ADHD or just lazy????? I need to vent!

Forum:

I am constantly resentful at my husband because he seems just downright lazy! This evening I went to the grocery store since we have a busy weekend ahead of us and I wanted to get a jump start .... I arrive back home with a trunk full of groceries, it's dark, there is construction of the curbs in front of our home so there is some ditches and gravel to navigate. I open the door, no one is around - kids are in bed, husband is in the basement - in his "man cave" - watching TV. I start bringing in the groceries, expecting that any minute he will walk up the stairs and start helping me .. but no..... By the time I bring in the last bag I am fuming.

I drive the car round back and park it in the garage. I go downstairs - sure enough there he is lying on the couch, in a daze, watching TV. I question him as to why he didn't come up to help me ... he stutters .. uhhh.. I didn't ... but then trails off - I am pretty sure he was going to say that he didn't hear me and then decided that was a very lame excuse. Why didn't you call me he says? Really? I have to ask you for help every single time? You can't take it upon yourself to think -- gee.. my wife is home, after being at work all day she goes to the grocery store, it's dark .. maybe I should help ..... does it cross his mind and he dismisses it because he's just too damned lazy to get off that couch? Or does he not think about helping .. I can't even begin to understand how a human being can be so self centered.

Thanks for listening.....

Comments

Lazy.......ADHD

I learned this a long time ago...even before ADHD was a part of my life. I'm the non-adder. YOU HAVE TO ASK FOR HELP!!!!! Stop hurting yourself. Yes, I WISH they could "SEE IT" like we do. They don't. If you have a cell phone...call him when you are comming in the driveway..."Honey, will you help me carry in the groceries" .....Thank You. OR Go in and ask him to help you. Instead of setting yourself up to be pissed off...Ask for help.

A long time ago, I read an article in Dear Abby....It was from a girl who's husband forgot her birthday. She was so hurt, angry, mad.....you name it. The advice that came from another reader said something like this....Girlfriend, you need to start 2 weeks before your birthday. You tell anyone and everyone...(including your husband) that your birthday is next Friday and you don't want them to forget. Tell them what you want and/or where you want to go. Keep reminding them. If they forget your birthday......NOW, you can be pissed. I've done it for the past 24 yrs...I love my birthday. (but now I have to put a $ amount limit....Mr. ADHD loves to buy big ticket things and then let me figure out how to pay for them. (We only figured out 1 1/2 yrs ago about his ADHD)

I have found myself "testing" my husband. Only to be let down. I had to stop because like you then I was pissed and my attitude was "annoyed" or I had the WTF cloud over my head. I wouldn't say anything and shut the door a little to hard. He would hear the door and think "Now what did I do wrong." I think they know they are wrong but only when it's to late. Then they turn it to your fault.

Learning about ADHD answers soooo many questions. Do yourself a favor......Think ahead...Ask for whatever you need or want him to do. It has made my life easier and I'm not hurt and angry all the time.

I agree! You have to get

I agree! You have to get over asking, though it IS frustrating!! I have found that if I expect my husband to "just remember" or "see" that I/we need something done, I am likely to experience anger and upsetness because of disappointment. I totally understand wanting a partner that will come to your aid when neccessary but the truth is, that is not likely to happen with someone who has ADHD/ADD. I also have to adjust how I would like things done because he does them differently than me. I would rather ask and have him do things his way and get them done than play the expectation game with him, which I already know the outcome anyway. Now we are working out the when I request something of him, he being able to put some priority into it and accomplish it. We have our bad weeks but it's the little steps that you have to concentrate on, otherwise it can be overwhelming- for both people!

NonADD brain: I think I hear

NonADD brain: I think I hear something. Yes I think that's my wife upstairs. She was going to pick up a few things after work. I should go upstairs and help her, its dark outside.

