Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on 06/19/2016.
I shall take a day to step out of the 'Wife" box and tell you about a man with ADHD and what kind of Dad he is, what he did, and what he did not do
- Sunday School teacher
- Youth Group Leader
- Cub Scout Leader
- Built playhouses out of appliance boxes
- Spent hours building mazes - - out of appliances boxes and duct tape - - - that filled 1/2 of an elementary gymnasium, for PTA carnivals and VBS picnics.
- Wore a Clifford the Big Red Dog costume for a book fair
- Built a bunny hutch
- Painted a teenage girl's pink bedroom light blue, and then a few years later, dark blue
- Built sleds out of cardboard boxes
- Attended Dad and Kids' Camp
- Coached softball every summer from the time they were old enough to play, until they got out of high school
- Did fun - - really fun - - -Children's sermons
- Let his children work with him
- Taught his children, by example, excellence in work ethic
- Never drank
- Never degraded his children
- Never insulted his children
- Never hit his children
- Never called his children names
- Let his children try things
- Climbed ladders to hide Easter baskets on tree branches
- Made igloos in the snow
- Dug holes, filled them with water, and let his children play in the mud.
- Spent a whole summer growing a flower garden to make bouquets and flower arrangements for his daughter's wedding. Even though her marriage collapsed, the memories of the flowers remains.
- Is spending the day with his 27 year old son, continually trying to learn by doing, letting his son take the lead and make decisions, and doing things the way his son wants them done.
- This is just a sampling of 27 years of his gifts at being a Dad.
With love,
Liz
Thanks for sharing this, Liz.
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Liz, wonderful Daddy
Submitted by dedelight4 on
This was truly heartfelt and heartwarming. Thank you for sharing it with us. My husband did a few things like that, but instead of him more focused on the kids having fun, he was more concerned with how much the kids were going to "appreciate" him for the effort he put in to DO the activity. It often took the enjoyment out of the activity for all of us, when he expected too much like that.
Glad your husband did these things. Nice.
Liz, wonderful Daddy
Submitted by dedelight4 on
This was truly heartfelt and heartwarming. Thank you for sharing it with us. My husband did a few things like that, but instead of him more focused on the kids having fun, he was more concerned with how much the kids were going to "appreciate" him for the effort he put in to DO the activity. It often took the enjoyment out of the activity for all of us, when he expected too much like that. He's taken on the demeanor of his father and doesn't realize it. He didn't like the way his father did this, and he's done the same thing. I guess another area of denial.
Glad your husband did these things. Nice.
Dedelight4, my ex-FIL is like
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Dedelight4, my ex-FIL is like this, too.
I Could Only Dream of Having a Father Like ADH9er
Submitted by kellyj on
Liz,
I can't imagine....your kids are not reaping the benefits. Love shows differently for different people I think. All I see is Love here for your children...it seems like he was putting their needs first in every case you mentioned:)
J
Anyone can be a father, it takes a special man to be a Daddy
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
J,
You are correct on all parts. He loved and loves his children!
Liz
Kudos to this Dad
Submitted by Delphine on
It is clear he really loves his kids and has enjoyed his role as a father.
Like J, I dreamed of a Dad like that. My father once admitted to me that he saw us as a "duty." To be fair to him though, it was not easy having the responsibility of five children by the age of 33. And he did shoulder that responsibility. Interestingly though, in later life, he also told us that we were the best thing that happened to him.
Yes...we are all doing our best. Thanks again for sharing, Liz.
Delphine
Duty....Delphine
Submitted by kellyj on
It's interesting that your father actually said it. I saw it and felt it....and this is what replaced Love in our family. This was part of that symbolic living of life I mentioned earlier. Like going through the motions....because it's you duty? What if there was no duty? Then what?
I think in leu of anything else. What you see is what you get = then what? lol That open door policy I have with my wife...ensures there's no then what involved. Either you want to...or you don't. Who wants to be with someone (or they with you) because they have to? I think that's just selling yourself short in the end.
What I see with ADDHer....is the genuine article. There's no replacement for that. That's what makes it special at the end of the day.
