Hello everyone,
I discovered this forum two days ago, and I still can't believe that after all these years of being at a loss, desperate and lonely in my relationship I may have found what it was all about!
It's a strange feeling - at first, it seemed like a revelation; I felt a sense of exhilaration, relief, and hope. Finally, so many things made sense! But now I am also scared about what it all means for the future, and wonder if it is too late to unlearn the destructive / negative cycles we've been mired in for at least 6 years.
We separated (at my instigation) just over three weeks ago, after I found a flirty message from another woman which indicated to me that he still was not dealing with flirtations in a way that I consider to be respectful to me and our relationship.
The separation has been very hard on both of us. We still love each other, but we are stuck in negative patterns and can't seem to make it work. I think at this point we are both skeptical about our prospects and the possibility that we might still have a chance to be happy together.
But now that I've found so much that echoes our issues and struggles, I wonder - is there still hope? Can we start over with a clean slate at this point? Build a new foundation with this new awareness?
I sent my spouse a couple of links on the subject last night, and asked him to please take a look and think about its possible relevance to our relationship. I debated doing that because I was afraid he would take it personally - like I'd be blaming him for our struggles, but I thought that at this point I can't lose much more as our relationship is already in shambles.
We are meeting with an EAP counselor this afternoon, and I don't really know how to handle it, and what questions to ask. She may not know much about ADD and its effects on marriage, so that may be a problem...
I haven't heard from my spouse since, so I don't know if he's read any of it at this point, but he promised me that he would take a look before out appointment this afternoon.
Here's my story:
I have been in a common-law relationship with my significant other for just over 7 years. He is a wonderful person: he is kind, generous, tend er, ambitio us, intelligent, and I love him dearly. We have had intimacy issues for over 6 years, I have been feeling neglected, rejected, lonely and pathetic for wanting to share more intimate moments with the person I love.
We moved in together after dating for 6 months. We loved each other very much, but the decision to move in together was due largely to circumstances: I was an international student and would have had to go back home to work in order to fund another year of study. This brought some serious stressors to the table: he was not happy with where he was at, not sure what to do next in his life, and we were very tight financially (I was in school and he had to support me that year).
I realize now that my attitude towards sex (for me, a great way to have fun and relieve stress) couldn't be more at odds with my partner's. It doesn't take me much to get in the mood, and in fact, when I am stressed I tend to feel hornier.
What made matters worse is that when I started to notice the lack of intimacy, I found that he had been watching and downloading porn online, and had turned me down repeatedly but meanwhile had been looking at images or videos. That was very hurtful to me, and I confronted him about it that day, but I was in tears and upset. We didn't have a conversation about it, I think he just apologized and made light of it - all men watch porn at one point or another, and he said that a lot of it was inherited from his university years, some was sent to him by friends / roommates - ie, it was part of university culture, so to speak.
Yet, generally speaking, I felt him pulling away from me that year. I turned into a caretaker (which I already was for living under the yoke of a narcissistic, passive-aggressive mother who turned me into her parent / caretaker / confidante). My self-esteem was already suffering from feeling like I was a burden to him (even tough he reassured me that it wasn't the case), and the lack of intimacy made it worse.
It took me a while before I could bring up the lack of intimacy (I grew up in a strict family where sex was totally taboo) and I spent a fair bit of time trying to validate my feelings for myself - that it was a healthy component of a relationship, that I had a right to have those needs, and that it was a way to express our love for each other. But I didn't have the skill or the tools to discuss the subject with him rationally, tactfully, and without getting upset.
The first time I talked to him about it, I had had a drink or two (to make me braver...not a good idea), and probably brought it up in a way that was confrontational rather than calm and loving. I brought my own issues to the table, as I have not grown up in a healthy family and did not have any communication skills; growing up with my tyrant of a mother, I had to keep my feelings bottled up and was blamed for many things that were not my fault or responsibility.
During the first few arguments my partner and I had, it was like I had a lump in my throat and I could not utter a single word; it felt, literally, like I had no voice, and I would completely shut down. Meanwhile, I would have all these negative thoughts running through my head, mostly self-berating thoughts and suicide ideation. It has gotten better to some extent: I can now express my thoughts and feelings, even though it is still hard and takes me some time before I feel that I have built enough strength inside me to utter them out loud.