ADD brain: ... this TV ad sucks ... is that a noise? ... naw, must be hearing things, I always hear things, I need to get my hearing checked. This TV ad sucks too. I should also get my eyes checked. Oh and when was the last time I went to the dentist? The wife would know. hey, maybe that sound upstairs is the wife? Hmmmmm ... yup sounds like her. What is she doing up there? She's home later than usual, I wonder why (having forgotten about shopping completely) ... well, if she doesn't come down to say hai by the next commericial break I'll go up and say hi. I wonder if it dark out yet? Man, how long have I been on this couch? Long enough for it to get dark? Didn't I do this yesterday too? I keep promising myself I'll not spend so long on the couch everyday and then I do ... Okay I should get up now ... Oh I hate this commerical too ... wait, wasn't I going to get up during the commerical break and say hi to the wife? What is she doing up there anyways? Get up you lazy ass! Where's the remote, I should turn the TV off. Uh oh, is that doors slamming? Is she mad? I wonder why? Maybe I'll stay here and not get in her way. Sure, if she needs me she knows where to find me. Maybe she had a bad day at work? I don't think I did anything wrong today, did I? Maybe we can cuddle on the couch? This TV ad is stupid too, who buys this stuff anyways? Why would I need to whiten my teeth? Oh, here she comes. Hi hun! Huh? Groceries? Dark? What? Uhhhh ... ummm. Damn I was supposed to do somehting wasn't I? I didn't ... nevermind ... I suck again. Wow she's mad. Maybe I'll hide down here a little longer ... this TV ad sucks.

OMG! This is exactly it.

ADD Response (or Lack Thereof)

Non-ADD Response to hearing "Honey, would you please help me bring in the groceries?": . . . "Sure honey." Goes upstairs to help.

ADD Response to hearing "Honey, would you please help me bring in the groceries?": . . . Silence, or "OK" and then silence, as her brain is processing . . . Oh, my wife needs help with the groceries. I'll go as soon as I'm done with this game on my iPhone (that she is playing while watching TV). . . This show is kind of boring. Maybe I should change the channel. . . Oh, damn - that was a stupid move. I should have played a different card. I hate it when I move the wrong card. I can do better than that. . . Oh, sounds like she's come in. I guess she was OK after all. . . Then hears "Honey?" Responds "I'm COMING!" . . . . Maybe I should go help. . . Oh look - a commercial for the new iPad! That looks so cool! I really want one of those. . . I should check what the latest Podcasts are saying about them. . . I don't understand why people are criticizing the iPad. It isn't meant to be a fully eiqupped computer! It's meant to be a hand held device with a bigger screen than an iPhone. It's so cool. . . People are so stupid sometimes. . . I can't wait to get one, though. I wonder when the price will come down. . . And the new iPhone looks really cool! . . . Damn . . lost that game. Maybe I'll do better on the next one. . . Oh, I hear the TV upstairs. She must be done putting away the groceries. I guess she didn't need my help after all. I'll go upstairs after this game. . . . Sometime later, when wife says in an aggrivated tone "I thought you were going to come upstairs to help me with the groceries," answers "What? I SAID I was going to help. I was PLANNING to come help. You were just too fast. Why didn't you wait for me? You always want everything in YOUR time!"

NonADD Brain while waiting for response: Hmm . . no answer. . . I wonder if she heard me? . . .She must have heard me, I spoke loudly. . . . But maybe not. . . Or maybe she heard me, but is having difficulty stopping what she is doing so she can respond . . . damn, I really need help here . . . how long should I wait before saying something . . . I feel like I am always waiting for her . . . . I don't want to make her feel guilty, but I really need help. . . . I wish I knew how to say something without her feeling insulted . . . Ok, I think I waited long enough . . . "Honey?" Hears response "I'm COMING!" . . . Crap, she sounds annoyed that I said something . . . but I really need help . . . now what do I do ? . . . .I know she's not going to come up for awhile . . . this is really frustrating . . . I'm tired and I just want to get these groceries put away . . . I guess I'm just going to have to do it myself . . . again . . .why do I even bother asking . . . it just frustrates me that she doesn't respond . . . she KNOWs this frustrates me . . . I have told her so many times now . . . this is SO tiresome . . . Oh, well, I guess I just have to live with it . . . .I'm done now . . . . so much for getting help when I ask for it . . . I guess I'll watch some TV . . . I wonder if she'll ever come up . . . does she even realize I'm pissed? . . . . Sometime later when she does come up, says in an aggrivated tone: "I thought you were going to come upstairs to help me with the groceries" . . . to which she hears "What? I SAID I was going to help. I was PLANNING to come. You are just too fast. Whay didn't you wait? You always want everything in YOUR time!" NonADD brain continued: . . . What? SHE doesn't do something and it's my fault? . . . . And she yells at me for it . . . .and insults me? . . . That's so not fair!

