My ADHD husband always has excuses as to why he can't do things. I'm just about at the end of my rope! He has told me to give him lists of things that need to be done around the house but when I do he rarely completes the tasks. Yesterday I emailed him a list while i was at work. He received the list at 10am and said he would be happy to do everything I asked and have it done before I got home. The chores amounted to about 30 minutes of work and yet when I got home at 3pm nothing had really been done. He did unload the dishwasher but never finished putting anything away. He put a few dirty dishes in the emptied dishwasher but there were still dishes left in the sink and food particles on the counter and stove from the night before. He didn't finish the repair he had started days before which had cluttered my dining room with tools and he didn't file the tax extension online (which was on the list but I had also asked him to do it several times in the past week). I have tried to explain nicely that since I work full time and take a part time online business course that he needs to help out around the house. Yet it always falls on me because he says I'm unrealistic in my expectations and I make him do everything my way and in my time. When I got home from work yesterday I dusted and vacuumed the whole house, did some studying online and by 6pm he still hadn't finished cleaning up the kitchen so I could make dinner. After dinner I cleaned up and put away the leftovers but told him he needed to do the rest. I woke up this morning to a text that was written at 1:23am saying his back was hurting (he does have a legit back injury but it never seems to keep him from doing the things he wants to do) and he would clean the kitchen and do the dishes in the morning. Just another excuse! He stays up watching TV till 1-2am every night then he's too tired or his back is hurting too badly to do the dishes, which is supposed to be his job since I do all the cooking. I get up much earlier than him because I work 5 days a week so I have to either clean the kitchen myself or prepare my breakfast and lunch by working around the mess while he sleeps till 10am.
I have told my husband many times that I would be happy to take on all the responsibilities at home if he would just keep a full time job and help with the income. But after over 30 jobs in the past 7 years I have very little hope he will ever stick with anything. So we continue to struggle financially while he looks for and applies for jobs that he always finds an excuse why he can't accept or keep once he's hired. He blames everyone else for his inability to keep a job and if that's not his excuse then it's his back or his other health problems. My family and friends think I'm crazy and they don't even know the half of it because I always protect him by making excuses for him. But I'm sure they see right through it. And they don't see his angry outbursts when he doesn't get his way or when I get so fed up that I have the audacity to speak my mind or tell him he is being unfair.
Reading what I have just typed makes me feel like a fool. Why would I stay in a marriage like this? He contributes nothing. He wants his needs met yet doesn't seem to think he has to do anything to meet mine. I cringe when he touches me because he makes me sick. He's overweight and blames it on his back injury (from 14 years ago) but really if he would just stop sitting in front of the TV and shoveling food in his mouth 6-8 hours a day maybe he wouldn't have a weight problem. The rest of the day I can't really even tell you what he does. A chore that would take me 10 minutes seems to last all day for him. I've tried to be understanding about the ADHD but there comes a time when I have to say if he can't contribute anything why am I still here? I really feel like a fool!
Time, work and reality
Submitted by jennalemon on
I overheard dh tell someone the other night that he "cleaned up the hillside" the other day. The person's response was "Wow!" that was a big job to do in one day! You are ambitious." What dh really did was pick up maybe about 10 pieces of paper that had blown on the hill. To "clean up the hill" would have taken literally an entire week. It has been left unkempt for years. But in his mind, the job is done and the other person thinks he is a really hard worker.
Yep...
Submitted by frustratedwife on
They seem to be good at convincing themselves and others that they are hardworking. It's 11:15am and my husband just rolled out of bed and is cleaning the kitchen. I don't have to work today so I haven't even been in the kitchen yet...I decided it was my turn to be lazy and watch TV.
sounds like my life on repeat
Submitted by chillan on
Thank you so much for sharing your feelings. I felt like I was reading something I could write myself. Sometimes I feel like I must be a horrible person for not wanting this life with an ADHD husband. I'm so tired of the I"ll try harder promises and the lack of consistency. And the laziness! I don't understand the high energy but the hours and hours and hours on the couch. What is that? Sigh. Its nice to know there are others who know what this is like. How does one cope?
So sorry you are going
Submitted by frustratedwife on
So sorry you are going through this! Cope? Some days I cope better than others but I find myself in a deep depression at least a few times a month and usually it's after a long work week. Last Sunday I stayed in bed all day. He told me how sorry he felt that I was feeling bad and wished I would go get some help. He just can't see that he is the reason I'm depressed. When I tell him I'm breaking under the pressure, and frustrated by the complete lack of stability on his part, he always apologizes and promises to try harder. For some reason I keep believing him. It makes me feel like there truly is something wrong with me for continuing to trust that he will change. I feel like I have a child instead of a husband.
I'm new here. Nearly sixty
Submitted by Sprockets on
I'm new here. Nearly sixty years old, married for ten years, with a husband who almost definitely has worsening ADD. The excuses are one of the worst parts of it, because they are unnecessary (people who are competent don't need to make excuses) and most of the time they simply make no sense. Also, I have issues with anyone who sets up expectations and then fails to follow through. Don't promise it in the first place, you know? It always feels deceptive to me, but that's because he's lying to himself.
He won't entertain the possibility that he has ADD or that it even exists, although he's not an ignorant man. That's okay with me, because I don't see much value in a diagnosis per se, and we don't take much in the way of medications. He went through a period of "not hearing" me, so I took him for a hearing test. Turns out there's nothing much wrong with his ears - the problem is deeper in his head. The man can tune out anywhere, any time, and he has the attention span of a goldfish. I'm afraid this is going to affect his work, and I'm disabled so I can't take over.
No sex for years. No affection. I've had to really lower my standards around the house, because I can't do things and I'm often not willing to remind him over and over. I already have to make all the big decisions and then hope he won't sabotage them. I walk on eggs around here most of the time, but of course he claims he's the one who is always watching his step. The other day we were in a crowded store and at the checkout he started to read our credit card number to the cashier out loud! Then when I mentioned it he said that was because I'd told him to not hand the card to a stranger. So even that became my fault, and he was only trying to please me. Go figure.
He's always been a good driver, but recently he's been deliberately running yellow lights. I've had to have the "this is what yellow means" talk twice. (Excuse me while I bang my head against something hard.) WHY is this my life????
If I had a ten year old who behaved the way he does, I'd send the kid to military school. It's like having a demented, argumentative, sulky child who screws things up, blames me for it, and feels very sorry for himself. And I've decided I don't actually care if he ever gets an official diagnosis. Call it ADD or Asperger's or whatever you want, he's a complete jerk. If he'd been like this when I met him I would have done a 180 and never looked back. I sure wish I weren't disabled now, because my options are limited.
A scene from the (I think
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
A scene from the (I think really good) movie Starman starring Jeff Bridges as an alien talking to Karen Allen's character about driving. She chastized him for his driving and he says:
Red light means stop, green light means go, yellow light means go very fast.
hahaha
I go through yellow lights as well but use caution. If I'm too close when it goes yellow, I'm not going to screech to a stop. The AC is also busted in my car so not getting through the yellow means sitting for 2 or 3 minutes in an oven on wheels. (I'm in texas).
Hi Laurie....
Submitted by c ur self on
(For some reason I keep believing him. It makes me feel like there truly is something wrong with me for continuing to trust that he will change. I feel like I have a child instead of a husband.)
This statement is really interesting...First I identify with it perfectly....It is the way I feel and react....As I read it, it tells me this....It's mostly about our being and thinking so differently we will never find much, if any, peaceful common ground....Not any that most people can understand or even call healthy....It's about their comfort zone, and their view of life, and what they are actually capable of....And our comfort zone, view, and what we are capable of, its just miles apart....I think the differences runs so deep...It effects every aspect of the relationship...The way I've realized this is when we do have some moments of calm communication and I'm trying to express my desire for her to be more active in simple mundane things and how we should get more on the same page...She will listen to me, and she will have a lost look in her eyes....She absolutely has little to no concept of what I'm talking about, as for as it being a thought process that is always there....Her life (mind) is so full of distractions and so full of disorganized thoughts....Here living of life could never be what mine is....So, I've really found a lot of peace just accepting this...It doesn't mean I wouldn't love for things to be different, it just means I realize there isn't the capability for it to happen....(I'm not saying I'm right about it all either)
It has allowed me to think more clearly about what this marriage will probably never offer us, it's freed me to live and be me. (If that makes sense)....I use to be terrible about wanting to share in things, just be close...But, we were miles apart on that...She will absolutely want, and want, and want....She will dominate the relationship and my life, if I allow it....So now I just go my own way and do my own things....Not bad things or cheating etc...I'm just living...Close friends, activities...I clean without a chip on my shoulder, just like she doesn't even exist, because if the capability isn't there, then basically she isn't there, in that capacity anyway....It has helped me to squash unrealistic expectations that weren't bothering her....But, they we're doing a number on me....I know it's much more difficult for you ladies, especially those of you with adolescent children....But, it is possible to disengage if you have enough courage and are as sick as I was of not having much of a life...I had developed anger and bitterness that had to die...I was miserable....
One other thing, the more she see's me at peace and just living with nothing to say to her about her lifestyle, and the more I walk away from her attempts to control, the more concern she seems to have about her own actions....
Sorry for the rambling....:)
C
C, I am always facinated by
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
C, I am always facinated by your posts. I am wondering, you said that the less you concern yourself with her lifestyle and essentially dont allow her control, she becomes more concerned about her own behavior. Do you think that eventually she will start being a "wife" to you versus close friend etc as you have described before? Your dedication is really incredible - OOOH how my marriage would have turned out so differently had my husband had ANY shred of your loyalty and dedication. God knows, like you - I have stood fast against the storm, and he has never found it worth it - not even once.
How would you say things have gotten over the past year for you guys? Is there a boundry that you have where you would say 'I have done enough, time for me to fully move on'? What do you envision as your future with this woman?
I reached my boundry just about two months ago with my H. And its not for lack of love on my part, let me tell you. I suspect other reasons at this point for the end of my marriage, and honestly I am just looking forward to my own life, I have so many things ready to just begin for me. I have found myself finally feeling better about things, and finally my dreams have stopped being about him constantly lying and betraying me (almost every single night for 7 years I have had a dream where his presence has been a negative). For the first time in ages my body is starting to feel BETTER instead of worse because I am putting my focus on my health, my own well being. I am assuming you do as well because you always seem so at peace and serene :-). Honestly, this is the first time I feel actually good about who I am after so long. And while I am still very sad, and extremely, RAGING angry, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Hi Stacey...
Submitted by c ur self on
(Do you think that eventually she will start being a "wife" to you versus close friend etc as you have described before?)
I think for the most part she is doing all she is capable of doing. I think her reality which is living in a mind of clinical level ADHD, being self absorbed most of the time because of what the demands of life cost her, will, and has always limited her to a chaotic survival in most instances...I'm only now learning to accept it....
When a person suffers so severely to function in "normal ways" that many of us take for granted, then to place expectations on them to do or be different is unrealistic....Denial is usually the results of this type mind, because all human's want to feel good about ourselves....So you have this huge emotional clash (mental train wreck) going on inside of both partners....We both get caught up in our own Normal's and start projecting them onto each other as expectations of what Normal life in a marriage should look like....When the reality of it is we will never be on the same page as for as normal is concerned...Not unless change happens in us both...
(How would you say things have gotten over the past year for you guys? Is there a boundry that you have where you would say 'I have done enough, time for me to fully move on'? What do you envision as your future with this woman?)
How has things gotten? Well, I think my attempt at seeking acceptance has really helped me to move into a much better emotional state, with more clarity of what the reality of living with my wife is going to be...In her case I would say she has quietly ( if not reluctantly) started looking at herself, and her action to some degree....She still gets defensive and seems to possess a chip (victim) about performing responsible actions...But, the fact she is attempting to recognize dysfunctional behaviors is good...It's a definite improvement over blame and denial...
example: I've made a point to calmly point out her desire to control and manipulate in area's where we try to share in activities. So a couple of weeks ago we were going out to eat w/ son, daughter and son in law....She wanted to do something different from the whole group. But, she threw out an off handed remark about how she was going to go along and not try to control things...LOL...So at least it's on her mind:)
Another time recently she was making some suggestions and then sarcastically said something about she would just hush, because she doesn't want to control things....I calmly told her suggestions are a good thing, the way you know you have manipulation and control issues is how you react when others don't say yes to your suggestions :)...She didn't say anything....
I don't think about moving on these days, (I have in the past) I think about self-awareness, and acceptance of reality....I think boundaries in marriage are vital when it comes to all our different convictions about responsibilities in life...I know late life marriage, along w/ ADHD and personality difference's make things difficult if we don't accept and learn how to live together....
I can't say what would make me end this marriage; I only believe in two biblical reason's adultery and abandonment by an unbelieving spouse....I think if I can be a stable emotional leader in our home; she will follow; even if it is painful and she is screaming and kicking...She is a lot like a spoiled child anyway, but, aren't we all at times!....Acceptance of reality!
Blessings Stacey
C
One day at a time is how I
Submitted by Sprockets on
One day at a time is how I cope. At one point I threw things. That wasn't productive. When the person who is supposed to care most about me doesn't even bother to listen to me, much less remember what he said he'd do, it hurts more deeply than I think I can bear. And yet when I mention it and try to have a discussion about it he makes it hurt even worse with his craziness. Sure, treat me in utterly unacceptable ways and then make it my fault. I guess some of us medicate ourselves, or let doctors medicate us. I just ride it out however I can. Wish I had a better answer, but of course if I did I wouldn't be here.
reality
Submitted by lynninny on
This makes me feel better today. Still dealing with extricating myself financially and physically (packing up a house) from my ex with ADHD. Honestly, he is a good person at heart. He means well. But wow, the disconnect from reality. He really is good at convincing others that he works so hard. And there were periods where he would do things feverishly, but in general, he would just burn daylight. Weeks would go by where he just seemed like he couldn't move. I have been asking him for WEEKS to help pull together some info and receipts we need for taxes (that would benefit him, not me, by the way--this is the last time we are filing jointly, thank goodness). I am filing everything, taking care of everything so it gets done. April 15th is TOMORROW!!! He always has reasons..."Today I had to..." and the thing he is talking about is something that would take me 10 minutes (call and check on whatever, or run over to Home Depot and get whatever....and that takes the WHOLE DAY). I think he really believes he works all of the time, but it takes him hours or days to gear himself up to doing just one simple thing. Or there is always some reason. He has a cold. He has insomnia. He couldn't find something. And again, it doesn't affect me that much any more, but I think by this time, if I were at the point that I could not function or get anything done and my life were physically in shambles, and my wife had left me and taken our kids to live in an apartment, and my house were falling apart, and I couldn't work, I would seek some kind of psychiatric help or treatment.
Thanks for listening. I've got nothing but love for all of you out there who deal with this on a regular basis. I am sure I will be finishing up our taxes at midnight tomorrow.
And by the way, when I had the flu, or had a Cesarean, or surgery, or had just lost my father, or eighteen things due at work while we had small children, I sucked it up and got it done. I am allowing myself to feel a bit resentful today that my children's father can just sit there and let it all crash down around him and won't seek help. Not doing anything is a choice.
Yes it is a choice
Submitted by frustratedwife on
Yes it is a choice. My husband has said he is willing to get on some medication but still hasn't made an appointment to see a doctor. I have thought about counseling too but we are so broke and have very poor insurance. I'm self employed and barely make enough for us to survive. Seems like every time I get a little ahead we have a major car repair or an appliance bites the dust and there goes the extra money. He says how tired he is of being broke and never having any spending money but he isn't motivated to change it. I don't give him any money so he doesn't leave the house. I make sure he has gas in the car if he has a job interview but that's it. But really, why should he leave the house? He has it made here!
He had a job interview yesterday and took my car. He got home and was excited and felt he would be offered the job. We haven't heard anything yet but honestly why should I believe this will be any different than any of the others? If he gets the job he will work for awhile then make an excuse as to why he can't do the job...health issues, unfair work environment, being treated rudely, etc. Or he will say or do something to get himself fired. It's really hard to have hope and I know that's awful but it's reality.
Irresponsible behavior?...I
Submitted by c ur self on
Irresponsible behavior?...I found out in my life that the only way to deal with it is: "to live my life like she does not exist"...After six years of dealing with it, I have come to the conclusion the life style of a chronic add effected mind plays out in most area's of life as that of an 8 year old...I so wanted to not except or believe this...so much that I got angry, spent 10 months in counseling, and 11 months separated...But, now that I handle all aspects of my life under control, (like she doesn't exist) being responsible, I have been able to love her and work on making my wife the object of my affections. I was so bound up looking for responsible adult behaviors where there weren't any, my soul had gotten sick...Now I am learning to not place expectations on the way she lives her life...and I am the one experiencing healing...
That's awesome!
Submitted by frustratedwife on
That's awesome c ur self! I can see where that is a healthier and happier way of life but I don't know how to handle the lack of financial support. He does exist and I'm supporting him. I'm in my late 40's and self employed. My business does OK but not enough to support two people and still be able to save for the future. I worry daily that I will never be able to retire. He has spent my savings and doesn't have anything to contribute. It's hard to forgive that and just love him for who he is. I know money isn't everything but I was raised so differently...to work hard and prepare for the future. I see the rest of my family doing so well and it's hard to continue to barely survive year after year.
I am in the same boat as you
Submitted by Mapper (not verified) on
I am in the same boat as you Laurie! I have always been a saver. I had so much money when I met my husband, but he slowly drained that from me. He always wanted big toys like motorcycles and ungodly amounts of money spent on motorcycle parts and race fees and I always give it to him. Now he skips out on work all the time and seems just fine that I pay all the bills and the mortgage. I am even paying off a brand new motorcycle loan for $350/month because he so badly wanted a new bike for $24,000 2 years ago but couldn't get a loan with his credit. He swore up and down that even though the loan is in my name that I would NEVER have to pay anything on it. In 2 years I'd say maybe he has paid 3 months worth and I have paid 22 months worth of the loan! I can't just quit paying it either or else it will affect my credit.