This is a bit of a digression, but I know that my difficulties with communication and my tendency to shut down and to get upset (I still have suicidal thoughts during arguments, though not every time, and it takes a lot of effort for me to stop them) has made things difficult in my relationship with my spouse. He would always tell me that he's the one who's holding out the olive branch, and yet I don't meet him halfway to end the argument. I've never been able to admit to him that in those moments, I'm in a very very dark place, I feel like I'm trapped at the bottom of a well, with nothing to hold on to, and it takes me some quiet time alone to calm down and to come back to the real world.
I still feel a lot of despair during arguments, like there is no hope left whatsoever, and I know that it's upsetting to him and not helpful. I bring my own issues to the table.
In addition to the porn (which I couldn't help but take personally at the time - what is wrong with me that he'd rather look at images than have sex with me), there have been a number of 'incidents' which have hurt me and caused resentment in me: a few flirtatious exchanges with other women where he was crossing the line; signing up on 'adultfriendfinder.com'; and even signing up on a dating website. Each time he apologized, assured me that he didn't intend for any of it to go further, and that he simply wasn't thinking. He also recently called it 'escapism' - which I am now beginning to understand I think. I'm not prudish when it comes to sex, and would love to try new things with him, to really come out of our shells and have fun together. I've expressed that to him, and we had a short glimpse of a more sexed-up life when we shared some fantasies by email the last time our relationship was really shaken up by a flirtation of his.
This was short-lived, however. We gradually went back to having sex about once a month. Resentment on my part has contributed to the deterioration of our relationship. I've become high-strung, critical, and tense around him. The intensity varies, but it is always there. Sometimes I manage to let it go a bit, to try and focus only on the positive, think about all the qualities that I love in him. But deep down I'm still sad about the lack of passion in our relationship, I've been feeling like I'm dying a slow death, and that he robs me of a healthy sex life when I am still young, attractive and should be enjoying this wonderful component of human life. It has made me feel depressed, it's taken a lot of focus away from my studies, and I think that I've been getting repeatedly ill because of the stress and depression I've experienced due to this issue. It's just been so sad. I would wonder, aimlessly, 'we love each other, we are attracted to each other, we are only 30 (have been together since we were 23) and healthy, so why aren't we enjoying our sex life together?'
I recently heard someone say on a radio show that 'resentment is like relationship cancer'. That couldn't be more true. I can only begin to imagine how hard it must have been for him to be so good to me in so many ways, and yet be resented and criticized. When he first told me that I made him feel like 'sh**', like he was a failure, like I didn't love him, I was horrified but defensive. I didn't see where he was coming from. All I could think of was that I do a lot for him, that I put him first in many ways, and that I am the one begging for attention, I'm the one who is made to feel like 'sh**'. Now I see the other side of the coin, and I wish I could erase all the times that I made him feel criticized and inadequate.
It has taken quite a while before we first went to counseling, but we didn't get anywhere with it. We didn't make time for the homework and exercises, and since the therapy was through his EAP program, it didn't help that the sessions were infrequent. He excels at his job, has taken on quite a lot of responsibilities over the last year, and has even started another degree at the same time. He is under a lot of pressure and is spread really thin, which doesn't help. No wonder that after putting in so much work and being exhausted on the week-ends, the last thing he wants to do is read relationship books.
So many descriptions on this forum echoed things I've experienced in my relationship, behaviors on his part, and simply the dynamics it creates between the spouses (mothering / resentment / pulling away) that I feel quite a bit of relief. I feel like a lot of guilt and blame has been lifted.
Among the symptoms that I read about, some relevant ones are: distractibility (zoning out, tuning me out, eyes glazed over), hypersensibility to touch, mind racing, difficulty 'being in the moment' (his words), possibly self-esteem issues, trouble connecting / being intimate, need for stimulation (taking on a lot and being spread too thin), forgetting appointments / meetings, possibly impulsive spending (which has improved), and it seems that the inequitable household responsibilities could also be related to this (from what I have read).
But what are our prospects? How do you know whether it's too late and too much damage has been done? I couldn't handle any more flirtations / hurtful behaviors when I am here longing for intimacy and connectedness with him. I am now trying to take care of myself, and realizing that my fragile ego is a casualty not only of the lack of intimacy but also probably of ADD.
