Submitted by YorkshireLass on 05/31/2016.
I wonder about some of the stories of women in these forums speaking of their ADHD spouses. I have a female friend who is married to an ADHD guy - she is terribly ADHD, while her house is a mess and decorating is not her focus, she and he seem to have it mostly together - their kid is fine and loved, no one forgets to pick the kid up. Both of them engage in high risk sports - kiteboarding, whitewater kayaking --- it is their way of expressing their need to hyperfocus. She has had problems with keeping a job and is a risky driver, but does manage to almost always be employed or is productive in spurts and the employer accepts. Then I have another friend who is basically a single parent to her ADHD, now ex-husband. He was just a mess, drinking too much and being selfish, unreliable, defiant... all the things people here talk about. He blames ADHD but I've seen functional ADHDers so I kind of think maybe its just his personality. I am ADD, have impulsive behaviours and take risks with driving - plus the high risk sports though I have always been self supportive and self motivated (though I have my moments). I guess my personal experience doesn't support ADHD being the entire reason behind some of these stories. I feel some of these men are enabled to to wreak havoc on their families. My experience supports that the people I know with ADHD can actually be exceptional achievers if they scrape together the discipline or very bright and clever but just don't achieve up to their potential ... the ones I know are self sufficient, hard to keep up with and lots of fun. Definitely not for the "safety first" crowd ... but not the jay holes some people describe in these forums. That seems to be just ... them.
I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
I think that ADHD covers a
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I think that ADHD covers a very wide spectrum of behaviors and presents itself very differently in different people. It is often times also accompanied by other disorders which complicate the situation.
My husband and son both have ADHD. However, they couldn't be any more different.
Husband- quiet, respectful, highly focused, very successful, adrenaline junkie, lacks empathy and emotions
Son- loud, outgoing, disrespectful, scattered, not goal oriented
We have worked tirelessly with our son (16 yo) to teach him self discipline, responsibility, and respect. He is still a disaster at home, but we receive many compliments about his good behavior when he's in public. Only time will tell if he will mature into a responsible adult.
Personal Thoughts Here.....
Submitted by kellyj on
....which might be another way of saying my opinion. Which is exactly what this is saying? lol
I have soul searched for an answer to explain this myself... and have also done my homework too. And have done all these comparisons myself for that answer. For what it's worth. IMHO
Character is part learned....part innate personality. If you never have a good example, or were taught, or without the ability to learn by yourself ( IQ and emotionally intelligent naturally.....or smart? ) and simply never learn by example. The learned part is where the flaws come into play. Some who has been severely emotionally abused and neglected could end up this way....but not necessarily.
You have those from horrific back grounds, tragic childhoods, no education who will excel and go on to do great things with their lives. This is statistically proven and verified...so what up with that?
And then you have the Ted Bundy's of the world....from normal up bringing's, lots of opportunities and a fair amount of advantages who are smart as a whip? Ted Bundy was definitely character flawed!! (ASPD, NPD, BPD or the like in that spectrum and a serial killer on top of it)
The professional answer I got from my T ( PHD that is) says this..... there is no definitive corollary as to why that is?
A propensity to be self absorbed? Self absorbed as defined: Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary ...Full Definition of self–absorbed
: absorbed in one's own thoughts, activities, or interests
or
: only caring about and interested in yourself
So which one is it?
One implies that a self absorbed person doesn't care about anyone else as I interpret these two meanings.
The other one simply states a person who is very inwardly focused and implies they spend a lot of time focusing on their own personal interests, activities and thoughts....and possibly more than a person who is not self absorbed by definition only.
A person with ADD (the old nomenclature) to describe a person with ADHD without the H or hyperactivity as I know see it....is more introverted by nature.
Introverts seek more solitary time and get drained by too much social interaction with others and need lots of personal space and private personal time alone and tend to seek more solitary activities. They also tend to be more sensitive to intrusions by others who are less this way and have pretty clear well defined boundaries and needs in these areas and can also tend to be more restricted or limited by these personal boundaries in these areas. This isn't a character flaw...this is just that persons nature....neither good nor bad.
