Submitted by PoisonIvy on 05/18/2014.
I think the core disagreement in my marriage stems from the things that one of us does or believes in that the other doesn't. I believe that problems must be talked about and addressed; my husband doesn't. My husband believes it's OK to shut down communication with me (i.e., not talking or texting for weeks at a time); I don't think this is OK.
Do you have a core problem or difference? What is it?
Ditto
Submitted by jennalemon on
Same here. In fact I think it is boyish and impish and cowardly to not talk over a game plan when you are on a team. Letting a teammate try to assume and make the plans and take the fall (because there is someone on the team ignoring (and sometimes sabotaging) the game plans). Get off the team if you don't want to be on it, I say....Don't make me kick your ineffective butt off and then act like I am a meanie.
Besides his almost abusive
Submitted by copingSAH on
Besides his almost abusive control of the finances, which I can deal with a little better than the following: He has a major BLOCK when it comes to his immediate family (us). It's almost like the wires just short circuit.
ADD dh rarely rarely ever agrees to go anywhere that I suggest, or express an interest in. No vacations, no getaways except the rare overnight trip in the dead of winter to a LOCAL hotel (with pool) with the kids, then it's back home the next morning. We don't even leave the hotel. He won't even go into the pool because he thinks I'm running the show and he refuses to be a team player. This happens consistently when we are lucky enough (unlucky enough) to arrive at a new venue, park, beach, many places where I'm the one trying to get the family out but he refuses to enjoy himself. But he'll be back to "normal" as soon as we are all deflated by his belligerence and back in the car going home... once he sat 2 hours on the beach in his long jeans, never once going into the water with the children, who didn't know how to swim and could have used some support.
Nobody sees this behavior at all because my dh can go at a moment's if there is an extended family crisis - he's taken the initiative to buy himself plane tickets, get to the plane, get there by train, car, what have you. He WILL drop everything to go at a moment's notice for everyone else in the family but NOT for me and our children. I don't get it!!!
I have wanted to go into the city with him for the last several years. Guess what, something came up and he is to go into the city by himself for two weeks. Not only that, but he plans to stay a whole week at a hotel in my dream location and he has just made plans with extended family this evening for dinner and drinks, all WITHOUT US!!!! Of course he is texting me telling me all this "Great News". **sob!!!**
He'll return home and have no idea why we're all feeling left out. and throw it back in our faces that we've spoiled it for him again.
That, is our Great Tragedy.
I've been plagued with guilt whenever I confide in a friend about my dh's ADD as well... but how can I live a lie of this magnitude? Or am I just not clever enough to keep it under wraps?
CopingSAH
Submitted by Sueann on
You've mentioned before that one of your children is autistic. Is it possible he is embarrassed about that or just can't face it? I have two siblings who are mentally challenged. My father acted somewhat like your husband. There were no pictures of them in his office, just me. He went out in public with them as little as possible but we shared my activities. He focused on me to the point of what I might call hyperfocus, and never showed any love to my brother and sister.
I'm sorry for missing your
Submitted by copingSAH on
I'm sorry for missing your post -- thanks for your thoughtful question.
I have thought about it, he seems like he has less issues surrounding them than he does with me. It's the very act of suggesting ANYTHING by me that seems to get his hackles up. There's a defensiveness, rage attack, threatened attitude that is really out of proportion. I have had two people from my past react with anger instead of mindfulness, one a narcissist, and the other a psychopath so I've been surrounded by angry males all my life it seems :)
DH talks about us glowingly to others but he spend much less time with them at home than normal, and even less time with me, so our friends/family are not really getting the "full picture" of things... I may come back to edit this or respond more fully later. There's a kind of imbalanced balance we live.... the good blocks out the bad, the bad overshadows the good. e.g. when it's good, it's wonderful. when it's bad, it's devastating.
Great Tragedy from my view...
Submitted by c ur self on
The desire to control and manipulate, and the refusal and denial to see herself...Just today, I had to call her bluff, she and I set down in the doctor's office to wait for her to be called back...we were side by side in chairs...I pulled out my iphone, and was doing some stuff, and she started quietly talking, so I looked up and gave her my attention...after a moment of dialog I went back to what I was doing. The couch across from us was empty, and out of my perifial vision i saw her move over there. I just kept doing what I was doing. She quietly spoke to me and when I looked up she said, move over here so we can talk...I said, I'm comfortable and we were talking fine here...So she started stewing...She came back in a bit to the chair beside me, and said something a little snotty, (we always go into the doctor office together) like she didn't want me to go back with her...I said fine by me...and kept on with what i was doing, in a bit, she decided I should go...so she settled down....But, the reason for this story is, i have to always be on guard for this type behavior, and it's quiet sad :(...that it''s this away....
