What does your ADHD spouse consider a "fun" activity that you do together? My husband has always like going to the movies, I don't. I don't like it because to me, we aren't interacting with each other in any way. We are just sitting there in the dark staring at a really big television screen, and then going home. We haven't talked, interacted, shared anything, played together.......nothing. To me, it's the same as staying home watching television. But, he doesn't like doing anything ELSE. I like bowling, going to museums, or art shows, going to concerts, seeing interesting things in any town we are in,, going to a lake or park, and tons of things, even going to an arcade. But, if I suggest these things, he groans, and says, "Why don't we go to the movies?" To me this DOESN'T help a married couple ENGAGE with each other at all. Does anyone else deal with this one? Since trying to fix ADHD affected marriages, part of it, is to DO THINGS TOGETHER where we can "engage' WITH each other. Any thoughts, anyone? Or, is this another one of those, "Live your lives separate kind of things?" How can a couple re-engage, if you can't DO fun things TOGETHER?
What does your ADHD spouse consider a fun activity together?
Submitted by dedelight4 on 04/23/2017.
Hi Dede...
Submitted by c ur self on
(Does anyone else deal with this one? Since trying to fix ADHD affected marriages, part of it, is to DO THINGS TOGETHER where we can "engage' WITH each other. Any thoughts, anyone? Or, is this another one of those, "Live your lives separate kind of things?" )
I will give you my two bits worth:)...Your comment here comes down to at least 3 musts for me....Agreement...,Desire....Flexibility....It's not about adhd per Sa, in my view....First, there must be a desire coming from BOTH parties to engage, or there will be no way to have a healthy engagement...Secondly both parties must be flexible enough to pursue a diversity of things, since we are dealing with two minds. We also must have an agreeable spirit, or the effort put forth to try and have these moments of closeness and intimacy, will only drive us back to the place you just posted.."Living separate lives"
Now to answer your question...My wife likes most of the things you like...I like them also to a point, but, I like things like Hunting, Fishing, Biking, Sports, Lots of Sex...Your normal male list I guess...It's not that we don't like doing some of the same things...Our conflict around activities usually comes about concerning the priority placed on the activity....If the activity (person, place or thing) takes precedence over the intimacy of our relationship, then we are doing more damage than good by doing it together....That is why I don't jump to be involved in many things she comes up with....It's not that I wouldn't enjoy it...It's just that it can't be so important that we forget what is truly important!..If you were my wife, and we were enjoying an activity, and you said I need to get off of my feet my back is killing me...Your need at that point has to be as important to me, as it is to you...If I become a selfish victim at that point, and start verbally hammering you with my disappointment in you, for something you can't do anything about, then how would you feel?? See how that works...NOTHING can be larger in our lives (on this earth) than our love and concern for one another....So we must recognize when it is, and not be so unwise to allow ourselves to wade off into those situations....
As for adhd minds liking movies and TV programs etc, as things to share with their spouse. That is not uncommon here or surprising...It's therapy for a fast mind...It allows for natural focus and rest for their mind...It allows a slowdown from distraction...That is a feel good thing for them and many would probably classify it as intimate...
My wife loves to pile up on our double recliner put her naked legs over on my lap for me to touch while she enjoys her TV programs...Setting beside her in this manor, and touching her hands, arms and legs is foreplay for her...
C
C, thanks, yes I understand
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Don't get me wrong C. Well, I don't think I verbalized it very well, but I DO go to the movies with my husband because he likes it. It's just it's the "only" thing we do together. I haven't harassed or yelled at him or anything about this, it's just I"m not crazy about going to the movies as our ONLY thing to do together.
The rest of the time at home he spends behind his computer or his video games/tablet. There was once I signed us up for dance classes (ballroom) and he fought it terribly, until he actually went. Then, he got all excited, and actually LIKED it, and couldn't wait until each next class. We had a good time during those few weeks. That was years ago, but since the computer is his entire life, almost like an addiction, he spends untold hours on it. He says he's "working", but then will hand me tons of things he's downloaded off different sites he's been looking at. I understand his mind is 'busy", and I don't mind that. It just leaves me alone a lot.
I too understand what you are saying...
Submitted by c ur self on
Time, attention, and care should be a part of our lives together...I understand what you are saying. It is difficult to be in a marriage where you seem to be the only one putting energy into the relationship....