J
No replacement, but...
Submitted by Delphine on
"What I see with ADDHer....is the genuine article. There's no replacement for that. That's what makes it special at the end of the day."
I feel that ultimately we all need to learn to "parent" ourselves. None of us was ever loved by parents as totally as we would wish. Still, they were doing their best with the resources they had.
So we need to give our "inner children" the love that wasn't available to them at the time. We can't spend the rest of our lives bemoaning what was.
Delphine
I Agree...... Delphine
Submitted by kellyj on
What we didn't get when we were young...there really is no going back or getting it from someone else. It's up to us to get that for ourselves and pick up where our parents left off no matter your own particular situation. If you never really left your parents house (emotionally speaking)....you'll still be answering to them instead of answering to yourself. I think that's what self parenting really is? Learning to get your own needs met....by yourself...for yourself. If we never learn to do that on our own....we will always be someone else's dependent?
J
Absolutely, J
Submitted by Delphine on
You said it all.
Delphine
Sincere Gratitude
Submitted by ADH9er on
Sincere Gratitude
First to Liz for the kind remembrances of my efforts as a Daddy.
And to all here who have admonished my achievements and character.
A special note: as I read the above responses ladies, I was drawn to the soft nuance of recognition spoken of some of your kids dads.
Here's the rub: I grew up with an 'older' father who never tossed a ball to me. He was unable to have that kind of relationship with me or any of the SEVEN of his offspring. (He did the best he was able given his burdens. I cannot fathom the ravages that his [apparent] Un-diognosed Unheard-of ADHD had on his day to day existence, given my ongoing challenges with 'eyes open' to this ‘Gift.’) Now to make my point it will sound like I'm tooting my own horn, bear with me, Nobody sat me down and instructed me how to be, for my kids, what my Dad 'couldn't' be for me. I dug down deep, really deep, to pull it out of thin air in a sense, and do whatever it took, no matter how difficult or foreign it was, to give of something I had only imagined. Mind you, in the midst of a highly-charged 'less than perfect' family dynamic, and a very strained marriage dynamic. In my humble opinion this is nothing short of miraculous. Especially given all the 'Trademark ADHD Symptoms and floundering' I exhibited throughout.
i promise I'll get to my point !
O-K taking that, and adding all the other seemingly insurmountable aspects of my uphill journey, pre-diognosis to now, that I have and continue to persever toward growth and change, {still in progress} I unabashedly claim, for myself. -Worthiness-
Here it comes !
The last time there was Sexual Intimacy in my marriage, I was 53. (IMPORTANT NOTE: there has not been one smidgen outside my marriage either). At the end of August I am turning 59. I do, and have for some time, acknowledge that there were numerous reasons leading up to why that part of our relationship was put on hold.
Call me a perv or a horn-dog or whatever you must, On Father's Day, as with most days, a prevailing thought was/ is - in order for me to have become a 'physiological' Father... I / we had sex, we shared our intimate love for each other.
In ADHD Time Measurement, from then to now = many lightyears. My remaining faithful as a red blooded, aging, hederosexual man, with ever fading virility, while doing my best to evolve, ADHD OR NOT, also (in my view) deems me Worthy.
I do not feel that I am deemed by my wife as Worthy, not withstanding any of my efforts and accomplishments in the last 5 years.
So when I become frustrated or irritated hearing No upon No to my ‘ignorant’ requests to spend time with her, there is a good bit of backstory.
I did have a relatively happy Father's Day.
Thanks
ADH9er
I can't speak to your
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I can't speak to your situation, since I don't know what it is.
I can speak to mine and my friends' situations who are married to ADHD men and their sex lives are strained.
Some feel like their H's hardly pay any attention to the them EXCEPT when they want sex. In fact, even though these men have been "faithful," these women feel like the men get their appetites going elsewhere, and then expect their wives to "take care of their sexual needs" after ignoring them or being rude to them or being insensitive to them all day.
What's it like being your
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
What's it like being your wife? What is it like being married to you? If you were a woman, would you pick you as a husband? If so, why? Or why not?
