I just saw the touring "The Book of Mormon" musical in the theater. It was great and funny! So much of it I identified with. How I was TAUGHT to be who I was as a child in church to be afraid of hell and OBEY the rules....no matter who or what made the rules, I was conditioned to BELIEVE and TRUST them. I was not a Mormon but some of the "rules" were similar in my upbringing.
I always wanted to know what I SHOULD do.....as if others outside of myself were in charge of making sure I was doing what I was supposed to do. Even as an adult, I was attuned to finding who was in charge and what must I do to be "good" according to their rules. I was so afraid that I would do SOMETHING WRONG!!!!!!SIN!!!!!WRONG! I am ashamed of being weak-willed and not knowing what I want or getting what I need to be safe and sane and my SELF?
How do I give myself PERMISSION to live MY life after so many years believing that I must serve and be humble to EVERYONE ELSE (nice and unselfish)? I get to tell young people that if they give and give and give.....and don't let themselves know and practice with all their heart what makes them thrilled, excited, motivated, happy....that they will be like me one day feeling like I betrayed my self by giving my will and heart to EVERYONE ELSE'S WILL.
So now, how do I set out on a different path to take care of myself and become more aware of my own needs....after all, I don't want to be a resentful, negative, judgmental old woman. I thought I and God would be proud of me. But no, I am not surely proud of how I "stood by my man" and supported him and tried to make him happy and gave to family before I took for myself. I'm not PROUD. I am ashamed.
I WILL today and in the future, change my goals. My goal in life is not to try to be so good....obeying the rules that other people have made. My goal is to live life by my heart more often and other people's rules less often. I will be learning how to live my life fully and proudly. I will stop searching the internet trying to find "how to BE". And I will take the time and attention to listen to my own heart with courage to go against other's rules if need be.
So familiar Jenna.....
Submitted by c ur self on
I grew up with much the same mindset, and much the same rules....I just couldn't be good enough (my own efforts)....But, one day I understood or was given understanding of:....Roman's 8:-1-10...
There isn't anything wrong w/ the rules, (the law), the problem has always been the weakness of my flesh...The Christ!, took my sin, on himself when he went to the cross....Now all I need to do is work to enter into his rest....Hebrews 4:10-11....
It wasn't that these men waving the rules at us didn't have the best of intentions...They didn't understand either!....Even the disciples didn't, Peter proudly proclaimed he would go to his death also, but he deigned the Christ 3 time the night before he was crucified, and the rest I would guess were probably to scared to come around....But what's interesting to me is, after the Holy Spirit fell on them, these same men, all, with out fear, gave their lives for the Gospel and the name of Christ...
It's always been this away for fleshly men, in my opinion....If a Pharisee could help from being a Pharisee, he wouldn't have been a Pharisee....If C ur self, could help from being weak, and Self Righteous, he wouldn't have been weak and Self-Righteous...It's not by my strength that I will over come....Thank Goodness!!!
Blessings Friend...
C
Spirit
Submitted by jennalemone on
I like this: "the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. " And it goes with what I was saying. If I stop trying to play by the rules and obeying the rules. If I start listening to my heart...I will be at peace. It was the rules and my self-accusing (trying to be so good) that has had me miserable. I am seeing that there are a few of us on this forum feeling the pain of feeling unloved. Many of us are people who have worked and tried the best we could to love and be loved by the person we promised (holy matrimony) to be true to while being betrayed in various ways by them. It was the rules that I was taught that kept me chained to someone who emotionally pained me. H does not play by the same rules and I was paralyzed to do anything about that except cry and try to fix it. I CAN'T FIX THIS! But I can live by a spirit inside of me that says that life is not meant to feel like a burden but life is to LIVE and LOVE. The old puritanical virtues have not served me well. Now I must give my heart some muscle. It has been so long since I lived by my heart or even paid attention to my HEART. I used to listen to my heart and cry because my heart felt broken and mute. It's my job now to heal that with strength and let my heart and spirit become strong and let those old rules go so that there can be some joy and contentment.
I CAN'T FIX THIS!
Submitted by c ur self on
I CAN'T FIX THIS!
