I'm exhausted and at the end of my rope and I guess I just need some support. My husband has not been diagnosed with ADHD, but he shows a lot of the symptoms, along with anxiety and depression. I've asked him to see a doctor about it but he hasn't been willing to go.
We just had a major blow-up and at times like these I fantasize about ending the marriage, although I know he needs me and I feel like I'd be throwing him to the wolves if I left. This latest conflict is that his parents are coming to visit tomorrow, and he's hyper-focusing on getting the house ready for their arrival. This includes wrapping up household projects that he started at least 6 months ago but never finished, despite my repeated requests, and fixing things that he "broke" (like replacing all the smoke detectors that he took down a year ago and then somehow lost). He's like a cyclone of anxious energy and is mad at me that I'm not helping him enough. He says that it always happens this way when people come to visit (me not helping), not realizing that he's doing it to himself. Normally, I feel like I'm the one who does the lion's share of the housework, not to mention managing our money and being the breadwinner and basically holding everything together. On the weekends I'll go around and clean the house while he sits on the couch. He doesn't make things like that a priority in the same way I do, and I've asked him to help me more but he only wants to do it on his own schedule. So I feel like I end up doing everything (or if he does it, it's after having been put off for what I consider to be an unacceptable amount of time) and I silently resent him for it. Now he's got this enormous list of things that he thinks he -- or, I should say, we -- need to get done for this deadline, and he's blaming me for not taking time off work to help him. It seems like a pretty unrealistic expectation to me, but he acts like he feels seriously victimized by my lack of urgency. All I can do is stand there and think, "Really? This is how you treat me after everything I put up with from you?" These things include drug and alcohol dependency, two DUI's, getting sued for an unpaid credit card balance, and anger management problems. It's like he just can't see the big picture.
I just got a call from him in the middle of typing this (I'm at work). He's asking me again to take time off and come home to help him. He says he feels manic and like he wants to "put his head through a wall." He's feeling "paranoid" because a technician from the internet company is supposed to stop by and check our DSL lines, and he's afraid he'll miss him or not be able to answer his questions when he gets there. He says he's feeling so much pressure that he just wants to shut down. Now I'm starting to wonder if there's more going on here than just hyper-focus. His reactions seem pretty extreme. I want to help him but I feel like it's just a vicious cycle that will happen again no matter what I do. He admits he has a problem and I think he needs mental health treatment, but I don't know what to do to get him to actually follow through on seeking it. I feel pretty helpless.
Sounds like he has issues with his parents and habits learned
Submitted by jennalemon on
Like he thinks he (and you now too) has to be perfect for them. I used to rush around making everything look perfect for my mother's visits when she was alive because:
These are not excuses for his craziness about cleaning up. Someone had to tell me what I was doing and let me figure out why I was doing it. Keep to your guns and stay calm and don't take anything personally. Let this be his own endeavor - his cleaning and projects. This is his cross to bear and figure out. It must be maddening that he will go to this effort for them and not for you.
Thanks jennalemon. You are
Submitted by soconfused on
Thanks jennalemon. You are right that he has issues with his parents and wants to impress them, but I think it must be more than just that. They generally get along well, and his parents don't seem like they'd make a fuss or say anything if the house wasn't perfectly clean and organized. It may have to do with some deeper issues related to them, and the fact that he has so much trouble managing his time and prioritizing things in a realistic way. None of this would be a big issue if he didn't procrastinate and wait until the last possible minute to get things done. It's like he needs the stress as a motivator, but then the stress builds up so much that he can't handle it.
Your last line really hit home for me: "...he will go to this effort for them but not for you." I think that's what I've been trying to put my finger on but was unable to put into words. He doesn't understand why I'm mad at him for acting like this, because he can't put it into the context of his past behaviors. It drives me crazy that I have to nag him to get things done on a daily/weekly basis, and he still only does them if/when he feels like it. Then his parents show up and suddenly I'm the bad guy for not dropping everything and changing my schedule to accommodate his obsession with catching up.
So So True
Submitted by kellyj on
Don't get me started.....These stories, old wives tales, superstitions and out and out irrational thinking. It is so delusional!