Anytime I bring up money issues it's always "Oh things are going to get better. I max out in pay in May and we'll be good as gold then". No we won't. More money just means you'll spend it faster or take even more days off of work because then you'll be making as much in 1 day as you are making in 2 days now!
I never saw this post!
Submitted by frustratedwife on
I never saw this post or I would have answered it right away! I had to double check and make sure I didn't write it myself because the whole motorcycle story is exactly the same as mine. My husband couldn't qualify for the loan for his $24,000 Harley so I co-signed and guess who ended up making most of the payments? I couldn't stop paying without it affecting my credit so I had to add the $300+ payment to the list of other bills I had to pay every month. I finally made him sell the bike because he wasn't even using it and I was still paying on the loan as well as paying the insurance.
It makes me feel better that I'm not the only one dealing with this but I don't wish this life on anyone. My heart goes out to all of you who are struggling!
You do not have to be bitter or mad to do the right things....
Submitted by c ur self on
Would you let an 8 year old have access to your hard earned $? My wife and I do not share our money (she has had the same job 27 years)...I pay the bills....she has shelter, food, and I love her. But, I can't afford to be an enabler for unwise living, that's a relationship killer...I understand your predicament, but do not take responsibility for your husband, God did not create you to do that...Just the opposite...If you like many of us have started that trend...pull back, love him, but do not buy into his unwillingness to take on the responsibilities he has committed to and is accountable for. Do not take the guilt trips, love is not carrying and adult that refuses to be responsible. Blessings!
You are fortunate that you can afford to live like that
Submitted by Sueann on
I lived without my husband contributing financially for nearly a year. I likened him to a household pet. He provided companionship but contributed nothing. He made no money, did not apply for jobs, and did no housework. I am handicapped, and he is not. So while he sat and watched NCIS reruns (on cable I paid for) I supported us and he did no housework either. At one point, I paid someone $200 just to clean my kitchen (he actually did do the cooking; he likes to cook.) while he sat and watched TV because the mess he made was "too overwhelming" for him to clean.
When I lost my job and couldn't support him any more, I had to move in with my daughter, just so I could eat. I envy your ability to support your wife without her contributing anything. All ADDers should marry someone like you. Unfortunately, my husband didn't, so now he's my ex-husband.
Hope you are doing well!
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm sorry it came to that, every marriage has it's unique circumstance's, because we all have different convictions, and different levels of commitment to how we face our responsibilities...I will say this one thing...God's word say's a man who want work, shouldn't eat...I hope things are working out for you...Blessing Sueann...PS....the part about all Adders marring someone like me...please don't wish that:)
Why would I stay in a marriage like this? He contributes nothin
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
You have answered your own question.
c ur self is in a different situation. His first long marriage sadly ended in the passing of his first wife. His second marriage, in his 50s, is to an ADHD woman who at least works full time so at least is supporting herself. he and his wife do not share money...they keep it separate.
You know what you need to do. What scares you about doing it?
Your H may make promises once he hears that you want to end the marriage, but only give him more time IF he moves out while he "finds himself" and proves worthy of another chance. If he can move out, earn a steady income for 6+ months, then maybe let him move back. I wouldn't trust any promises that allow him to live in your home. They would just be empty promises that he may sound true, but once the drama ends, he'll flake.
c ur self, that sounds
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
c ur self, that sounds horrible honestly. Why live like your wife doesn't exist? That seems to just deny you a full life, and it doesn't seem fair to her, either. Just get out if you actually need to pretend she's not there. I understand the part about finances etc. and taking control of that, but ultimately a marriage is a partnership. We are not adopting a child, we're creating a partnership. Each of you should be able to rely on the other and it should not be so one sided. You can give her affection and heal which is good, but I think (YMMV) your affection is wasted on her and better spent on someone who can contribute to a marriage.
Why do i live my life like my wife doesn't exist?
Submitted by c ur self on
Why do I live my life like my wife doesn't exist? Because I can't depend on her. She can't even depend on herself. So, if we were ever going to be able to focus on the simplicity of loving each other and having a life long loving relationship of peace, I had to recognize add/adhd as the third person in every part of our lives. And do my best w/God's help to starve him to death. When God started letting me see the bitterness that had gripped my heart in the beginning, I finally, was able to see (by Grace) she would love to be healed of Add as much as I would love for her to. So I have had to separate add behaviors, from the person I love...I serve her out love and commitment now...And we have boundaries that are not negotiable, we are committed to each other. We had to get off of the roller coaster of act/react...So, that's why...It's only from a responsibility perspective, and to guard my emotions, so my heart doesn't get hard again. From a world view I'm sure many people would not want my marriage...But, that's OK she is my wife, and I am her husband.
I think what he means is....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
c ur self means that he isn't enabling her bad behaviors by sharing finances and other aspects. He knows that if he did, his wife would think she's paying her share, but she would not be. If they shared money, she'd spend all of hers and a good bit of his.
He doesn't mean that he treats her like she's invisible or like she's not living in their home. He doesn't give her the silent treatment. They do have a relationship.
I think he should use a better phrase that reflects the image of what is really going on. He has to the best of his ability, protected himself from the negative aspects of her ADHD. He's not ignoring her.
I Also Get That Too...
Submitted by kellyj on
That this is the way he has to see things himself to do what he does....not in the literal way as he is saying it. I've wanted to say to you C...that there is a difference between putting walls up and making yourself more immune. Stopping someone from spending all of your money is different in that regard. I had to do this and that is more like building a barbed wire fence around the finances but you don't want to do that in all other respects. I think it is too easy to apply the same solution to everything after a while. This is a really slippery slope.
J
We're all big boys and girls....Be Happy!
Submitted by c ur self on
Try this anology; If you have a sweet 85 year old Grand Mother who you love and who loves you....Who's body is going down, and who's mind comes and goes...Would you hand her your 3 month old infant to carry two hundred yards across a concrete parking lot, just because in her mind she wants to carry the child???
That's all I saying...Am I going to place expectations on her that will only result in pain for me? Not anymore:)
Okay....I Get It C ;) LOL
Submitted by kellyj on
Obviously....I'm still sorting this all out too......and I'm the one who's got it! lol What was the line in the movie (documentary) "Living With ADHD"?
"Show me a child with ADHD and I'll show you ONE child with ADHD." I think that applies to adults too. No wonder it was so confusing to me when I first came here and started reading? I'm soooooo confused?????
Which is even more reason not to make generalizations. C......I do understand really. As I read your last description...I was brought straight back to my mother who had Alzheimer disease (a long slow progression over 15 years until the end.
I use to think they were calling it "Old Timers" disease when I was a kid. Seriously! ha ha I had an intense fear of getting old back then......just kidding:) lol
But seriously now with all due compassion for your situation. I spent a lot of time observing my mother as her mind slowly deteriorated and I paid special attention to the stages and what happened with her. When it was just the two of together....I use to give her test questions to see how she would answer them since my sisters were in severe denial almost the entire time. "I think she knows us....I'm sure of it." They wanted her to know them because they couldn't bear the thought that she was mentally gone. Any thought to the contrary they could not accept. In reality....my mother would have responded to the garbage man the same way she did with us and I knew at one point in time that she had completely checked out.
Before that though....I use to sit and talk to her and ask her questions. What appeared like gibberish I noticed after a while was not gibberish at all. She was literally losing her long term memory and was going backwards in time a decade or so at at time in stages. She would flip back and forth a little but I caught on to where she was by asking her question related to different time periods. It was fascinating on that level. When she reached the age around and before I was born...she thought I was my father since....I hadn't been born yet. My sisters were still wanting her to be here and now but they missed the boat. I went along with my mother and pretended to be who ever she thought I was and was actually having real conversations with and discovered a bunch of things about my mom going back in time. When she got to where she was in her early 20's or teenager is where things started really getting interesting. She thought I was people I had never heard of before and had to go back and ask relatives about who these people might be? I learned a lot about how memories get distorted and saw it happening in real time.
Again....it was fascinating to see this happen and pay attention to it. It was my way of still connecting with the person in front of me instead of insisting that she was still the person she was. Not so much. My sisters missed the boat and I just gave up trying to convince them of anything else. That's denial for you.
Anyway....your description was a good one in describing a certain competency level that I saw in my mother at times early on.....and no.....just because she wanted a knife to cut something didn't mean I gave it too her. lol
"No.....I take care of that for you....where do you want it cut?" As in your pain description.....my mother would have likely cut me as well as herself since she believed the people on TV were actually in the room with her and depending on what show she was watching.....you might get stabbed!! lol She had a tendency to get pretty worked up about the characters on TV.
If it was a war drama.....it was time to change the channel lol
Your description was a good one....it put things into context very well C. I do feel for you....I know how hard that was for me and my mother at times.
J
You were right...Hardening of the Arteries or Old timers disease
Submitted by c ur self on
That's awesome J, your definitely a caring man, and generally a very good student of people and how their minds work....The pain in my anology is my own emotional suffering for not being able to live wisely, and peacfully in an understanding manner w/ my wife...Who is the weaker vessel....If she is suffering because of my expectations, then I'm putting pressure on us both...Her to perform an act where there is no desire or capability to do so....And on me to accept the reality of our relationship...
I totally get that!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
Try this anology; If you have a sweet 85 year old Grand Mother who you love and who loves you....Who's body is going down, and who's mind comes and goes...Would you hand her your 3 month old infant to carry two hundred yards across a concrete parking lot, just because in her mind she wants to carry the child???
That's all I saying...Am I going to place expectations on her that will only result in pain for me? Not anymore:)
>>>
Right! No one would have a fragile, unstable elderly person carry a baby across a hard floor.
I also don't ask my H to do things that I know put us at risk. And when his lack of self-awareness gets him thinking that HE CAN do things that will very likely end in disaster, I carefully divert him unless the "disaster" has a relatively painless solution and he'll have to live with the fact that his bravado fell flat.
Right!
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm sorry I'm so unable to explain things in a way that they can be realistically realized....but OWW, you did good:)
How?
Submitted by Jamk4ever on
How do you get to the point where u don't suffer? I need my husband, a husband, as a helpmate. I have a young family, run a business, go to school, pay the bills, take care of the house, inside and out. And follow up on every cyclical crisis he creates. If I take every opportunity for possible damage to me or my children away from him, he won't be doing anything that makes a man. I live in constant fear because of his inabilities but, I don't know how to live another way without taking control of absolutely everything and expecting nothing from him. HELP!!!! How do I not resent him because of all the suffering and exhaustion he creates in our marriage!?
Hi Jamk4ever
Submitted by c ur self on
I don't think we ever get to the point where we completely quit suffering or completely not resent them. But for our own emotional, Mental, and Physical well being we have to see them in a factual way. A way where you set back and look into your heart and start calmly telling yourself....,My spouse has these priorities in their living of life, this is their day to day reality!...When you are able to be the fly on the wall and accept him (not agree, agree has nothing to do with this at this point, this is for you) as who he is vs who you want, need, and think he should be; at that moment you will immediately get some better. You will leave the world of illusion (I've got to change him!! I've got to force him to be different!!) and you will enter the world of reality. At this point you can make decisions concerning your life. Should I make it smaller? Should I try to acquire some help? Should I ask him to go to counseling? Should I seek counseling for myself? What ever will make it workable and is in the best interest of your mental and physical health and that of your children.
This is 1/2 of the reason I retired at age 56, when I had a great job that I had had for 37+ years. I could not continue to do it all....She not only doesn't do much of anything, but, creates lots of extra work for me....This was my reality and I'm dealing with it everyday. She doesn't like some of my decisions, but it is the nature of someone who seeks co-dependency and a life of frivolity to be negative about anything that they don't see as a direct benefit to their good times. "People who can't control themselves; will always directly or indirectly seek to control others"
This is the golden rule for me when I'm seeking to understand myself or others....Priority List....1) Life in Christ 2) Spouse 3) Children 4) Job...meaning public, and all the duties tied to the house and yards...5) everything else as time and finances allows.....When these get flip-flopped or they don't exist in a life....Suffering immediately ensues for all the parties in the family, and it will flow over on to others.
The bottom line with my wife is this...She has no discipline in managing her priorities, and doesn't feel the need to do so....That is her reality...So I have to ask myself am I going to stay all unstable and emotionally wrung out because she want, or isn't capable of managing her life?? It's a fact it effects me, but, am I going to allow myself to live and die emotionally because of another's actions?....NOPE
Blessings Jam4ever....I will pray for you....
edit...Never feel guilty about being indifferent, if the alternative is engaging denial and foolish chaos:)
Thank you
Submitted by Jamk4ever on
c ur self,
you have obviously sought out the best possible way to traverse an ADHD marriage. I'm not leaving so I will follow your counsel, it truly resonates with me. If you have any good advice on how to recreate intimacy and respect when you feel neglect, anger and resentment, I would love to hear it. You truly are a blessing. I've read almost all of your posts and I trust your wisdom. I have no respect for this man I live with and I'm ashamed to say I may even hate him at this point. I feel a bit hopeless about how to change my emotions toward him and his choices. I will start trying to be a "fly on the wall" and take it from there.
I second that emotion! I
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
I second that emotion! I really enjoy your posts as well, c ur self, since it helps me to be a better person, more compassionate, while also knowing that my feelings are valid.
Jamk4ever & NGLM....
Submitted by c ur self on
Thank you for your kind words...I can only share what is going on within my heart and relationship, and the things I've been able to learn about living in a peaceful manner with my wife....Jam4ever before I give you any advise concerning moving past the negative feeling you are experiencing; let me just remind you of something you know, but, I feel is the first place to start....
It is really vital to recognize what is Adhd and what are just unhealthy character traits...Because if a person is making conscious calm decisions to do bad things. That really isn't adhd...There are many, many people who live with adhd, and live responsibly.
When I was so full of anger, resentment and bitterness....This is why " I felt she had robbed me of the life I wanted and felt I deserved"...I wanted closeness, I wanted to get old with a wife who put me first in this life...Whom I could trust to be there for me...I had expectations that I would not budge on....And the more I dealt with the effects of her life, the worse I got, and the more negative emotions consumed me....
Now I realize I'm not responsible for her....But, i am responsible to her and for myself....So, start like you said, trying to continue to learn without engaging him negatively...Accept his reality (acceptance isn't agreement) no matter how foreign it is from your own....This in the first step in helping yourself move past your negative emotions...Do not be afraid of counseling, boundaries, and other opportunities that are positive....It took me about 6 or 7 months at least to get clarity, and the ability to understand my life with her would never be what I would choose, but, I did choose her, and I know God will bless us, If I will look into my won heart, and deal with my own stuff....And focus on the call on life to be a loving husband, and not base my efforts on what she does or doesn't do....
Also, if haven't already read Mellissa's post dated 9/5/14....She explain's the dynamic of how non-adhders usually react w/ an adhd partner....It 's good stuff....
Blessings
C
Pursuit-Retreat Patterns Will Destroy Your Marriage
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Fri, 09/05/2014 - 16:48
Well, what are some of the things that lead to disaster?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
What are some of the possible things he does that leads to disaster?
I would, at least, take away the things that hurt the family the most.
When your H does something that does lead to disaster, does he feel bad or does he just blame others?
Disasters
Submitted by Jamk4ever on
Well, he feels bad one moment and then not the next? It's really strange. He keeps making the same mistakes, big and little. He doesn't ever seem to learn a lesson. He does all sorts of things from dabble here and there but never finish anything. Put unleaded in his desel truck. Not apply for financial aid for school until two weeks before school starts. Forget to feed the children. But the strange thing is- he tests in the genius levels!!!??? But he's 37 and still doesn't have a career. He's kind and a good man, I'm his oxygen. But I'm so tired of the every day exhaustion and the cyclical mistakes that cause me so much stress. I've asked him to use his tablet to create better habits. To set alarms, to make it an absolute essential in his life. I've been asking him that for 8 years and he still argues with me about the importance of it. Or he will say it won't work for him. I don't know?? He was abused as a child and he/we have been to a lot of counseling but not a lot has changed. I'm still in charge of everything and I don't feel safe leaving my future to him. That's why I decided to go back to school. He is currently in school and passing by the skin of his teeth.
It seems like the word
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
Post deleted by M. Orlov.
Whoa...NOT cool!
Submitted by doublej on
This is is such a cruel and ignorant post...I don't even know how to begin to address it.
I hope the Administrator deletes it.
There's a Difference Between Genius and Emotinal Intelligence
Submitted by kellyj on
Daniel Goleman wrote a good book on this subject (he seems to be an authority on the topic). In it....he describes the things you are so frustrated about. IQ tests....test for a certain type of intelligence and are limited in scope when you are trying to decide just how smart someone is. In academics it is a useful guide in using your head for logic and reasoning ability to be applied in that way. EI or emotional intelligence is a more integrated way to look at it since it combines all the functions of the brain and takes those in to consideration too. Bottom line? Wisdom would be a better way to say this and from your description of your nephew....the way he behaves is not very wise. It also doesn't sound very wise of parents wanting there kids to be autistic so they can brag about their kids scoring high on and IQ test either if you ask me. Just the opposite IMOH.
On the spectrum..... including ADHD.....these behaviors don't have anything to do with having high IQ.....the challenges are directly related to EF (executive functioning ) which does not appear to have much to do with IQ testing and the scores that people get who take them.
It's the IQ scores and these levels that are defined by that kind of test that are the problem since people do not understand exactly what it is testing for? A person can have incredibly high EI and still not score that high on an IQ test. A person with really good or high EI is going to be a much more well rounded and intelligent person in the real world outside of just applied academics, science or musical ability. A person like this might appear much smarter in an over all sense than someone who scores high in IQ alone.
