Anger/Confusion/Thinking related to ADHD/Medication?

communication going south

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Thu, 01/10/2008 - 13:52

Here is the first question for you. Do you agree with your wife's assessment that she is in total control of her ADHD symptoms?

Melissa Orlov

Answer on Communication

Submitted by Robert Johnson on Thu, 01/10/2008 - 14:40

Melissa, Thanks for the reply. I don't agree with it. When we first got married she was adament about how independent she was ... how she was going to go out and get a job, run the household, make great food etc. She spent 5 months w/o even looking for a job, never does any housework and spends hours on things that she gets distracted by. If being in "control" is anything like the tips i've read about in other areas of this site ... she is not. I feel very strongly that she struggles w/the Now/Not-Now type situation you talk about and ... everything tends to jump to Not-Now to often. I want to be a team but right now I feel i'm the coach, players and support staff and she's just along for the ride. Thanks Bob

Hold On!

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Fri, 01/11/2008 - 12:25

I got the answer to the question I asked - that you don't agree with your wife's assessment...but go back and look at what you wrote and in a couple of other places it seems as if there is some anger and frustration there.

I am guessing that you are starting to see your wife through a lens of disappointment and hard feelings. She can't tell you everything that she did in a day, and that upsets you. She spends hours on things that she gets distracted by (but that aren't the things that you think she should be doing because you would rather that she be helping out with the chores) and that bothers you. She puts things off and then never gets around to them.

This is the classic marriage that is starting to have problems because of ADHD, but I always like to stress to people that it isn't just the ADHD symptoms, it's also how non-ADHD people respond to the ADHD symptoms.

So, here are some ideas:

back yourself up a bit. You shouldn't have to play the role of coach, players and support staff - that's not conducive to romance or a good relationship. So...don't. Make yourself resist the urge to coach her. You'll hate this for a while because it will make you feel as if you can't say what you want. But think about it this way - how would you feel if someone were telling you what you ought to be doing all the time?
stand up for yourself as her partner, not her coach and choose a few select areas to discuss with her - on equal footing, not as a coach - that are really getting in your way. But before you do, think carefully about what is really, really important to you. If the disorganization around the house is getting in the way, then work on that (some of Tara's tips are helpful, for example). For me, the thing I wanted most was a really great, loving relationship...that's a different conversation than how do we make sure the dishes are done. Make sure she is acting as your partner in these conversations.
Start framing your ADHD-related issues as references to her symptoms, not as critiques of her.
Tell her some great, positive stuff about how you feel about her and start thinking, every day, about how to reinforce the positive so that you break out of the negative patterns that I can guarantee you you are currently in. Encourage her to tell you her positive feelings, too.
Make love, and mean it

This is a start, at least. Marriage, once we get into it, is rarely what we expect it is going to be when we are creating our own perfect fairy tales about it during courtship. Both people, your wife included, have to learn how important it is to share both the fun stuff and the not-at-all fun stuff to the satisfaction of the other.

Don't let the patterns you are in - coach/unwilling student and doer/non-doer - go on any further. ADHD can be a reason someone isn't always on task. It should never be an excuse for staying that way. But don't expect her to change because you harrass/coach her. The only way she'll change is if she wants to...and the only reason she'll want to is because it's fun, fair or loving.

Melissa Orlov

Thank You

Submitted by Robert Johnson on Fri, 01/11/2008 - 12:31

Melissa ... thank you for all of that. I agree there is a large amount of resentment and that is mostly my fault because a) I hate confrontation and b) i'm just not good at expressing it. I have thankfully not gotten into the nagging/telling her whats wrong phase because I just totally ignore it. I'm mostly dissappointed by the promising that were made prior to marriage then then finding out she is not what she told me she was or what she "advertised" as we were dating. This of course does not make her a bad person nor is it grounds for us not being together but ... it has fed my frustration. With your advice and the others help ... I need to do exactally what you have councelled ... come to her in love and find the right way to work with her. I want it to be fun and loving ... however I also agree with you that yes, ADHD may be the cause of her problems and I know that, accept that and love her for that but "staying" that way is the problem and hopefully with time/patience/love we can solve that problem. I have great hope for what I know she can be ... I just don't konw how to start down that path. I'll take your thoughts and do my best to use them. Hopefully we can make this work. Thank you so very much Bob