And to this day we still believe them as if they were fact......I try very hard not to but every now and then one sneaks in from the past. I understand that our parents lived in a much different time but..............waiting an hour before swimming after you eat or you will cramp up and drown? Has anyone ever heard of even one? ever???
These things that get passed along as gospel can really be problematic later in life. I use to call BS on this kind of thing when I was a kid and it didn't go well for me. As you said " it was different in those days"
And I really sympathize with my sisters because for women, in many ways it was worse. They still suffer from these fabrications of reality to this day and even now when I try and convince them that this is the cause for so many issues down the line (my niece is bulimic for example ) they still cannot see the connection for themselves.
I just had to comment because your list of descriptions were so dead on. I'm with ya.
J
I suggest you put a boundry in place when all is calm for this..
Submitted by c ur self on
My wife use to do me the same way...Now when she wants all the kids over for a holiday or wants to invite friends over...I say great... I'm fine with it But, about 5 day's before you are going to set down with me, discuss what needs done, and put a simple plan in place for BOTH of us to do....And if you do not follow through with it...The morning of the gathering, I'm getting up and going fishing or something, and I want return until time to eat...I got so tired of her not doing anything we discussed for 4 day's, then flipping out and trying to get everything done in the 8 hours before it... the fall-out from the emotional state that puts her in is ugly! and something I'm not planning on hanging around to see again...
That seems like a good idea.
Submitted by soconfused on
That seems like a good idea. I'll try that...my problem is that he doesn't really seem to understand why I'm upset. He gets offended when I try to tell him that I think he's out of line. I guess waiting until things are calm, as you suggest, might help. Thanks.
Sister don't get upset, it only makes it worse...Take ACTION....
Submitted by c ur self on
I am going to give you few simple to the point suggestions I would use (helped us in counseling) during your set down...Try your best to not be up set it only takes away from the reality of what's been going on...And gives someone looking for an excuse for their behavior a reason to deflect...Tell him your not his mother! Tell him your not living your life (yes you have one) with HIS piled up expectations! And tell him what he can do with HIS attempts to control and manipulate you! Tell him you love him, but his attempts at placing guilt trips on you for his own irresponsible lifestyle ain't cutting it!....Keep it simple and to the point...write the stuff down if you have to, but if you don't deal with it now, it will only escalate...He has a wife to be loved and cherished, not a slave to be used for his inability to discipline his own lifestyle...add/adhd is never an excuse for this behavior and treatment of others...If this sounds a little strong I meant for it to...You don't have to be a doormat...That's not what marriage is about...Blessings!
Your words seem wise. It is
Submitted by soconfused on
Your words seem wise. It is SO hard not to get upset and offended when he takes out his stress/anger on me, but I think I know on some level that getting angry myself isn't helping. I think that I'm standing up for myself, but it doesn't seem to improve anything. I'll try harder to keep your advice in mind.
The best way to stand up for yourself; is to calmly walk away..
Submitted by c ur self on
I was so burdened down with Anger and bitterness and our counselor told me this simple statement: He said, "you are responsible to your wife...but, you are not responsible for her"...I was trying so hard to fix everything, but statement's like that finally made me realize...I had to step away, deal with the reality of my own anger and bitterness, and when I did, I saw a person who wanted so badly to help this person I love...But it's like butting your head against a brick wall when denial, and the inability to rationally look at your own actions are present in a life...So I thought about what he said. I am responsible, to be faithful, to be a spiritual leader, and to do the things God requires me as a husband...But I never have to take responsibility for her actions, words...etc...Many times I have to just step back and say, hey, this is your deal, so just deal with it like the responsible adult you tell me you are...I don't do this because I don't love her, but, because I do.. There are so many traps here we can fall into...One and I think the most common is not seeing ourselves, blaming our emotional state on our mate's behavior, Hey, their not responsible for our actions and words either. Two being enabler's of adults who want take responsibility for themselves in the name of love...That is not love...
My Point Exactly
Submitted by kellyj on
Trying to convince someone who is so rooted in thinking that (quite possibly is irrational) is usually met with anger and defense in my experience and is futile to keep fighting against it......especially if they are not ready to look at themselves or where they could possibly be wrong. Wrong is not the right way to look at this either. Misguided, uniformed or even naive is more appropriate and people should understand we (all) suffer from this in one form or another and it is not a crime (bad or wrong) This is the definition of denial if I'm not mistaken. This is why undiagnosed or denial of ADHD is met with so much resistance, offense and anger. Nothing will change in someone who isn't ready to do it. It will just stay the same with all the problems that go with it for both sides of this issue. This obviously applies to the things we are talking about that aren't related to ADHD as well.