Genius is just a word that describes a very specific thing (IQ test level) but most people don't really understand what that actually means. A person can be a genius and not very wise both at the same time. It's just an indicator for applied aptitude....it doesn't say anything about how someone is likely to behave.
J
Nice explanation J...:
Submitted by c ur self on
Just identifying w/ Lyra's comment about herself...It does work both ways...My oldest daughter, was a top student in advanced classes...but when she is tested under pressure she gets anxious and fearful...She still scored well, but her scores we're never up to par when you compare them to her GPA ....She's 36 now and has moved past it for the most part...She can still overreact at times under stressful situations....Got that from her mother...Ha ha.....
I've got a family member 29, fixing to get married w/ no job...
Submitted by c ur self on
I run into so many good men and women who are smart, educated and strong...But, somewhere a long the path of growing up...They become invalids when it comes to being responsible, many live in denial as to feel good about themselves which makes them emotional cripples also. They can make it in life as long as there is someone to bale them out, someone to carry them....Someone to be their oxygen....The sad part about that is we are not created to carry another adult....we eventually breakdown, physically, and emotionally....
c ur self, asking about the loneliness
Submitted by dedelight4 on
c ur self, I think it's admirable how you've learned (with the help of God) to co-exist with your wife in a peaceful way and still feel pretty okay with yourself. Do you think this is tied to having separate finances somewhat? I am now totally disabled (hate it, because I loved what I did as a musician) and have 4 ruptured discs in my spine (I just got new MRI's done) and live in such horrible pain every day. I've become more and more housebound due to an inability to normally function.
I do wish I had money so that I didn't have to depend upon my ADHD husband. He is doing much better now as a husband (per se), but he is STILL SO FULL OF ADHD it is crazy making. and I hate having to depend on him financially. He tries to do more around the house, but again, when he does something, he makes MORE OF A MESS trying to "clean up" than the mess started OUT TO BE. Then I have to clean it ALL up, and it's hard to do that repeatedly, with no thanks no realization on his part that I have to do SO MUCH MORE just to tolerate living with him.
I'm tired c ur self. I need a break. I know this is a pretty vague post, but today is an overwhelming day. I tried to tell my husband that I need someone to talk to, because I get so lonely, and like most ADHD'ers, trying to talk about anything "lengthy" is too much, They disengage and can't give what their spouse might need at the time. (mostly a listening ear, some hugs and attention, and an "I love you", or an (I'm sorry). I've daydreamed so many times, that if I had my own money, I could support myself instead of having to depend on him, and maybe that would be easier. But, that's just not realistic. He's been telling me we have to cut back on more things because he "just doesn't make enough". He makes more now than at any other time in our marriage, but we do LESS than we've ever done. He's cut out most of our satellite channels, and now wants to cut out the television all together, except for ROKU. Cut back on all electricity uses, except HE'S THE WORST when it comes to leaving lights one, (I"m the one who has to run behind him shutting everything off) I don't go shopping any more, I don't buy ANYTHING any more, heck I can't even drive any more (due to the pain). So, how much more am I supposed to cut out of my life, so that he can pay bills. I have almost no clothes any more that 'look decent", which also makes me feel worse. But, all he's concerned about is how much we CUT BACK. I can't cut back any more. He wil go on and on about cutting back, and then go out and buy some expensive steaks (because the only thing he eats if red meat, bread, cheese pizza and soda.....that's it) He has a VERY limited diet. I'm happy with macaroni and cheese or a ham sandwich. I really hate all his "pickiness", but won't let ME have my few picky things without saying something snide about it. I hate that too about ADHD....(or related issues)......the snide remarks that can really sting.
like I said......I need a break.
Hi dedelight4
Submitted by kellyj on
My eye caught something you said and it immediately registered......back pain. OMG!! It can be consuming and make your life miserable. I have 3 lower back disks that are shot (worn out from years of repetitive grinding ie: flip turns in swimming.....100,000's or more as a conservative guess?) When I was around 40....I thought my life was over. I could barely climb into my car to drive or get back out again to go anywhere. If I stepped off a curb wrong I would get a shot of pain that was so severe it actually made me dizzy from the pain and caused white flashes in front my eyes. It affected everything including my outlook on life after a while. There were times when I thought I hoped my life would end soon because I could not imagine living life this way from a normal life span point of view...(35-40 years of this.....I'd rather check out early if that was the case).
Today I am pain free and this no longer is a problem unless I do things wrong and forget not to do certain things that I know I can't do. But saying to the point that I found ways to fix the problem without having surgery which was the next step. The horror stories from other people stopped me from going that route and I am very thankful I didn't do it.
I tried Chiropractors, physical therapy and it was nothing more than a band aid and temporary relief. It did not fix the problem or make the pain go away and I was like this for almost 2 years straight without a break. I continued to work because I had to but I was in pain every day non stop. As time went on I became less active and put on a few pounds because it which only made things worse and made me feel even worse than before in my general outlook on life. I'm sure I was not that enjoyable to be around because it was like putting on a happy face and just pretending not to be as bad as I was.
If any of this sounds familiar.....I will tell you how I fixed this for myself and it has not returned in almost 18 years now.
Ironically.....I did it with swimming again....the original cause of the problem along with how my back is made...(long waisted and long upper torso ). After talking to a surgeon and my physical therapist....they both agreed that strengthening your stomach muscles and your abdomen is where I should be focusing.
When you are in the water....you are floating and it takes all the pressure off your spine. It relaxes your disks and lets more blood into them to rebuild more cartilage and heal. Exercising at the same time while this happens accelerates this process. Since you don't have any solid surface to push off of when you swim....your core ( the center of your body including your stomach and abdomen ) is the focal point for all the work that is being done so swimming alone build strength to your core and therefore....you stomach ) It is also 0 impact so there is no added stress to your spine when you are in the prone position....horizontal instead of vertical. It also takes the place of all those exercises that they have you do on the floor which didn't do much of anything as far as I was concerned.
I started swimming again and at first was really painful. For months everyday I swam in pain but it did help me feel a little better afterwards....but it hurt...a lot!!! After about 4 months straight without fail 6 days a week it started to get better. I continued to work through the pain and after a while I noticed the pain was not nearly as bad. After a year solid without fail....I was pain free again. I noticed after the first 4 months that I had lost 10 pounds and that in itself helped a lot right there.
All I can do for you is tell you that the pain from this changed my entire persecutive on life and caused me to become a different person in all areas not just physical but mentally as well. Like I said...it became all consuming and after a while....I didn't realize how much this had to do with everything else I did.
If anything....I do feel your pain here in this much and it is pretty hard to forget how that was. All I can do is offer you this advise if this is not something you have tried. Pain is something that will literally prevent you from doing the thing that you need to do to fix it in the first place and I know this from experience. It seems counter intuitive to do something that hurts in order to make the hurt go away but in reality....going the other directions and letting the pain dictate for you is allowing it to deceive you into complacency and becoming less active and more lethargic which is the opposite direction.
The surgeon told me that in my case at least.....I wouldn't be doing any more damage ( just the opposite) and I could push myself as far as I could stand the pain from doing this. I figured I was in so much pain already....what's a little more on top of it if it will help me later on down the road. This was the attitude I took and I went through a year of daily excruciating pain to get to the point of where it started really paying off. There were days that when I hit the wall at the end of the pool....I had to grab a hold of something because I thought I was going to pass out at times.....my vision got blurry and was going white and I thought I might pass out and sink to the bottom.
All I can say is that this fixed the problem for me as I said. I haven't had the same thing come back and my disks have found a state where I can maintain it as long as I keep the pounds off and keep excising regularly. I also completely retrained myself to move, bend and lift things differently to the point that I do it automatically and don't go back to doing things the same way I use to which was part of the problem. Only on rare occasions to I forget but to say....I can lift and carry 100lbs or more over distance and have no back pain whatsoever plus.....I'm in better shape and stronger than I was at 40 now at almost 58 years old.
Do not think that you are not able to do these kinds of things just because you are older and you have pain. Pain is a liar and it will trick you into believing things that are just not true. The only trick is not to avoid it if it isn't causing any more damage. Once you learn not to believe pain and realize that it's the pain is your ally instead of your enemy sometimes. You can do for yourself what a weekly visit to the doctor, therapist or chiropractor can never do for you like this and you will end up stronger in every way if you can just do it in the first place.
I'm not a doctor but I checked with one to make sure it was Okay to do what I did. His answer was....."exercise and never stop until you are dead. You won't be doing any more damage as long as you can stand the pain." I took his advise and it worked.
J
Hi Dede....I get u Sister....
Submitted by c ur self on
Learning to live along side my wife and keep my emotions in check, and not allow my mind to be continually cluttered with thoughts of how she lives life; has been the most overwhelming challenge by far of my 58 years of life....
I really can't say about the $ if it would have a negative impact if we shared, but, probably Ha ha...We only have separate accounts because when we married 7 years ago, we were both so established in our jobs; 23 years for her, and 32 for me at the time....And it was just easier because she had her insurance's and bills, and I really didn't need much help from her to cover the bills here...Also, I didn't realize it at the time, but she can't get rid of anything, so she still has the house and all those bills, she really could get out from under, if she was capable:)..If we had married in our 20's and had children together, I'm sure we would be more joined financially like most of you who have been married for years....
I'm so sorry about your back...I can empathize...I broke my back in my 20"s and never went to the Doctor....It eventually healed, but I live with spondylolisthesis ...In laymen's terms in healed out line, it's slipped....It got so bad while I was working if I had to go up in the hospital to do rounds with a head nurse on her unit....If she made small talk, and kept me tied up for 30 minutes or more, I would be in so much pain, I would just tell her, excuse me a moment...And I would have to squat down and stretch out the spine, or break out in a sweat....I retired early (age 56) because of that, and I couldn't keep doing all I had to do here and work in that kind of pain....I was starting to use my guy's to do my duties to avoid the pain....And I just never did that, I always made an effort to lead by example, so I was being effected emotionally as well...God has blessed me so much, I had been there over 37 years when I retired....I had worked my way up from a part time DO student in my 12th year of high school to a manger/ Life safety coordinator position by the time I retired...So that also figured into my decision....By God's Grace I had already over achieved and without a college education I couldn't get promoted any higher in the organization....And you know us ADHD people once we master something we get a little bored:),
I suggest you quit thinking you have to run behind him...I do it also, but I'm working on it and it's helping me so much emotionally....We had the best day of our married life yesterday...We woke up and had so intimate time, then rode bikes downtown and stopped for lunch...She handled the ride pretty good, I was proud of her. We came home and she played w/ her plants for a couple of hours while I rested and played on the computer...Then we dressed up, and I took her out for a date....She had wine on an empty stomach and a Martini w/ her supper...She wasn't feeling the floor great, when we left...I helped her to the bathroom, and we came home and had some more fun;)...I found out she has been seeking counsel about being a wife:)...That's a good thing...LOL...
When we walked in from our date....when I walked into the bathroom, and then into the bedroom...I calmly said as she headed down the hall someone broke in while we were gone, but they only destroyed your side of the room:)...She smiled as she entered the room and said...Yeah, I destroyed it!...It is what it is....There is an old saying that works well to calm me..."Don't sweat the small stuff, and it's all small stuff"...She was so beautiful in her black dress and her blonde hair and blue eyes...She keeps the normal container's and piles on her side of the bed...but there were about three drawers pulled all the way out of her dresser:)....And the bathroom is quiet a site....She had to start an 8 day shift today....I just worked around her mess when i showered, and want touch the drawers....She will eventually take care of it, I guess LOL>...I just have to make up my mind to ignore it....And if I start to dwell on it I talk out loud to myself....And put myself in my place:)
DeDe I have shared so much over the past year and half w/ you and I do care about you, I know the struggle!...You have been a great support and encouragement for me...I think what you and I and many others have to do...Is try and separate what is really our stuff form their stuff...It is so easy for me to put myself in the role of the victim and that is just what Satan wants...I have to keep my focus inward....Self-Discipline, Self-Control (fruit of the spirit), and Manage my emotions...I know the day we had yesterday can be repeated more often if I just accept her, and love her...I cannot count myself as a victim....That's like saying, there is no hope for us...If this marriage was all there is to life...I would have been gone....But, God is Awesome....Let me remind You! Roman's 8: 1&2 say's; There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death....How can a man who has had his Sin's forgiven and has the person of eternal life living in him not live a life of thankfulness? Paul told the Corinthians in his second letter chapter 4 vs 11...That those of us who are alive, will be delivered to our death, so that the person of Jesus can be seen in our mortal flesh...If it takes this marriage to mature me, if it take this marriage to stop c ur self from trying to save his life, Well bring it on, and praise the lord for it.....
Sorry this is so long, but never hesitate to talk to me on this site...You have blessed me and I always want to try and encourage and hear you!
Blessings Sister...I'm will pray for you!
C
That's Fantastic C ! :)
Submitted by kellyj on
Echoing your comments to Dede about the nice things she has shared with me in the past only to add that optimism is sometimes a scarce resource when you need it the most but it can be just as infectious as the alternative if you can it in yourself which can be enough to get you through the rough times. I think that was really nice what you shared in your experiences with your wife recently. Kudos to you in being able to separate the person that she is and see her that way...from the things that she cannot control (has not learned to yet...not as an excuse) only to say....she knows it. As witnessed by her response to you when you made your joke with her about being "broken into." You're speaking my language dude....that kind of sarcasm if done well as a joke (if received that way) is a good strategy in order to relate with her (and me for what it's worth). It may not fix the problem or cause her to do anything differently....but without that expectation behind it on your end....it did serve as a way in in relating to her as a person and that is ONE of the things you want from her. In reality.....it's one of the, if not the biggest thing on the list of things you want from her....to relate and connect and keep that connection. As Dede was saying as well....she misses having someone she can talk to who doesn't shut down after too long and leave's her there hanging. There is a real component to this that is a normal human response to living in depravation for too long and that's satiation or feeling satisfied. It's a really easy one to understand when you are starving hungry at times and then sit down to a really good meal which is a completely different experience than when you've just eaten a short time ago and then sit down to the very same meal.
If you can understand it from this place.....you can understand your wife better with her hoarding. It can become an addiction but even if not at that level....the impulses and the obsessive quality it has keeps her feeling unsatisfied when she can't keep doing it. As with all obsessive compulsive behaviors......it's only a temporary relief from what is really behind the anxiety that is behind it. That's really what that is all about. The other part of that has to do with her attachment to things and not being able to let them go. It's an insecure attachment that she feels inside (in general)....a loss or missing in connection with your and the outside world. It is that black hole inside her that is never ending with no relief in sight for her that she is compelled ( compulsive impulse) that she carries around with her all the time and she is seeking something that will relieve her from the anxiety that this creates inside her. The best thing you can do for her is to find a way to relate with her on that level and make her feel more secure. What you did with her was a really excellent way to do this very thing and you are on the right track if you can keep doing this. Hopefully at this point....you are understanding the value this has for you as well?
I also wanted to share with you and Dede what it is like from this side of things in the relating and connecting department ( the big one ) that you both want from your spouses. To be sure at this point from being here on this forum long enough.....not everyone here is at this same point you are and my only reason for doing this is not to evoke sympathy either. I'm long past that stage myself so I am in the problem solving solution finding mode here with you too. Before I do that...I also want to make clear in my own ability to separate these things out from one another....that what I am working to do is just the opposite of what I am suggesting here for you.
You need to minimize these things in your head and see them separately than the person sitting in front of you.....I on the other hand have to keep reminding myself constantly all the time not to minimize the impact that my symptoms have on other people which is exactly the problem that you run into most of the time with people with ADHD. It's very difficult to take for granted something that is so obvious and important to everyone else that you yourself cannot see the same and to even understand why that is in the first place. This is that intangible unexplainable quality that you have to take it for granted that we have this affect on people even without understanding why or even knowing that it really exists and the gravity of effect it has. Thinking here of a good analogy and not coming up with one (that's strange? ha ha) How about trying to remember the Moons of Jupiter and when they make one orbit and trying to keep track of that? Like how on earth( pun pun) would that be an important thing to keep track of and put importance too?? Why??? lol This is kind of what it feels like in order to do it and why it's so hard to keep remembering to do it. If you want to argue this or condemn it because you don't feel it's accurate or it exists....then you are as much in denial of this fact as the person who has it is in the first place. Like you said.....it is what it is? That's all you have to know and accept.
Having said that......here's some reminders for you in seeing your partner.
Remember....it's executive functioning. there are nine things to keep track of and remember and they are coming at you all at the same time. The only way this is really possible is a ton of awareness, lots of practice and plenty of external cues....ie......reminders. It's not just one thing.....it's nine things and each one carries with it a separate complaint from everyone else that you are trying to remember to do and not screw up. That means to a certain degree.....as good as you get at controlling them and managing them....there is no way that one or two aren't going to sneak up and bite you on the ass on occasion. This is in my mind....as good as it gets. If you minimize the level of execution this requires and the amount of effort it takes to just get to this point....you are discounting how difficult this is and any effort that a person is putting in just to get to that point alone.
As I read what you wrote C......I went, good job. Whether you realize it or not....you picked the one important one and let the others go for the evening but still made a joke about one of them as a kind and friendly reminder without any expectation of that one reminder getting directly applied. This is so important to remember C......those little reminders are like reminding her to check Jupiter's moon orbits again. They are planting seeds.....you're not expecting a full grown plant in your bedroom in the morning. If you keep doing that and just allowing them to grow they will. If you dowse the soil with salt the next day out of frustration you just killed the very seed you put there to grow. That's the concept you need to keep reminding yourself of....not her. She knows that part already and to the point.....all too well.