Blessings
C
Conditions Dede
Submitted by kellyj on
Hi Dede,
I mentioned to you in the other response I made to you that the word "conditions" was my new word that I have to remember to help remind me of something which plays out in the just the opposite in some ways compared to your husband. I am apt, to be more like your husband, but I really need more than a computer to interact with and engage with to feel fulfilled and complete, even if I were all by myself? I really didn't even get interested in spending any time on the computer, until I needed it to find things, research information or use it for shopping and then for work? I've mentioned that I just recently, for the first time ever...joined face book but only because I was really wanting to connect with someone that I possibly knew, and re-establish some friendships again. I was feeling so disconnected for the same reasons you are, that I had to find some source for connection, even if it was only through the internet which has never been my way of doing that and is not necessarily my first choice? As my T has pointed out to me ( and I agree with him ) its kind of like getting only a slice of the pie, and "leaves a lot to be desired" in that way, because of it? Real life, real time interaction with people..is not the same as doing "parallel" activities like going to see a movie? I do really enjoy the movies on occasion, but in the same way it has always been, it's not just to see the movie itself. As it was and always has been, it's more of a "date" where going out and possibly doing other things before or after is involved along with it. This is where, my wife has yet to be open and honest about any issues she is having, and blames me..or accuses me ( either way ) for being the source of her issue? I cannot "make" someone happy, not can I "make" someone:.....not like to go out of the house. Have so much social anxiety surrounding people that all the "conditions" that have to be met ( HAVE TO ) in capital letters, that it makes it impossible to simple say "hey, lets go do......" and then have that happen, which is all about her "fear and anxiety" and lack of trust? Trust in herself, more than anything else? She will say things on occasion like "I'm sorry we struggle with this..." or..."I'm sorry we can't communicate...." which is a statement of fact, yet it is still a statement of denial. Yes "WE" do have problems in these areas...I'm feeling "sorry" about that too? The problem with her statement, is "I know why that is" but if I approach her that way, it will completely start a fight, and that will just set her off? I've stopped walking on egg shells, and I have stopped worrying in fear of what she will do....since I have gained some control of those situations...where I volunteer, and pony up and say "stop....I'm not going to fight with you or argue with you, you can have it any way you like and I don't care as long as we don't fight or argue about it" and generally, she will stop but then not say anything after that? If she cannot "fight or argue" and be contrary or dismissive...or I take away her ability to blame or find fault or anything along those lines.....she really is "grounded"...with no where to go with it...and the entire engagement falls flat and I disengage from her that way. This is where, she will sulk, pout, and do the silent treatment, or try and use guilt or shame against me, in order to gain sympathy or in order to "manipulate me" into doing something? If she cannot speak, to what she wants..or communicate what she wants or how she feels....it is like she needs my emotions and my feelings to use to bounce off of or to give her some direction? When I do open up, and then in turn..she opens up....she has got literally...a one track mind..and what ever is on it, is all that there is? Which means, in any conversation we have during these times....what is of interest to her....is all there is? This my appear to be one respect...the classic symptom of only being stimulated by certain things ( mentally stimulating to here ) so therefore, anything that does not do this...she completely stops listening to? I finally pinpointed where he accusations were coming from...in that, when she has said to words "I feel like I am being held hostage" are really coming from? This is where ( in one aspect of this ) using my ADHD symptoms against me has back fired to a certain degree? Since I am so aware of this ( and actually have been for a very long time ) and since even in my childhood....learning to "shut up" and stay that way meant...that being the center of attention, needing to be that..and not being self reliant in respect to being able to entertain myself almost indefinitely ( up to a point...making that clear ) that when I hear someone say...."you are holding me hostage"...if I am merely trying to engage with her, respond to her, interact with her....."with intention". Again, meaning...I am fully aware of what I am doing, why I am doing it, and even how I am doing it....that even if I am long winded, or speak in a lot of detail about events or even tell stories....I am sharing "real life" and "real life" details about myself, or someone I know or some kind or relationship, between myself and someone else? What I am trying to do more often than not, is find something of interest to talk about....not just about her and how she feels at any given moment in time? If that one track mind...only is thinking about one thing....then that looks really "selfish" and "self serving"...which it would be...if I didn't understand it from an ADHD perspective? This is where, trying to have a conversation...without empathy there in one form or another....just becomes a one way street...where you are only giving into it...and nothing is coming back? This is where it gets really crazy since she will start to become upset, agitated and quiet...yet not say anything...until she abruptly just shuts the entire conversation down of has an over reaction or over emotional melt down..and with no words to explain it? The only words she will use in these sudden "out of the blue" moments are things like..."can't you see me here.....( some kind of dramatic adjective of her state of mind ) as if I can mind read..and she has been suffering tremendously ( in that victim role again )...but yet is attacking me, blaming me,l accusing me...fo the "state" she is in? And she really truly believes, that I should be able to intuited this, by just observing her from the outside...with no words spoken about it? Like a mind reader....and with somewhat of that expectation involved?
What that really is....is her..completely being disconnected with her body or herself....to be completely oblivious of the facts or what she is doing, and what I observe her doing...and then the final conclusion to this which is always the same? She will normally, initiate our conversations since, if I do that with what I want....that is not interesting to her? So I will normally wait ( and not long for sure ) before she will come to me in a rather demanding way ( kind of like....Right Now this minute ) because simply put....that is what she needs? What ever she needs......"right now this instant"...to be Okay with ( you name it??? ) then...that is all she has in her field of view...and that is what she needs right then?