I am not sure if I have read

I am not sure if I have read it anywhere but is you wife getting any treament for her ADD Hoping? If this is her manner then she must but unmedicated and not going to any sort of coaching and therapy.

Reply

Hi Miss B, She is medicated and sees a psychiatrist maybe once a month. We have recently begun couples coaching. I am hoping that helps. But in the meantime, I am feeling very beat up. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. It feels like whatever I do, it is the wrong thing. (I know - sort of a poetic justice in that, isn't there?) Lately it seems as if the only way to get along is to live parallel lives, reducing our interactions. Weekends are very stressful for me. It feels like we have had fights every weekend for I don't know how long. We might begin OK in a discussion, but it seems as soon as my wife hears that she disappointed me in some way, she feels so bad that the only thing she can do to feel better is to put ME down. It has become so exhausting for me. Part of the problem is that she has a hard time speaking up when I do something that bothers her, and so it usually doesn't come out until we are in the midst of a fight, and then, she doesn't bring up a particular incident, but rather will say some thing like "You ALWAYS do such and such" or "You are SO - insert description here." Yesterday when she said something about how I *always* have to have everything my way and that I am *always* jumping in and taking over when I don't like the way she is doing something, I asked her to give me an example to help me understand the kinds of things she was talking about. I though I'd had been doing these kinds of things much less often (it is something I have been working on) and her comment made me wonder if maybe I was doing them and just not realizing it. She only thought of one (other than the incident we were taking about, which had occurred yesterday morning), and it was over a month ago. It's so frustrating! I definitely did things in the past that I now see were hurtful and have stopped doing lots of them, or at least do them much less often. And sometimes I "slip" - like I did yesterday morning. I think she still hurts from all the times I did them in the past thinks I still do them ALL. I could list 10 things I used to do that I no longer do because I have heard from her or read in these posts that they are hurtful, and yet she continues to hold them against me. I mentioned that to her yesterday and I hope she heard it, because I can't change the past. I'm sorry, I realize I am starting to vent and that was not my intent. Again, it's been a hard weekend. Sigh . . . .

hug You may have to lay off

*hug* You may have to lay off the big relationships talks for a while. Leave them for the couples coaching or just try to wait until she has had more time with the therapy and getting the meds just right. It sounds as though you have gotten into a "dance routine" some times you just have to stop "dancing" altogether for a while before you can re-learn how to "dance". Disengage. I must it is ironic that you write she is still holding things done in the recent past against you. Most of the time it is the ADDer who is trying to change and who wants those changes acknowledged but the hurt nonADD spouse refuses to because of so many past hurts. And also because the change is still very recent, it takes TIME, so you stopped doing something a month ago ... just a month, only 4 weeks, that's nothing in a marriage! I wonder if both of you are doing this same thing? Try to dismiss the "always" type statements as poor communication skills. "You ALWAYS do such and such" or "You are SO - insert description here." translate to "I feel as though you do such and such nearly all the time" or "It seems as though your are so insert description here most of the time" she is not making accusations she is offering her perspective. Also having ADD and memory issues will keep her from being able to list examples right off the top of her head. I wonder if you are trying to rush things. You want to heal the marriage so badly you are trying to do it all at once or much faster than it can be. Trying to be forgiven and forgotten for past behaviours, trying to help her change faster than she can, trying new tings and getting frustrated if they don't work the first few times? If it has taken you gals years to get here, you cannot fix it in weeks or months.

