal. Her measure of my success was if I completely stopped each one completely and until that day happened....she could not check it off the list. Each thing was viewed individually that way. Success or failure, black and white, all or nothing..... measuring each thing with a time clock running to see how fast each thing would take and how often I would fail. No one learns to do anything this way. This is the equivalent to taking a final exam every day of your life starting from the first day you begin to learn in the class room. In what school of thought or any learning institution does this exist? None that I know of because it's completely unrealistic and a poor way to learn. Even at the pain of death....no one will succeed using this approach and everyone will fail until the day you score 100% on the test.
The thing is.....even if this is true and that's what is happening with everyone else ( including your wife).......you can be smart enough not to do this to yourself. And even when your not doing this....it doesn't mean your wife will stop doing it or change her goal for you and the way she measures it. That's where you have to ignore her and everyone else if you know what your doing and the best way to get there as long as you've got your own head straight and on target and doing your best ie: trying different things to see what works and doesn't. Making educated guesses to see if they work and then fine tuning it until you get each thing dialed in ( all the things you want together as a whole not each one individually and checking them off from some imaginary list? These things are just tools used as carrots for motivation but they are not the goal. Don't use them as a means to measure your own success even if someone else does. They can all go piss up a rope!!.. Look at it this way......that is other peoples job .....to try and screw you up. Your job is not to try and stop them from doing it...your job is not to let that keep you from staying on course when they do.
With my wife....she couldn't have made this process any harder for me doing what she did. It was the equivalent to learning to run an obstacle course with a timer on you while someone is sitting on the sidelines shooting live ammunition at you at the same time.
But here's the deal.....I did it anyway. No matter what new thing got thrown in to try a sabotage my efforts by my wife or anyone else. That's the goal and the journey you face. If you can learn to do this and not let your wife or circumstances get the better of you and throw you off course.....you've won. That's the success because that's the battle we are fighting...not with everyone else, but in your ability to do what I just said. Once you learn how to do this....you can do anything.
Lose the battle and win the war...and live to fight another day!
But also keep this in mind.....these things I shared with you and ways to stay on target and to keep motivated are not things you want to share with the people on the sides lines shooting live ammunition at you.....know what I mean? Best to keep your head down, mouth shut and eyes open:)
PS....once your wife starts to notice the improvements, she should lighten up like mine did but, that's not to say you are still not on secret double probation! That is just the sign that you are succeeding but your far from done. This is the time to do what your doing now so to speak.....power on and give it an extra effort! She watching and accessing if she feels safe enough with you that you are not going to back slide. The worst thing you can do right then is to do that if you understand what I'm saying? Once she begins to really believe in you like my wife did......she should be more open and willing to talk about it with you and really listen to you without the anger. This is the point when we began to really discuss things including the things I am saying to you right now. I could let her read this at this point and it wouldn't upset her ( too much...the piss up a rope part lol ) But she would guardedly think that was funny too.....she knows me:)
J
Thanks J
No Problem Bro
Stay after it!
J
I have to agree
a whole lot with OverwhelmedWife that is definitely helpful because it is soooo true. However, have you had this conversation with your wife (when she is not angry of course) sometimes we get so focused on what you're not doing/say/following through with that we don't see the good you ARE doing. It glares at us so much it usually ends up outweighing what has been/still may be lacking. On top of that we may undermine the progress you've been making without meaning to because we are still trying to fight our way through all the other emotions that don't just disappear instantaneously. My therapist just reminded me yesterday the importance of communication on this topic, it's got to be worked through or else things like the above are going to (continue to) happen.
First I do think you are doing a wonderful job and I have to say you are amazingly much more positive now even having the love of your life act out at you in this way. Going from having depressed/suicidal thoughts to having such a positive outlook despite this setback is hugely impressive!
I know this is a vent post from you but I want to thank you for sharing how you feel you are doing with treatment because it gives me hope for my marriage in that sense <
I have found it really makes me feel like my husband truly does care about me when regardless of WHATEVER has happened that day he makes the time to sit down with me and we just talk, not like at the dinner table "how was your day, what did you learn in school, what are the weekend plans etc". We talk about US, our relationship, how we are feeling, whether good or bad. We acknowledge each others hurts and brainstorm new/better ways to resolve it and apologize to each other. Offer ways to make it up to the one who has been hurt in a way they can appreciate. Acknowledge the progress, the good things we are doing for each other and build each other up not tear each other down. It's not always easy but we agree to not raise voices and if one of us starts getting to excited we take a time out to cool down. Things don't carry on off balance this way and we know where we stand, we sleep better at night and get along so much better doing this every couple of days or even every day if things have gotten rocky. Despite his ADHD he still makes me his priority in this way and reassures me he is in this 100%.
Also. another married couple I know, the ADD spouse asks his wife if she is happy, she typically says yes. Then he asks her how he can make her happier? What can he do for her to make her even more happy? What would it take for her to be happier than she is in this moment? I don't think he does this every single day because I imagine it would become exhausting for both parties. I just think it is the sweetest darn way of showing your spouse you care whether you have add/adhd or not.