Trying to evoke sympathy from her may feel like a legitimate way to motivate her....(as it does for me).....but now you've just added another one to the nine things to have to do and you already have a list of other ones happening for her at the same time. Cleaning (logic and logistics...fret fret).....sympathy (feelings and emotions and full undivided attention towards you fret fret).....hoarding (impulses fret fret fret)...........bill paying (logic and logistics fret fret fret fret fret).........frustrations and anxiety (personally uncomfortable feelings and emotions fret fret fret fret fret fret fret fret fret fret fret fret).......plants ( aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh ) If it was Homer Simpson, it would be "mmmmmmmmmm....donuts." lol This is happening all at the same time at any given moment of the day.....you need to cognizant of this fact in order to understand what you need to do on your end to get her to connect with you. Anything you do to add to this is only creating more fretting and ruminating and in dumping fuel onto the fire. Your emotional needs as much as they are on the list......there are always other fires to put out first before she can get to a place where you can get her undivided attention and connect with you emotionally. Remember when I said....KISS.....keep it simple stupid? This is why on my end! lol If you apply this to her on your end for this reason.....it will work the same way. Going on a bike ride ( getting her out of the house and away from the negative stress causing reminders).....getting dressed and ready for dinner (in anticipation of a positive experience).....going to dinner again....outside of the house and away from anxiety causing negative reminders (getting relaxed and liquored up and lubricated which also help let go of some of that anxiety)......now she only has one things to think about and deal with in the moment.......you. She still only has a finite amount focus and attention she is able to give you at one time....but you did everything right in maximizing it for yourself by doing all the things you did to get her there. I don't think it has to be a fancy dinner on the town or spending a lot of money ( for me that's not an important part of this)....but getting her undivided attention for yourself by reducing the competition inside her head is exact what you did and low and behold it worked.
In these moments like this.....you need to pay attention to a couple of things that will either make or break this connection for you. What you do or don't do at these times will make a big difference to whether you will get it again. In one aspect to this.....you don't trust her any more than she does with you. What she doesn't trust it not getting hit with a stressor from you right at the same you want her to connect with you.
Pick your poison.....you want to connect and talk about feelings and emotions and have her undivided attention.....or you want to talk about house chores and bills and things of that nature? One or the other.....you can't have both at the same time unless you are asking for trouble or her not trusting that this will not continue to happen each time you get her alone and in a place where she cannot escape from you. What is likely to happen in her head if that happens is......(fret fret fret.....where's my plants!!!! I wonder if there is a Goodwill anywhere near by? Which reminds me, Nordstrom is having a sale tomorrow....I've got to remember that...mental note....Nordstrom, Nordstrom , Nordstrom, oops, that reminders me also I'm out of potting soil, my plants!!!..... fret, fret, fret.....I think I've had about enough of this for now, I'm getting ready to leave) then to you..." what was that dear? I lost you there for a second.....oh, yes I'm sorry about the bedroom mess.....I try and do better next time" .....(okay now I'm done....that one just put me over the edge and I'm tapped out) lol
It's not that she doesn't want to connect with you or feels the need (actually just the opposite but that insecure attachment thing she is probably flying way over her head at the time and she doesn't have a clue? Perhaps.....it took me a long time to nail that one down and it still can be indirectly bothersome but I can nail it when I'm put to the test. More practice....more awareness! lol
What just popped into my head was one of my favorites as far as my work is concerned. I did not make this up but I loved this the second I saw it which reads:
You can have it done fast.....or you can have it done well......or you can have it done cheap.........but you only get to pick two:) that's the concept.
J
This post is something special....So helpful J
Submitted by c ur self on
J I would like to say first your care and concern humbles me...your accuracy in understanding the dynamic's of the relationship (mine personally) based on the limitations of executive function is uncanny!...Or You a Palm Reader:)) Differing perceptions must be recognized....The joke wasn't an intentional reminder on my part....It just spawned from amazement and being relaxed...Ha Ha...But I agree with you 100% if I had shown the slightest bit of stress, disapproval or anxiety she would have picked up on it....And I might as well have thrown a bucket of cold water on her....You can't have it both ways....Beside's she makes a much better wife when relaxed, than I do a Mother any time..LOL....
The story behind the story....How much work was it for my wife to get ready in a timely fashion last night to meet the expectations I have placed on us in the past to go on time? How much effort did she exert (for me) to find the things she wanted or felt she needed to wear considering the state of her stuff ? When she approached me after she ready herself...She didn't come in from behind me, She made a circle so she could let me watch her approach me head on....She wasn't smiling, she was stoic, she was persenting herself to me...and I affirmed her in awe:) At that moment all the work and effort and mess:) was so worth it..
Changing the subject a bit...Back to the root of some my comments and some that you have so aptly described here.....
When stress and anxiety is present many people who suffer with a fast mind and those with other personality disorders (and those with no discernable emotional disabilities) can struggle to deal with an issue like the small thing it really is....the lack of cognitive perception tends to distort and amplify everything....So the little things escalate....These can happen quickly for angry and emotionally distraught people...When I speak of acceptance and not engaging verbally when emotions are high, there is good reason behind it.....I personally have never been part of a conversation where it escalated, became distorted, and filled w/ anger that was ever constructive....Just the opposite....It's like shooting a shotgun into your spouse's Love tank....
Thanks C, You Said
Submitted by kellyj on
When stress and anxiety is present many people who suffer with a fast mind and those with other personality disorders (and those with no discernable emotional disabilities) can struggle to deal with an issue like the small thing it really is....the lack of cognitive perception tends to distort and amplify everything....So the little things escalate....These can happen quickly for angry and emotionally distraught people.
These words are so true....now mix and match these personalities together and that's a real source for conflict right there.....especially when you want to be heard and express yourself and you are not being understood on either side.
Myself for example. Before I was diagnosed I would get really irritable when I was trying to express something important and to this day....still get frustrated at times even when I am aware of it with my wife. I am the fast mind in this case. I use to tell my T when I first started with him that it felt like I was being held up and why can't people follow me? It feels like I'm dragging a dog sled loaded with cement bags to have to try and slow down to other people at times. People can be so stupid!!!! And even when I slow down....they still can't understand me? WTF???
Just the other day in our T's office.....he is merciless with me now. I can't interrupt, make a peep, jump ahead, pick my nose (kidding) or be defensive even indirectly in anything I say or he will jump right in and stop me and we will go over in detail exactly what I am doing wrong and why this is in great detail. It may seem like he is being really rude, which under normal circumstances he would be which he even said out loud to my wife and explained to her what was happening. He is literally treating me like a Guinea Pig in front my wife as if I was doing this on purpose to illustrate a point to her. In reality.....this is no act. And after he is done grilling me and making it nearly impossible to speak or say anything without him interrupting me....he will change the subject and not allow me to make the point I was trying to make!! LOL Then after a few minutes....he will pause and say " are you feeling defensive? " Me...."ooh....yeah just a little bit....but I'm trying not to be." Which is the truth. I was sitting quietly listening and letting him break all the rules of etiquette one would normally consider as boorish and rude of him to do.
This is in essence....him throwing everything I do at times right back in my face even though he does it in a more pronounced exaggerated way. Why? So I can see what it feels like and come to that conclusion myself. But I understand in the moment what he is doing even if he doesn't say this is an exercise in front of my wife. By the way.....she does all these things too so she gets to sit back and watch and quietly think about what she is observing.
By doing this to me on my end....I feel it every time he hits me with it and it pin points exactly the place where I need to look at. Nothing like experience as a teacher right? It's actually old school operant conditioning ( remember? BF Skinner and the Pigeons during World War II ? ) In this case....I'm more like a Pigeon than a Guinea Pig now that I think about it. lol
On my wifes end....she just sits and listens mostly but she is beginning to watch him manipulate me and drawing me right into quick sand....and even knowing better after a few minutes later.....will do it again. I just laugh now because he is so clever in how he can do this and for me it's now more of a game with him to see if I can beat him at his own game. To date.....I have lost every time! lol
The point here in doing this is to show her that I really am not kidding or just making excuses and have less control over these things than she might otherwise believe. In real time.....he is demonstrating just how difficult it is for to do and then show how frustrated and defensive I might be even if I'm not saying anything. All of this is true.
I stopped interrupting people a long time ago but there is step two in the same impulse control problem that he is really making me see. That sled dog analogy is one I am now eating my own words about since now what he has so poignantly brought ot my attention is how fast and far I get ahead of myself and not allowing or being patient enough to bring my wife or other people along with me at the same time. This is just one example of the things that I could not see before and how I was missing the connection. It was not bad enough or rude enough to cause an extreme reaction in other people so it is one of those that gets slid on by and no one says anything but....it's annoying to say the least and it makes the other person feel like they are not being heard when in reality on my end....they really are. I'm a good listener but a poor "pauser". lol I fill up too much space too fast and cover way too much ground before my wife has a chance to think about things. In her case....her issues and filters surrounding this thing cause her to get angry and lash out or become accusatory and blaming.....that's her issue of course. Not everyone responds to me like she does in fact......on occasion, I meet people who are moving the same speed as me and we get along great and can talk that way for hours non stop without a hitch. These styles as you would call them in patterns in speech get exacerbated to an extreme when you have two different ones conflicting with one another.
But on a much more important and deeper level.....my style as it might be called has a deeper source to the reason for it and it is directly associated with impulse control and EF with my ADHD. It is the less than subtle reason on other peoples end and the almost completely elusive part on my end to notice unless you have a third party like my T run you through this in order for you to see it in the first place.
Now....instead of getting irritated and thinking that other people are holding me up.......I go oops....stop myself and know that this is the exact thing that is causing problems in allowing other people to connect with me better.
Like you said....once you start throwing other disorders and filters into this and trying to pit those against my hurried or rushed speech at time....plus jumping ahead too fast and missing an important bit of information and then having to go back and fill that in after the fact....no wonder this becomes and almost impossible scenario to get through even a simple evening without some kind of wall you run into. The good thing ( the promising thing here for me) .....my emotional walls and filters are pretty few and far between now and mostly.....this is still just the ADHD hard wiring thing I am having to retrain myself in doing.
Thank God for BF Skinner and his pigeons? It's amazing how someone comes up with a way to blow up Japanese ships in war time.....and it ends up helping me now with my ADHD? Not everything that came out of that conflict was only useful for destruction:)
J
Your not alone!
Submitted by c ur self on
(People can be so stupid!!!! And even when I slow down....they still can't understand me?) These same people are saying man this guy is on something, he has no patients and really loves the sound of his own voice..Ha Ha....
( I fill up too much space too fast and cover way too much ground before my wife has a chance to think about things. ) My wife is add w/o the h...I more like you:); she struggles to follow and comprehend in conversation, I must use patient's and pause (two things I'm terrible at. esp..the pausing) and let her digest, or she can turn anxious and loose interest...And on her end she can't hold a thought, and feels she must interject, so interruptions start...If I call her down, and say well let me finish this sentence or point....And she forgets her thought, which usually happens...I'm hogging the talk time and just became the scum of the earth...LOL...She also loves to talk her mind freely enough, she likes the sound of her voice also, and she can't track talk time, so to her she's only been talking 2 minutes, when actually it can be more like 10 or 15...And if I start on long monolog...Long being 3 minutes....She gets so lost after 30 seconds and will angrily interrupt and tell me I've been talking the whole time...When I try to point out the actual times and tell her all she said before I started talking...She interrupts cuts me off and goes strait to denial....This is why I have to stay aware, use patients, and focus more on being quiet, than trying to relay details in conversation that will just end up frustrating her, no matter the subject matter....Executive Function Problems....I had just as soon rub her pretty leg and trade smiles...LOL
C
My Recent Post Seconds the 8 Year Old Analogy
Submitted by kellyj on
I am an 8 year old when it comes to these things sometimes..(me ADHD) but I take responsibility for being this way by trying not to be and finding ways to do it.....and no one has ever accused me of being lazy despite my ADHD tendencies. Anyone who knows me would laugh at a comment like that as it would apply to me. I work full time (+ overtimes whenever I can) and I have several side businesses that I do out of my home. There are certainly ADHD related problems within this as far as house chores, clutter and incomplete simultaneous projects are concerned....but laziness is not one of them.
The only comments that were made that I think have some merit ( ones that should not be over looked ) are when her husband said, "I'm unrealistic in my expectations...doing things in my way and my time." I also struggle with "consistency". I think there might be a compromise within that statement thinking of someone with the abilities of an 8 year old which, in these areas I would agree that sometimes we are. This is ADHD related...the rest is just irresponsible and sounds like it is laziness. ADHD does not cause either...there are many other reasons for these qualities that have nothing to do with ADHD.
If this is the case, he has a long way to go before they can get to the compromise in expectations, time and doing things his way. Sounds like he needs awake up call.....(smack upside the head?) kidding of course.
Convincing themselves
Submitted by crossingfingers... on
My bf said to someone the other day that he works harder at applying for jobs than he would work at a job. I swear. I actually said out loud in front of them "don't say that" before I could stop myself. He thinks he is charming. And he insists to me that he is working hard just by applying for jobs.
That's rich. Did you
Submitted by Sprockets on
That's rich. Did you point out to him that when people are actually working they get paid?
I would be hard pressed not
Submitted by redhead1017 on
I would be hard pressed not to say something. Wow. My DH informed me that he applies for jobs constantly....and by "constantly" he means 2 applications a week, if that. What a joke.
Sounds VERY familar to me.
Submitted by kkw28_98 on
I was in the same position you were at 2 years ago going crazy. Now we're divorced and I couldn't be any happier. Though leaving my husband wasn't an easy task, it was something that needed to be done so I could get my sanity back. My ex wasn't willing to change and I wasn't going to spend 50 years of my life taking care of an adult child....
Are All ADHD Men Like This or Just the Ones We're Talking About
Submitted by kellyj on
Serious question for all you ladies and (man) in this case. I'm on this forum specifically because I want to hear from the other side....the non-ADHD side. I'm here to keep reminding myself how difficult we can be to live with so I DON'T say or think the things I'm hearing coming from other ADHD spouses...
But what I'm hearing or reading doesn't line up at all with myself and what I know having ADHD is like. Specifically the parts I'm hearing in this post. Not working? No financial support? Big toys and spending disproportionate amount of time goofing off, laying around with an overblown sense of work and accomplishment???? The terms deadbeat and freeloader pop into my head when I read these posts. The first thing I want to chime in and say is " not everyone with ADHD is like this, in fact...I'd bet they aren't." Thinking in terms of myself at my very worst before being diagnosed or trying medication ....nothing even comes close to the kinds of things I'm reading here. I know a handful of men and woman without ADHD who fit these descriptions pretty closely and I have a variety of definitions I could use to describe them.
So.......am I wrong?.... or is this the common pattern for men and woman with ADHD? When I've referred to myself as an 8 year old, I'm talking about household chores clutter and the like....but mostly my issues have to do with consistency and letting things go too far before cleaning up.......but I do house work and I clean and the yard....and when I do it meets my spouses approval...I just have to watch the time and make sure I don't let things get out of control before I stop and return it to a respectable state especially when I'm working on my own stuff or recreational projects. This is where the 8 year old part comes in. These men do sound like adult children but I don't associate that with having ADHD.
Am I wrong or are these the 2% ers (it's a motorcycle reference for outlaw bikers) I'd like to hear your thoughts.....I know this really helps me get perspective because....I'm only an expert when it comes to myself:)
JJ
As I said in another post
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
As I said in another post earlier today, I'm not sure which of my husband's behaviors (if any) are attributable to ADHD. But he did get that diagnosis and I have found lots of support at this and another ADD-related forum, so that's why I'm here.
I hope my spouse isn't typical. I don't think he is. My own therapist speculated that my husband's ADHD-like symptoms might have stemmed from anxiety and depression, rather than vice versa. I've wondered, based on certain behaviors and family history, whether he might be on the autism spectrum or have early-onset Alzheimer's disease.
Having never met another
Submitted by redhead1017 on
Having never met another ADDer (or at least not anyone who admitted it), and my DH being the only man I've ever really been with as far as a relationship, I don't have any experience otherwise. It seems like most of the DHs we're talking about have some common characteristics:
And so on. You sound like the complete polar opposite of most of the men on this board, my DH included.
As Far as My ADHD is Concerned......
Submitted by kellyj on
I don't think I am any different. I suffer from the exact same challenges it would appear as most everyone else who has ADHD ( dependent on type and severity of course ). In other ways there does sound like there is a difference. I'm trying to figure out what those differences are and try and capitalize on them. Time management and scattered focus are definite struggles for me. Ambition and job retention are not. I'm 56 and have never been fired, laid off or ask to leave any job I've had starting at age 15. I'd pretty much rule out lack of ambition as an ADHD trait.
I'll post later with my thoughts on this....in part, it's why I'm here. I do see a correlation between effort and success which extends to all areas of a persons life across the board including but not limited to ADHD. I have to think about this one for a bit...more later.
One huge difference I see in
Submitted by c ur self on
One huge difference I see in you verses most of the spouses I read about in these posts, including mine a big part of the time, is your willingness to get on here and state this is who I am, and this is the effects of adhd I battle with...Denial or refusing to come face to face with your own actions is the killer for any of us...But if your life style is so overwhelming those you love the most, and you want to act like everyone else is messed up (Denial & Blame) then it just forces tough situations to seem hopeless for a lot of spouses who's mates daily exhibit less than responsible adult behaviors.
ambition
Submitted by smilingagain on
I agree. Some people with ADHD may not be ambitious at all- but my father is the most ambitious person I have ever met in my life- former Olympian, CEO...
Many of my family members with ADHD (cousins) are also extremely ambitious.