My oldest sister is an full blown introvert and I suspect ADD in her case (pretty darn sure but she has no idea).
She is: aloof, not easy to get to know, spends a lot of time alone, is not outgoing, conservative, very reserved, mostly quiet unless you really get to know her and then she can talk up a storm (but only for a limited time before she needs her down time).....and is the epitome of an introvert and she will admit that part herself. Yet...moral, kind, caring and very considerate to a flaw. Or...without a flaw in this case. She gets easily irritated and feels overwhelmed and more violated by people who don't respect her well defined boundaries since they are an intrusions into her personal space. Seeing people as an intrusion is a good way to say it. But that's only because she has such large boundary areas (if you picture square footage lol ) She fits right into the "Safety First Crowd" and then some. Very conservative yet...ADD.
On the other hand...if you're an extrovert like me who has the H component of ADHD....you're coming from a completely different direction. "Definitely not for the "safety first" crowd" lol...I thought that was a really good way to put it:)
For an extrovert by nature: they get charged up by social interaction and seek social activities with others and tend to get drained or bored when not in the company of others after too long. The amount of down time needed is shorter than for an introvert. The amount of personal space needed is smaller in general than an introvert. And there need for social interaction and to be social in general....makes them more open to new things, new activities, are more outgoing and less inwardly focused. In general....more easily fit into many different situations that involve other people since this is what they seek...which goes hand in hand with having good social skills, interaction skills and can tend to integrate more easily to a wide variety of social situations because that is their natural area of focus by nature. check
Seek fun and excitement and likes to do these things with other people. check
Seek more time away from home where other people congregate in groups outside of and away from their home life. check
Tend to be more involved and busy with lots of interests and activities. check
Tend to join groups or social clubs with people who share in the same interests and activities. check
Tend to spend a lot more time seeking these things and seeking these interests and less time at home and are less :"home bodies" than their introverted counter part. check
Not conservative!!!! check
Not bound by lots of restrictive rules or huge boundaries of personal space, highly inventive and always pushing the envelope check
When at home for too long or couped up or restricted by responsibility and obligations.... extroverts tend to be chomping at the bit to get outside or get away, have a high need to explore the outside world, get cabin fever and can't wait to get out an about outside the home and seek activity to compensate their need to be more social and more active by nature. check
Are doer's check
And now you put an extrovert with an introvert together and what have you got? Not a good fit what so ever. The more restrictive, more conservative, more inwardly focused, less socially motivated, less outwardly motivated, more inwardly going, conservative more home bodied introvert types.... are going to feel completely overwhelmed and violated and intruded upon by and extrovert type like myself. Trust me on that much....this one I know!! lol
To them....I might seem completely self absorbed, thoughtless, careless (reckless) and inconsiderate, have no respect for peoples personal space and boundaries? And am very selfish because of it. Not only that....I never want to be with them at home and are more interested in getting away and out and about with other people....since they don't want to go do that (or less) and like to be at home more and are way more conservative in general. Those are the judgments an introvert might make when judging the behavior of an extrovert like me.
For myself now....the ADHD extrovert. As I see my sister in comparison for example. She's rigid and inflexible and seems to always have to have things her way. More selfish about and guarding or personal space and time especially personal time alone and not very considerate of those who not just like her. She is controlled (not controlling big difference) but very restrictive to be with since those boundary lines are always getting in the way because that boundary area or comfort zone she has placed around her is like a force field that you keep hitting up against. You can't do anything or go anywhere without making it a big deal of it. Lots of pre-planning everything way in advance, no spontaneity ( like 0 compared to me ) not very social which means if I need to meet my own need for being social and outgoing....she will be left at home alone a lot.
If I were to live with her and try and match my personality with hers stay her comfort level or zone....it feels like slow death and living inside a Mausoleum (closed up....locked up....restricted....rigid....frigid....aloof.... and not socially motivated at all )
And to hang around my sister for too long.... I get cabin fever and feel imprisoned by her and am missing the best things in life ( for me that is) and what the world has to offer outside of the house....out in the world with other people....not inwardly directed to the inside world and specifically...the inside world inside my sisters head. She is a voracious reader and spends a huge amount of time reading books.