I Agree

Hi Miss B, Thanks for your empathetic response. I really appreciate hearing from someone with ADHD that I might be doing some things right. :-) I agree that we need to lay off the relationship conversations. But what is happening is that one of us will become upset about something, and then in order to get past it, we have to talk about it. And it is during THOSE talks that the "You always" and "You are SO" statements come up. I will try and heed your advice re: trying to hear those statements differently. I know that will be VERY difficult for me because the statements usually feel like character assaults, and I am very sensitive when it comes to those. I have a very high tolerance for statements of the sort "When you did this it hurt me" or whatever - and I can hear a large number of those, take ownership for what I did, whether intentional or not, feel empathy for my wife, apologize, and move on. But when it feels like my character is attacked, I have a very hard time responding in a reasonable way. In fact, it is in response to those kinds of statements that I typically "lose it." I cry, yell, and want to flee the situation, specifically because I DON'T know how to respond to those kinds of statements. It also takes me awhile to simmer down after I get so upset, in response to those kinds of statements. So I know it would definitely be to my benefit if I can heed your advice and not respond. In fact, that is what I tried yesterday when I said (after I calmed down a little) - "can you give me some examples of when I do such and such?"

It takes a long time and change of mind

I'm guessing what is going on here is that your wife feels as if you are trying to run her life. If this has been going on for a while it takes a long time to get out of that feeling, even if you are doing less of it now. She sees every comment and critique and idea as just one more expression of how you think she is inadequate, which makes her defensive and mad. I would suggest that you need the help of a third party - someone else who can say "things are changing - here is the evidence of it, and here's what you should do next to KEEP it changing." Also, you need to let HER vent a bit and tell you what she's feeling - not in the height of an argument, but at some other time. ASK her how you can do better and listen to her response. It's likely to have something to do with respect. At the same time, she needs to understand your own needs (and these will also likely have something to do with respect). You would love to find ways to talk without feeling like she's going to jump down your throat. As for the "always" comments - once things are bad enough, people do tend to put a "filter" on that means they start to see the bad things more easily than the good things. You may be suffering the effects from that. That said, you may well be doing things that you don't realize you are doing - in part because you aren't fully familiar with how she is interpreting them. So, for example, you might offer help with something that she's had trouble starting, and instead of her seeing that as an expression of love she might read it as a criticism or impatience. Until you fully understand how she is interpreting your actions, it's really hard for you to keep from offending her. When things are hard, as they are now, she'll be quick to be offended, since the two of you don't have any "good feelings" stored in your emtional "banks" to offset bad experiences or interpretations (if that makes sense).

Thank You

Thank you for putting in writing how my husband (a recently diagnosed ADDer) has told me his brain is working! He has told me hundreds of times that he has all of these random thoughts going on in his head constantly. Yet, he can't seem to get up off the couch and do anything. Or he will start several things at once and never get anything done.

It is helpful to me as a very frustrated non-ADD wife (with a type A personality) to read what he has been trying to tell me. Thank you!!

no numbers to connect the dots

Alex and MIss B have given you great responses already. Let me add another consideration.

People with ADHD have memory issues. Unless they have been given specific training, they typically have trouble storing, organizing and retrieving ordinary information (i.e. information that doesn't seem fascinating or critical). And unless they are hyperfocused or in a brainstorming mode, it's very very difficult for them to connect any existing information together.

Now, take the situation in the post. Your spouse would have had to *remember* without any reminder that:

You went to the store
The curb repairs are being done
It's a holiday weekend

Let's assume that he did manage to notice it was dark and that you were home (which may very well have happened it a sort of random-though-passing-through manner that MIss B describes so well, that's classic ADHD brain functioning)

Now, his brain would need to *organize* this information in a *meaningful way* and draw some conclusions:

You went to the store + it's a holiday weekend ==> maybe you have a lot of groceries
There's curb work + it's dark ==> it may be more difficult to walk outside than usual
Maybe you have a lot of groceries+ it may be more difficult to walk outside than usual ==> you are having a tough time bringing in the groceries

Suppose he had somehow been able to remember the basic information but wasn't able to organize it meaningfully, which can be so difficult for ADHDers to do, e.g.

You went to the store + there's curb work ==> ???????
It's a holiday weekend + it's dark ==> ?? there may be more people outside than usual??
There may be more people outside than usual?? + ??? ==> ??? you are bringing in the groceries and chatting with the neighbors???