My thinking is that some people with adhd may start out ambitious, but when they hit walls over and over again, eventually it impacts self-esteem and confidence... As it begins to look futile and feel hopeless, you see that ambition change into frustration that there is no opportunity to reach potential... then you see people getting depressed, negative, losing hope and giving up... it's kind of sad to me. I feel blessed to have had some early success, which kept me feeling confident and kept me on the right path.
You brought a very good point about Ambition
Submitted by kellyj on
I suspected as much when I paused to think but it was great you brought up this point in reference to your father. I like him....extroverted, hyperactive, positive and an athlete. I started swimming competitively when I was 6 years old in 1rst grade and continued through high school into college...as well as playing water polo, little league, Babe Ruth baseball. I never made it to the Olympics but I was being groomed for it if I had been good enough. Regardless....the benefits out weighed any award or title for me. My therapist said this saved my life and now I'm beginning to understand why. All the points you made in your analogy are spot on....very insightful.
I realize now after 30 years away from competitive sports, just how much this did for me in regards to my ADHD.
The most valuable lesson you learn from competition is how to lose.......... graciously and with dignity, and how to honor other competitors whether they are better than you or not as good... it works both ways...win or lose. You also learn team work, self sacrifice, humility, self motivation and resilience........and that effort pays off directly...the more you put in....the more you get out......... Success is solely dependent on you and your ability......and the rewards you receive are earned... there is no entitlement. You also learn that you are only as good as you are on any given day....no time to rest on your Laurels because if you do.....tomorrow you will lose. I can hear myself saying these words (to myself) on a daily basis and it's easy to forget sometimes how these words got into my head in the first place.lol
I think Ambition comes from both success and learning not to quit when you fail. Having ADHD tests you in the same ways and having developed these skills early without knowing it at the time...really did save my life. I think this is why I may be doing better than others with my ADHD......my symptoms and my struggles with them are not any easier for me perhaps....but, the skills I acquired to deal with them have made me more successful at doing so than someone else without the same skills.
I have to be thankful and count my blessings for this much at the very least.
"learning not to quit when
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
"learning not to quit when you fail"
I so wish my husband had learned this. I am not upset with him because not everything has worked out well for him in life; I'm upset that when things didn't work out well, he didn't get up, dust himself off, and keep moving forward. I have been so willing to work through problems next to him and with him, but he ignores them or gives up.
Maybe in yourself lack of
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
Maybe in yourself lack of ambition isn't a problem, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it isn't a trait of the disorder. Or maybe more men with a lack of ambition happen to also have ADHD. Or maybe they are depressed which causes the lack of ambition and they're depressed possibly because of the ADHD. It's a really trick soup here.
Ambition or Motivation?
Submitted by kellyj on
How I have always been and have described myself is a "doer." I am productive almost non stop. The mountain of evidence of this is everywhere when I look around. I can't stop. That's always been my problem. Sitting doing nothing is the hardest thing for me to do. That''s where my ADHD becomes a problem. But I am one of the most prolific people you would could ever meet! It's not in always in the way of money but I motivated by that too. I make things to sell so I can make more things. It pays for itself in the hobbies too so I don't spend out of pocket money to support my leisure activities. I've always been this way and have always tried to make things I like to do pay for themselves and I'm pretty good at it. The biggest issue my wife and I have is that I don't stop long enough to give her some of that energy too....but we have worked this out at this point in time and I have start and stop times that we have agreed to adhere to. No computers, projects or anything related after 7:00pm. That time is sacred time and I have been honoring that for a while with few exceptions. It seems to work?
But I am not short on either ambition or motivation so I don't or can't relate with many of things I hear on this forum? I don't have an answer aside from suspecting ADD vs ADHD. In my case...the "H" makes all the difference I think?
Starting sometimes is tricky....stopping has always a problem! lol
PS...She goes to bed early around 9:30-10:00 pm so I usually save anything like computer time in the evening for then but...I have been slowly shifting my bed time to hers but it's still a little early for me sometimes. What has really worked out there is getting up early 4:00 -5:00 am. I get most of my chores done then plus have time to use as I choose when she is asleep. If I remember...she has coffee waiting for her:) I use to go to bed well after 11:00 pm so it has taken a number of months to make this adjustment but it has really helps for us to stay in sync this way in more ways than one:)
Just finish something...LOL....
Submitted by c ur self on
(Starting sometimes is tricky....stopping has always a problem! lol)...It's the never finishing to completeness that makes me Crazy:) Ha Ha....
Yep...I'm On IT!!
Submitted by kellyj on
That is one of my current things I am trying to focus on everyday. Finishing things to completion. The was a big problem for me.....not so much any more. I am very aware of it now and finish everything as soon as I can and clean up after I am done. What a concept? lol
J
Yes!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
Or maybe more men with a lack of ambition happen to also have ADHD. Or maybe they are depressed which causes the lack of ambition and they're depressed possibly because of the ADHD. It's a really trick soup here.
<<<
That is why, I think, it's important for parents to recognize these shortcomings in their child and help guide them into jobs and careers that are a good fit, where they can shine, because the good feelings that come from that feed ambition.
Yes, Also
Submitted by kellyj on
I think depression really IS the biggest hindrance and going along with the things you said and the culprit for low motivation and no ambition. I was lucky in one aspect of this. I had things I found I was good at doing and just kept doing them because they made me feel good about myself......therefore.....whenever I was depressed, I knew right where to go and it always worked to pull me back out again.
Do you see the cycle here? I was lucky that these were not mal-adaptive things or having this turn into OCD, addictions or any other direction this same pattern or cycle could go. Like I said....I was lucky that I was born with some things that I recognized early.....very early. They became a pretty healthy and productive pattern that still exists today. At the time....no one really lead me to this....it just happened that way however....my mother....bless her heart....did care and was always keeping and eye out for things to keep me busy and out of trouble. She did see my talents early on and sent me in those directions. Actually, without knowing what she was doing.....she was doing the exact right thing. Maybe keeping out of trouble was her goal....and maybe I just did things because they felt good so therefore I enjoyed them....but in the end....by hook or crook....it was the right thing to do.
I cannot emphasize this enough!!!! People with ADHD are hit in all directions with failure and after a while you get swamped with it. It will bring you down and smother you after a while. We need something to pull us back out when that happens or else depression will start taking over.
That's the pattern.....that's the concept. If you see this in your H or BF going in cycles like this.....chance are....a positive shot in the arm will do wonders for him. Not from you telling him....but for him to get out of his funk and actually doing something like this and that will give him that successful, accomplished feeling and experience whatever it is.
Having disdain for these activities or hobbies what ever they are is only making it worse. It not just a hobby in this case....it's a prescription for anxiety and depression and will do more for that than any pill you can buy. Of course the balance part is the part that is a problem for everyone else but.....you should pay attention to this cycle and watch if you don't see the activity time increase the more stress and anxiety is apparent.
And with no outlet or relief....depression sets in. This is as much for your benefit as it is for your spouse since you will reap the results of this pattern going to it's logical conclusion....either good or bad.
Of course....if the ADHD person is in denial completely and not use to paying attention to their mental state and their body and what it is telling them.....this will go right over their head and they won't notice any of this.
I got use to taking care of my body at least pretty young doing sports (watching my carb intake ...more not less!)...watching and paying attention to my hydration level (critically important for performance on all levels )....watching my vitamins and minerals ( low on calcium means muscle cramps! OUCH!!!!!)....checking my weight and muscle mass ( so I know to eat more or differently). Most kids I knew didn't do this kind of stuff but we all had to if we wanted to do well since.....our competition was doing it too. It was serious stuff and pretty intense for an elementary school kid but I thought it was cool and it gave me something to focus on.....like I was in the big leagues or something right?
It is absolutely imperative if you have an ADHD child that you get them involved like this. It totally save my life and I started it early. Like I said....I was lucky since no one at that time knew what the hell they were doing.
Drugs and medications do work....but exercise, successful activities, positive reinforcement and hands on experience trumps anything i can think of as an alternative to this. There's not good replacement for mother nature. If you can't control these cycles early with established patterns.....they'll end up being there anyway in not so healthy ones and it won't be because that person can help it from happening. The key is controlling it and being aware it exist in the first place.
I noticed it every time I had to go out and perform and started seeing that some days were better than others and noticed what I did to make the good ones continue and keep happening.
Resources, resources resources!!!! If what is available is not good for you....it will be what you will reach for if there is nothing else around. The cycles are already there, you have little to no choice in tht much.....but ones the patterns get set with things to counter these imbalances or swings ..... this will be your default if something else does not intervene.
This right there....is why we are so inconsistent. BINGO....right on the money!!
It's a hell of a lot easier to start 10 good habits as a child....than it is to break one bad one as an Adult. I'm hear to tell you that this is what everyone here is up against with ADHD.
If you are with someone with ADHD and they cannot see this.....you need to learn to see it and know what you are seeing. That is something you can do and a way to help the person you are with instead of becoming irritated or agitated over something that you do not understand. It's not hard to see it and most of your know exactly what I am talking about. Recognizing it for them if they are not seeing could be a huge benefit for them and for your sake as well.
As long as they will listen of course. That denial is a BITCH!!! lol
J
Hi! I thought I'd share a
Submitted by dweeb on
Hi! I thought I'd share a post I came across from Melissa which sums up a lot: http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/men-adhd-who-arent-convinced-it-matters
Also, I came here out of desperation, seeking couples in similar situations to mine. I wanted to know what was my husband and what was ADD because if it fell on my husband I was going to leave him.
My husband shares a lot of the similarities I've read on here.
-inconsistent
-lying
-money issues
-careless with his words
-lazy around the house
etc.
I did read a post about women with AD(h)D showing symptoms much differently than men do, I think it was from ADDitude mag online. Maybe that's the difference?
ha ha!
Submitted by smilingagain on
I have ADHD and I agree that reading negative generalizations about people with ADHD is frustrating and oftentimed totally inaccuracte...
Since I am a woman though- I will comment about the behaviours of the men in my life with ADHD...
My husband: he is inattentive, not hyperactive... so he doesn't exhibit any blurting, talking about inappropriate things, etc... But he still does exhibit a lot of the negative behaviours described here- the short fuse and irritability, the inconsistency, the losing things, the blaming and defensiveness. He is very careful with money though and frugal and responsible in that way. He doesn't get flshya toys for himself... BUT- he will hyperfocus on some item he wants and spend a gazillion years researching it and he will hyperfocus on some task he swears is urgent (like organizing the pantry) and then expect me to take care of everything else (kids, truly essential tasks) while he putters around. Then he expects a big contratulations and thanks when it's done- when it was actually completely unneccessary and often very inconvenient. He is getting WAY better since he has been in treatment.
My dad: He is hyperactive (like me!) and extroverted. The most positive, happy person I know. Always good energy. Very high powered business man- well respected pillar of the community. Involved in everything.My dad is careful with money- but did have a few spectacular business failings in his 20's and 30's. Never angry or yelling. Not at all petty. Looks at everything optimistically. The most annoying symptom my dad has- has always been his inability to prioritize the family- because he just kind of follows the action- he is always looking for something stimulating to jump into. For example- he inadvertently scheduled a business meeting in the middle of my law school graduation (which was on the calendar for months). When I raised it with him, he wouldn't cancel the meeting because he didn't want to let anyone down (WTF about me, dad?). My parents have a traditional marriage where my mum is the homemaker. She and my dad had plenty of conflict when we were kids (I didn't see it- but that's what my mum says now). but now that the kids are grown and they are nearing retirement, the conflict is gone because my mum can do whatever she wants too! My dad is also more interested in family then he used to be. He is a great grandfather to my kids.
In summary- the majority of people posting here are non-adhd spouses. Mostly they are women dealing with a male spouse who has undiagnosed and/or untreated ADHD... so that's a different sample than if you had a group of people dealing with a spouse who had well-managed ADHD.
I think people with ADHD, when they end up in the right environment, can be absolute superstars... I am in the right job and feel like superwoman! It's just a good fit. I am happy every day at work. My dad is in a job like that too. However, when you see people with ADHD in a bad fit- you see really awful things happening. It sounds like you are one of the lucky ones who has manouvered yourself into a job that fits your skills and interests.
Anyway- best of luck to you! Keep that childlike spirit! But once in awhile, even 8 year olds have to do chores to get their allowance... :)
.
I don't have ADHD but I
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
I don't have ADHD but I believe stuff like organizing the pantry and cleaning up are always great and necessary things. I wish my husband would get a burst of interest and energy like that. The only time I think he ever did in 8 years was when he took a week tackling the basement as his project. It was one of those rare moments when it needed to be done and he did it and he actually did it with amazing focus and determination. If only he had some of that for other things and people in his life.
There You Go
Submitted by kellyj on
It can be done. I use my hyperfocus in this way to get things done. All you have to do is decide to do it and works like a charm. It takes effort and awareness but it's using your negative strengths and turning them into positive ones. That's the concept.
J
Something to think about along those lines....
Submitted by c ur self on
My wife loves to feel good about herself; she needs me to affirm her regularly, she also is very competitive....I found out that me just being me....Very efficient at most things...Cooking, Cleaning and most anything I set my mind to....Was causing her to withdraw...My efforts were being perceived my her mind as; "He doesn't need me" So that negatively impact her emotions....She didn't see me as "Hey this guy loves me; he is going to share in the workload with me, and he is efficient"....(The message I was trying to send) She saw me as her competition; that she felt she couldn't match; So why try?...My living of life, trying to share, help and be responsible to the needs of the home was basically just setting a standard she felt she couldn't live up to....(And, I'm sure I was a Narcissistic butt hole about it at time; insensitive male) It took along time and and lot's of anger to figure this out....If your spouse suffers w/ ADD and their love language is Affirmation....You may want to think about the pressure your putting on them even if it's completely unintentional....
Don't cuss me:) this is useful information....Even if you don't want it....What do we tell our children when they are small....Open up; hold your nose and swallow!
C
Right O C...
Submitted by kellyj on
It's not your reality you have to speak to....it her's. It doesn't make sense because her distortions in perceptions are off. You're doing something helpful and nice....and she perceive that you don't need her and will abandon her and will start freaking out or get hostile and angry at you for your perceived "abandoning behavior"???
It may not be real to you but it is to her. If you talk her language of love and use back door instead of the front where reality is.....you're golden to her. That's how you love her and make her feel loved....not the way you want it back from her...the way she wants it from you no matter how irrational as it seems. It is very counter intuitive.
What it is my bother ;)
J
Yep J....You see it:)
Submitted by c ur self on
There's an old Keith Whitley Song...."When you say nothing at all" ....Allison Krauss sings it....When I think about coexisting with my wife peacefully....This song title describes where I'm at in my efforts to love her:)...Except for me it's When I say nothing at all:)
There's a song by Brad Paisley called "She's Everything"....this song is my wife up and down...It describes her to a tee....Except you may want to think about the girl in the song...as add:) Ha Ha....
Once You See the Man Behind the Curtain...
Submitted by kellyj on
there ain't no go'in back. You can't un-ring the bell as they say.. lol All you see is a old guy with grey hair in a funny suit. Sound vaguely familiar??? lol
(sorry for the double negative:)
J
I don't have ADHD but I believe stuff like organizing the pantry
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>> I don't have ADHD but I believe stuff like organizing the pantry and cleaning up are always great and necessary things. I wish my husband would get a burst of interest and energy like that. >>
The difference may be that you find those things important (neat pantry) and he doesn't. I also like having an organized pantry and drawers. H will mess them up almost as soon as I organize them. He doesn't see the need or importance.
It's the now, not now, thing going on. If he were looking for something, he'd appreciate the organization, but the money he's grabbed what he wants, he has no interest in maintaining the organization.
I cleaned out our Pantry yesterday...
Submitted by c ur self on
My W has been gone on trip for the past three days....I cleaned out the pantry yesterday...Three Garbage bags to the trash....Everything outdated or old is gone....She had put bags of oats and special cereals she had bought at these arts and crafts things....(suppose to be good for you) All she did was bring home stuff moths were hatching out in...I've been killing them in the house for weeks....No more! that mess is gone...She will be home in an hour....My guess is instead of bragging on how good the pantry looks she will have something negitive to say about some of the things I threw out...Living w/ a Hoarder takes great patients & discipline:)....Hopefully some day I will get it....LOL>>>>
Coming Back Here Smilingagain
Submitted by kellyj on
You wrote this response to me when I first came to the forum (if you are out there?) and when I read about your father it struck a cord with me. From the sound of it in many ways.....I can say that at this point in time.....I sound very much like your father in temperament and personality (and my ADHD symptoms).
The thing we shared in common was the sports, hyperactive and extrovert....like you....and like me. I think this is a winning combination if you have ADHD. Finding something like your father and I found in the way of sports and exercise ( intense exercise!) is now what I feel I can say with more confidence....was the defining difference for me. Going along with my last comment about kids and ADHD....I just wanted to come here and repost what you said. I think everyone hear should read this if they haven't already. Like i said.....I recognize these qualities in myself and I think these are the difference between things going south in a hurry or not.
I also reread what you said about how your father affected you in less desirable ways since these have also been my bigger issues with my past relationships as well. Currently....I am also aware of this too. Thanks again for this back then and now.....it has brought me to understand my own pattern by seeing it in someone else....for better and for worse....for what it is worth:)
My dad: He is hyperactive (like me!) and extroverted. The most positive, happy person I know. Always good energy. Very high powered business man- well respected pillar of the community. Involved in everything.My dad is careful with money- but did have a few spectacular business failings in his 20's and 30's. Never angry or yelling. Not at all petty. Looks at everything optimistically. The most annoying symptom my dad has- has always been his inability to prioritize the family- because he just kind of follows the action- he is always looking for something stimulating to jump into. For example- he inadvertently scheduled a business meeting in the middle of my law school graduation (which was on the calendar for months). When I raised it with him, he wouldn't cancel the meeting because he didn't want to let anyone down (WTF about me, dad?). My parents have a traditional marriage where my mum is the homemaker. She and my dad had plenty of conflict when we were kids (I didn't see it- but that's what my mum says now). but now that the kids are grown and they are nearing retirement, the conflict is gone because my mum can do whatever she wants too! My dad is also more interested in family then he used to be. He is a great grandfather to my kids.