I've kidded my sister saying..."you could be dropped off on a desert island with a life time supply of books and only food, water and shelter...and you'd be happy as a clam at high tide." And she agrees. How selfish is that I tell you!! lol She's completely self absorbed in her own interests which does not include other people within those interests.
So what's the problem here? Are introverts the problem...or are extroverts the problem? And which one is better? And which one is right and which one is wrong?
The answer: none of the above.
The answer is....putting a conservative type introvert...with a not conservative type extrovert and trying to compromise between the two. They are opposites.....that's the problem as far as I can see it.
Are these character flaws? I don't think so....they're just different...depending on which type you are....both look selfish and self absorbed to each other but both can't be right and wrong at the same time either?
I think having ADHD....just exacerbates or intensifies these common features of humans because when we hyper focus...we focus intensely on the things that motivate us which depends on which type you are. That in my opinion....is a tendency to be more self absorbed by definition not selfish and not caring.
Not caring in my book....is selfish and character flawed. A person with ADHD can be selfish on top of being self absorbed too.... but ADHD doesn't cause a person to be this way either. That something else entirely.
And from my perspective being an extroverted guy with ADHD....I'd rather spend time with my wife....than I would be alone. And I'd rather spend time with my wife and go out with other people and be social and involved outside the home with her ....doing a variety of activities and doing those things with other people at the same time. In fact....I get bored doing the same things all the time. Eating the same food all the time. Doing the same routine all the time. Being with only one person all of the time. But....I always want my wife there if I am doing any of these things or doing them with other people.
It's all good....I'm easy in that way. This is my nature as an extrovert with ADHD.
Am I either self absorbed or selfish? I have to watch the self absorbed part and divide my time up better to include things my wife wants. The only thing I've really been selfish with in my history...is with time since I've taken on more than I can chew sometimes.
That's not personality or character flawed. That's just ADHD and not paying attention and hyper focusing on my interests. That's all that is. And that was one of the easiest things to fix of all the challenges ADHD presents you once you realize it and that's brought to your attention. No problem for me there.
Those are my personal thoughts about this....someone might have some different ideas about this? IMHO
J
J, ADHD and executive functioning
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I love all your analogy and personal insight on this. Very informative. I agree with people just being "different", and though. opposites attract, they don't make good long term partners. (But there area few exceptions)
Anyway, in addition to this, have you listened to Dr. Russell BARKLEY on ADHD and self regulation and executive functioning? It's on YouTube, where he explains about the frontal lobe of the brain and the executive "back" part of tHE brain,and how these two parts work or don't work together in an ADHD brain, and a more "normal" brain.It also throws light on WHY people do the things they do. He has some incredible information which has been thoroughly researched ans documented. His video on emotions is good too.
No Dede...I've Been Meaning To
Submitted by kellyj on
And in light of what NowOrNever was saying about rethinking and dwelling on your past relationships if you're divorced...lamenting and pining etc....
Which people do fo course....but in respect to everything I just said....and said to her about having to go back to see where you made your mistakes or what went wrong?
This is what went wrong with my ex wife and I . Just so you know. We were opposites....and this is exactly what happened and why we were in conflict. If you've got and introvert and an extrovert together.....both have to give up a lot....to be with each other. This is the main reason why we failed at least for my wife.
As I now have come to understand. It's easier I think....for an extrovert to adapt to an introvert even if they are both meeting in the middle...than it is for an introvert going the other direction. It's why I knew this and exactly what my T pointed out to us as to what the problem was. In fact....I think it's why....when my ex-wife came to that realization....she realized, she was just not up for it. This had less to do with ADHD....and more to do with that we were extreme opposites. It makes it's just that much more difficult I think.