Not fighting against it but finding work arounds that are a win-win for both sides is the easiest and sometimes the best course of action. (like floating down stream) It's possible to be with someone who is in denial if you first....just simply accept that they are..... and then be considerate to them out of compassion. Compassion is such a generous and giving quality and is universally accepted by everyone. The one who gives it first is the one who will create the change. There is no way that the sufferer of denial will not respond to it and only good things can come from it.......and quite possibly, the change that they need to take the first step in seeing themselves in a response to such a loving and kind gesture.
In the immortal words of Mick Jagger: "You can't always get what you want.....but if you try sometimes, you get what you need."
J
I appreciate this, JJamieson.
Submitted by soconfused on
I appreciate this, JJamieson. I'll come back to what you wrote the next time I'm feeling overwhelmed. It makes perfect sense, I think I just need the reminder. Somehow it's easy to forget. :)
Don't be Fooled
Submitted by kellyj on
if you think for a moment that I don't need to heed the same advise for myself. I should frame my post and hang it the wall next to my front door so every time I walk by it I can read my own words......especially when I am feeling overwhelmed! :)
J
One More Thing to Add....
Submitted by kellyj on
So many of my comments are based out of my own need to gain perspective and objectivity which I've found as a way to step out of myself long enough to come to reason......which I need to do quite often! There have been so many times when I knew what I felt but could not put into words. Being able to do this has helped communicate with my wife immensely!
But taking what I said into practicality is where the real struggle begins with my wife (for example) throwing her two bits in. One of the things that I have read over and over is the frustration (aggravation, infuriation) and anger with someone who is relentless in their own position and the gift that being in denial gives a person to be stubbornly impervious. It can just simply wear you down to the point of utter exasperation!!
I just wanted to qualify my statements about being compassionate by saying that this only changes your approach and the words that come out of your mouth in a way that might make the other person actually listen instead of being defensive.
I've spent most of my life becoming very good at building up defenses.......if you could get paid for being this way, I'd be rich!
From reading this into so many posts....I can hear that being understanding or compassionate might be getting confused with being an enabler or completely passive and submissive in regards to your own rights and boundaries being crossed or violated. I hope to make it clear that this is not what I am trying to say.
I think approaching other people from this mind set actually gives you more credibility and integrity behind what you want and does give your words more power and you with them.....shifting from being negative, coercive and invalidating to being positive and making a legitimate case for yourself and being caring for the other person at the same time.
I think I will frame this on the wall next to my other post.....as another reminder to myself! :)
J
J you nailed it
Submitted by jennalemon on
"....the gift that being in denial gives a person to be stubbornly impervious."
I looked up a thesaurus for impervious because that is EXACTLY what our problem is with dh. He is impervious! Unmoved, impenetrable, resistant, invulnerable, inaccessible, immune, impassive, hermetic, unaffected, unapproachable.
Why be in a relationship and then build structures around yourself to not really be in the relationship?
That Is the Question Jennalemon
Submitted by kellyj on
My ex wife could answer that for you. It's one I already know the answer to as well. She had issues that were also impervious and together our marriage failed because neither one of us could find a common ground to be happy together. I'm trying very hard not to repeat my own history and learn from my past......the good news is that I'm no longer in denial. I took 3 years off from being in any relationships at all to live with myself and see what it was like to be alone and have no one else to blame but myself for anything that I didn't like about my life. It becomes very clear and easy to see where the source for your own unhappiness is coming from when you do this. I learned a great deal about myself and one thing you can no longer afford to do is be in denial.
I suppose you still can if you want to continue to pay the price. I chose not to.
I could easily tell some of the spouses here that they would be happier if they were to leave their marriage and take the path I did but that would be irresponsible and way out of line. No one can make that decision for you.