In summary- the majority of people posting here are non-adhd spouses. Mostly they are women dealing with a male spouse who has undiagnosed and/or untreated ADHD... so that's a different sample than if you had a group of people dealing with a spouse who had well-managed ADHD.
I think people with ADHD, when they end up in the right environment, can be absolute superstars... I am in the right job and feel like superwoman! It's just a good fit. I am happy every day at work. My dad is in a job like that too. However, when you see people with ADHD in a bad fit- you see really awful things happening. It sounds like you are one of the lucky ones who has manouvered yourself into a job that fits your skills and interests.
Thank you
J
I haven't been on this forum
Submitted by frustratedwife on
I haven't been on this forum for over a week so I just now read through all of the posts and wanted to thank everyone for their comments and shared experiences. I think what smilingagain said made a lot of sense:
"In summary- the majority of people posting here are non-adhd spouses. Mostly they are women dealing with a male spouse who has undiagnosed and/or untreated ADHD... so that's a different sample than if you had a group of people dealing with a spouse who had well-managed ADHD."
Maybe the picture would look much different for us if our spouse's were managing their ADHD. Mine acknowledges his and even admits some of the issues he deals with like procrastination, forgetfulness, time management and not following through. But what bothers me most is what appears to be laziness and lack of concern for our future. Maybe these traits are just part of who he is and not part of the ADHD, I don't know. But I do know I could have never sat back and watched my spouse almost work to death to support the family and not do anything about it.
I laughed (and i know it's not funny but...) at what Mapper said about paying for her husbands toys. I co-signed for a $24,000 motorcycle too and the payments were also $350 a month. And this was only one of many things he "had to have" and "would pay for himself". I always ended up paying because my credit was on the line. Well that was years ago and I learned my lesson! Now if he wants something he has to buy/qualify for it himself (which he can't so he has to go without). But in the beginning of our marriage he made me feel so guilty if I hesitated to do what he wanted. He said I didn't trust him or believe he would pay for these things. Well I knew nothing then about ADHD or what a poor provider he would be so I always gave in to him. It has caused me a lot of financial hardship and put a huge strain on our relationship. I won't let that happen again.
My husband started a new job this week. As always I don't count on the money but I'm hopefully this might be the one he sticks with. Without a second income we will continue to live month to month. I'm too old to live like that. I so desperately want a partner in life who will be responsible and want the same things as I do. But he is my husband so I either stick it out in the marriage and accept him for who he is or I can leave. Either way it's not easy.
I co-signed for a $24,000 motorcycle too and the payments were
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<< . I co-signed for a $24,000 motorcycle too and the payments were also $350 a month. And this was only one of many things he "had to have" and "would pay for himself". I always ended up paying because my credit was on the line. Well that was years ago and I learned my lesson! Now if he wants something he has to buy/qualify for it himself (which he can't so he has to go without). But in the beginning of our marriage he made me feel so guilty if I hesitated to do what he wanted. He said I didn't trust him or believe he would pay for these things. Well I knew nothing then about ADHD or what a poor provider he would be so I always gave in to him. <<
The "you don't trust me," claim seems to be a common theme. H has finally stopped saying that because he's failed at so many "trust me promises," that he knows that the words ring hollow. I have tried to "go along" with some "trust me promises" that won't hurt me or the family too much, just to let him "feel the failure" of his promises. I hope it helps him become more self-aware.
I also don't "sweep away" the failures so that he can easily erase them from his memory....which so many with ADHD or other issues seem to do.
My H used to say, "I never lose anything." He wanted this leather jacket several years ago. Luckily it wasn't crazy expensive (not cheap, but not too pricey). He promptly lost it. I gave him some expensive sunglasses that he wanted for his birthday...he lost them THE NEXT DAY! Those were such 'In his face" losses that he soon stopped making that "I don't lose things," claim.
Here's my Sunglass's story...
Submitted by c ur self on
My wife kept being jealous of my Costa's....(comments) So I surprised her on her birthday w/ a gift card for just the amount of Costa's....(First mistake)....So I kept asking her when are you going to get ur glasses...Come to find out she lost the gift card...So we finally found it....A month or so later, Lost it again....Found it.....Lost it again, this time it was gone...She hem hawed around and finally ask me if I would see if they would make it good....I dropped by on the way to the Gym one day....They girl called her Boss and he took my debt card number and tracked it and found where I had purchased it and made it good....This time I told her were going to get the glasses....So we spent about 2 hours in there, she tried them all on three times...LOL...bought the exact same glasses I have...She kept them about a mouth...I told her to leave them in her car never take them out of the car....(she has cheaper one's ) She went to visit her sister, laid them down somewhere and Gone....I haven't made an issue out of it....But, I will learn from it....First no more gift cards...Second...Buy things she can't carry off and lay down...:)
She's special:)
Jelouse or Envious C ?
Submitted by kellyj on
Either way.....I understand what you are saying. A lot has transpired since the day I drew the line and said...'enough is enough, you are being an abuser!"...and my wifes response to me was...".I hate your fucking guts!" Then we went to our T and I confessed all that was bad about me to him in front of her....to the point of playing on her sympathy for me when I did that. Her rescuer nature and feeling the need to "save" everyone is just this manifestation of the need to do this for herself when she was young and abused herself.
Since then....she has shared intimate details about things with me that fill in a lot of the blanks here and many ot the things she does now do seem to make more sense to me. Without her coming forward and being pretty self aware in this way herself.....I would never have known why she does some things and where these distortions come from in the first place. That's the thing about someone who is so deep in denial that they are completely blind to this a part of themselves and see themselves differently than everyone else does.
As is with your wife too.....she needs lots of affirmation and praise and is hypersentive to criticism and appearance from feelings of insecurity. These things do sound similar but not many of the other things you have said about your wife.
If I can offer you something here that is actually working (and did work with my wife).....is saying No by ways of invoking here sympathy....one of the languages she understands. But with a victim.....there is only one Queen in the hive so to speak. If you are competing for that slot with her.....there will be no sympathy and all she will do is try and compete with you and be adversarial since you are both competing for the same thing.
I had to take on a different role and come at my wife from that place in a more assertive position (outside of my nature) and then invoke her sympathy from that place instead. My wife seems to see victims everyone and feel sorry for people who she thinks needs her help even if they don't. For all the reasons I already said.....this is just her perception. I get that you wife has a similar problem in perhaps a different way. If she needs you to be her father and care givers which it sounds like might be the case.( not that she see's this of course....denial again) you need to step out of that role she keeps putting you into and take on a different role before she will listen to you or hear anything you have to say?
It does sound similar in that way and this is what I did to get her to hear me. It goes against my nature to take on this role but I have found that it has made a connection with her that was not there before. From that....she has begun to open up with me and actually explain these things to me her self without me saying them to her.
As much as I don't think that a person in denial really understands that they are lying at times. What I do know as fact from experience is that there are probably many things that you don't know about your wife and should consider that she knows the and is not telling you. If anything.....it sounds like there might be some sexual abuse or indiscretion related issues from her past that she has told you one thing in order to explain it....but the details and facts of this matter are probably quite a bit different. Different to the point that it could change how you see her which is what she is afraid of. The exposure of course. It might not change how you see her at all but it is how she will feel once you know....that self persecution and the children out of wed lok thing you mentioned possibly? That may just be the excuse or her reasoning as she has told you but I will bet it is not that and something a lot worse that she cannot admit to anyone including you and would shame her deeply to admit or even think about.
These are the kinds of things that my wife has shared more of and of course.....it doesn't faze me or change anything for me. Once she realized that she had nothing to fear with me....the fears are now being talked about instead of being buried and coming out all over the place like they were.
I cannot think after this experience with my wife and the things that you have said....that something along the lines of what I did might not work with you as well and change the dynamic of your relationship. He she see's you as her caregiver and rescuer (a father figure who will fix things for her) telling her no from that place will a rejection and abandonment in the same vein. If this is true....you need to change roles with her. She will keep applying everything she sees in this role or part she has you cast into and everything you say and do to confirm this will keep you there and perpetuate your situation.
I can't tell you what role she sees you in and only you know that one yourself.....but I do think if you can change hats and be different than yourself....step out of who your are and take on a different role with her and then say NO....no going there with you and enlist her sympathy from that place.....she won't feel like she has to compete with you and will see you differently along with everything you say from that point on. Just my experience relating it to you.
J
I'm not sure if her comments
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm not sure if her comments are from J or E :)...But it's common for her to want to get or take part in anything I do or have....It's typical co-dependent stuff....Like a kid...Do you remember when the candy bar didn't get divided exactly even in your opinion:) Control...I only trust myself to divide it....LOL...She most always checks out anything we divide to make sure she gets her fair share...It calls me on my selfish nature:)
We shared all the dirt own ourselves before we married...Big Mistake!...It was what we fought with the first 4 years....And where all the insecurities cropped up....Man God is good, we had a snow balls change in hell without him....
Blessings this fine day....
C
This Is Exactly the Kind of Thing
Submitted by kellyj on
I was sayng to you C. Cutting right to the chase here. My wife recently shared something that was really hard for her to say that explained this very thing to me. She was sexually molested by her biological father when she was sent to him by her mother so her mother could start a new relationship with yet....another boy friend. One of many. (errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) She told her mother of this and her mother did nothing . Her father and mother both came up with a brilliant solution. Ship her off to Alaska to a mining work camp for troubled teenager in an isolated controlled area. Brilliant good parenting on that one???? duh
Talk about denial, blame shifting and complete and utter dysfunction?
Anyway ....my wife said this " when something like that happens to you.....something is taken from you that can never be returned. It will make you protective and mistrusting in ways that are irrational and you cannot explain."
There you go.
J
Good with the Bad
Submitted by kellyj on
I appreciate the input to my question about ADHD men.....it did give me some of the perspective I was looking for and I thought I would share a couple thoughts I had. As I said in an earlier post...I'm on this forum for a reason and I'm kind'a on a mission of my own to see the things I'm missing about myself concerning my ADHD.....we are supposed to be really bad at seeing ourselves as others se us. To a certain degree, I know this is true from the feedback I've had through the years and is what I've been looking for when I read the posts spouses of husbands who have it....it's also why I was posted the question since I wasn't seeing what I was looking for. Having said that....I saw something else that now has me pondering. I'll just throw it out there and see where this goes?
First.......I want to say one thing as it pertains to my own experience growing up. Being the youngest and only boy in a female dominated family( dominated only in number...there was only one supreme being in our household and he..... was definitely not a she) I was for sure a novelty and quite entertaining I'm sure.....that's the good part of being a kid with ADHD. The bad part is really more important, but is also not one I like to look at too often but I know it's where my issues come from.
The problem with having ADHD is that it is not very well defined. If you were born without a left leg...no one would expect you to become a marathon runner (even though there are plenty of disabled people who do amazing things....Triathelons etc...) Even for the person who has it.....it's very unclear how to distinguish ADHD symptoms from ones that look just like them which may be caused by something else.......very confusing indeed...but I'm getting ahead of myself (ADHD?).....OK, back to the family thing..........
In our family, there was a fair amount of delusional magic thinking....and the King of the castle ruled with tyrannical authority with a less than subtle, no nonsense approach to the world. And when things didn't go according to his wishes.....out came the flame thrower and he would raise the room to the ground. Being a kid with ADHD meant having to move fast. It was a nightmare at times. The point I'm trying to make is that no one, including me.... saw my bouncing off the walls as anything but bad behavior and it was treated accordingly. This really starts you off at a distinct disadvantage in many respects not including the actual disadvantages of having ADHD in itself, specifically......a lot of misconceptions and beliefs about yourself that are not true or accurate. I'm still sorting these out to this day.
So when I read the behaviors of other people with ADHD.....it's often easy for me to understand just where these behaviors come from. Being sensitive to criticism, others people anger and negatively are big ones for me, along with a host of related issues that can be connected either directly or indirectly to ADHD symptoms. I say symptoms because that is what other people see. As far as I'm concerned....many of these symptom have little or no real negative impact to me directly other than how they effect others. I think this is where a lot of the "there's nothing wrong with me therefore....it must be you" statements come from.....and why we don't see how we appear to others at times. "Just fine thanks...what's your problem?" "Really? sounds like a personal problem." "My problem is you....in my face telling me I have a problem."......and so on
I'll continue this in a later post but I did want to throw out something about the apparent laziness thing...procrastination, not getting done what we say we're going to do (lying or intent?), getting side tracked into stimulating activities instead of taking care of responsibilities. I know this much.....I have to really make an effort to do some of the things I see others do with relative ease. Without over thinking things to much......this requires a lot of energy! The only way made it through school and to this day at work....is by taking a lot of breaks. Short breaks are all that are necessary and yes......it's during the breaks where I get side tracked...I've got to keep an eye on myself to keep from getting sidetracked so I can continue doing what I'm doing. Anything organizational takes lots of planning and strategizing ahead of time...and then the doing.......it's exhausting. This coming from someone who can ride a motorcycle for 12 hours and be ready for more. I don't get it even to this day.
I think depending on the individual, the amount of extra effort and energy it takes us ADHD'ers to do some of the things that those without can do in certain respects...can vary quite a bit. To put it simply....soemtimes it's hard....hard doesn't mean can't....just hard......and human nature is to avoid hard and go to the path of least resistance. I'm not making excuses but perhaps....stating a fact that might not be considered in all of this. If non ADHD people expect ADHD people to be the same as they are.....then they might not consider something that is easy to them as being hard to someone else. I'm just saying.
Hi. I'm just responding to
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Hi. I'm just responding to one thing now, because it's late here.
Please don't assume that things that are hard for people with ADHD are easy for people who don't have ADHD. Many mornings I get up and wonder how I can continue through another day.
I Understand
Submitted by kellyj on
This is the take off point that I see where the gap between people with ADHD and people without it begins. Before I say anything else, I want to say how difficult it is to read some of the posts here on this forum. Difficult for me, a ADHD male, divorced twice, who see's a fair amount of myself in all of them and to hear how much suffering we cause our partners sometimes even if it is not our intention. To be brutally honest with myself, I have to look back at times when I have been all of the husbands in these posts at one time or another in my own way......and I cannot look past how similar this group of behaviors are to one another....
"Smilingagain" made a good reference to this in her last post on this thread when she mentioned the "negative generalities" that are sometimes made about ADHD spouses (men in her reference).
My experience after I was diagnosed and started telling people I knew about my ADHD surprised me at first as far as their reactions were concerned. The overwhelming response to the specifics about my ADHD was either; "sounds like an excuse" or "everyone is ( we are all) like that." What surprised me even more was when I began to notice comments I had never heard before referring to me being "distracted" and assignments to lots of completely unrelated traits of mine to ADHD. I quickly learned why it is not always a good idea to tell people you have ADHD.....not out of any fear from any stigma or embarrassment....but more from all the incorrect assessments, mis-information and judgments that appeared to be quite consistent.
Having said this.......I cannot overlook the consistency of these comments across the board with a variety of people that I know or have had these conversations with.
This is where I think there is something missing ( this is where you say, "yes there is...and I think it's between your ears" lol ) But this really is where a great deal of learning and understanding needs to come from on both sides as well as a large dose of empathy at all times in either direction.
My personal feelings have always been that there was something wrong with me for years before being diagnosed so therfore...I need to work harder, be more understanding and find solutions to be more like everyone else instead feeling like everyone just has to just accept me this way like it or not. I think having this kind of attitude is imperative to making progress .
On the other hand, speaking for myself.....I literally have to ignore most if not all of the attitudes or opinions of others sometimes in order to stay positive and keep from getting depressed. This becomes an even bigger issue when it comes to the negative generalities that trigger my past and as a results, can go spiraling out of control very quickly sometimes. I can't imagine that on some level......anyone who has had a life experience with ADHD in it would not react in some very predictably similar ways depending on their own experience and temperament.
But I also realize that none of this has anything to do with anybody else and is mine alone to deal with. My job as far as anyone else is concerned is to find ways not to have my problems become theirs....that's why I'm here, to find more ways to do that:)
I do hope that all this rambling and brain storming can give someone else here something they are looking for. I know for me, simply reading these posts have given me a better feeling on what to look for in myself for things to improve on.
I really value your comments
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I really value your comments here. I actually think we're feeling and saying the same thing. I don't think you're making excuses but nor am I exaggerating when I say that life is a very big struggle for me more days than not.
I don't feel like everyone else. Then I remember that "everyone else" also has problems and that I should not assume that things are easier for them than they are for me.
Thank You
Submitted by kellyj on
We are all the captains of our own ships and that fact can be elusive at times. I find that laughing at yourself can be incredibly useful in snapping the negative spell we cast on ourselves. There is lots of beauty in the world and things to be thankful for if you simply look for them. It's too easy not to when we forget to do it:)
Rosered....When I feel overwhelmed...