Sounds just like my Husband

Submitted by Jessica W (not verified) on Mon, 01/21/2008 - 14:11

Sounds just like my Husband and I! When we got home from our Honeymoon, it wasa a SHOCK....the fun was over! He didn't want to TALK to me anymore, he wanted to work all the time, and then when we got home, we had to clean and work at HOME too! (I"m the ADHD-er here tho) We had lived in seperate homes prior to our marriage, so we had a HUGE adjustment after our wedding. The first year was horrible. It seemed like he always was doing seemlingly needless stuff, which made me feel guilty so I shut him out, and eventually didn't talk to him anymore. It was like just being ME was not good enough, and in fact all the things that made me ME annoyed him suddenly. We've worked past that, but it took a LOT of talking and "I" statements (I' feel like ____ when ____ etc) Be careful not to blame her! We've finally got it figured out, and reached a compromise. And we don't have to do all that horrible boring cleaning stuff EVERY night, and I pitch in too! (sometimes...when I notice he is cleaning.....sometimes he has to get my attention! :-) In a NICE way! )

Thank you

Submitted by Robert Johnson on Tue, 01/22/2008 - 15:24

Jessica, Thanks for the thoughts ... thats not something I have thought about before. I'm not 100% anal retentive about tasks but ... I know she is "spontainous" and "fun driven". Her DAd was happy she met me because she has always been a "fun first" person and i'm more planning and task oriented. With what you and Melissa suggested that will give me some new ideas/insights to hopefully stop fighting and start communicating with my wife (which would rock). We will have to try and figure this out ... I really hope she doesn't think she's not good enough ... but if she is like you I can see that possibility. Thank you so much ... Bob

I'm hearing you louder and more clearer

Submitted by Driver (not verified) on Thu, 01/10/2008 - 21:08

Are you sure you're not married to my wife? ;) I know exactly what you're talking about when you describe having a conversation with your wife and if you slip up or what ever, she appears to completely miss the point and will run with it; before you know, she's spat out a million sentences on her chosen direction of the conversation and you're left wondering where you went wrong. My wife was notorious for doing this and what I've found that helps big time is to structure and take control of the conversation. Whenever she takes the conversation and runs with it, reign her back into line and keep the discussion back onto the point at hand. Don't get caught up and let her control the discussion, you have to keep control of it. Why does she take the conversation and run with it? It's because she doesn't have control of her ADD like she wishes she does; she knows it and is VERY defensive about it. That's why she mixes up the conversation. ADD'ers are very good at verbal wordplay, it's a skill that they've learnt over time to cover up their perceived inadequacies. Growing up, your wife would have known that she was different to all the other kids and that she couldn't do things as well as the other kids and over time would have develop strong skills in covering these issues up. Your tactic of avoiding talking to your wife may keep the household quiet, but it the long run it's only going to make matters worse. In a marriage, it's important to keep the lines of communication open, and if you and your wife are not talking, she's going to think the world is coming to an end because her husband hates her, must be cheating on her etc because he's not talking to her. I think you and your wife need to sit down and have a deep and meaningful conversation and really thrash out this issue. Reassure her that you love her and that you accept the way she is, but things the way they are not going to work in the long run and that the BOTH of you (yes, it's a relationship issue, not just a "her ADD" issue) need to work together and resolve it. You need to get the lines of communication open, and both to accept that ADD is here to stay and will not go away. After that, your next step is easy; it's finding ways of working with her ADD, not against it. ADD is not such a big bug-bear in the relationship I have now with my wife. We're able to openly joke about it and laugh when she has one of her patented ADD moments. e.g., the other day she was ducking out to the shops to buy some things for lunch. I asked her to buy my special bread for me (I'm gluten-intolerant, can't eat regular bread). She goes, "OK" and walks out the front door of the house. By the time she got into the car (all of 5m / 30' away from the front door), she'd completely forgotten about my bread.

Maybe I am...

Submitted by Robert Johnson on Fri, 01/11/2008 - 12:15

Well ... I think you hit the nail on the head with your desciption of being "very good at verbal wordplay". When we start talking I feel like i'm just out of my league and no matter how clear my thoughts are ... when they are talked about I'm lost 1 minute into the conversation. I really don't know how to take control of the conversation at this point but ... I'll bet you are right that the quieter I get the more it probably is hurting her and me. I have learned that if I repeat back to her what she says it helps her to see that I actually listened and know what she was trying to say. Again she is still attacking every little word if I get it slightly wrong but ... its a step in the right direction. It is promising to hear that ... you guys are to a point you can talk about it. Do you really think she is so scared that this is her defensive counterattack? I hate to think that this is the final-stand-point but at the same time I know it is. If we can't get over this hump the future is bleak for both of us in regards to happiness and trust in general. Ack this is hard but I really appreciate all of the thoughts. I am very very happy to work with her but the key is "work" and right now we are not there. I need to get over my fear of confrontation and just do it. Oh well ... thats life. Do you still get attacked over every little word? Another big this is the fact that her memory seems to be better then mine. She claims she has been tested and has perfect recall (ie all words that were said). She brings up things from months ago and I sure as heck can't remember what was said and sometimes i'm confident she doesn't either but she is convinced and that makes it impossible to converse. Since you have been working together have things gotten better or ... does she still attack everything little thing and word choice? It seems near un-overcomable if no matter what the jist of the converstaion will always be trumped by a mis-used noun or verb. Thanks again Bob

Arguing over Words Rather than Content

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Mon, 01/21/2008 - 10:11

I am struck by your description (and that of several others) of how your wife takes words and argues with you over semantics, rather than the general content of what you are trying to say. Back when my husband and I were fighting he used to do this to me all the time. It drove me crazy because it always derailed our conversation - which is exactly what he wanted it to do. It seemed as if he wanted to make me mad because if he could do that, then he could blame me for our conversation going south.