OR even

You went to the store + it's dark ==> You like to shop at night
It's a holiday weekend + there's curb work ==> the curb work won't be finished for a while
You like to shop at night + the curb work won't be finished for a while ==> ??? maybe we should put a temporary light of some kind out by the curb work???

Neither of these would have been reasons to get right up off the couch! And consider that if he wasn't able to remember *all* the basic items, the conclusions would probably be even more skewed from what you or I would normally expect.

It's a lot like the connect-the-dots pictures we've all played with as kids -- except in the coloring books, the dots have numbers. What kind of picture would we end up with if the numbers weren't there? Sometimes we can figure the picture out because there are many dots, or they are strategically spaced, but what if that's not the case?

So, add to the basic memory storage/retrieval and meaningful information organization problems the fact that many ADHDers have learned (with good reason!) to distrust their conclusions, because of their life history with bad memory retrieval causing them to reach wrong conclusions way too often.

And then pile on top of that the fact that these ADHDers are reluctant to act on any of their conclusions, because of how mad people tend to get when the ADHDers do something wrong based on those wrong conclusions.

Ask yourself what your reaction would have been to your husband if he had come up from the man-cave, offering to put in a temporary light in the curb work area for your nighttime shopping. If you are like me, you probably would have looked at him like he was nuts, and been annoyed with him for thinking about something so irrelevant instead of offering to help with the groceries. (Which, incidentally, would have reinforced his belief that his conclusions are no good, so he dare not act on them.)

Now, this doesn't mean there isn't *any* element of self-centeredness or laziness at work here. This decision-making paradigm that I've just described can easily encourage any inherent or latent tendency towards laziness or self-centeredness. And obviously, I have no way of knowing to what extent that may be true of your partner. My point is that, his behavior could really very easily be his ADHD as much or more than anything else. In order to make that determination, you will need to better understand how your partner's memory and decision-making processes work.

I've found that because of all this, I have had to ask my spouse for help if I want it. But here's an interesting side-effect: when I began asking for help, it gave him more "dots" of information, and something of a pattern for organizing them better. It *helped him learn* when I wanted help and when I didn't. As a result, I now have to ask for help a lot less often, and he *offers* his help every time I come home with shopping, because now he has confidence that his conclusion that I probably need it is right.

I hope something here helps!

"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore

Asking for help

Asking for help sounds so simple. But I find that "simple" requests like that are fraught with difficulty. When I need help in the moment and ask for it, I risk being ignored, being snapped at because my request is interpreted as implying my wife is being lazy when she should be helping me, or told "OK" only for that help not to materialize. If the help does not materialize and I do it myself, I also risk getting snapped at - "I SAID I was going to help. You want everything in YOUR time.". If I wait and nothing happens and I ask again, I risk getting snapped at with the same words. I understand about people with ADHD not acting because they don't trust their conclusions, and they don't want to risk causing a spouse's annoyance or comment that makes them feel bad for coming to the wrong conclusion. Well, I think I am suffering from a similar malady. I am so unsure of when I will be snapped at for something that seems so harmless to me, that I almost would rather not say anything. It's less painful to just do it myself than ask, only to be disappointed, or worse, snapped at or insulted. I am so careful not to criticize my wife, and yet I am criticized by her for all kinds of things. Sorry - I'm just dumping because we've had a difficult morning. But for me, "just ask" does not seem to be a solution.

how matters

As with just about everything else with ADHD, it seems, *how* you ask for help matters. I have no idea how you are asking, or how often, or under what conditions. Here's what I've learned from my experience.

Your partner does not know you need help now unless you say so. Your partner does not know what you need help with unless you say so. Your partner does not know you don't believe she's lazy unless you say so. Your partner does not know that you don't want to interrupt certain things she may be doing unless you say so. Your partner does not know that you can't put off what you're doing until later unless you say so. And so on.