I'm here with only one goal in mind. To make the best of my marriage and learn from my past. I owe this to my wife and I also owe it to myself. The anger as part of my ADHD is the one area that I have needed answers to and is the number one thing on my list to improve on. it's brought me to this forum because my therapist did not have the answers I needed specific to my ADHD that I feel I need to make changes and do something about it.
But ....I am far from being impervious ( or at least any more) If I had to be with someone who was.....I (me personally) would choose not to be and leave if I could. If I couldn't because of logistical or circumstantial reasons.....I would try to make the best of it and learn to be a happy person even if I was with someone who wasn't.....I wouldn't let anyone else determine my happiness...but this would only be the lesser of two evils. I think it would be better to move on or just be alone.
I originally thought I would stay single and live alone ( for the rest of my life) and found that loneliness was not an issue. I had work, friends and plenty of interests and activities to keep me entertained for a lifetime.
But after 3 years alone (from being married for almost 20 years)....I discovered why people were designed to be with other people. It's not because of loneliness but the need for connection....the kind you can only get in a close relationship with another human being.
For me.....I found it's the only reason to be in a relationship with someone else. If I didn't have that....I would choose to be alone again or find someone that I could have that connection with........ it is that simple (for me).
That's how I answered the question you asked for myself and came to my own conclusions to find out that answer.
I had a professor in college once say that " everyone will come to find that there will be a day that you will have to judge yourself.....and you will have to answer the question of who you are and then decide how well you have done to be the person you thought you were." I always remembered that and it came back to me the day I had to do this for for myself. When I was forced to judge myself......I failed to pass the test.
The next time I am forced to do this....I hope I pass with flying colors. I feel like I have a fighting chance to do this when that time comes now that I'm no longer in denial.
FYI: Denial and ADHD are not exclusive to becoming impervious....there are plenty of other ways to get that distinction.
J
Connection, heart and disclosure
Submitted by jennalemon on
Great response, J. I come to this site to sort out something intangible about myself too. I write out my inner turmoil and it does help to go back and read what I wrote on another day as though it were another person and I know I am being true to myself when I write.
Going off and being on one's own sounds like a step toward self actualization. A Plan B for myself. Who would I be if not for dh? What would I spend my thoughts on if I were alone? I spend the majority of my free thinking time dwelling obsessively about dh and what to do. I have my own denial - I spend my time working, working, working as though I can work my way out of the confusion and anger. But that is just coping - not living.
I have also come to the conclusion as you did that connection is extremely important to happiness and well being. One more reason I am drawn to this site. We live in a rural area and I run a business out of my office in our home. I make a point to see friends and family but it is not enough people-time to permit me to feel connected. I mourn the loss of hope in having that people connection with a loving husband.
I am sorry you are plagued with the ADD difficulties in relationships. I believe I have a little of it compared to a sister of mine. She rolls her eyes and gets frustrated with me. She cites events and words I don't remember from our long ago past - (none of the events seem out of line to me as sisters). So I get the feeling of "not being good enough for another person in the family". I get a heavy accusing feeling of "her agenda" over my own more relaxed intentions. SHE seems to me like a power monger and diva. I guess that is what ADDers think of us spouses who want more out of a relationship and they don't know what more they can do. It is the merry-go-round stances of, "Tell me what to do and I will do it." responding with "If I tell you what to do for me then there is no heart in it coming from you. - You are just appeasing me and I will know it. Where is the heart inside you that you cannot love and demonstrate that inner love with your efforts? Where is your soul so I can see you and know you?" I am just guessing that is what goes on in my sister's mind when she shuns me and tells me she just doesn't like me. Ouch. Anyway, that is what goes through my mind with dh.
Back to you J. I see you are trying so hard to "get it". I can only tell you what I know from this side of ADD and that is this. Here is what I wish my dh would do:
You Are Not Alone jennalemon
Submitted by kellyj on
One of the most difficult parts of self discovery.....is when YOU now know the truth about yourself and can see yourself more clearly (or your own situation including your marriage) and then trying to get everybody else (like your sister or husband to change their thinking to match up with your own) Even harder is trying to set boundaries where there were none before. I found that with some people (like family)....this is sometimes impossible. You can't make other people change their minds. All you can do is change your behavior and hope they will follow......eventually?