When I see this...stepping back from it...and apply myself and these "pullls" I get that I have to manage accordingly....I see her doing the same thing....but yet, with absolutely no social awareness about it..and she will just blunder along and engage and disengage right when she needs it....as a means to manage her self....through me...and that is where this gets really messed up in trying to communicate? This is something, that I became aware of and in the fact, that I have done this before mostly in my past and mostly when I was younger which is really not a need at all anymore and that sort of took care of it by itself a long time ago? Years ago...to be sure...but that doesn't mean..I don't remember it...and I know it, when I see it because I did it too? That is the part, that backfires on her? Of all the people....in one respect....that she cannot pull the wool over on ( even if this is denial and she is unconscious of it and it's not intentional )....I actually do recognize this from myself, and there is no amount of accusing, blaming, acting out or otherwise, that is going to make me not recognize something that I have gone through myself with a lot of pain, effort and struggling to get past and see myself? When you go through all of that...and then stop doing it....and then are confronted by the same thing? At first...I took her for face value..and took all those things onto me as me being the source of these moments...which is what most anyone would do right at first...if someone is standing there telling you it is? But only for so long if it keeps on happening the same way each time and then things stop adding up after a while? Those "indiscrepancies" begin to emerge and things stop making sense? And when things stop making sense, is where I really start paying attention to them which is why I can say, I really am focusing and listening and making mental notes as I go. When the "rationales" start sounding like "rationalizations..and are not matching what is really going on? Well something is going on all right...whether it is being said "out loud" or done silently without communication in spoken word? These moments are no longer a mystery anymore and I know what they look like on both sides of the fence? I have "no need for"...."a penny for your thoughts" out of insecurity or feeling "unsure" when I am pretty damn sure....( within a certain range of intuition ) that I can see this happen, and recognize what that is? And really, a lot of that has to do with me listening and paying attention? I have to include one really valuable resource to date? That is actually, going on different ADHD forums..and listening to ADHD people talk about this ..and especially women with ADHD try and explain this.....and then they can't....( and instead ) only talk about how "they feel" about it....without including the other person into the story? When I hear a story with only one side too it....I know full well there are two sides, but I am listening to the one side and taking it all in? The same as I do...or you do here, and that includes everyone who comes here for support in some way? We come her for a reason...and the reason is some kind of support? Many times however..I am coming here to learn...more than anything else? And when I am in learning mode...then I am listening and trying to understand? And very much in the same way...I am not only here to "express myself" and gain others sympathy...or gain some kind of emotional bond? Truly, what I have found the most helpful to me, is going to see my T under conditions of stress and anxiety...and what he does, and does so well..is to talk me down and give me insight...and that is truly what I have come to understand...that I really need and want most of all? I've realized...this is what I need more often than not, and reason for that is simply....I don't need or want...anyone having to do that for me? I don't want people there...who are trying to figure me out? I don't feel the need...for attention in that way? In fact, I want just the opposite of that most of the time, but only because I have found that, the more I can do for myself, by myself...the better off I am and the more control I have of myself? And that is where this line starts becoming a little less clear...in at what point...are you using other people....and you don't even realize that you are? Using them in respect...to getting your needs met? Saying, if I have dozen a good job...of meeting my own needs, then I really have no need at all for anyone else except what one might think as...human connection..or the human aspect of a two people being in the same room together..and coming to some kind of place where they are both sharing equally..in a give and take kind of exchange? It everything, all the time, in every single interaction.....shifts to one person..and starts to become about one person only...then that is what you end up talking about, doing or where the entire focus ( in a general sense ) all the energy or air in the room is going to? Without the awareness, that you are using other people to simply "make you feel better"...then every time you are not "Okay"...or it's not what ..."you want"...then unconsciously, that other person is not doing what you need them to do and that is where things go haywire in a hurry? It is almost on such a primitive level of...not understanding, that there is no way to explain that to someone...if they can't get that part by themselves? In essence.....if I were to be with someone, and they wer talking about or doing something I didn't like or was causing me a negative reaction.....the first thing that crosses my mind of hits me (ISN'T) "you are making me feel this way? YOU are the reason..I am having these feelings that I don't like....so therefore ( in conclusion ) how you act, what you do, how you behave, what you say...basically everything you do....is somehow having an effect on them? And they speak to you, as it...this is what everyone is like..and they can't understand...why that is or what the problem is? If it's not me....then it must be you?
So this I think...is where this "external"...or .;.."internal"....locus of control thing comes in? In the same essence of believing that...things on the outside of you ( your environment or people ) are the source for how you feel...then they have some power or control over you by how they act or behave? And subconsciously or unwittingly....you will begin to subtly...or not so subtly...start exerting outward controls on them? I don't believe this is malicious or even with mal intent, and is normal up to a point....but that is where the line gets drawn? Sure, it makes you feel better when your house is clean and in order...or if something is happening where you are, that makes you feel good ( what ever it is ). But when your entire state of mind and emotional state...is directly tied to another person , place or thing....to either make the difference between you ..."being Okay".....or ....."not being Okay"...meaning...you are starting from ........"Not being Okay"...and desperately truing to..."BE Okay" in the first place? Not, your emotions, how you feel and your entire state of mind...becomes dependent on one person...or for that matter....anything and everything in the world outside of you...then you are at the mercy..or what ever is happening...and if that is not Okay...or gives you what you need...then it doesn't matter what it is, who it is...or what is happening....is it's not what you need, then it's not what you need and you will try you best, to get that.....FROM.....the other person in more of less...controlling or manipulative way? This where the hypocrisy and the discrepancies start to really show themselves? If it's consistent, and makes sense from one thing or person to the next, that is one thing....but if you see someone, as either....good or bad.....based on how you feel.....that is not only a ridiculous notion in the first place ( since that cannot be possible ) then you mood and state of mind ( if you read this out of a human biology book ) would say so in the first place? That were are all 100% emotionally susceptible to other people and everything they do or say? As if, they have this power over you, and they are deciding or doing things on purpose...to make you feel the way you do? All from the outside...and nothing about you on the inside and what is actually physically or emotionally happening on the inside,,,that is completely independent or anything or anyone else? And in respect to where this comes from? If you were raised ( lets say ) by a parent who blames you....for the way they feel....then you will believe this is where it comes from, and follow suit accordingly? If everything you need and want...is outside of you...then that would make sense from that "external locus of control" and you would tend to believe that controlling things on the outside of you...is how you manage those feelings? Saying, you learn, to believe this just by osmosis almost, you are not specifically taught this as your means to learn it ...and you just arrive at that conclusion on your own? Not until, you find different ways ways to control your mood or emotional state yourself with no other input or outside source....then you are going to continue on this path in thinking ( unconsciously ) that other people are "doing it to you". And that falls squarely back into that victim analogy again? Believing others...have power they do not possess, in managing you feel bad or good and you are not in control of this yourself? Looking outwardly for things to make you feel "better" when the starting place is in the negative...and you "need something"...that you are not getting by yourself?