How do you frustrate and upset your wife? How do you ruin her day? How do you "make her day"? How do you make her feel special...everyday? How do you make her life easier? How do you lighten her load?
When she's ill, what do you do for her?
Is she running around late at night getting things done for the family while you're relaxing?
How do you honor her on her "special days" (birthdays, Christmas, Valentine's, Anniversaries)? Do your attempts look "last minute, no effort planned"? Are there gifts that you've thoughtfully purchased knowing she'll enjoy them? Or, do you treat her days like they're afterthoughts?
These are the questions that my H's therapist asked him and it shook him up. He'd never thought about them. Really.
Well said overwhelmedwife,
Submitted by Delphine on
Well said overwhelmedwife, and I was about to make a similar post.
ADH9er, you state that you are "worthy" and thus by implication, "deserve" sex. What about your wife? Is she worthy enough to be wooed rather than taken for granted?
Could you perhaps plan a special evening out for the two of you, all details taken care of? Maybe even surprise her with a lovely gift over dinner?
Flowers once in a while? A vacation? Hire a housecleaner to pick up your slack?
Isn't she worthy?
Delphine
What I said was ...
Submitted by ADH9er on
Delphine,
I very purposefully chose the word 'worthy' and not deserve or entitled because my goal in communicating is to convey "No, I am not perfect" AND "No I am not a self centered bigot either."
In the last two weeks I have fulfilled her requests for: installing the new 18'x33' swimming pool with our adult children, fill it with 17,000 gallons of water from the stream a mile from our home, get the water from green to Chrystal Clear,plant the tomatoes she started from seed (prepare garden w/ compost, manure, till,watering system. Extend up the 5 bird feeders, provide 3 tons of landscape rock (hand shoveled till after 11pm, move the (large) azalea plant (asked at 8:00pm. Finished at 11:30pm, put up a watering system for the meadow flowers out front,
ask her about Valentine's Day, or how often I offer to cook or go out for Sunday breakfast, or what gifts I gave over the past 5 years, the purple bicycle, the Hello Kitty Build-a-Bear, the Koala Pillow, the Meadow Flower Seed packets,
Flowers ? Are you kidding me ? Your talking to a guy who grew & arranged & entered 17 arrangements/specimens at the county fair where Liz works, and won 18 ribbons including 10 First & 1 Best of show. Since we met 34 years ago, my loving gestures of 'flower arrangements you can't buy in stores' number in the hundreds.(and shouldered occasional 'manly' peer put downs for 'wasting money')
Can you hear my frustration??? Do I seem so UNworthy ?
ADHD9er
So are you saying that you
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
So are you saying that you have no idea what you do that frustrates and upsets your wife?
Yes, you have a list of good things that you do. My H could list many good things that he's done for me and for our children over the last 33+ years.. But ANYONE who knows us, knows that he is extremely difficult to live with (although better in the last 3-4 months because of new meds). If H came on this forum and listed 20 good things he's done, there are people here who wouldn't know better that would say, What is OWW complaining about? She has an H who has earned a bunch of money over the last 33 years, who took his kids to Scouts, who coached their teams, who rubs her back, and who has bought her anything she's wanted. Yes, that's true. And those all sound nice. Wow, lucky us!
But, he'd be very remiss because he wouldn't mention that (before the last few months), he'd regularly rage, and never cared where he was when he did this (in public, in stores, in restaurants, in the front yard with neighbors staring, in hotels, on vacations, in front of relatives and friends, etc). That he's locked me out of our home knowing that I didn't have my keys with me. That he's irrationally accused me of lying and of having affairs (I've never even held hands with another man in over 35 years.) That's he's purposely broken or thrown away my things in anger. Twice I've lost over 3/4 of my clothing because he's taken them and thrown them into an unknown dumpster. Flushed my jewelry down the toilet. Thrown my phone into a toilet. And, he'd never mention that he would get roaring drunk during or after some of these episodes. He might mention that he spent 3 months in rehab, but he'd only mention that to make it sound like he did something wonderful, when in truth the first night he came home, he drank.