A couple things I learned from this: first, just because this is happening to you now doesn't mean that the two of you will always communicate this way. We don't do it at all any more.

Second, it's okay to say "I don't feel that you've understood what I was trying to say because I was trying to get across the concept of X and you are focusing on my use of the word Y. Can we circle back to concept X?" One communication technique is to try to get your partner to reiterate what they think they understand of what you said. "I would love to know that I clearly communicated what I was thinking. Can you tell me what you heard?" Notice that these words point to your communication skills, not her listening skills, because you want her to understand that you aren't attacking her. If she says something that isn't what you meant, you can say "no, that wasn't what I was trying to get across...what I meant was XX" and come at it from a different direction. Remember that how she processes info and how you do are very different, so it can take a while to clarify things, particularly when you are fighting (which tends to make people very un-thoughtful).

Third, you do have both the ability, and the right, to direct your conversations and control the tenor of them. Personal attacks, in either direction, should not be o.k. If she attacks you personally ("I can't believe you're this stupid"; "Why don't you ever understand?"; "You never come through for me.") you can say "that felt like an attack on me as a person, which hurts and isn't a good way to communicate. I would like to come back later and talk with you about this when you've cooled down and won't attack me." She won't like it at first, but setting boundaries for having respectful communication will be a lot better than feeling as if you are used up by the constant fighting.

Finally, try to get out of the mindset of "working" on your relationship all the time. The best healer for all of this is having some fun. Try to do fun things like what you used to do when you were dating (presumably you had fun) so that you can both get some positive interactions going. This will help you lessen the anger that you are both feeling, and help all of your communications.

Melissa Orlov

Thank You

Submitted by Robert Johnson on Tue, 01/22/2008 - 15:26

Melissa, Once again thank you for the time/energy you put into your replies. I can't say I have ever communicated like whats above (and I know for a fact that i'm very very unqualified as a communicator) so I really hope that as we try talking like above .... hopefully we can break down some baracades. The other comments folks have been making have been very very wonderful and helpful and ... I think will help. I hope we can overcome the negative focus ... and find what we liked in each other to begin with so we can "have fun" .... which is always nice. Thank you again so very much Bob

Lets be careful

Submitted by stb616 on Fri, 01/18/2008 - 14:50

Everything you wrote might be from ADHD related issues. Might. She's been taking XR ever since you've been married. When was she diagnosed? "Everything ends in conflict............communication is the key...........stopped talking." Now lets go back to the start. "Been married a little over a year." Hmmm. The first year I was married was a heck of an interesting one. You know I think sayings like "the honeymoons over" may be rooted somewhere. I think the first year or two of a lot of peoples marriages can be filled with problems and drama. Maybe more with an ADD'er but again, I'd be careful we're not looking at the wrong issue or least don't overlook it. This is a huge transition for both of you. I think I responded before to your posts and maybe I missed the 1yr thing. Another try might be to not ignore but lessen how much you focus on ADHD and just worry about you and your new wife and you two as a couple. You're newly weds. Go have fun. Its great you care and have been educating yourself but first things first and don't try to figure out EVERY aspect of something that that if you don't have you'll never really fully understand.

Thanks Again

Submitted by Robert Johnson on Fri, 01/18/2008 - 15:36

I appreciate all of your comments ... I really do. I may have been a bit confusing in my discussions. I never talk to her about ADHD .... I never accuse or even try and do anyting with that. I'm mostly sad because the honeymoon has been over since the day we got home from the honeymoon. And it just keeps getting worse. The first 5 months I went to work, came home, smiled and just hoped she would get motivated and do ... anything. Clean, get a job, make friends, anything. But ... nothing happened ... I did the housework, cooked, etc. I was not sure what to do. I never attacked the ADHD nor do I want to. I'm looking for help from you guys to hopefully understand her better and hopefully ... find a way to get us on a path to friendship again since ... I got in trouble again last night over perceived slights that never happened. ITs so hard and just makes me sad. I'm hopeful that patience, and just listening will help. And I really really appreciate all of your thoughts and suggestions. I'll keep trying. She's really amazing and I hope she cna find a way to tap into that before its to late. My love-tank is running on full empty now (its hard when you come home from a long day and ... you have to compete with the computer, tv, cellphone for any attention.). Thanks Bob