None of this, is what I am saying "not normal" for eveyone to a certain degree, so that much in itself is not the problem as I see it? The problem comes, when you start feeling entitled to it...and it should be yours..and others 'should be " just automatically given it to you...and reading you and monitoring you constantly....in order to know just what you need at all times? Literally thinking, that someone actually has the power or could even know that on their own, without any input from you? It becomes and expectation, and then a demand that you do it...and it you don't do it...or can't do that....then that is your fault and you are to blame? That is just simply crazy talk..and crazy thinking...in thinking another human being can do this in the first place? This where this "mind reading" phenomenon ( and thinking "for other people " ) really start to come into play? As I see this...;there is a difference between: intuiting, sensing, or getting from..in the essence of actually empathizing or putting yourself in anothers shoes....to fill in the blanks for another person? But really, there is no way possible to know that for sure...so this is just a "sense"..or an "impression" but that is all that is? There is about 90% of the rest of it, there is just no way to know? And the only way that would be possible,,,,would be mind reading? Or looking outwardly, for anything that has a negative reaction within you..and then trying to avoid those things? And if a person or poeple become soemthing to avoid, then that means the list of acceptable things are few and far between...and the list of negative things is very long indeed? That makes ...what I'm saying in a "mechanical" sense or from an engineering perspective....One would say, that these two parts...must have extremely "tight tolerances" in order for them to operate or function well together? Literally speaking in the physical sense of two machine parts that need to git like two gears..or to moving parts in a machine...where the demand for exactness in thier size and shape..becomes critical to their function,....that if the slightest variance or change will cause them to "bind", or "seize up" which creates too much heat and friction and then eventually they fail due to this tolerance issue and stop working correctly? Or even going the other way, where there is so much "slop" or "wear" int those two parts...the they vibrated wildly, make noise and clank around, and just hitting against each other and wobbling out of control, where there is too much play between them, and all that energy is lost and not concentrated in an efficient way? This reminds me of when I was doing Tri-Athlons..and thinking about the biking portion, where this really comes into play? If all you energy, is to go to making yourself ( and the bike ) move forward and faster with the least amount of energy put into it from you ( being the most efficient and getting the most out of each pump on the peddle ) then they have discovered a miriad of ways to reduce flex and increase the critical tolerances, to maximize the energy you put into each peddle and pump with your legs, your body and using gravity as well.....You would not believe, how high tech these machines can be? When a stupid bicycle costs $6,000 dollars, my first reaction to that is "you've got to be kidding me???" Until you realize and understand for those competitors at the top, that they have basically tapped every other source of more energy or endurance and strength from their bodies..and now you have to look for other sources in order to go faster and this tolerance levels and "energy leakages" have to be considered here..or else, if your competitor has this miniscule advantage over the entire race, then if they cross the finish line 1/10th of a second ahead of you...that is in reality...all it takes to win? So those tolerances really do make all the difference.....but only under the most extreme and most demanding of situations you could possibly put yourself into? To the point that as you might or might not be aware of....that this went too far and this came to light when considering the story of Lance Armstrong.
Lance Armstrong was in one aspect of this, just a victim or the scape goat to a much bigger problem when it came to his drug testing the then finally admitting he used performance enhancing drugs or means to do this without getting caught? These atheletes were not using "steroids" or the more well known performance enhancer...but were using a chemical that helps the body use more oxygen or make use of it more, in order to extend your own natural ability to do this? It wasn't doing anything more than increasing the bodies "efficiency" in the same way they had done this with the their bicycles for the exact same reason. It was a miniscule advantage that would make really no difference to you and I if we used them, other than a possibly noticing the ever so slightest difference but maybe none at all? Only in the most extreme conditions, and only when it came to the top competitors, would this matter or where this would do anything and even then there is no guarantee except...what alll these bikers discovered ( all of them at the top not just Lance Armstrong ) that if they didn't make use of that...and ALL OF THEM. were doing it, then you had to do it to, or not be competitive? So one might argue, that if they are all doing it, then it was a fair competition and in respect to Lance Armstrong...is really was the case? The real truth of the matter and what made him so great, was the fact that he simply was born with this huge lung capacity, that exceeded the average person? So one could even argue...that this is unfair....but in the fact is.....people have talents...that fall into the "act of God " category and this is not consider unfair? Unfair since, they were born with a built in advantage that most other people do not have? In fairness to Lance Armstrong....he and ALL those top racers...were guilty...he was just made an example of....because he won so may times? I actually beleive...that to a lessor degree than they might claim or speculate, that this had that much to do with his success? It was a very tiny advantage that he may have been able to do without? He may have lost, only a couple critical races which is where this comes into play...but he would still have won 90% of them without any enhancer...but to make it even and to compete with everyone else....they all kind of ending up having to do it....unless someone came along and blew the whistle on the entire lot of them...but in Armstrong case....he was made example of. That's really what happened and how that played out?
And in ( not just kind of like...or similar ) to the story of Lance Armstrong and these top competitors in the world of bicycle racing.....I know about this first hand...not from sports which I wouldn't even know what to take or where to get these drugs...but from having ADHD...and then going on medication ( Adderall ). This is where so much confusion comes from and what and how these meds to what they are suppose to do..and what you can expect from taking them, and the whole nine yards that goes with it? If I am only speaking to what they do for ADHD only ( excluding any side effects either positive or negative ) what they really are, are exactly what I described with Lance Armstrong or competitive cyclists? It is a Brain Performance Enhancing drug...but specific to ADHD only? We are actually starting, at a disadvantage compared to everyone else, and we need that to just, get on a level playing field right from the start? But that only exists or accounts for the times, when this is a problem...otherwise, if you normal level of functioning is good enough alone without it...then there would be no need to take it after all? And when it comes specifically to "executive functioning" in the brain...it's simply a function "booster" or enhancer...and give you more energy or capacity and strength ( or endurance ) to fill in for what is missing compared to everyone else? It doesn't make you do anything,...you now have to use the extra ability and make use of it, or it all goes to waste? You still have to do things differently and do "things" yourself, but now with an extra added ability...that you didn't have before? That is really all it does, you have to do the rest and you still have to put in the work and effort...in essence.....to the fact that Lance Armstong still would have won most if still not all those races by himself..and the "drugs" didn't make him win...and that's just a fallacy in thinking that the drugs did it...and he didn't have to do anything to make that happen? Drugs or no drugs....Armstrong still would have won but maybe only couple of extremely close circumstances where the drugs actually made the difference. But only under those extreme conditions, otherwise they would be of no use to you what so ever?