I shouldn't' say it's impossible because when you do set new boundaries and hold to them....(that's where speaking with integrity and self confidence come in) people will need to respect them whether they like it or not. This is really where all the conflict and anger come into it at least for me.
Growing up....confrontation with the powers that be only meant one thing.......the end result was with you losing every time. I learned "how not to resolve conflict" unless it became a fight. I had to fight for every inch of ground when it came to boundaries and getting others to respect them. This was something that you eventually learn to shy away from at all costs since it just wasn't worth it most of the time. When I get confronted with this now (and in my past) I only had one method in my arsenal to get my message across and it usually started out with having all your defenses up and ready for what you know is coming......even when it isn't! It's definitely a learned response and a habit that I have been working hard to break and develop new methods to replace the old one ( I say this as singular because that is the truth)
That's where I said in one post that if you have only one tool in the tool box......and you take that away then you are left with nothing.
That's also why this forum has been such a great resource. I can read the posts and the conflicts and have time to think about what I might say in each case and work through my thoughts ahead of time to arrive at a way to express myself in an assertive direct manner and still do it without going down the old path that usually lead to someone getting angry or losing their temper. There are so many land mines and booby traps that people put out that are just waiting for you to step into....once you do, it's better to back off and try again later because they are just inviting you into a fight with you. You have to learn how not to bite and come back to it later. (maybe being smarter than the person you are dealing with?) That may sound arrogant but in some ways it is the truth. It feels like you are being manipulative (at least for me) but being manipulative against someone who is trying to manipulate you is better than fighting? In my experience......the (manipulators) in my life don't really know that they are doing it (without intention) so another way to say this is.....I'm manipulating with awareness and the intention to resolve conflict and set boundaries against someone who is manipulating as a way of getting their needs met (in a self serving manner). I see that people do this because they too......only have one tool in the tool box.
It really takes effort, skill, practice and knowledge to be successful at it.....especially when you are already in a situation that has been in place for years and you live inside of it already. this makes it even harder.
Simply put......breaking down old barriers and putting up new ones is a bitch! it takes a lot a time an effort to do.
Again......it is why I am here in an effort to learn better ways to do this (and comunicate)
FYI: Having ADHD for me has brought me great abilities and life long happiness in many ways and the single area where most difficulties arise is in close relationships where the skills needed to be successful at it become hindered because of it. but.....unlike some other mental health issues or brain disorders if you will......it is one of the few that the person with it can actually do something about. I feel so lucky that this is the case that I was blessed with the one that is like this. It could be a lot worse and I count my lucky stars every day that it isn't.
J
jennalemon
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to say that I am taking a break from this forum because I believe I found the answer to the intangible thing that I was looking for (what brought me here)......that is specifically related to a very specific kind of anger that I could not explain or find any reason for within myself. It was one that I have been trying to explain my entire life and have not been able to until yesterday.
Your post touched me in a way that may have been the final clue that lead me to making this discovery so I wanted to make sure that I shared it with you before I take a leave of absence of this forum .
to explain the path I've had to take to get here would be long and boring so I will save that for another time.
So without going into any more explanation I will simply say that the anger that comes out it me is the anger from the pain of betrayal or the heart. (or in protection from it) And once I saw this I understood why there is no way to reconcile it or simply explain it away. It is that intangible feeling that there is no explanation for but until now.....I was not able to place it or put a name on it. This was all I was attempting to do when I came to this forum and I now feel like I have my answer. This will help me understand it better and recognize it when I feel it starting to over come me. That was the second part of why I was looking for it......a way to stop it before it happens by also understanding that my wife is probably experiencing the same thing when I see her anger towards me but is telling me that it is about something else. (chores, messes, etc....)
For this reason......I might caution anyone (including me) from accusing someone else for lying when it appears that they are also unable to explain why they feel the way they do but attach some other reason to it simply because they can't give any real or rational explanation to a feeling that has none.
I don't need to search any further for my own satisfaction because it is all I need now to change how I feel and to find a way to manage my own anger especially this one which is the one that comes out of me when I lose control.
I just wanted to add how helpful this has been to use this forum as a means to find this answer for myself. I sincerely hope you can find your own answers and wish you the best of luck.
Take care
J
Bon Voyage!
Submitted by jennalemon on
Sorry to see you go. Thanks for the acknowledgement. I look forward to the day when I don't gravitate to this board with my confusion and denials myself.