Jenna...That is right, I can't fix it either, but, there is one who can fix me...But it takes me turning to him and giving it to him....Some how many of us who suffer as you say "with the pain of feeling unloved" struggle to realize it's not with in our power to fix it...or even if we know we can't, we still can't stop trying....
It is so difficult to turn inward, and only deal with ourselves while we are living in the same house together....I was against our separation a few years ago, my pride just didn't want to say it has to come to that...But in hind site is was the best thing that ever happened to me and the marriage...It gave me time to heal from my Anger and bitterness. It also gave me time to realize I had to have boundaries if we were ever going to be able to live in any kind of harmony at all.
It is so hard to accept that a person can think and say that they are devoted (in their mind) to a relationship, and it look and feel to their partner life they could careless most of the time....And as far as I'm concerned that huge difference in perception (Seeing through different lens; different realities) is what causes much of the conflict....And until I step back and say OK C...Just go live your life and here is what you must do, and must not do:....You must honor your vows, and love your wife; without enabling or mothering...You must trust your wife...You must accept your wife's way of living even if you do not agree with it...(when I accept, I stop over thinking her ways, I stop pointing out things in a negative way, and I stop w/ the expectations)....I also must be true to myself and my convictions as a believer even if we go separate ways many times....Most of this is up to me, boundaries takes care of the rest....
Last but not least...I must be willing to accept the day to day "product" that comes from us two being one, and be at peace with it....I can't do this on my own, but, through Christ I have the ability to Love, the Power to Live, and a Sound mind that can be renewed each day in his spirit....So I am empowered....
Yep...You're on the right road....
C
Jenna...."The Shoulds" KISS Keep It Simple Stupid
Submitted by kellyj on
Jenna...you posed a really good topic here. What are the "Should(s)" anyway? The should(s) are really just our expectations really if you stop and think about it? Of ourselves and of others to either: "Do certain things"....or....."not do certain things."
When we don't do things we know we should....we disappoint ourselves. When we do things we know we shouldn't....we disappoint ourselves. So either we're doing things we shouldn't and need to STOP......doing those things.
-or-
We're not doing things we know we should be doing.....which means we need to START.....doing those things?
Stopping and starting....all have to do with or tied to our own expectations of ourselves. KISS....keep it simple stupid.
But NOW....NOW!!!!.....NOW!!!!!!!!!!! lol We take those things ( the ones we have for ourselves and our own expectations )...and we expect.....others to NOT DO.....or DO.....those same things and when they don't do them.....they do not meet with our own expectations and we are disappointed when they either.....are not doing certain things......or......doing certain things? And they need to either START DOING those things.......or STOP DOING those things but we can't control anyone else and can't force or make them start or stop can we?
But yet....our disappointment still remains in either case....with ourselves...and with others? So what can we do here with that and what can we change so we are not disappointed?
CHANGE YOUR EXPECTATIONS? That is one option? That right there.... is in your power to do but now what about those expectations in themselves? They are there for a reason and sometimes without them...it would lead to nothing ever getting done? That has to do with STARTING AND DOING SOMETHING NEW OR WHAT YOU'RE NOT DOING?
But what about STOPPING? STOPPING....DOING WHAT YOU ARE ALREADY DOING? That's another option right there?
If someone who is not you...does something....or doesn't do something......we apply our expectations to it which is tied to what we believe?
I believe...that if someone gives me flowers....that means they Love me. I expect to get flowers from the person I Love...because this means they Love to me. And when I don't get those flowers....that means...they must not Love me because this is what I believe due to my own expectations of them since this is what I would do...to show that person I Love them? It's what I expect?
Unfortunately....that's not how it works? Another person may have a completely different "set"....of expectation than you do .....and their expectations are not necessarily wrong but just different?