FYI: In this months Discover Magazine....there's an article that tells of some more recent research showing....that mens and womens brains are actually different in some ways even though mostly the same. This difference although subtle....has an effect on the way men and women think. It appears connected with reproduction mostly: innate drives, biological clock etc.... It's really interesting and makes you think....there really is more too it sometimes and gender really does make a difference in how we think. Apparently....there is a biological difference as well but nothing to do with intelligence what so ever. I thought I better make that clear of get flamed for implying otherwise!!! lol I don't think it just so you know!! lol Please!! lol Anyway... I thought about this when you were describing ADHD brains from the video and I am totally a beleiver in this much for sure. I'll watch it and see what it says. Thanks.
J
Dede....Just Watched the Video
Submitted by kellyj on
I can confirm exactly what he said to myself here.
These areas of the brain mature more slowly than the other parts do. Two or three years behind. They do end up maturing but they have to catch up in child development. Yes for sure. It seemed like I was always a little behind when I was younger. But then caught up later with everyone else for the most part comparing my friends etc... That was confirming. As he said....has nothing to do with functioning....just delayed a bit depending on each person. Yes.
And...what I was speculating about my sister is even more telling. He said....the disorder does not always emerge as a full blown disorder in each child family member...but, it is more likely more often than not on average....that all the children might have the same brain development...but only one might have the disorder which means....the behaviors as he said it....might still the same or noticeable in the same family and much more subtle for the ones who don't have the full blown disorder.
Which goes right back to my sister. She was not hyperactive at all....and I was the only one in my family who was. Yet...the two of us think and are remarkably a like in some very peculiar ways that seem distinctly our own but we both share the same attributes but are different genders on top of it.....yet she is a full blown introvert...and I'm a full blown extrovert?
It seems my thoughts on this too....might fall right in line?
Last thing he said that was interesting in connection to the article about men and womens brain differences was exactly what the article said as well. The difference they are talking about with ADHD and with mens and womens brains is so small and almost insignificant...that it can't even be measured with brain scan imagery which refutes some of the previous research saying that it can be measured that way. He says no.
It's what the article said about men and woman brains. Too hard to measure...but yet the thinking says it's enough to show in behavior?
Fascinating stuff for sure. I'm going to watch some more these videos. Very informative. Thanks.
J
I am a firm believer in
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I am a firm believer in embracing different personality types and encouraging individuality. I believe that an introvert and an extrovert can happily live together if there is mutual respect and consideration of the other person. However, in some circumstances (possibly when ADHD is present) personality types can become very extreme. Prolonged exposure to extreme personalities, in my opinion, can cause harm to the family unit.
If you go to church you learn that a family unit must have a strong foundation. Ideally, the family foundation is built on solid rock (GOD) rather than shifting sand (absence of God). However, even solid rock begins to crumble under poor conditions. Every person in a family unit has needs. Every person needs shelter and food. Every person needs to be nurtured and loved. Every person within the family unit also has responsibilities. As I see it a child's primary responsibility is to attend school and do their best. Adults have to be providers of physical needs as well as emotional needs. Every person of the household should be respectful of the other members of the household, and on and on (you get the picture).
If any one person in the family isn't taking care of his/her responsibilities or if any one person's needs aren't being met, the foundation of the family starts to crack. Then the other members of the family have to step in and take on extra responsibilities to stop the crack. But as hard as the other family members try to stop the crack in the foundation more cracks appear and they spread. It's only a matter of time before the foundation completely crumbles and the family unit falls apart.
In my mind, this is how extreme personality traits ruin a family.
In my experience, extreme personality traits can also breed more extreme personality traits in the other family members. If person A has extreme extroversion to the point of neglecting the needs of the family, then person B, who is an introvert, may revert even further into him/herself as a defense mechanism to deal with neglect. When this happens the crumbling of the family foundation is happening at an exponential rate.
I Agree Hopeful Heart
Submitted by kellyj on
Extreme are what cause the damage or cause problems..Introverts and extroverts can add to each other lives quite well...as long as the gap isn't too bit and both go to the extreme in one direction....and can't move close enough to the middle to be happy.
And this is what I had to come to an understanding of....once I found out why I was so extreme in that one direction. Without knowing, or knowing the reason why.....I was that extreme and more of the problem in my past than my partners because of ADHD. That is something....I have firmly in my mind now but I think that is an ADHD problem and one we have to deal with and manage.