So until the day comes when my wife can actually see herself, compared to ALL other people..and see herself as different ( not unique and not special ) then she is still going under the premise that she is just like everyone else...and these things should just ....come to her...without her changing or adapting to everyone else instead? Seeing it through the eyes of a victim, who is floating helplessly down stream by the current, with no way to change directions or change course and control how she feels ( her moods and emotions and feelings inside her ) she is still going to see the stream or the water....having 100% power and control of her....and she is still going to believe that is the stream who is making her move and change..and she has no power what so ever to control the stream of river and where it is taking her? She has no realziation, that these things she wants and likes that she is not getting ( or so she thinks ) is not what the problem is? The problem is, what she doesn't like...which is all coming from inside her..but she is focusing on outside of her...as the source for how she feels? There is nothing you can do, is someone believes this down to the core of their being..and even if they came to that realization....they would suddenly then have to realize..that their entire means of control ( what little they are getting ) now depends on them, and other people are no longer the means to do this anymore? If all of your means to control how you feel, have been placed in the hands of someone else...then you will have no skills in doing it any other way, and the way you've been doing it, will still get you what you need? What I said to you earlier about "if it works...it works....and that's all you know?" Well, if becoming demanding, domineering and controlling...gets you what you need...then anyone telling you that his is not good...is like telling you you don't need oxygen anymore to breathe? That entitlement, to have oxygen to breathe now extends to things where this is not critical and not the case....but your own experience tells you otherwise...and therefore justifies this in your head..and it doesn't matter if anyone else likes it or not? Not trying to be selfish or self absorbed in that way, but not knowing what the problem really is...having no other way to manage it or fix it? I've said this before, and now I am really maintaining this and standing on it....that most of the symptoms, behaviors and all the things you don't like in what your husband does Dede...is him, trying to manage his symptoms..and that is a full time job all by itself? The reason, he does anything in respect to ADHD only...is make himself feel "better"...starting from "not feeling good" to begin with, and just trying to get on a level playing field.....just for a start?
And in the same way, I see my wife doing exactly the same thing? But the problem comes, when that becomes my problem..and I am expected to....or required to ...do that for her and "fix" what I know now..I cannot fix. I know this because I am so aware of this, and gone through that myself to know......now one can fix me....and I am the only one who knows how I feel inside about anything? How I feel, and my general "state of mind" is not caused by anything outside of me, including my wife in that case? Up to a point that is....there is that boundary line of line,....when her behavior starts becoming abusive to me? If in her managing herself...and the demands that places on me due to her expectations that I can do what is not in my power to do, she..will always see me, as the source for how she feels..and blame me...for not "making it alright for her" and see me and her environment...as the "cause" for all of this? This goes right back to what I said earlier. I am the "cause" of some things that is for sure. But in reality, no one can cause everything all the time...in how you feel about yourself or how you feel insice postive or negative? There is just no way....for that to be possible...but if someone actually bleives this, then it's a waste of time to discuss this otherwise? She is still not hearing a single word I say, because she is working off a conclusion, that has been incorrect or wrong for her entire life? If she were to come to the conclusion that I have found for myself, she would have no abilities or skills in this area, to do anything about that herself? Not to the level or critical tolerances that she has come to beleive are things on the outside of her...that are making her feel this way? The fact is...in how I am seeing this....that about that 10% factor I was using as in the example of Lance Armstrong winning the race...is really what that accounts for..in applying to other people or things on the outside of you that cause you not to feel good yourself? The other 90% ...is actually all just you and nothing else? And in the same way, I can say the same thing about me? About 90% of how I feel about anything, is all about me and has nothing to do with anyone including my wife? Taking the Addrall...just boosted my ability...to take up the slack for that 10%...which raised my potential to 100%....from 90% before? I really feel that the 80%- 90% I was doing before...was putting nearly that much efffort into it in a 1 to 1 relationship? And 80 90 % ...was at my maximum capacity and I had no more to give than that? The Adderall...just boosted my potential...but I still have to put in the same effort as before ( nothing is earier in that respect ) but now my score will read 90 - 100% where before it was only 80 -90% efficient..stating it that way as means to compare it to? My best, really was 80-90% compared to everyone else...but for me that was 100%..and all I had to give? And the rest I tried to make up for...in the best way I knew how at the time? With literally no intention in harming or causing distress for anyone else? I was just trying to manage and cope in what I had found that worked...and until I found something to replace that...I continued using the same way I knew? And really, more than anything else...it si not truing to find soemthing brand new and completely different...but learning how to do it better...or improve on it, without throwing the bably out with the bath water? There are some things I had to do or start from scratch on....but not most of them...and most of them just needed more work...and just improving on what I already have? This is not about....becoming a "different person". That seems to be a common misconception...that this is what you have to do? You become different ...only in how you behave and where you put your focus on.. but that is just changing your mind...and changing what you bleive more than anything else? A conscious act...with intention....is what makes those changes? I am still the same person I have always been, but my beliefs and what I know...is the only thing that has really changed? I have come head on into this one aspect that still puzzels me with my wife? If she doesn't...."feel like" doing something, then she simply doesn't do it? That is the one thing, that baffles even me to this very day and I don't have that concept in my repertoire of thinking, that can explain that one to me? A mystery...still yet unknown...but with a reason that I am not privy to exactly...in order to understand that and put that in it's proper place? In fact...as I recall going all the way back to my earliest recollection and remembering was...I didn't like most of the things I had to do....but I did them anyway, because that is what was required of me?? That is all I know? So I don't understand anything outside of that very well speaking only for myself and no one esle? I accepted that as just the way things are...and that is really all I know when it comes that "thing" that baffles me endlessly with my wife with no offerings what so ever, as to why that is????