The first thing H complains about to his therapists (he's had several, they usually fire him after several months), is that he doesn't get enough sex. (In his mind, sex should be every day, regardless of whether he's been in a bad mood, broke something of mine or was just a total jerk that day.). In his mind, he's married so he should get sex whenever he wants it. In his mind, I should WANT to have sex as often as he does. To him, it's like scratching an itch; you do it no matter what happened a few hours earlier. The only exceptions are when he's really raging and then he insists that he can't bear to even be in the same house with me. (Lol...I gladly leave and go to our vacation home for a week of peace and quiet!)
Now, for the past 4 months, he's been on new meds and he's been taking them (almost) properly. He's now very calm and much more reasonable. Whether he'll continue taking the meds and taking them properly, who knows. While in this mode, a physical relationship is possible.
My point is that you've mentioned the good things that you do. What are the things that you do that annoy the hell out of Liz?
ADHDer. Can you answer my post above?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Also...I'd like to add: what are you doing to help your wife fall in love with you again? I'm sure she loves you, but she may need to "fall in love" romantically again.
what are you doing to facilitate that? (Again, that means NOT doing things that annoy her...and it means doing the right things so she's not annoyed.)
My answer to you is...
Submitted by ADH9er on
I sense that your motivation behind what you ask, has less to do with healing education and enlightenment than with the angry and frustrating suffering you are enduring.
I mean no disrespect, I choose to pass.
ADH9er
No, you are mistaken because
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
No, you are mistaken because many of the questions weren't mine.. H's therapist's questions and my few additional points were simply supposed to "plant seeds of thought," and suggest "another viewpoint." The "other spouse's viewpoint" is rarely considered by the ADHD spouse, which is why H's therapist asked those questions of him.
Are you saying that his therapist is coming from a place of anger? I doubt that. I think the therapist is coming from a place of years of experience.
I didn't expect you to actually write down responses. You've read the questions. You can't help but at least ponder them, unless you're in complete denial, which I doubt since you're in this forum. When H's therapist asked him those questions, she really wanted him to pause and think....she didn't ask for immediate answers. I'm guessing that she wanted H to just "absorb" the questions and contemplate because she didn't want a simple knee-jerk "I'm the victim, I'm the wonderful spouse" response.
ADH9er You are right and
Submitted by Zapp10 on
not alone.
Some years back,when I was going for counseling, the counselor(C) suggested I ask my H to come with me as some of my "issues" related to the marriage. I asked, H came. C says to H...so I asked you to join in today.....is there anything in your marriage you think is an area of concern that needs to be addressed?( Note here...our daughter had suddenly died 4 months earlier). My H responded.....well... no....I can't think of anything......except I don't have sex as much as I'd like to.(that is an exact quote and has been burned in my mind all these years)
And after all these years I have come to realize that to my H sex is his way of showing/ receiving love.He needs nothing else from me. He can give me a hateful glare and 2 hours later wants some "loving"? It doesn't matter if I am sick, exhausted, my mom died, my dad died, I am sound asleep......the TIMING of his need I never figured OUT! Just ADD it to the list of all his other needs that I am supposed to support and care about.....oops.....I am starting to steam....not my intention....just wanted you to know ADH9er that my husband believes like you....how's that "working" for you?
P.S. Us wives have a back story too.
To Zapp10
Submitted by ADH9er on
I offer my condolences for your unimaginable loss.
Thank you for your steam-checked reply. As I read here, I ponder the Phrase: 'They all seem to look the same'. (ADHD men that is), Yes, seeing that I am not alone offers some sense of a broader perspective and hope. Your willingness to share your personal observation of your H core need, (amidst your suffering) speaks greatly of your tenacity. Thank you for seeing deeper, what I intended to convey, that the 'act' carries far greater weight than just a short lived Dopamine Fix. And yes I am learning that 'timing is everything or else it leaves nothing.
Hoping that I am not the only H working towards healing,
ADH9er
Quite alike ADH9er
Submitted by Zapp10 on
I have followed both you and your wife. We are quite alike in MANY ways. One of them being improving where needs be. I have no doubt that you are trying to "wrap your brain" around the challenge of ADD. As is your wife and also me. I see my spouse in what you write. I see me in what Liz writes. ADD is not the ONLY issue in marriages like ours...but that is what I am referencing for now.