For myself for example? I don't expect to get flowers given to me by anyone? Not normally and not even when I'm sick or even in the hospital which is a common thing to do that is somewhat..."expected practice" that is commonly agreed upon? In fact....I've only had flowers given to me on a handful of occasions which was nice....but not in the least expected? I am neither disappointed when I don't get flowers....or necessarily feeling that my expectations have been met if someone were to give them to me since....I didn't have any expectations of getting flowers EVER....in the first place? It neither means that the person doesn't Love me when I don't get them.....nor in turn.....meets any expectations as to Love...that I have, because I don't have that expectation connected to Love at all? It doesn't mean anything.....it's just nice as a show of thought...but disappointment is not even on the radar...and neither is any proof of "Love" by flower giving or receiving on my account. Period? Just because someone gives me flowers....does not necessarily mean they Love me BUT.....someone else might think that's true..and flowers = Love to them...so I buy them flowers to show "proof" that I Love them? But flowers themselves either way...don't mean anything to me and my expectations reflect that? I don't need flowers ever since they serve proof of really nothing more than a thoughtful gift and I like them while they are around? But just because I might give you flowers per se....does not necessarily mean I Love you only in that I might do it because I Love you...and I might do it because it's what you expect? If I'm just doing it because it's what you expect.....that definitely DOES NOT PROVE.....I Love you? Definitely NOT!!! I'm just doing it...to fill your expectation of me....but it's not from the heart and more of a Duty or Obligation to your expectation? THAT...is not Love.....nor is it PROOF of anything other than I might not want you to be dissapointed and I want to avoid the fallout of your disappointment when I don't give you flowers?
All that is....is avoiding consequences. The consequences of failing to give you flowers and having to hear about it later? Does avoiding consequences have anything to do with Love or giving from the heart? Hell NO!!!! lol
And in turn....if I successfully give you flowers on a regular basis.....does that mean I Love you and it's from the heart? Hell NO again!!!! LOL
All that means is....is I've gotten good at remembering to by you flowers...so I won't have to hear about it later while in the mean time....you think I Love you ...don't you? "He Loves me because.....he buys me flowers every week and never forgets me? Isn't that sweet?"
No....it's not sweet at all.....I'm just avoiding the consequences of not meeting your expectations and it only proves that I've gotten really good at avoiding the fall out that I don't want by doing it. It proves nothing and it certainly is not from the heart..;..or has anything to do with Love?
I brought this up because this is one of the big issues that I run into with my wife as well. Not so much with flowers...but with "Proof of Love" by doing things. What I just went through...is a sample of one possibility as a reason to do things and from that ...you can see that "things" don't always mean "other things"....unless the expectations are the same? Which in my case as I showed you..."flowers" for example.....don't mean anything or at least to me? I've got my own expectations that are different....but I have to apply them exactly the same way without extending that onto others or it won't mean a thing?
The only way you can even know in the first place...is to either ask...or to tell the person exactly what you're expectations are...in order to not dissapoint someone with the caveat being.....no one is expected to know all the expectations we have...and even if they did.....just because they don't meet them and we're dissapointed....doesn't necessarily mean...i'ts from the heart or not? Or...it proves that it is......or not?
Depending on?
The expectations themselves?
Kiss....keep it simple stupid. I have to remind myself of that.;......EVERY FRICK'IN DAY!!!! LOL ( so I won't be disappointed myself :)
J
Expectations
Submitted by jennalemone on
For me, my expectation of love from a man with a family is that he SUPPORTS HIS FAMILY FINANCIALLY and is TRUSTWORTHY!!!!! The contract of TRUST - that is what my expectation is. Flowers I can buy myself. What I want to give in return is make our family safe, cared for, fed, clean, and proud of ourselves.
If it were not for parenting/mothering/homemaking and women making less money than men, this would not be an issue. But a woman with children needs to trust that her husband will take care of them all in that way and that they can depend on him and be proud of him.
If a person has standards, there will be SOME EXPECTATIONS. No expectations would be a pretty sad and sorry mess. It seems to be a buzz word these days to happiness. No expectations. I have no expectations from anyone on this board. But I have no relationship/partnership/partnering contracts with any of you. That is why we can say things without fear of rejection or painful breakup...there is nothing to break up....nothing to expect. If the site does not work tomorrow I do not lose half of our assets. We HAVE a contract with our spouse so there IS expectations whether they are written with a lawyer or not, EXPECTATIONS are there. It is a partnership.
Jennalemone - AMEN.