*If you always do what you've always done you always get what you've always gotten*
Thanks for the feel good post
Geese, you are at the beginning
Sounds as if you are making good progress...but it will take your wife quite a while to adjust, so please try to be patient with her. She will also need to get rid of some of the filters she has about you. And, also, it will take you longer than a week or two to make the kind of long-term gains in managing your ADHD that will communicate that 'now things are really different - and they are going to stay that way." That last part it critical for the non-ADHD partner to heal. Life with a person who has had untreated ADHD has typically been an up and down roller coaster - non-ADHD partners learn to protect themselves from disappointment by being very jaundiced about change...and also by mentionning any small mistake, rather than being patient.
Why is this?
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Sometimes I see people confuse 'thinking about change' with 'doing things differently.'
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Yes! Why is this??? I've seen that, "This weekend I'm going to clean out the car." Then, it's like he's so satisfied with himself for making that declaration that when the weekend comes, the idea of cleaning out the car never gets considered. But, he's still likely "satisfied" for having made the earlier statement.
Also, I've noticed that if they do something once or twice, they think they always do it. For instance, if H cleans out the garage twice the whole time we've been married (30 years), then he thinks that he does that chore "all the time".
I am starting to think the more severe ADHD rarely exists without anxiety and/or depression coexisting.
Thanks for the comments
Geese It's Still Not as Bad as You Think
I wanted to keep the ball rolling here and add some thoughts for you to look forward too. Beyond what I mentioned about staying positive which you can still apply to everything else.....you haven't even come close to the good parts yet. But if you can make it through some more times like the ones you already know ( and some more times of self doubt too) the times you feel this way will become fewer and further between as time goes on. There will come a time I'm sure....when you will be able to look back with a sense of relief that you will not have to feel the way you do ever again. I can promise you that if you keep you head up and stay on the course you're on. Even if nothing else changes in your life or even in the people that you are with ie; under the same set of circumstance you are in right now for one example, but not suggesting that these will be the same either) the net effect that it is having on you now and how you feel about yourself will not be the same in the future you can count on that.
I just read what Melissa suggested you read myself and I wanted to share something that really struck me. To make sure I'm putting this into context correctly for you....I want to say that at this point in my life.....one of the statements she wrote quite possibly is the greatest, most accurate (and funniest ) descriptions I've read so far in describing something that you are most likely very aware of. I'm sure her intention was not to be humorous in any way....but it is a testament of how I see this now compared to the past. I'm putting this into my permanent file upstairs (my head) as a reminder and a way to make me smile. I'm not suggesting that this will necessarily have the same effect on you, but I also understand why. What you can look forward to is the day when you will laugh at some of these things in same way I do and when that day comes I know that you will understand what I am saying........
Once you complete the cycle a few hundred thousand times or more, you become defensive ( edit: Defensive? Are you kidding me? After a few hundred thousand times or more? How about an oppositional defiant flaming A-hole instead? LOL!! I'm sorry, I couldn't resist ) every time someone says "What's wrong with you?"
"I just told you that, don't you remember?"( edit:or.. I just told you to do that or not to do that) or "You need to try harder" or "You only care about yourself" or "You're just making excuses".
Sadly, those are only some of the nice things people say.(edit: that's an understatement :)
Soon, people begin to dismiss you, or call you names and even laugh at you. They try to force you to do what they themselves can do.( edit: or in the way they do it...."just like this! " I hate the word "just"!!)
They are struggling to manage their lives and yours and they learn that you will step up your efforts if you feel bad enough. Seriously now, I think it's really important to keep this in mind. If you are anything like me, this is where things can go horribly wrong and in the wrong direction for you meaning.....after you do this enough and realize that this is what's happening when other people do this.....not only can you feel hurt and betrayed,but this is where the real anger begins to set in and where all the "fuck it" attitude can really start to be a problem including a lot of passive aggressive behavior as well. It's good to keep an eye on this because these things will only make matters worse for you and you will be shooting yourself in the foot every time that happens. Don't do that! Understand your own feelings in a way that you can use this to your advantage instead. Right here are the moments when you can change what you do that will change the face of everything you do in positive directions and yet..... I know how difficult this can be at the same time you are feeling self righteous for all good reasons not to do this in the moment.
This is where you need to remind yourself that other people are not doing it with that intention but more from not understanding what they are doing and or why this can be so damaging for us. This is the place that you can show your wife that you've changed when you make it an opportunity instead of what you already know. Use this to prove that you can change by simply changing how you see this and how you react. You can do this I guarantee it! Once you do, it will not feel the same anymore in a more positive direction.
And....... you will be able to laugh at these things with a genuine smile on your face like I do now and not be defensive.... because you will realize that you don't have to feel bad anymore when people do these things ever again :)
J
Understand?
I don't think that we always need to understand 'why?' In fact, I find it isn't uncommon that if you ask a partner "why?" you'll get a very honest "I don't know." Sometimes one just has to accept that this is what happens, stop worrying about 'why' and start thinking about the most positive way to address the issue in the relationship. In this case, it probably means simply focusing on what needs to get done, rather than on who has done what in the past.
Thanks For Confirming and Reminding Me....
that thinking too much about the answers or the need to know "why".....can be a problem in itself after a certain point....the point of diminishing returns! I hear you. This is one I have for sure. Nothing wrong with curiosity as long as curiosity in itself doesn't become a problem.....like a cat? lol
PS.....the point of needing to know "why" or need to "understand".....is the same point where the rationalizing begins to answer "I don't know" for someone else. I need lots of reminders here too. Thanks again for this one.
J