I'm still an extrovert....but the Adderal really knocked that down several notches. It really helped tremendously in that area.
J
I have excellent news
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I have excellent news regarding adderall. My husband and son have been very guarded about their condition in the past have refused to confide in any local help. I finally convinced my husband to make an appointment with a local doctor that is also a family friend (we don't have specialists where we live). My husband and son both met with him this morning. As it turns out, his daughter and wife both have ADHD. He was very knowledgeable, compassionate, and encouraging. They will both try a small dose of Adderall in the morning. I sure hope we can turn down some of the "extremes" in our household :)
Thank you so much for your continued input and encouragement!!
good news hopeful
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Praying for success for all of you
That Is Good News!
Submitted by kellyj on
I know for some (and I don't really know why?) the stimulant medication doesn't work for them. I couldn't believe what a difference it made however. The need to find things that stimulated me almost disappeared it worked so well. I finally had that feeling like...."this must be what it is like to be like everyone else?" When that happened....I could see where I was and where I came from and that was so helpful for me to actually see the difference myself and how I was. It's an eye opener for sure and it did more than just improve my symptoms. That "itch" finally went away. whew!! lol
One thing you might pass along for what it's worth. It takes a while to get it right....ups and downs...and swinging. This is normal. I can't know this for sure....but I'm speculating. Possibly...someone who finds this so unerving at first...might quit before it has time to settle down. I hope it works and they ride that part through. It will even out after a little experimentation....just give it the time it needs to get there. I wish them both good luck with this and I hope it works for them as well as it did for me. It really did do what you are hoping for with me...but I would give it at least 6 months to a year to finally get completely acclimated and the doses dialed in. There will be times when things feel a little funny at first, but like I said....that goes away. Any time you change your chemistry....it's going to feel different for a while at least:)
Wonderful news
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Please let us know how it's going for them...and for you.
All best.
You all are so nice! I wanted
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
You all are so nice! I wanted to give an update on the Adderall.
Husband - He feels absolutely wonderful. He just keeps saying over and over how good he feels. After taking the medication he had a frame of reference for how he felt before. He said it was like four ping pong balls bouncing in his brain at all times and the Adderall stopped the bouncing balls. He couldn't be more pleased. He took 15 mg dose.
16 yo son - he says he doesn't feel any differently. To me he seems very quiet and low energy. He took 10 mg dose.
Adderall
Submitted by kellyj on
It sounds like the dose your son was given was too low. If he doesn't feel like you H (or something) then it's not enough.
Also....your H will probably need to up his after too long. His body will get use it and will need more after that. This is the process I was explaining. I had to go up....and then up....and then up...until I found it was starting to have more adverse affects by going that high. Then I had to come down....and come down....to find the sweet spot. Even then...it flucutated and I went up again....just to go down again. Back and forth....untill you tried it enough when it's enough...but not too much. It can be a fine line at first until you dialed that in.
Too much is not good....but too little is ineffective. Your son should feel it or it's not working. If he's not sure? It's not enough.
Just so you know. 10mg did nothing for me too. That's what they started me on and that was worthless. I ended up at 60mg a day....40mg in the morning.....20mg in the middle of the day. I've been there for 8 years and that hasn't changed since then.
At times...the 40mg morning dose is all I need. On rare occasions....I do 80mg on one day and up my second dose by 20mg as needed. This...you know from how it feels and that's something you find out after you've taken it for a while and learn what works for you. It's not an exact science. You need to modify slightly as needed as you need it. That's how it works:)
This was so confirming to me too. They tell you what it's suppose to do....but the one thing they don't say....is it just makes you feel good. It doesn't say that on the label or in the literature but really....if you feel good....your going to be a whole lot nicer to be around. I'm so glad it seems to be working. I'm living vicariously through your H right now!!! ;)
J
what my son does
Submitted by Delphine on
He's on Vyvanse. What he does is put his daily dose in water (I guess he opens the capsule?) and sip until it's gone. He says this gives him more control over the effects.
Seems smart to me...
Hopeful, excellent
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Excellent post. Seems to be a good portion of families today.