J
J, wow, a lot of thought
Submitted by dedelight4 on
J, I"m still working through this, because there's a lot in here, in what you wrote. I've read this through twice, then re-reading part by part. Questions here: I was especially interested about the example of your wife's inability to see certain things about herself, as if she's being carried down a stream unwillingly with no power of her own, and she's being controlled by all outside "sources". (paraphrasing badly, sorry) I saw this in my husband this weekend.
We had a long talk, arguing, talking, and I HATE that anything I'm saying may sound accusatory to him, or that it makes him feel bad, even when he's asking me why I feel a certain way, and I'm trying to explain it as simply as possible without using demeaning words or 'hurtful" phrases, etc. He TAKES everything as if I"m attacking him, when I'm only expressing MY feelings so that he has a better understanding of me. (it doesn't seem like he "gets" this) I don't use the words, "You made me feel this way", and I specifically don't use those types of phrases. The verbal communication IS very hard. He almost needs things explained like I had to with our girls when they were toddlers. It's frustrating. And, he DOES feel like life has just played this terrible trick on him, because he's so "smart", but he can't seem to make LIFE happen.
I have brought up ADHD counseling for us TOGETHER, which he seriously balks at. He really doesn't want to get 'into" that, because he doesn't see it affecting our relationship that much. But, if he won't, I can't continue to stay here and do this.
Something else happened though and it almost sent me over the top, to which i'm already overwhelmed. His inability to verbalize much of anything is difficult, yes, and blame is the first thing he uses, for EVERYTHING. Someone, or something else HAD to have done that, when I know that many times, his ADHD and effect, caused the problem. I've overlooked years of this, to my own frustration level of popping.
He is very, very klutsy, and breaks almost everything he touches because he's so rough with things, and/or in such a hurry with everything, he breaks it from rushing. Anyway, he broke the dishwasher from being rough on it, (expensive one) so he bought a new part to fix it, and then broke the PART, trying to fix the already broken dishwasher, which now it's broken again, and he won't spend the money to hire a professional to come and fix it. Now, it's going to cost even more, for another new part, with possibly having it broken a 3rd time because he won't "spend the money on a professional". This will end up costing us more money in the long run, by doing it this way, than if he called someone in the beginning. This happens with almost EVERYTHING. And, there is a long list of things he's broken by just being "too rough".
Our house is now filled with all the "broken" things he's broken from being rough, klutzy and stubborn and not wanting to admit he CAN'T fix something by himself. This was also after him having broken the kitchen sink (the cold water part of the faucet), because he wanted to put a water filter on the faucet. (another expensive item) So, the filter isn't working, the faucet is broken and the water part of the sink doesn't work. I have to get water from the bathroom to make coffee and cook with. Doors and locks are broken, and computer equipment, and the glass screen door he put in is now falling down, and the folding doors to our laundry room he broke off "accidentally", while trying to do laundry. As a woman and a wife, who has worked hard to clean and maintain our home, I can only NOW handle so "much" broken stuff, without crying.
After talking for a while, and letting him say what he wanted to say, he finally said he doesn't know WHY he's this way, and why he breaks everything, and is SO STUBBORN about everything, and why his mind 'works' the way it does. I could tell it bothered him a lot. I was afraid to say anything at that point, because he was admitting something about himself that he almost never does. (but it was the truth, and I was glad he said it, if only to allow himself to hear his own mouth say the words) I KNOW it has to be hurtful for him to break almost everything he touches, but there has GOT to be some way to allow him to handle this, without "loosing face", and without me just having to "deal with it" substituting and or just always having "broken stuff' around the house to use, with no way to get replacements any longer, since now we are in SUCH an enormous financial bind. We have to fix up the house, because at this point it must be sold due to our finances. It's in such disrepair, mainly from his "projects" that he kept doing and left half finished which have now fallen into worse shape and MUST be fixed. He is ADAMANT about not calling in professionals to fix some of these things. He doesn't visually "see" most of the disrepair, unless it's like "in his face" type of thing.
He thinks can live with it, because he's continually saying how smart he is and that he is a genius with a genius "IQ", which I"ve heard hundreds of times. I think he's trying to make himself feel better by doing this, but just having a genius IQ doesn't mean he can fix a sink, or fix a dishwasher. HE CAN'T. I think he want's to do something RIGHT, so bad, that he is trying anything and everything to just do SOMETHING RIGHT. I again, tried to talk about the ADHD, and the "instead of trying harder, let's try different, and that WE NEED OUTSIDE HELP".
He was BORN with an exceptional IQ, and school was super easy for him, he didn't have to work at it a day in his LIFE. He got straight A's from kindergarten through his PhD, but, then when real life happened to him, is was LIFE he couldn't handle, because up till that point, he didn't have to "work" at anything, because school, tests, and things came so easy. Work, family, and life was what he couldn't handle. So, when he does things "like you said about yourself ", by himself, he feels better or maybe "safer".
Okay, J, the breaking and fixing stuff, is just one example: and. I have more, but I just found this particular subject fascinating. Plus on the physical side, it's just plain....................(whew) exhausting. And, he's still trying to come up with even more NEW projects to start on the house, without fixing all the broken things, which need to be tended to first.
We did sit down and make a list. (yea) which was good. And, he did clean up some things I did ask him to in the back yard, which also was a first.
I'm sorry, if I sound like I'm rambling, which I probably am. I'm in the middle of a house, where everywhere I look something is torn, broken, piles of computers, and equipment, dirt, cobwebs, and I'm doing my best to clean. IT'S HARD AS HECK AND PHYSICALLY EXHAUSTING.