Sometimes when I come home with groceries I don't want/need help. Sometimes I can't bring it all in one trip and I do want help. Sometimes I have a lot of frozen or refrigerator items and want the help right away; sometimes I don't. Sometimes the need is urgent (e.g. melting ice cream on a hot day) and I want him to interrupt what's he's doing. Sometimes the need is less urgent and I'd rather he kept doing whatever he's in the middle of. These are things I need to communicate to him.

And I need to be as respectiful of his time and efforts as I would like him, and expect him, to be of mine. So, if I'm going to interrupt him, I apologize for it. If I need the help urgently, it's much more likely that I will be interrupting him, so it's likely I need to apologize -- so likely that I just may as well do it routinely.

And because I know I can't just trust to his good intentions, I make sure that he responds with more than just words before moving on from my request. He gets up to help, or at the very least we make eye contact and he nods. These things reinforce the discussion and understanding.

So, when I "just ask" for help with the groceries, it might go something like this: "Honey, I'm real sorry if I'm interrupting you, but I have melting ice cream in the car -- it's so hot out today -- and I also really need a bathroom right now -- so I'm afraid I have to ask you to go out to the car RIGHT NOW and bring the ice cream and the other frozen foods in. The frozen foods are all on the passenger seat in the front of the car, so just bring all those bags in, please? I would really appreciate it." This gives him the specific info he needs to know in order to act appropriately -- and it tells him I respect his time and appreciate his help. Since I don't ask for help all the time with everything, he knows that I wouldn't be asking for this specific help, right now, unless I really needed this specific help, right now. And if at all possible, I don't just call to him -- I go to where he is, and I wait until he gets up and start moving to act.

At other times, when my need isn't urgent but I could really use the help, the conversation might be more along the lines of: "Dear, I hope I'm not interrupting anything important, but I've got a lot of groceries out in the car and I could really use some help." He might say, "sure, give me a minute" (in which case I prepare to give him two or three or even four minutes before I would return and repeat my request), or "sorry, I'm in the middle of something here" (in which case I would say, "OK, nevermind", or "OK, when you're done, please come help"). And I *never ever ever ever* accept a mere "OK". As I tell him every time he offers only that, I don't know what "OK" means. (Does "OK" mean, I'll come now? Does it mean, I'll come in a while? Does it mean, I heard you? Does it mean, I understand but don't plan to help? "OK" is way, way too vague. If I get an answer of "OK", I always say, "I'm really sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean with 'OK'.")

If you are doing all this, and your partner is still snapping at you, it sounds like she's being pretty unreasonable and you may need to have some serious sessions with a counselor together to discuss it.

"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore

I would like to second

I would like to second everything Arwen posted. Sadly, we ADDers need very, very clears instruction and we need to know how urgent something is. Unless there is a hard and fast rule that every time you come home with the shopping you need help that is. Hubby and I have a lot of these blanket rules. Shopping must always be helped brought it. The kitchen must always be clean before dinner is cooked. The dog must always be put out right after you wake up in the morning. When cleaning the floors the furniture must always be moved. Just as we struggle with subtlety in the social arena, we also struggle with subtlety in all other areas of life. I hate rules that have exceptions. Example: I still have a hard time with the fact that some jokes are funny only when told by certain people to certain people at certain times, and other times the joke is inappropriate. Such as some jokes are only funny if told amongst women or only if they are told by a man. Example: You can't wear white after labour day? HUH? But the rest of the time its okay? When can I put it on again? Why is there such a rule? Example: Some times you have to jump up to help with brining in the shopping and sometimes you can take your time. Example: You can't wear hats at the dinner table, except certain kinds of ladies hats. This sort of thing makes navigating the world so much more difficult for the ADDer. Sadly, we need either "always must" or "always never" rules or clear instruction on what is needed from us or what is or is not acceptable.

What Does OK Mean

Thanks Arwen, Your counsel is sound, as usual. I like your tact of asking for clarification when your husband just says "OK." I find I have difficulty getting clarification when I ask for it, though. What I tend to get is a spouse who thinks I am grilling her. Maybe if I preface it with "I'm really sorry" as in your example. I'll give it a try.