Any suggestions for where to go from here would be greatly appreciated. I'd be surprised to get a response today, but just case, if anyone has any advice on how to discuss this at my counseling appointment this afternoon would be a huge help.
Thanks so much in advance, and many hugs to all of you dealing with similar struggles.
E.
i just wanted you to know you
Submitted by happycamper13 on
i just wanted you to know you aren't alone, and there can always be hope, especially when a "leaf" like ADD is turned and shown for what it is. i can't say that i speak from experience since my spouse is just starting this journey, we are also separated, and it is largely because he did a lot more than flirt (think John Edwards), and i don't know which problems your or my spouse can attribute to ADD/ADHD. mine's hypersexual, which makes my relatively normal libido look anemic by comparison. i was constantly left feeling inadequate, even though we had a pretty interesting sex life, and i certainly wasn't seeking stimulation elsewhere. your partner's overt attempts to flirt and meet other people...a dating website, really?...is so disrespectful though, you shouldn't tolerate that from anyone. that's not just ADD, it's a habit, maybe stemming from some ADD need in the brain, but it's habit, and a disrespectful one. maybe he has his own hang-ups in the sex department? i came from a sex-taboo family too, so i really relate to the confusion and discomfort that comes with it as adults.
it's up to both of you now. you've admitted and recognized that you have some problems you could work on...he has to do the same thing or you won't get anywhere. also, i'm not there to see what's going on, but you take an awful lot of responsibility for how he feels. is it possible that some of the things you feel so terrible about are things he may have distorted or told you were terrible? i just ask because i blamed myself for a LOT of things, and really felt i'd failed him or made things so much worse, primarily because he was great at attributing his problems to me or others. we all have things to work on, but i know that people with your background (and mine) take too much blame too often.
a great therapist once said to me: "what makes you so important that you think everything could be your fault?" - i took offense for about a half second, and then sighed with relief and indignation. ya know? how could i be at fault for everything bad, but take little or no credit for anything good? chin up, and stay with us for support, there are a lot of really great people on these boards, from both sides of the partnership.
Wow, very interesting to find this thread
Submitted by grooveline718 on
Hi Eureka and Happy Camper, just checking to see if this thread is still active. I am in a similar situation, but am the man with ADD/ADHD. It is actually really great to hear from each of you and to hear how my spouse probably feels and to try to sort through everything on my end.
Questions for Grooveline718
Submitted by Tino on
As the female partner w/o ADHD in a not living together relationship with a BF with ADHD and anxiety, I just have a few questions to ask you. Some have been answered in Hallowell's books, but I wanted your insight.
My BF was diagnosed at 57 - in the middle of our getting to know each other. He has been very honest with me regarding his issues dealing with ADHD and life's challenges. He can be very attentive and present, but when he goes "down under" he removes himself completely and really can't be in touch - as I am a distraction to what he needs to get done in his life - job, family, and right now he is dealing with elderly parents. We broke up for a time and when we got back together two years ago I told him that he at least had to let me know he was okay when he needed time down under. He has done that via text and email. He says he can't call me and hear my voice cause it distracts him and he wants to be with me - taking him away from his demands. I do understand it, but it is not easy. I've learned to live my own life quite well, but my question is to you - does that happen to you? And what does it feel/look like? He has told me not to take it personally and that it is not about me. It affects me - but I do not cause it. When he goes down under it would be great if he could give me a time line of when he might pop back up - but I can't ask him - cause he really doesn't know. And right now life is loaded with parents in assisted living, Easter Sunday - a big day for him and his family, and his 60th birthday. I would love to hear your comments! Thanks
does that happen to you? And what does it feel/look like?
Submitted by brendab on
Tino,
This is exactly what happens when exBF has any kind of major issue. He worked unsuccessfully on a new business idea for 6 months, and I felt totally forgotten. When the idea failed, he came back into my life for 2 months. Then his father passed away after a stroke and he has been dealing with a lot of family drama for 7 months with no timeline to return to my area. Like you said, when they go down under they are in overwhelm and cannot give us attention. It just makes me feel so UNIMPORTANT and NOT NEEDED. I seem to have this expectation that attention=love.
You might consider reading Love and Respect. The author compares a woman's need for attention like an oxygen hose. When the man in her life steps on her oxygen hose and shuts off attention, she gasps for breath. She NEEDS attention like she needs air to breathe. I think this is why we often read posts here about how great the dating hyperfocus is and how it hurts when the man stops giving her attention.