I know I've mentioned this
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I know I've mentioned this before, but I want to say it again here that I can relate to your situation, dedelight4. I also live in a house in which many things are broken and many projects were started but not finished. I have the advantage of now being the home's sole owner (and thus the sole decision-maker) and having some money to use for repairs but there are some major problems for which I haven't yet bit the bullet and hired someone to do repairs or renovation. When I can afford to hire someone to fix something, it feels good, I admit, to do this act that my ex rarely "allowed" us to do. He insisted on trying to fix things. Often he was successful. Often he wasn't, but he resisted asking or paying for help.
IT'S HARD AS HECK AND PHYSICALLY EXHAUSTING.
Submitted by kellyj on
Dede, I could really get into this and explain in a lot of detail how I got to be the way I am? But I've been really working on ( self editing myself ) in how I communicate simply...because that is a problem for my wife? The fact is though, this has been a problem for me too in my life, but only with certain people and not others? That's not me saying it's still not a problem....just because it's Okay with some people and that is not my goal in saying it. My goal, if there is one, is to be able to speak effectively with anyone and eliminate this problem all together? And the biggest reason for that is so that people will listen to me more than anything else? That has always been the problem for me especially, but I have found answers to this more recently that seem to fit what I know and have experienced throughout my life along with my know history to throw in there to help tell the tale?
When I was an infant and into my early childhood, I had extreme and severe middle ear infections ( chronic ) that I can't even begin to tell you how horrible those are? These are not the "outer ear" kind of ear ache...but "inner and middle" ear ones which would equate to a "sinus infection" if you have ever had one? The kind that every heart beat "throbs" with extreme pain..and with the ear infections...I remember I could actually hear my heart, pounding in my ears? Like Chinese water torture. I have vague memories as an infant, waking up screaming in agony ( blips or flashes as an infant like maybe 2 inside my crib ) that I can still picture and remember in kind a surreal image where you're not sure if that was a night mare or the real thing? I know in this case it was the real thing and these continued for years until I was in grade school when I had my last one which I do remember that clearly as the being the end of those which have never happened again?
I also have one eye with what is known as Amblioplia ( an astigmatism ) that means one eye is much stronger than the other and I tend to see more out of one eye automatically because of it?
Which means as a really small kid, I couldn't hear hardly anything until I got older and my hearing improved with age. I couldn't see very well in respect to reading which was really difficult for me to do at first..and I had a lot of trouble with language and speech since this hearing loss ( even though it got better and improved ) really effected my developmental speech patterns and communicating was simply difficult for me ( as I remember ) and it was hard to make people understand me when I talked? To the point of embarrassment and self esteem issues and even having a bit of a stutter. Actually, it wasn't stuttering...it was stammering. More like a "blithering idiot" if you will? At least, that's what I sounded like I think? Which is why people wouldn't listen to me, or take me very seriously when I spoke? Not being able to hear people so could understand them, and not being able to read easily "letters and words" which I did not pick up on right away either....I use to draw pictures and I did that insensately like there was no tomorrow!! My mom had to buy me bulk, typing paper in 500 sheet packets because I drew pictures as I thought of them? Anything I could dream up or fantasize about in my head...I would draw them none stop ..which I feel at this time, was me desperately trying to express myself and communicate since words and being able to understand them was extremely difficult for me?
When I first went to pre-school...I will always remember this first time we were all asked to draw a picture and I drew a cow on a farm if you can imagine a child doing so? My mom kept that picture, because the teacher sent it home with me with a big gold star on it and seemed to make a big deal about it? What I saw later when I looked at it was what my teacher saw and I didn't? It had perspective, depth, and distances and things were in 3D not flat, like most child's drawings were? In fact, ALL other kids drawings looked the same...except for mine? Which means, I could see that in my mind or else I wouldn't have drawn it? No one taught me this, I just drew what I saw in my imagination but it stood out as unusual compared to everyone else?
So in respect to Artistic talent...my drawings weren't more or less...better than anyone else's? I didn't have any special knack...for the actual drawing of the picture part? What I had, was the gift of "sight"...since that was just there already...way ahead of any other kid at the time? That was the talent or gift...that I had and thanks to some folks here on this forum...I was pointed to what is known as a Paradoxical Brain? This I feel, I was born with or maybe, developed in response to my diminished ability to hear and see things well? Or, in conjunction with ADHD ..plus those other adversities...I simply don't know? Maybe I was born that way too? Who knows?
But the other fact of interest to me, was the fact that I had really good balance, really good reflexes ( extremely fast reflexes...extremely (scary) FAST!! LOL ), and very good eye hand coordination from my earliest remembrances and this was commented on early by my family and parents? These were all just things I was born with and needed no one to help me learn to become that way.....I just was that way, making the same point?
When I consider this, I consider the saying "water seeks it's own level or origin"..and "nature abhors a vacuum". Both of those sayings might account for what happened with me? When ever there is adversity..and things that are hard and challenging for you....we tend to exert more energy and force in that direction to compensate for it? If things are extremely hard..and you have to do them anyway...you are going to have a lot of broken or failed attempts until you get it right? Persistent repeated attempts over and over..with one singular goal which is simply to reach it or "get there". Just like water...it will find the path of least resistance and follow it until it reaches it's equilibrium point and until then, it will leak, seethe, or wick it's way along that path until it finally gets there? Gravity, is always working as a means to make water move? And inside your body, you body when it's growing ( inside the womb ) and outside of the womb the same rules apply until you stop growing? You have almost to very little control of any of that outside of nutrition and exercise or any physical activity you could name?
I fully believe this now..and this was completely outside of my awareness at the time....but with what I do remember about my early adversities....I believe my motivation ( unconsciously ) was to enable myself to communicate and to be heard? Being given this ability of "sight" or seeing in 3D....made me want to communicate what I saw, but I couldn't and I couldn't get people to listen to me since I couldn't speak or hear well? If I connect all of this together now as I just did...you can see the logic and the possibilities in what I just said I think? It does make sense...plus...I have mt own sense to add into it? That has been a mystery to me, for my entire life..and this explanation is the best one so far?