How about re-stating rather

How about re-stating rather than asking about the okay? "Thank you for agreeing to help me with the groceries in 5 minutes"

"Re-stating" would backfire with my spouse

Even though my husband would want me to believe that "OK" means "Yes, I'll help", because that puts him in the most favorable light, it would really rub him the wrong way if I said "Thank you for agreeing to help me with the groceries in 5 minutes". He would argue that he didn't agree to any timeframe, and it would make him feel like I was backing him into a corner. Thati's why I always avoid putting any interpretation on "OK", and instead ask him what he means. (And I try really hard not to ask in a challenging or exasperated way, but with sincere confusion and a true desire to understand.)

The whole issue of "help" has been a years-long debate between my spouse and me. It's my view that the person who needs the help defines what help is needed. I don't scorn another's ideas or other help in addition to what I need, but in the end, if I need help, I'm the one who knows what I need. My husband always says he likes to be helpful, it makes him feel good to help, but he often "helped" in ways that did not meet my need, and then was groused when I only mildly appreciative (it took away from his feeling pleased with himself). It took a lot of conversation for him to understand that when his actions didn't help me, it didn't matter how helpful he *felt* (or wanted to feel!), the *reality* was that he still hadn't helped me. My view was that if he really wanted to help, we should work on communicating better about the needs and help, so that we could achieve our goals -- his view was that he didn't see why he should have to do so much work if he was being such a good guy and helping. What his perspective amounted to was that I should support his fantasy (not that he thought of it that way!) because it would be easier for him if I would just accept whatever help he offered without qualification or constraint and not "let on" that my need for help hadn't been met. Ironically, this is what his mom does with his dad, and he thinks his dad is being ridiculous. But he couldn't see it in himself.

These are the reasons why we've migrated to requiring very clear statements of the help wanted, and requiring clear statements of the help being offered. I'm not saying that other methods won't work for other people! But they won't work for us . . .

"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore

Sorry when I said re-statment

Sorry when I said re-statment I meant that you are re-stating what your question had been. As you had posted about being very clear when you ask.

"Honey can you help me out with the groceries in 5 minutes?" ... "Okay" ... "Great, thanks for agreeing to help me in 5 mintues"

It is something our family therapist had us do and it works well enough for us and with the kids. But of course everyone is different.

You're singing her tune!

Check out my User Name to see why your post hits a cord with me.

Thank you for venting. Your comments validate my wife's frustration, and my own in an indirect way, by showing me we're not unique - that others are going through the exact same problems!

The answer to your question is quite easy, ADHD plays a HUGE role! Since your question implies it must be one or the other, ADHD is the one!

(BTW, I prefer B&W logic. That's the way my mind works. Even when the answer is both black and white, I'm more comfortable with it than those annoying shades of grey that seem to want to corrupt everything, as with arwin's painful "can easily encourage any inherent or latent tendency towards laziness". Ouch.)

I'll bet this answer doesn't satisfy you. Would the opposite? If folks here all agreed that he was "just lazy", would you print out the thread, shove it under his lazy-ass nose and say, "See!"? OK, That might actually be nice for a minute or two... for you... but really, what would that change? He might even be shamed into trying hard for a day or a week, which would just PROVE he can do it if he tries.

If he were "just lazy" yelling at him and being cold to him is not going to change anything. It just assures the resentment is two-way and seemingly permanent.

If your marriage is like mine, he truly cares about you and wants to please you as much as when you were dating and he vacuumed his car for each date. But, like my wife, you wear your frustration on your sleave. It is a feature of your marriage. It is ugly. You know it. But he's the one not acting, not caring. He CAUSES your frustration. This not some damn "disorder" or chemical imbalance or something. It has to be SOMEONE's fault! It is HIS.

[I got off on a negative tangent there... Let's recenter.]

This line of thought is not helpful. Understandable, but not helpful. The better, more actionable, more meaningful answer is ADHD. If you could just adjust how you ask for favors, remind without resentment, do all the planning, most of the chores, and let him fail repeatedly without consequence...

[This is not going well...I had a positive ending in my head when I started. Damn!]

Good luck to both of you. Kiss him for no reason if you can.

- SheThinks...

Forum topic: ADHD or just lazy????? I need to vent!