God bless J :)
Submitted by c ur self on
I've enjoyed your posts...
This is a great real life
Submitted by MFrances on
This is a great real life example of a boundary! thank you so much for your reply. Boundaries are so hard, and examples are so helpful.
My ADD dh goes into a
Submitted by copingSAH on
My ADD dh goes into a cleaning frenzy whenever my family visits. It's not a big deal to me whether the house is clean, although I did have some of my own serious hang ups with my family in the past. I've been working on recognizing triggers and once I figured it out for sanity's sake, it was a huge weight off myself.
The thing is, once my dh starts on cleaning the house, he will overlook the very obvious things that need attention (like the mold in the guest bathroom). Instead he focuses on stuff behind dressers or under the couch that aren't usually noticed. He spent one week doing all this I just bit my tongue while he went thru everything other than the mold problem. Guess what my family noticed and commented on -- the icky mold in the bathroom.
One thing that has helped us --- it does take a very determined soul to get the point through, and you have to find the time where he is most receptive. It *might* help for him to realize he's putting so much pressure on himself to show his parents --- for what? --- that he is a responsible adult now? Is that what they expect from him, a frenzy of projects to show off? He needs to realize he doesn't need to show them anything. He is already an adult and doesn't need to get their stamp of approval on anything. I think it's just a lifetime of poor coping skills due the the ADHD and perhaps crap from his family growing up. If he even opens the door a tiny bit to let that idea in, then it might trigger a moment of clarity for him. The anxiety might be due to the conditioning by his family, the ADHD needs help putting it into some sense of order.
Obviously there are times when it won't work because he's already beyond a certain point. Then it would be a good idea to keep your distance and let him do his thing and reach out another time. I think for us spouses, we need to learn to predict when these behaviors may happen and nip it in the bud well before any triggers start.
Normally I agree, I would
Submitted by soconfused on
Normally I agree, I would just back off and let him have his cleaning frenzy -- in fact, in some ways I look forward to it because I know it means those unfinished projects will finally get done. But this was the first time there was so much pressure directed at me to participate, and so much anger related to the idea that I was somehow slacking off. It seems a bit different in this way compared with previous bouts of hyper-productivity.
My husband is also very focused on things that I think will go unnoticed, like cleaning the tops of the kitchen cupboards. Short of standing on a chair to look, nobody's going to be able to see how dirty they are. I think it ties in with an "all or nothing" mentality he has about cleaning (and other things) -- he either doesn't do anything, or he does it all. There's very little middle ground. He views this as the logical time to do every single thing that could possibly be done, in spite of the fact that it causes him great stress and it's really not necessary.
At any rate, we'll have a very clean house after this weekend! Although we'll see how long that lasts...
I wonder -- does he drink
Submitted by copingSAH on
I wonder -- does he drink lots of caffeine or sugary drinks? I notice my dh was always past breaking point whenever he had lemonade and sports drinks. I know now that he was self-medicating as a way to cope and focus. But with anything, especially diet, it's going to effect the body negatively after a while if there's too much of anything. DH was mixing almost 2 cups of sugar substitute per day into his lemon juice. When he wasn't drinking lemonade, he drank cup sizes of espresso. It drove everything up several notches. He'd come flying in and point a finger at me. It didn't matter if the library was closed, it was my fault!
I really do hear you about the all or nothing mentality... so many times we've gone somewhere to get something, or see something. If it's been sold out, closed or canceled, he will refuse to try something else or use a fall back suggestion, and insist on turning around and going home. His day is ruined. The other night he drove us an hour to get ice cream. They closed just as we were pulling up. He wanted to turn around, refused to look around the area. I insisted and found another place for ice cream within a few minutes. Then he reasoned that if it weren't for him not making it in time for the first store, we wouldn't have discovered the second store. ... oh well it is the truth, but odd for me to hear it like that.
Self-medicating
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
DH was mixing almost 2 cups of sugar substitute per day into his lemon juice.
CopingSAH,
Sugar substitutes are also known as excitotoxins. They are really bad for us ADHDers. I don't use them at all. They ramp me up.
ADHDMomof2
So familiar...
Submitted by KrazyKrysi on