Being encouraged/discouraged is such a roller coaster for all parties. Sorting out ADD behavior from who a person is can be a slippery slope and I am sure many mistakes are made on our(wives) part and I am just as sure there are ones on the H's. My BIGGEST complaint?........I AM NOT THE ENEMY! I have paid the price for what my H feels/thinks about himself and had it strapped to my back and I am honestly unable to carry it any longer.
Gee, hubby....I'll carry that for you so you can go do what you want....Don't concern yourself with me and the load I am carrying,this is why I got married......if it will make your life better that's ALL that matters......no, I am kinda tired from your burden I am carrying so no sex tonite...but I will fix a terrific dinner!....and OMG! I do not expect you to do dishes....that's what women were BORN for.....you just go stress about having to go to work tomorrow...... (ok I am being sarcastic.....wink,wink)
I did not put a curse on him! I did not siphon dopamine from his brain! I never dreamed I was such a bitch.....why didn't H tell me sooner? I am just as sure H didn't want to be an ASS...WTH? How do 2 people wind up like this AFTER ALL these years?
I don't make fun of Leave It To Beaver anymore........at least there was RESPECT.........and that to me is the biggest way that ADD affects us......and I am sorry but my H needs to recognize that what he says I don't give him(respect) ....has been the very thing undiagnosed ADD ALLOWED him to "withdraw" from not only me but many others.
There is nothing wrong with the intelligence level of those with ADD......comprehension is not affected ONCE the ADD is ACKNOWLEDGED, WORKED ON and REINED IN. It will NEVER go away...I understand that. I just want my H to make the SAME effort I have to learn and understand ADD. It is a PRIORITY for this marriage.
Please keep up your end to the very best of your ability. I want everyone dealing with this to succeed!
Yes, alike in many ways
Submitted by ADH9er on
Zapp10,
Does your H read here? Has he ever joined in the conversation? How might you think he would deal with the vulnerability of being 'fair game'? If you thought it a good idea, let him know I would be interested in getting to know him.
ADH9er
ADH9er.....
Submitted by Zapp10 on
My H knows I reading ADD forums. Does not know I am posting. I have to say I don't know what he would say about "joining in".....which is a very odd feeling for me....to say I don't know what he would do.....I used to know this man,inside out....and now....? Then again...maybe I am just hesitant because ADD is involved and I am weary of his reaction?
I wish he would as it would offer him a place to learn and possibly gain insight to ADD. One thing I DO KNOW is he has spent a cursory amount of time seeking to understand this issue.....that is sucking the life out of this marriage.......and, for him, not talking about it will make it go away.....and it will......not the ADD as he hopes.....but the marriage...
I will tell him you inquired if he would join in the forum.....I will fasten my seat belt first.:-)
I am so sorry to read about
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I am so sorry to read about the loss of your daughter. So very sorry.
Overwhelmed, You are
Submitted by Zapp10 on
very kind in offering your condolences.
It has been 17 years in July.
Never could imagine living without her for one day....let alone years.
I have often thought....if we have learned how to survive that unimaginable nightmare why can't we come to terms with something that CAN be "fixed" so to speak.
For crying out loud! Are you kidding me! AFTER what we have been through.....YOU think this is such a freaking big deal and you can't do it? WTF!
And there you have it......the anger and frustration of mine and where it comes from.
I apologize and yet ....I am tired of keeping things to myself.....sweet Jesus.
Maybe this is not the meaning you intended?
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
......to all here who have admonished my achievements and character.....
Is admonished the meaning you meant to use here?
Admonish: To warn or reprimand someone firmly. "She admonished me for appearing at breakfast unshaven'" Synonyms: reprimand, rebuke, scold, reprove, reproach, upbraid, chastise, chide, berate, criticize,take to task, read the riot act to, rake/haul over the coals;
Wondering,
Liz
Yup, I used a Way-Wrong-Word
Submitted by ADH9er on
I was going for something along the line of : recognized. Or. pointed positively toward Or. at-a-boy'ed
Thanks for wondering and bringing it to my attention. Wikipedia shall be my new friend.