Why we focus on the words

Submitted by griwei on Sun, 06/01/2008 - 14:55

Dear Bob: You may have noticed my post yesterday, in which I ask for tips on suffering fools more gladly (aka limiting outbursts). In it, I mention that I am good at arguing and even like doing it. I'm likely much worse than even the average person with ADHD because I have made a very good living from being good with argument. All of that being said, I am hoping to provide an additional perspective concerning your observation that your wife pounces whenever you choose the wrong word (or at least what she perceives to be the wrong word). I have seen subsequent posts confirming that such behaviour is not uncommon in ADHD spouses, but the ones that concern me are those that imply the ADHD sufferer is focusing on semantics rather than the real meat of the argument, rather intended or otherwise. That may be true, but it is not necessarily so. For the past two years, I have been married to someone with a background in policy social work, but clinic social work was obviously part of her education as well. To me, she is a very emotive thinker, although a counsellor we share for grief work who suggests that I am so far over to the one side of the "rational/judging side of the spectrum between 'thinking and feeling' that to me even someone in the middle of the spectrum (such as my wife), looks like a super-emotive 'feeler' rather than a more rational thinker. (As an aside, the grief work we do with this counsellor is done individually, since it predates our relationship, but the counsellor has full license from us to relay anything that the other has told her). When my wife and I fight, or when we merely have a misunderstanding, or when we're actually just having a debate, she has frequently accused me of focusing too narrowly on her words. With exasperation, she'll say "you know what I mean!" I should mention that from my youngest age, I have always been an ENTP on the Myers-Briggs scale, so I am very intuitive. I do know what she means almost all of the time. I know what most people mean, but what I care about is what they say. I think this is a phenomenon for many ADHD suffers. We focus on the words you actually say. Why do we do this? I cannot speak for everybody, but the reason I do it is relatively simple. I am blunt. I tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, often to my detriment. It takes all of my energy, in fact, to not reveal that which I should not reveal in my professional life. I have to be very, very on my game to make sure I say only the right things. If I had to do that in my personal life, I would go mad. I just don't have that ability. But I know that people - for what ever bizarre or acceptable reason - don't always reveal their true feelings. Worse, because I have ADHD I often miss clear indications of what a person is feeling/thinking with body language when I am 'all ADHD' - especially in a social setting. If I was standing on the side, quietly watching another ADHD person engaged in a conversation, I could point out all of the signals he or she is missing and completely diagnose the situation, but when I am the one engaged in that conversation, I can't see these very same signals (in the sense that I do not recognise them for what they are at the moment). My experience with being very aware that people don't always reveal their true thoughts and feelings, and with being unable to read people at the worst times, leads me to crave intellectual certainty. In this manner, the only thing I have to rely upon, for certain, are the words that you say. If we are engaged in an argument or heated discussion, the value I place on the words that you say skyrockets. That's why my perennial response to my wife when she says "you know what I mean" is: "no, I can never be sure of what you really mean; but I know what you said." The point is obviously that while I am adept at wordplay and can easily manipulate a conversation (if I was actually to put my mind to it, which would be perverse for someone who seeks truth and transparency), as an ADHD sufferer I know I have blind spots. The more important the subject of the conversation to me, the more crucial the words that I choose - and that I unfairly expect my more emotive partner to choose - come to be. I'm not just being difficult, or at least not trying to be difficult. It's just that the words really matter. If the topic didn't matter or - God forbid - if my relationship didn't matter, the words wouldn't matter as much either. In this way I can at least suggest to you that it's actually a good sign that the words matter so much to your spouse, if she's anything like me. You'd be in more trouble if they didn't. The next step is for you two to try to sit down and really analyse the dynamics of your relationship at tense moments of communications such as these. If you can get to the bottom of why you both play the roles that you do during a fight or heated discussion, you should be able to work with a coach or counsellor to develop ways to communicate better (i.e. with less collateral damage to your relationship). And finally, I have a little 'PS' about the first year of marriage. My late wife and I were married almost 13 years. My current wife and I have been married two years. Assuming this is your first time, trust me; the first year of marriage can be the toughest. It requires a lot of work and it requires a lot of good faith. I think that was as true for me when married at 23 as it was when I was married at 38. Best of luck to you both.

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communication going south

Answer on Communication

Hold On!

Thank You

Sounds just like my Husband

Thank you

I'm hearing you louder and more clearer

Maybe I am...

Arguing over Words Rather than Content

Thank You

Lets be careful

Thanks Again

Why we focus on the words