Submitted by c ur self on
When life overwhelms me...when I'm in need of some self help, some times I look deep inside me for innocent things to relate to, memory's from my youth or I just create my own Dajavue in a sense...I close my eyes and think of things like a cold winter night with all the stars bright....Christmas lights in window's a blanket of snow and I can just smell the clear cool freshness of the air and sense the perfection and beauty of the moment...It takes my burden's for a bit, it makes me smile...:)
Am I loosing it...LOL...
jjamieson...terrific insight
Submitted by dedelight4 on
jjamieson: I love your posts. These glances into your life are SO FULL of information and so incredibly insightful. I do think you are different than many others who have this condition, and I sincerely applaud your efforts. You are right that there are many of us on this site who have spouses (mainly men) that won't look at their ADHD and/or work with it. My husband wants to take his Concerta, but doesn't want to discuss ANY issues concerning ADHD. I really wish he would, because we could certainly come to some better understanding with certain "vital" issues in our relationship. Recently he told me "I knew I did things wrong in the past, but I've changed those things now, and it's not a problem any longer". Like he HAD adhd, but now it's dealt with and it's over. We ALL know that that isn't true, because no one ever gets "over" their adhd. And, there was no appreciation from him for me having to deal with the challenging behaviors and habits from the 20 some odd years of undiagnosed ADHD. He only wants me to forget it and go on, with NO DISCUSSION of HOW I should go about learning to live with him......better and more productively.
My husband is a very hard worker.He has always had a job, and more often than not 2 or 3 jobs at once, and in this way, HE is different than many other men with ADHD here. He has a PhD in music.....but actually making a good living in music in NOT easy........even for those WITHOUT ADHD. He has provided for our family pretty well, except for the many decisions that have cost us thousands and thousands of dollars. Those decisions were usually spur of the moment, or decisions that he refused to discuss with me. He brings in the major money, so he feels he has the right to have the MOST say in our lives. He hasn't learned from many of his decisions, and he also has had a VERY difficult time understanding "promoting himself".....as well as "getting along with his superiors". He gets along with the people in his current job, but that hasn't always been the case. He DOES have a tendency to be very defiant, including being defiant with me, and it's hurtful to me, so I KNOW it's caused him problems at work. The ADHD sometimes causes him to ACT in a way that also seems defiant when he tells me he is not, but it sure FEELS that way.
I do apologize to you, if any of my posts made you feel bad. They are NOT in any way, shape or form, meant to hurt anyone. It's only my way of venting, and this is the only place I can vent openly. I don't do this with my close family, because of the problems it causes. And, I don't want to put any further burden on them either. This is the ONLY place where I get feedback from ALL sides, and it's been SO HELPFUL.
I hope you keep telling us about your life, because it's enlightening for those of us who don't get to have that option in our own homes. This goes for the rest of those here who write about having ADHD and those who live with, and love them.
Can they keep a job?
Submitted by Yours truly in ... on
All I want to know is how do they keep a job when everything takes forever and they obsess over dealing with more than one thing at a time? We have no retirement and he is just about to be hired to a new job. Help!!!!
I don't know...
Submitted by frustratedwife on
I don't know the answer to that question about keeping a job. I'm still waiting to see my husband find a job he will keep. I'm going to start a different thread on this subject...
Working towards success....
Submitted by froggie on
I HEAR YA on all of this!! Its like reading my own story (as many others have said). I have found much success in taking the reigns and forcing him to take responsibility, and reminding him every.single.time he fucks up.
im disabled with a small child and life is rough lemme just tell ya.. I cant walk at all.
If he doesnt do something, I remind him of how disappointed I am, i dont tolerate his outbursts or interruptions and if he interrupts me i say, loudly " I AM SPEAKING,AND WHEN I AM SPEAKING YOU ARE NOT. IT IS CALLED BASIC RESPECT, AND YOU WILL LEARN IT". And i repeat this exact sentance like a mantra to him, its called repitition I believe and a lot of the techniques i use with him are from the american DODs interrogation handbook and also the persuasion handbook (i believe this was a CIA issued one I have) You might want to check them out, theyve helped me stay calm when he acts like a fool and know what to say and how to act.
as harsh as it sounds, this method has worked well. Personal responsibility for these add/adhd men is like a completely foreign concept so it takes some time, but i find that he responds well to repetitive reminders and slowwwwly it starts to change.
When he claims to be doing so much, I remind him that he is NOT, and that he is failing. When he does something right i give him little to no priase for it, and I tell him he should praise himself and feel pride that hes done the job well and I remind him that my praise and others is completely worthless.
Theyre all about themselves right? SO the best way to make them improve is to make them their own minders, the improvement comes form within.
I am RELENTLESS in my efforts. NOTHING slides past me. Nothing. I dont except mediocrity from him, and with things like cleaning the kitchen (which my god...he used to only load a few dishes that were right in front of his face, leave everything else a mess and say he was done...) has gotten to the point now that HE is disappointed with himself when he misses even a small spot on the countertop that he forgot to whipe.
Ive used his own obsessive nature and focus against him, well not against him but to help him improve himself. Hes not totally better, but I am working towards making him autonomous and self reliant and self sufficient. The small talks (when i can get him to focus) really help too. "your a grown man, this is what you said when I asked you a simple question:______, now, was that, in your opinion, and appropriate response and why?"
The self exploration for him has really of all things seemed to help the most. When he is forced to look at himself and his actions its seems a small lightbulb turns on.
I feel your pain, best way to cope is to not give up and be obsessive with the reminders and most of all teaching respect and self discipline and that there are no rewards for anything. EVER. The less he feels entitled to praise or a reward from an external source, the less he whines and expects it.
In the beginning of our marriage we argued constantly and I wanted to kill him because with these guys it seems like a hopeless uphill battle...or it can seem that way.
Let me just tell you all, theres HOPE. He is an ADD/Aspie with insomnia and anxiey disorder, the worst of all combos. But over the years I have watched him go from a whiny little pissy pants man child, to the man I have always wanted. He will always be who he is, but now i dont want to vomit when hes around or smack him across the face. READ thre DOD interrogation manuals and the lot, they help.!
BRAVO! Boot camp!
Submitted by ChrisChris on
The no-excuses boot camp approach is rarely talked about here. I love your "doing a god job is its own reward" attitude and I'm so glad to hear how things are improving. BRAVO!
The "Art of War "...Taking the Bull by the Horns
Submitted by kellyj on
I agree CC....this is the approach that will work. This is becoming proactive for yourself (loving yourself first)........and then taking the bull by the horns as they say. Read what I said about becoming a leader in my last post in this thread. To become a leader for someone else....you have to become a leader for yourself. This....coming from the most reluctant leader on the planet......ME!
The enemy here is not the person with ADHD....the enemy is the enemy within.....the ADHD itself. I have also used these same philosophies to help me in order do this for myself first as I said. Once you can do this for yourself.....you can do this with other people.
There was no greater war leader and strategist than Chinese military general Sun Tzu. His philosophy on how to be a great leader and ensure you win in work, management, and life is summed up in these 33 pieces of advice. ( taken from Forbes magazine ) They can all be applied here in context.....to yourself and to ADHD itself. A person may not be able to help that they have ADHD.....but you can do something about it and control it in order to manage it better. No one is perfect but perfection is not the goal here.....just being as close to normal as you can. That isn't such a lofty goal if you think about it. If you see it from this approach and you are with someone who has ADHD who has not been able to deal with or manage their own ADHD symptoms and this is effecting you and your marriage, you do not have to sit idly by and be a victim to these symptoms which are the real enemy here and what you see. Treating the symptoms as such and approaching in this way.....you are taking charge of them and treating them like an unwelcome house guest who has outstayed their welcome.
The ADHD is the thing that lies, deceives, causes havoc in your household and creates chaos in your marriage. It's doing the same thing to you as it is doing to the person who has it.
Time to get pissed and go to boot camp girls.......be the leader of your own destiny and go to town on your H's ADHD. This is exactly the same attitude I use on myself and it works. If he hasn't learned how to do this.....you can teach him by doing this for him. This is not being a nagging victim who is passive....this is being a strong assertive leader with a no holds barred attitude who has stopped chasing the dragons tail and has met the enemy head on.
Froggie...whether she realized it or not....has done this very thing for herself, her H and her relationship all at the same time. That's why this works
written over 2,500 years ago by Sun Tzu, The Art of War. It's the foundation for martial arts, and the balance (the ying and yang philosophy) of mind, body and spirit.
edited in parenthesis for context by me:)
A leader leads by example, not by force.
You have to believe in yourself.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ( this is the primary Tennant for all others to follow....physical aggression is always the last and only options if all else fails. In this case with your marriage.....leaving would be your final and only option if all else fails and the battle is lost)
Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.( win the war of attrition and steadfastness first.....be stubborn in your resolve)
If the mind is willing, the flesh could go on and on without many things. (mind over matter.....and willingness to endure pain)
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. (be strong with a positive attitude)
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy. (focus...be the ball)
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.( stand your ground...don't withdraw and retreat)
Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.
If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him.
Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?
Even the finest sword plunged into salt water will eventually rust.
Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate. (timing is everything)
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.
If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory:
1 He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
2 He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces.
3 He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.
4 He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
5 He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign.
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate.
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
There are not more than five musical notes, yet the combinations of these five give rise to more melodies than can ever be heard.There are not more than five primary colors, yet in combination they produce more hues than can ever been seen.There are not more than five cardinal tastes, yet combinations of them yield more flavors than can ever be tasted.
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
When the enemy is relaxed, make them toil. When full, starve them. When settled, make them move.
Know yourself and you will win all battles.
Move swift as the Wind and closely-formed as the Wood. Attack like the Fire and be still as the Mountain.
When strong, avoid them. If of high morale, depress them. Seem humble to fill them with conceit. If at ease, exhaust them. If united, separate them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.
All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
There is no instance of a (marriage) having benefited from prolonged warfare.
The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.
Treat your (husband) as you would your self. And they will follow you into the deepest valley. (you H is this case
Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.
When you surround an army, leave an outlet free.
Do not press a desperate foe too hard.
Take my advise here....it works!
J
I sure hope you divorced him
Submitted by cjbird on
This guy needs to be out on his own like yesterday. I sure hope you've divorced him by now.
It's not that simple
Submitted by frustratedwife on
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. If I divorce him he would get half of everything which was all mine before we married. He would get half of my house that I purchased 4 years before we met. I can't afford to pay him his half of the equity so I would be forced to sell and wouldn't be able to buy another home so I'd have to find a place to rent. He could also ask for alimony since I've been the breadwinner during our marriage, I'm barely making enough money to survive so I wouldn't make it if I had to pay him monthly. I'm trapped.
Hi laurie
Submitted by kellyj on
I spotted your comments and went to this post again. I'm spread out all over it and made my comments when I first came to this forum so I don't need to add anything there. It was interesting to read what I said at the time compared to now......a lot has changed in my life since then but the things I said are no different in how I feel right now.....whew! At least I didn't say anything I would regret. lol
The only thing that is different is having to think about these things much longer. What has changed is only having a firmer idea of why I said them and being able to articulate them more assertively which comes from what has transpired in between then and now between my wife and I....plus.....I think I have narrowed down the things that I believe are ADHD related and what are not and have answered these questions for myself a little better than before. Taking all things in consideration (everything I have already said) plus my own experience in the past (my entire history fro start to finish....finish at this point right now).....I have some things to offer you in things you just said to consider and think about here........
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Less obvious to everyone else and only you know why this is. If it was that easy.....you wouldn't be here in the first place. There are no easy solutions.....only compromises. The question you should be asking yourself right now is......am I right in my assumptions in the first place?
I can't afford to pay him his half of the equity so I would be forced to sell and wouldn't be able to buy another home so I'd have to find a place to rent.
Which is worse? Living the way you are now or a different alternative? Do you know this as fact or are you making some assumptions based on your fears? Have you researched and asked an objective expert or are you listening to your friends and other people who are telling you these things? What other possibilities have you not explored because you haven't continued to look? Are you catastrophizing the worst possible scenario and using that as your basis for all your worst fears? What would you do if you found out another alternative that is not quite as bad as the ones you believe will happen? Is the fear of the unknown the thing that is keeping you from looking any further or exploring more options? Are you more afraid of giving up what you have (what little you do have now) and trading that for what you could have that might be better......possibly sooooooo much better? But you won't know that until you get there to know if that is what is possible?
How much is your quality of life worth ( your self worth and living a life without this much pain and suffering?)
He could also ask for alimony since I've been the breadwinner during our marriage, I'm barely making enough money to survive so I wouldn't make it if I had to pay him monthly. I'm trapped.
Are you really? or are you trapped in believing and predicting what you just said will actually happen just the way you said? Have you actually asked a lawyer who deals with this kind of scenario everyday and had him/her tell you for sure that everything that you think is true really is? Who will tell you what all your options are who might know or some more that you haven't thought of yet? In other words......do you know the law and what is likely to happen in the real world or just what you know of the law and how you interpret it to be.
If this is what you are afraid of.....then you need to answer these questions first.....for sure. If there are children involved and you are the breadwinner.....children's needs usually take precedence all things considered.
Is he on the title? If not....you own the house. It's yours even when you get divorced. You might owe him money....but they will not put you out in the street. They will not impose and alimony payment that you cannot afford. It may be divided over years to the point that you might die before you pay it all....but the law protects your right to live, eat, have shelter and pay for the basics and will not put you in a situation that would comprise this for you. If you are already living and supporting him and barely making enough to survive.....you won't be any worse off than you are now and have nothing to lose. You can't squeeze blood out of a Turnip as they say. You will likely end up better off than you are now since the only thing you will be paying is a fixed monthly payment that will be within your means.....one you can count on and will not change for the life of the settlement until paid off but more importantly.....you will be no longer responsible for anyone but yourself and that will all be up to you at that point. Nothing he does will ever affect you again financially and you will know exactly what that is and not incur any new debt from him in the future. You no longer will be trapped or made responsible for anything he does and keep every dollar that you earn from then on out in the future. What is your own peace of mind and sanity worth in dollars and cents?
The goal in all fairness....is to put you back as close to you were before you were married (10 years of less) if that is at all possible. Beyond 10 years it becomes more ambiguous but still favoring the person that contributed most into the marriage but still looking at the ability for each person to live separately on their own and make a living. What they won't do is see a dead beat and feel an obligation to maintain that status just because they were this way in a marriage. You have no legal ground or argument to give that will convince anyone of that. Period!
In the real world.....a woman or man who has a dependent (child) to take care of will get the benefit of the doubt for that reason only.....not because either one hasn't worked and is entitled to stay that way if they are capable of earning a living unless they can prove otherwise. Proving otherwise will require more than just a persons word in this case. They want verifiable facts, figures, dates, who , when , where, how and any other tangible non emotional data in support of this. (well documented paper trail with supporting evidence by approved expert sources. Period.
Our legal system hates punitive damages (emotional abuse and psychological damages) and shy's away from physiological/emotional issues like the plague. The eyes of justice (like the scales held by a blind-folded figure) tend to be blind to these things as well. It's a tough one to argue in court and usually is a losing battle unless you have a lot of money to use to fight this kind of legal battle. No money....no fight. The laws and legal protections..... sometimes as much as it is not always fair....are for those who can afford it. This can be a double edged sword and can favor you as much as it can work against you
That's reality in the real world from my own experience with it. No proof.....no gimmes. Just like Taxes.
Not to belabor this for you and getting back to the question.....are you sure you have no other options? I'm saying this fro experience. Sometimes the source for most of what you are feeling and feeling helpless in itself is your own inability to see options and have choices. Once you get past that and see that you have more than just one or two.....things become more clear and easy to see.
And sometimes what you thought at the time was based more on fear than reality. Sometimes when you forced to face your fears and experience the thing you were afraid of most....you find it was not nearly as bad as staying where you were thinking that it was better than what you feared? And sometimes without all that fear of the future and finding out the facts and what is real......you may find that you like just where you are but without all that anxiety and fear surrounding it and you will no longer feel trapped when you choose to stay instend or it not being your choice under the exact same conditions. The only thing that has changed is how you see it and feel about it when that happens.
I have lived this and experienced this exact same thing ( on more than one occasion ) and could shoot myself in the head for not doing things sooner out being afraid of looking at the thing that you don't want to face or look at. The clarity and peace of mind that you have and the quality of life you experience from doing this far exceeds your wildest imagination to the contrary in my own experience with this in every positive way I can imagine.
What feels like death is life without joy and stagnation. What feels like life is moving forward and continued growth and learning as an individual. Doing nothing and fearing pain is like death. Doing something and experiencing pain is growing and moving forward no matter what set backs put you back as you are doing it.
Most successful individuals will all have a string of failures behind them that you may not always see but they are almost always there. Winning the lottery is less likely than getting hit by lighting several times or more, and luck and fate have little or nothing to do with it. Fear of failure and of the future will keep a person from moving and trying something ( doing nothing ) and tends to make you settle for less ( which is the same as settling for the same.....nothing) compared to what is possible if you don't try and not being able to accept losing something first.
That's the comprise you have to choose here. As I stated over a year and a half ago in this same thread.....the the most valuable thing I ever learned from competing in sports is..... how to lose and then pick yourself up and keep on moving forward anyway. By putting my fears aside and repeating it again along with the pain that comes along with it each time you do....the easier it is to do and the better you become at doing it. Eventually.....every successful person will get this right after enough tries if you can summon the courage and find the strength that everyone has the potential for.
Even a blind pig will find and acorn once in a while:).......going along with one of my favorite song quotes " I want the most but I'll take the least" At least.....that's the concept. lol
J
Thanks J
Submitted by frustratedwife on
Thanks J, you have given me a lot to think about. I can't say fear doesn't play a factor in my decisions. And I think we get comfortable, even in a bad situation, and it makes it harder to walk away.
This is my second marriage, probably another reason decisions are hard to make (another failure). I consulted an attorney for the first divorce so I was going by what I learned then in regards to property and alimony. My ex had always been the breadwinner and yet when I left after he refused to get help for his drug abuse (I was in fear for my safety) he fell apart and quit his job so my lawyer told me he could actually get money from me even though I had been supported by him for almost 19 years (and worked for his company for no pay). So my assumption, and I guess I shouldn't ASSume, was that this husband would be just as entitled since I have been the breadwinner for almost the entire marriage. But you are right, I would probably be out less money with an alimony payment than I am in the current situation where I'm supporting him so I thank you for pointing that out.