We talk maybe once a week, and at this point I know that I cannot have the traditional marriage that girls grow up expecting. To be with him we would have to develop a very NONTRADITIONAL relationship. This is why your last post was encouraging to me. You totally understand that being with an ADDer would require some out of the box arrangements. Are these unique arrangements possible? And what would they look like? How do we stop ourselves from feeling neglected? Or should we just move on?
Brenda
going "down under"
Submitted by grooveline718 on
HI Tino. I'll try to give you my perspective as best I can. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "going down under" (if that is a phrase from Hallowell's books, I'm not recalling right now), but I assume you mean (and what happens to me) entirely "checked out" and inward focused? Or at least not able to focus on you? I'm not exactly sure of the exact situation with your BF, but I can rely my story and attempt to say what it "looks like".
One thing I can say is that it seems like somehow your BF can give you a sign as to when this will happen. For me, I can't. In fact, somehow, so quickly I find myself either totally focused and wrapped up on something without even realizing it or completely and impulsively angry and frustrated before I even realize what's happening. Its somewhat different for me because I am married and living with my wife so I can't really "check out" and be in a separate place.
Today for instance the two of us went to brunch with a friend of her's (who has also become a friend and potential client of mine). He had asked to see us last week on Thursday night and we were both too tired and I'd thought about going to a talk that evening anyway. So we told him that we were busy and I wound up not going to the talk and my wife and I just stayed in. Somehow I forgot all of this. During brunch today, he asked about how my talk on Thursday was and somehow, for some reason, I couldn't remember anything. I couldn't remember what I did on Thursday and I couldn't remember that we'd told him we couldn't see him because I was busy. My wife was saying "Oh, yes, don't you remember that talk" and I was suddenly panicking and couldn't remember. I was scared and angry with my wife because she just simply wouldn't tell me what I did on Thursday. Of course she was only trying to cover for the reason we'd told him that we weren't going to see him. Then my wife, to remind me and to try to get me to be quiet, began kicking me under the table. This for some reason infuriated me and I said "stop kicking me!". So, without even realizing anything I'd panicked because I couldn't remember anything. Then I became enraged with my wife because she wasn't helping me figure out what happened. Then even more angry because she was kicking me under the table (which of course was only to remind me of what we'd said). ALL of this happened without even a thought to slow down these impulses. I was incredibly rude and it was totally humiliating to my wife (and also to me).
This is somewhat different than your BF's situation, but the point is I really DIDN'T know what was happening. My wife is furious and thinks that I totally humiliated and embarrassed her and she can't understand how I could be such a "jackass". Honestly and truthfully, I don't either. Its so very hard to notice that this is happening BEFORE the fact and then once its in motion to STOP. And that isn't an excuse. I just am mortified at my behavior and I wish that my wife would understand how much of a struggle this is. Your BF probably can't tell you about when he might pop back up or his mood might be different because he doesn't know. And I bet (if he's anything like me) its frightening to him and scary. A lot of people have difficulty controlling their emotions, but I wish there was a way to express how very very difficult it is for folks with ADHD. It feels frightening and scary. After the fact especially because I have no idea what happened and how I could possibly behave that way and how to change. I am taking medication. I have a therapist and it helps. But not always. And it doesn't help me always be present and aware. One thing I've learned from therapy is that I've been "escaping" in one form or another my whole life. And it is INCREDIBLY hard for me to notice that in the moment and do something about it BEFORE I do it.
I don't know if that answered any of your questions or if that is at all similar to your situation, but happy to answer further.
Thanks for your answer
Submitted by Tino on
Dear Grooveline,
Your answer was very helpful and very similar to what I have seen my now exBF go through. This past "down under" time was too much, and he just cannot be in the kind of relationship that involves back and forth give and take. We tried, and I worked hard to understand what he went through, and he would describe very similar situations as to what you talked about. He would panic and get angry, and react in ways that hurt people and he never really meant to hurt anybody. He is also on meds and works with a therapist, but it is still a challenge. He was trying to alert me to a down time, but this time he admitted that he had so much on his plate there was really no room for me. I can't do it anymore either.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It helps me to know that even if the love and support is there it is still really challenging.
Tino