There is also what I'm calling the "Boomerang Effect"...where you struggle and struggle to ( get a lid off a jar ) and then suddenly...it gives or snaps, or breaks free..and then you can open it? But not until you apply enough force, for long enough for that to happen? How many times have you handed a jar like that to someone and they just open it like there was nothing to it? That's the Boomerang Effect that I am talking about here?
Oh, and one more thing to add in here? Instead of talking..I use to "act things out" or use my "hands" to describe things almost exclusively along with talking? Both at the same time. Very animated you might say ...and expressing myself, always involved physical gestures and movement? I am a very "physical guy" you might say and I have been this way, since I can first remember? Tactile, touching everything...my most common form of reprimand use against me "Don't touch!!! " Did I listen? NO!! LOL It's how I became familiar with my world...with no other means available to me? But the fact is...I was pretty shy and didn't talk much...that was a fact. Vocally...I was quiet as a mouse and that is a fact.
So what is hard? I remember using that word with my T..and he would dive into a 30 minute dissertation of the word hard and I would sit and listen to him? And then it would come up again...and then again..and I finally stopped him and said...."you know, you've told me this before ( I heard him the first time ) and then I said "I'm not sure why you are telling me this dissertation...but, I don't see the word Hard....meaning Can't..which is the message or point you keep making to me? As if, that is how I see the word Hard???? ( scratching my head???? ) So I said..." if that's the concern here...then this repeating that dissertation is starting to become annoying!! " LOL And he looked at me and went.."Okay, fair enough...I won't need to do that one again." And the point is...he didn't need to do that with me? "Hard" is just a word to describe something that is difficult or takes a lot of effort or work to get there? And I'm no stranger to that...so that is not a problem? Like...so what? No big deal? LOL Honestly, before he kept repeating that...I never gave that much thought...but once it started to become annoying ( like..I get it...I get it (the first TIME!!!)...quit already!!! LOL ) ....I never realized my relationship with the word Hard before?
So in respect to not being able to hear very well, and not being able to speak very well.....and in referencing this Pardoxical effect that has on you automatically....you by default...become very good at listening instead? If you hardly talk at all and just quietly exist kind of trapped inside you head....then by default...your hearing skills get practiced and even heightened I woudl say? That part of communication, learning and understanding in communication...I think I learned early without the ability to express myself..any other way? With me, everything was physical..and taking things apart and putting them back together was how I learned things at a very early age? That, combined with good eye hand coordination which I feel was a result of all of this together as a whole picture to see just how I got here?
And in mentioning you H...I did pick up one thing you said Dede? Your husbands mentioning he has a high IQ? In respect to what I said? How do you show someone you have a high IQ? You really can't, there are few ways to prove that unless you take a test? It think in part....there is knowledge....and then there is "application" if you will? I was BIG on application...if you can see it that way? That is how I approach things, since that is how I got wired early on? "Hard" just goes with the territory...when you do things the "Hard Way"? LOL I've got to tell you, I am an expert on that method!!! LOL ( nothing to be proud of...to say the least lol )
I just stumbled accross and really interesting article Dede. I think this might help explain....why it's so hard to change? Change is in essence....growing , advancing and moving forward? A more conservative approach...might be considered, more in favor of things staying the same? And a more radical ( or risky approach ) would be to "trail blaze" and go off the path..and make your own road instead? One..is easier than the other....no doubt in my mind what so ever? I always picked the short cut through the woods...instead of staying on the road!! LOL It is what I'm good at, with a whole lot of experience behind me. To say the least? Adversity...can be seen from a negative stand point...or a positive one...depending on your experience with it? Know what I mean? I guess you could say...I was less interested in how you got there.....just getting there no matter what was all I cared about? And I am no different now....than when I was 3 or 4 years old? In that respect, some things never change?
https://medium.com/procurement-tidbits/procurements-technological-insani...
J
The Maritime Rule of Tonnage
Submitted by kellyj on
In the article I included in at the bottom of my last comment ( a really good one..if you replace all those things said..and apply them to a "person" or individual instead ) there was an analogy used about a oil tanker which sparked my memory of another application used in the Maritime Manual....that has to do with "right of way".
"Organizations, especially large ones, can also be compared to oil tankers. Because of their large size and weight, oil tankers are extremely tough to pilot. A change of direction given by the captain on the wheel does not immediately alter the route of the ship. It takes a long time to see the ship turn."
The Rule of Tonnage:
Ton·nage
[ˈtənij]
NOUN
weight in tons, especially of cargo or freight:
"road convoys carry more tonnage"
the size or carrying capacity of a ship measured in tons.
shipping considered in terms of total carrying capacity:
"the port's total tonnage"
Which basically states, that between two vessels converging on a vector course and a collision would result if one does not change course, the Law of Tonnage says the smaller of the two....must give right of way even under the circumstances, by any other means available, the smaller vessel "should" have the right of way instead? Should've, would've, could've.....doesn't matter when you are dead? Or crushed into pieces, because you thought you had the right of way and didn't consider this overriding Law....that is always universally true? In fact, it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out does it? LOL ( no matter what the rule book or law book says? )
I guess you could say "the bigger you think you are....the harder you fall? " LOL I just made that up, but it sounds good to me?
J
Why Do Poeple Keep Repeating the Same Mistakes
Submitted by kellyj on
Dede, if you haven't glanced at that article I included in my response, you may also want to take a look at this and see if this resonates with you? It did with me and I think there is a lot of good information here? A possible template to use for yourself and in seeing the mistakes people make when trying to initiate change.
https://medium.com/procurement-tidbits/procurements-technological-insani...