There are no children involved. I have no kids and he has grown children from his first marriage so I'm thankful that isn't a factor.
I'm very angry but probably more at myself than I am at him. It's hard to work through my emotions right now but I need to start moving forward because I've felt trapped and stagnant for so long. I know I've become difficult to live with because of my unhappiness and resentfulness.
I've Been Where You Are...
Submitted by kellyj on
in y second marriage also. Most of what I said came from that experience and being more afraid of failure (a 2nd time) than it was the first time. I felt like the first time really had to do with my choices more than it had to do with me (legitimately not knowing I had ADHD and I was young) Thinking now it was at least 50/50 to say the least.....but fearing that would destine me to be doomed if I failed again. As I described.....none of that was true. I only learned from my mistakes and was less afraid than more. I also wasn't assuming you hadn't talked to a lawyer but more playing devils advocate which was what I was saying you should to do with yourself.
One thing to add to this on his side of things.....sometimes you need a wake up call to get you moving (for him). Not saying you leave necessarily....but the real fear of that could shake things up a bit. Only you would know how to do that? I'm glad what I said helped give you some perspective:)
j
Please speak with an attorney
Submitted by cjbird on
I don't think that property you owned before the marriage is considered community property! Please get your friends and loved ones to rally and provide written testimonies of what they've observed as this man has systematically used you, exhausts your resources and contributes ZERO to the marriage or household. THAT IS ABUSE under no uncertain terms!!! This man would find himself 'miraculously cured' or have to resort to getting on disability if a doctor buys this B.S. ADHD and actually hands him a diagnosis for SSI benefits like every other person who is on the dole but is perfectly able bodied and minded to work but CHOOSES NOT TO- because of enabling spouses OR the SYSTEM.
What you need to do is quit working, claim a disability, and watch what the bastard does.
Ditto ditto ditto
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
As I walked to my car this morning, knowing that my husband was cozy in bed since he sleeps in every morning and works in the afternoon, I realized that the chore I gave him yesterday won't get done. I asked him to wipe down cabinets with bleach since his morning smoothies are splattering on them. Nice beet juice drippings. The clothes I washed (his only) won't be folded or put away. The toilet won't be wiped down even though to the normal eye, it needs to be. I decided to pretend I am single and he is not living in the house anymore. I talked to myself and said that I would have to do all these things if I were single. I won't nag, I will not view things as an emergency anymore. I used to be a clean freak but now I am always fatigued and I know its from stress and depression. So I will do what I can in the home. He does not care if the house is less than tidy since he was raised in a dirty home, I was not. So I have to clean to my satisfaction. He can walk on a dirty & sticky kitchen floor, I can not. He doesn't find what I do important. So really, I can't force him to or expect him to ever be like me. Fair? Hell no. Reality, hell yes. These marriages are not normal. We see each other 2-3 hours a day since he works afternoon to evening and I go to bed at 10 and he stays up til 2 or 3 am. That used to piss me off but now I calculate how many hours I have by myself at home so I can have peace and get things done before the F5 tornado, hoarder, Eor comes home to tell me all the horrible things that happened in his day or how awesome someone thought he was. Never mind my day. I find peace in my solitude and the house, if a bit messy, is ok. I can't control his sloppiness, hoarding behavior, I can only control myself. I clean up my bathroom and its beautiful. I know I deserve the credit. Same with gifts. I tell him I would love this CZ Sterling eternity band I saw for $16 and he looks at it and says, "That's nice!" and proceeds to play his video game. WAKE UP, it will never be about you. I bought it today because I work, I love myself more than he can ever SAY or SHOW he does. He sincerely says he loves me but he does not speak my language of love. And forget complaining about him not contributing to the housework. The famous last words, "If you aks me to do something I will. You know my brain isn't wired that way." So I have to tell you to clean toilets, mop floors, clean beet juice off cabinets, fix the doorway that has exposed sheet rock and drywall that YOU busted up to get the new fridge in. Those things could be like that for YEARS!! I just quietly do it myself, leave him a note and see how long it takes or hire someone to do it. Yes, this is it. Exasperating until you decide to see yourself as single. Less energy expended and no expectations. For me, living with a person with ADHD (bipolar, Aspergers- I think he has these also) is like living with a thoughtless, deaf, blind, man-child with no emotions, unless of course he is trying to impress someone for adulation and accolades. Not me. All he does is give me bill money, sleeps in, procrastinates, tells me he loves me, and go to bed at 3AM watching tv and playing video games. If I asked him what I can't live without if he died he would say that he loves me SOOOO much. But What else? They forget that we can be loved and SHOWN that by a lot of other people. But they ARE in a comfort zone, cemented like that mosquito in amber rock, never changing. Shame but we must not die because of it. We still are human and can forge ahead. we still have a life to live. They will be just fine sitting in front of the tv where we leave them. Same place when we get back. Do they ever notice how long you are gone? Nope. Let's get a grip- this ain't going nowhere.
What Else?
Submitted by kellyj on
Exasperating until you decide to see yourself as single. Less energy expended and no expectations. For me, living with a person with ADHD (bipolar, Aspergers- I think he has these also) is like living with a thoughtless, deaf, blind, man-child with no emotions, unless of course he is trying to impress someone for adulation and accolades. Not me. All he does is give me bill money, sleeps in, procrastinates, tells me he loves me, and go to bed at 3AM watching tv and playing video games. If I asked him what I can't live without if he died he would say that he loves me SOOOO much. But What else?
What else? Anything you want. You can choose to stay where you are and leave it at that or you can do something different. You can choose to see him differently than you do now. I love you soooooo much is all he has to give you....but if you understand his language....he's saying that he doesn't know how? By stepping outside of the wife and mother (if that applies) and seeing as yourself as single.....you just changed roles and that is your first step forward. Now where do you go? That's where you are now and you can go anywhere you want. You always have been able to do this whether you realized this or not. If you leave you can follow your own path and stay the same as you are now. If you stay....you can recreate who you are into something different that is much harder to do. If you stay and decide that this is your choice, you are no longer a victim to anything he does. You can transform your marriage and how you see him and yourself into someone that you love.....a chance to be the person you always dreamed you could be and find your inner strength that will transcend anything you thought was possible. You can be a super-woman and nothing your H will affect you and change how much you love yourself and take care of yourself and at the same time....take care of someone who cannot do this for themselves because they are afraid or does not know how to be any different?
By doing this.....you are no longer a wife but become a leader. That's the role you can choose to be. When you do this....the resentment disappears. You don't have to give up yourself at all. You can take care of yourself and all of your needs and have some left over for everyone else including your H. By loving yourself that much....you are doing it for him too. He has a choice. Learn grow and follow your strength that you have now set by example. Or stay the same and not follow you on your new path.
If he fears losing you and being abandoned......you will have set the example for him to model you after and follow behind you. When you are presented with only one choice with a gun to your head. You will choose to live but resent the person who does this too. If you are given the choice to follow someone you admire and has that much forgiveness and love in their heart....you can summon the same kind of strength from the same place in order to be with them and not lose such a gift.
I think many women don't consider that they can change to a role they have not considered before. They are waiting for their husbands to fill that role for them and if they can't.....this would be a strange and unfamiliar position to be in. If you choose to take on this role of the head of the family and become the leader by choice.....you might find a part of yourself that you never knew even existed. A place of strength instead of weakness. If you can do this for yourself first.....you will find you can do it for other people to without any effort.
That's what else......you just haven't taken the next step yet and are still wondering where to go with your new found freedom?
You were after all.....born into this world alone and you will leave the same way:)
J
J!!!! OMG, that was AMAZING!
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
J!!!! OMG, that was AMAZING! I read it twice, once yesterday and then once this AM and I am printing it out to keep with me. Thank you. Basically you are saying that the world is my oyster if I leave (which I did for a month and he was a brat, angry and never chased me) or stay, I have power. I have these moments of strength, then relapse because there is such a role reversal and its not fair. But you are right! I am still young (43) and should set the example by getting on with MY goals no matter what he chooses to do or not do. No one gets married because they want to feel single yet do it all and be all to a person that has issues. However, this is the path and I can choose to crawl or walk with my shoulders back and with purpose or run.
Thank you.
Your Welccome
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm glad that helps. FYI....just so you know. I wrote that with myself in mind as much as it was for you. This in reality.....is the attitude I have taken on for myself and my marriage and is not just a bunch of talk.
Read what I just wrote as a compliment to this and what Froggie had written earlier. Being assertive and proactive in all things including your H will only make you feel good and pull yourself out of those weak moments and give you a goal to set your mind too. That's really what this is all about. You can't change your H.......but you can effect change by changing yourself. (that's when you become a leader instead of a follower and a victim) All he can do is follow you if that's the case unless he wants something else instead. That's his choice but you won't know what that is until you get to that bridge however..... you shouldn't stop and not cross it just because he doesn't. You won't know that until you try and keep moving forward. That's really all you can do but it's better than doing nothing which you have already discovered by doing what have done already. Keep moving and don't stop. You don't have to wait for anyone but yourself for that:)
J
The Art of War sits in our
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
The Art of War sits in our bathroom, compliments of the H. I will read it. I can usually be this strong and proactive, just have to learn how to deal with the relapses when I become the sensitive woman that wants to be nurtured. Blast her. Haha! Again, thank you. I will forge ahead!
Balance In All Things
Submitted by kellyj on
This is the the thing they teach you when you take martial arts.....mind, body and spirit. You have to maintain balance in all things in order to succeed at anything. You can be the sensitive woman that needs to be nurtured and still be the assertive leader at the same time.....in the essence of what this is saying....you have to do both at the same time...not one at the exclusion of the other. Denying one part in exclusion of the other IS denial by definition. That's the tricky part....it ain't easy! lol
J
Remember J's rule number 1...
Submitted by c ur self on
Yes, it's not a battle unless I engage and make it one...I can smile and love her, and walk away when and if I need to. Her living of life is not about me....And Yes Notgonnaloosemyself....We can have a life:)
notgoingtoloosemyself....
Submitted by c ur self on
I've married his twin sister....Just don't get the bill money....If I got as much love action as I get verbal's, and text's...I wouldn't have time to type a post....She like's beets in her smoothie's also...that purple juice sure can stain a counter top can't it....LOL....
You are just hilarious! I
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
You are just hilarious! I love all of you guys! I so wish we could sit at a round table and break bread! That would be fun. BTW, he bleached that counters yesterday. No more beet juice on them...until the next time. Yesterday was interesting. Our last words were at 7:30 AM and nothing more until he got home from work (he works 1PM-7:30) at 10:30 PM. No call no response to my "have a nice day" text at noon. So irritating. You feel ignored, invisible and not important. I kept wondering what he would do if I never made it home because of an accident and he just then found out at 10:30 when he saw I wasn't home. But as I suspected, he walked in "Hey honey bear. I am home. How was your day?" Then when he saw I was not good he apologized for being late since he was working late and then sat at the edge of the bed for 45 minutes just staring into "I suck oblivion". We just had this discussion the other day about how it feels to a normal person when you just work and sleep with nothing in between. But hey, this is why I must be self-assured.
Hey...were all Normal...There's just many different Normals....
Submitted by c ur self on
Yeah, I hear you NGLM...If I can ever just master not measuring her way of living, by what I call my rational thinking...Rule # 1 THEY WILL NEVER MATCH UP;)...It's always my mind that haunts me....I guess what I'm so afraid of is if I just got so indifferent toward her way of living that I never concerned myself with any of it....We would both just disappear...LOL...But, that's kind of my goal....Let the chips fall...relax, don't help where I'm not wanted, and what ever I do, Never try to press into a closed mind!
When someone looks at you and says everything they do is right, thought out, and God approved....You just got to believe it or leave:)....To dispute that kind of Denial will only send you to an emotional hell.....
C
Life is Not a "0" Sum Game
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to expand of everything that you and I have said (and in this thread) and boil it all down for you....
Balance, Art of War, right and wrong, reward and punishment, rules. laws, marriage...ADHD. It's not a 0 sum game. It will never end up being 0 at the end of the day....
More.....life isn't fair...... to each his/her own. It's not a game....it's reality. These are just rules or means to try and make it as fair and balanced as possible but the reality of the world we live in and in our own personal lives....it is not possible to end up with a balance sheet that ends up at even all the time. Best hope is for something close but without any realistic chance that it will ever be that way....ever!
These constructs that we are taught as a moral and social and personal guide to live by are just that.....a guide to use and help us get as close as possible. And before anyone throws out the extreme obvious like murder or the ridiculous here in an attempt to refute what I am saying.....I think it is too easy to get the idea that these things that we use to guide us are there for the very reason that we all need something to shoot for as a goal which is get as close as you can. That's all.
It doesn't mean that if you aren't always there (at 0 )....that there is something wrong. What is wrong is that expectation and the confusion that these guides or means to help us get there are somehow set in stone and if you don't and aren't perfect then there's a problem.....especially when some people get closer to perfection than others and use that to say what is wrong with everyone else.
At work....you have to live by these rules or constructs or you would have chaos. Same as driving down the road, government, school. the legal system, taxes......are all necessary and some are more than just guides but laws because they become so important for other peoples safety or the well fare of society and everyone in it.....
But they are still constructs that are designed as a guide to live by. If you follow them closely enough....you will not run into problems. If you put it in terms of the 0 sum game....it is still a "game" or set of rules that you must follow for an end result or preventative measure.
Life, marriage and people are not a "game".....but a "0" sum "game" IS. If you are applying this kind of thinking to people and to a couple in a relationship....it is not a game and these rules do not apply. It never ends up at 0 on the balance sheet or scales and never will. This is not realistic and and unreasonable expectation.
If you are doing this in a marriage and trying to apply these same constructs to them and expecting a 0 result then you will fail to ever be happy or satisfied since your goal is not a possible one to begin with.
If you aren't doing this and have no rules or guides to follow.....you will also fail since you need some and you will never be happy or satisfied.
In order not fail.....each person needs to communicate clearly what rules they personally need in order to be a happy fulfilled person and communicate those their partner so they can do this very thing with them so they can sit down together and compromise between these differences and create clear and defined (constructs or boundaries) and then proceed according. That is....as a guide to shoot for but all the time knowing that perfection or the ledger sheet will never end up at 0.
This is why we fail because no one does this. We default to the things we learn or are taught and try and apply this (stupidly) to other people and then point the finger when they don't live up to these misplaced and contrived means to measure how well we're doing?
If you are comparing apples to oranges.....your pie is going to be wrong every time you make these kinds of substitutions in your head and that is not anyone else's problem except for your own if this is what you are doing.
If you want to test to see how open minded you are about something.....think about what I just said and see if you aren't doing this very thing with your spouse? If that's the case.....maybe a different set of rules are in order which would require you to make up some of your own and then tell the other person if you don't have ones that someone else has made up for you.
Aside from the obvious and the ridiculous to argue (the ones like stealing, murder cheating and so forth). Religions and spiritual recourses are good resources for those and are not what I'm talking about. It everything else and in between that are the ones that we are free to choose how we want things for our selves. Even we can't get to a "0" sum for those on our end in our lives so if that is the case.....why on earth would we think or entertain that this is possible for anyone else? And then get angry at other people that they haven't lives up to them? And which one's are those in the first place?
If you can't answer these questions for you and only yourself in a way that you can explain this clearly to another person so they can understand. That is why you fail and the failure in this case is all on you.
To each their own. It's not a "0" sum game and it never was. Some food for thought:)
J
Going overboard
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
This comment was flagged and I have to say I agree. We have some posting rules about gross generalizations -please see below.
Melissa
Are you married to my husband?
Submitted by mandyc on
WOW - can I ever relate! Excuses - tons of them. This hurts, that hurts and he has no injury - except the one he thinks he has to get out of helping out. He is up all night watching tons of movies then sleeps most of the day - even on his night off work. He works shift work so it is rare I see him awake. When I do, I pray that he goes back to bed because he is unbearable to deal with. Everything is my fault - all the time. Even if I haven't been home all day. He works full time and I am very grateful for the financial support while I finish my degree but emotionally I am dying inside. I often feel terrible that I want to leave because of his ADD but he won't get help - why do I stay? I actually left once but just ended up back in the same situation. I wish I had some great advice that would change your life forever but unfortunately I don't. But I do help you find solace in knowing you are not alone in this. Trust and take care of yourself. We all have to find out way in this life - and if it is easy chances are it isn't the right way, if it is the right way I guarantee you there will be difficulty - the only way we grow, right?
"We all have to find out way
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
"We all have to find out way in this life - and if it is easy chances are it isn't the right way, if it is the right way I guarantee you there will be difficulty - the only way we grow, right? "
That is some TRUTH right there. Unfortunately, my H thinks if something is hard - then it means its not right. he is for sure one to find the easiest path everytime. The easy path doesnt lead to anything worth while, or great. It only leads to bland, dull, loneliness. Believe it or not - i think SOME of the ADHD folks think that loneliness is preferable to any sort of work. Sad.
My husband - if he continues on this path - will never reach any of his goals. His goals will require him to put aside the excuses and do the hard work. So I dont see it happening - when he has the very real talent and potential to go further than anyone I know. What his life will boil down to is excuses. He will make them at every turn, missing out on all the good things because of excuses.
ADHD is hard to label.....
Submitted by c ur self on
Stacy I've seen it effect folks in many ways....I've got ADHD friends who are workaholics who if you help them, you will have to tell them..."Hey dude lets take a break". I've got a ADHD son in law who handles his emotions great, works hard, but he can be a little scattered and forgetful, but he is ware of it....My wife is probably the most effected of anyone I know, life just seems to be a huge struggle for her (time management, you know the list)....Maybe thats why her mind and desires seem to always revolve around frivolity, travel, games, visiting family....Just about anything but the mundane responsibilities of life....You can guess who gets those:)
C