ADH9er
: ) You go, Adh9er
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Long may you wave, Dad!
Hugs to you both.
Very nice!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Happy Fathers Day to Liz's hubby and to the other dads here.
My H was somewhere in between the descriptions here. When the kids were younger, he did a lot of things with them and for them....camping trips, sports, Boy Scouts, etc.
But, as they got older, he did expect too much "gratefulness". They're kids. They were thankful, but usually people have to be older to really appreciate what parents did for them.
H had a hard time understanding age-appropriate behavior.
They place we have grown to be
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
OWW,
I have struggled to find a way to convey my thoughts to my spouse. I try using metaphors, emotional word pictures, direct specific descriptions, and I feel as I can't get through. There are many, many things good things about my spouse.
It is the little foxes that spoil the vines. Some things I can just learn to live with. Others, I cannot. I try to reassure my spouse that I do see personal growth in his efforts. I do believe he is working hard. I do. I do. I do.
Conflict resolution has been the downfall. . . forever. I can no longer just fluff it off, or overlook things that are major issue - to Liz.
I really can't find the wherewithal, nor the strength, nor the gumption, nor any other piece of myself to give to the relationship management stuff.
I have a need for semblance of order and knowing what to keep and what not to keep. When things grow out of their holding pens, whether it is my scrapbooking stash, or my material, or my crafting supplies, or my office supplies, or kitchen utensils and containers, it is time to sort stuff and keep what is important, and give/share/throw-away the overflow. I can do that. I see how the executive function skills enter into that arena. If I get rid of something I've had for years, and next month I need it - - oh well, I laugh it off and go get another one. Mr. Murphy and his law!!!
Problems and difficulties are exactly that - problems and difficulties. They do not define me. They do not make me less, or imperfect, or damaged, or defective. They do get in the way of relationship dynamics.
I do not know of anyone - - -not one person - - -who would say, "Hey, my life is terrific. Everything is going smoothly. It is wonderful. I think I will go pay a counselor/therapist to share the good news."
My many failed attempts at negotiation and re-negotiation have not reaped the result I want and need and desire. That is my frustration.
I will share a - in my opinion - perfect example. I grew up on a farm with a pond off in the back of the property. I loved - loved - to go back there and fish. Bluegill were plentiful and made for a good supper. Fried fresh fish. Yum. Occasionally I caught a huge large mouth bass. Mostly we were required by my Dad to put them back, so we didn't really get to eat them. But the bluegill, we could catch a bucketful with no problem! Fishing back there, away from - or sometimes with - my siblings was blissful. I loved it. Enjoyed it. Many happy memories. My spouse is working at a job where there is a huge pond. He asked me if I wanted to go fishing there with him. I said no thanks. It seems he felt rejected and it seems he got angry. I tired to explain. It seems to fall on deaf ears. I suggested he ASK me what I would like to do rather than guess and then be angry when it is not something I would enjoy doing. Or, best yet, just let a no be a no, and not tie anything else to it. I understood him to say he has asked me 5 things, and I said no to every one. Well, it may be true.
I still have no way to deal with my own walls. Sometimes, I want to do things when I WANT to do them. Or when I ask. Or when they are high on the list for me.
Very truly,
Liz
Good Work
Submitted by jennalemone on
Following Liz's example, I will list and maybe update this list later to add on, my gratitude list.
He worked for 20 productive years to buy a house.
He coached a young boys soccer team.
He mows lawn.
He trims trees.
He used to grade the neighborhood gravel driveway.
Made a sandbox.
He used to clear the snow from the neighborhood gravel driveway.
He shovels snow.
When he was younger, he fixed things around the house. drains, windows, roofing, took down a screen porch with son, installation of appliances, moving things and carrying boxes, setting up Christmas trees, children's swings, sandbox, car restoration, car maintenance.
When he was younger, he: went to church with us, would go out to eat with me for date night, made me laugh when I felt like crying, Talked.
Never hit his children.
Never hit me.