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Jennalemone - AMEN. Expectations are required in a relationship. My husband seemed to think at the beginning of our relationship that I should have no expectations of him and that he should be able to do and say anything he wanted and it not affect me - he thought that meant being "independent". HA what a joke. I told him I was the wrong person to be with then since I had expectations that I could have faith in his loyalty towards me and that he would not hurt me physically or emotionally etc. Long mess that was.... because while I was not allowed to have expectations from him - he had LOADS of expectations from me. That had to stop right then and there.
I do have expectations - and they are few:
Those things - those are the MINIMUM things that I give in a relationship. I actually give ALOT more, and would like more in return. But if you cannot do those things - then I dont even want to mess with you anymore. A marriage is a contract... your vows are a contract. Its why it takes alot of legal work to undo all of it. A marriage isnt a marriage only when you are "in a good mood"...
Jeeze... you can really see my own situation bleeding through this post. I find myself getting too comfortable. I need to remind myself that my husband's word is only as good as his mood, and that he is RUNNING AWAY because he cant hack being a husband... when I have made it easier than anyone else ever would have. To hell with that.
You Are So Right ..Jenna
Submitted by kellyj on
And of course....I picked flowers as kind of innocuous....unnecessary "item" to keep it simple. But exactly right....children automatically mean...."standards to uphold" and within those "standards"..come those "principles or rules" that are somewhat accepted as in "norms". But this is also a cart and horse dilemma too? I don't have kids but it was not from ..not wanting them? It didn't work out that way for me....but I have no regrets either? So now back ...back out of what you were saying....with no kids...no at home duties in child rearing....no real standards to "set" as a teacher to your kids and being a role model to speak of for anyone else.....no standards no principles or nothing you have to provide in that way for anyone else but just you and your spouse or partner.....it removes as whole lot of those "automatic standards" doesn't it? Right off the bat......how many men would be Okay...if their wife had no children....but didn't go out and get a job and stayed home all day every day and only contributed by cooking and cleaning house without the gigantic undertaking...the time....;the energy..;.the emotional drain and the chaos that children throw into the mix?
I cannot speak for anyone else....but my first wife went for long periods without working, stayed at home...did hardly anything more than load the dishwasher, clean off the counters and put a load of clothes in the washing machine and dryer and barely did anything more than that? At best...and this was not a requirement everyday to do clothes for example? The amount of time and energy she expended to do just those duties ( and she didn't cook. I cooked and went grocery shopping plus worked 8 - 10 hours 5 days a week )...amounted to at best if she took her time and went really slow....maybe 2 hours a day...max!!! The rest of the time...she watched soap operas and did next to nothing else except relax and not work or what ever else she wanted to do...for the remaining 6 to 8 hours I was putting in working? And....contributed NO money what so ever on top of it? I felt like I was had a "country club" with only one member ....and I was the host, owner, operator, and bus boy, cook and errand boy all rolled into one while my ...patron....got to watch TV or what ever she liked and only contributed putting laundry in a machine and pushing a button and loading the dishes in another machine and pushing another button. She was really good at pushing buttons ( a button pusher ) but she was allergic to hard work of any kind and had no other responsible what so ever? At the very least....my contribution with groceries and cooking meals...was equal to her button pushing and loading clothes and dishes? At the very minimum...we were even Steven there?
And the only way I could see that from my own expectations of her? That she was nuts..and living in Fairy Tale Land if she thought that this would be acceptable to me...which I could only see as completely lazy and worthless with no skills or value other than switching on the TV ( another button lol ) and knowing what was going on in her soap operas?
I expected a Hell of lot more than that from a partner..;who had no kids and no other responsibilities and somehow in her delusion....thought that it's Okay for her to stay home, not work, not contribute financially and think that was Okay with me? That was so NOT Okay.....I don't even know where to begin? I didn't have a marriage in that case....I had a country club for the Lazy called "Days of Our Lives" !! LOL
Change one thing in the mix of things.....and it will change everything else along with it including your expectations? There you go Jenna. You need to match what you do and how you see things...to reality....not what's on Television ( in my first wife's case lol )
J