Hmm, from the outside looking in. . . . . .
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
c ur self,
I read this post and here is what I wonder:
1. do you think she was affected by your attention to your I Phone rather than to her? You stated that "after a moment of dialog, I went back to what I was doing."
Communication is not just verbal - by moving away, she seemed to communicate volumes.
Our whole world seems to be dominated by opinions on etiquette over "hand held communication devices."
I am just on the outside looking in - so I am assuming nothing on the agreement you and her may already have in place. Just a thought on what my first impression was when I read your post.
My personal view - agreements need to be made between couples regarding inviting a third person - the cell phone - along on dates/appointments/dinners/discussions.
Hi Exhausted...
Submitted by c ur self on
Excellent point...and I agree, that is why I put my iPhone to rest when she wanted to talk...The picture I was making or attempting to is it's OK for her to do Facebook for an hour or watch Netflix for hours or what ever she desires...But, if she see's me make a choice about something or see's me at peace doing just anything, doesn't matter what...it may be watching a ball game or reading a book...doesn't matter...If she is bored or decides she wants that time from me, the kids, anyone she is comfortable with, she will always try to manipulate or take control the situation to force her will on others...Its such a habit...she will do it and not recognize it...You are right about cell's, computer's etc...They should have their place, but, it should never dominate or hinder our respect and time we share....Thanks for your comment....
There is no right or wrong
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
c ur self,
I was by no means making you out to be in the wrong.
Every agreements has situational tweeks. Such as, if my spouse and I have a basic agreement to not talk on the cell phones while we are in the car, how rude would it be for me to expect him to stay off the phone if I fell asleep? LOL, while he is driving, of course.
Some times we just like the undivided attention, even if it is only to hold our hand while we sit waiting in a doctor's office.
I guess maybe something got lost in how I wrote my reply.
I don't get it
Submitted by kathy6521 on
I honestly don't see what you were doing wrong.
A thought
Submitted by tfarmer on
Hi. I am the husband of an ADHD wife as well. One observation that I have made, that unfortunately seems to keep being reinforced is that my wife's behavior seems to be based much more on instinct than reason. In reading this post I was struck by how similar your description of this interaction was to the way my dog acts. I think it has a lot to do with the nature of the coping mechanism that has developed over the years. A sort of neurological autopilot. Belieieve me, I am not trying to offend or berate anyone and I would love to have someone prove me wrong. But for the life of me this parallel seems to be valid. Have you had any thoughts in that regard?
Dogs
Submitted by jennalemon on
I have often thought that dh was more like a runaway beagle, motivated by the moment's smells and his own private juices that I was not privy to. I had once been a proud, young, friendly collie full of creativity and joy and faith and community - a team player. Now I have become an exasperated sheep dog.
The beagle gets to have the fun of the chases (not looking back and not planning ahead). The shepherd dog was once proud of the work she was doing but now, looking back, sees her herding was fruitless. She was supporting his running around in circles.
Great Observation tfarmer!
Submitted by kellyj on
I just caught your post and I had another one of those moments when something "clicks". I never responded to your question concerning your wife from a different thread but I have meant to since I have some ideas on that too (I'll go back to it later)
But....you hit on something that I have noticed about myself and have come to a very similar conclusion....you are very observant (and analytical ) I must say
Yes.....I definitely think you are on to something. This is what I have recently learned based on what I know about myself.
I have always had an artistic ( not autistic..I joke about this quite often lol) talent that showed up very early when I was a child. I work in an artistic field as well which suits this ability and a strength of mine. That and esthetics in general.......I came to the conclusion simply out of observation that the ability to draw, sketch, paint or create art....is simply the ability to visualize something and then recreate the image in your head like copying a photograph ( the one in your mind ) I also have a very photographic memory which is how I made it through school. I may not have been able to understand the concept but I could remember the page and paragraph that I read the answer in and just copy it to a test. I always felt that this was cheating in some way. weird?
I also recently looked up the correlation between hearing loss and ADHD ( I was born with a mild to moderate hearing disability....don't need hearing aids until just recently while watching TV....as courtesy to others in the room)
I discovered a number of similarities to children with some form of deafness and ones with ADHD especially how they learn (visually) and how their brain during development...wires it's focus on using vision predominantly instead of auditory (which makes sense).
Where this gets really interesting (for me at least) is in theory.....this vision get re-wired to a high degree of peripheral acuity as a form of primitive survival ie:can't hear predators sneaking up behind you so focus gets redirected to peripheral stimulus instead of center focus that is the norm for most people. This would account for so many things with me it isn't even funny...
not noticing things right in front of my face but noticing everything around me. OMG yes!
innate abilities in SA (situational awareness) scary good at times when this is necessary like playing sports (noticing movements and positions of other players on the field and where they are at the same time)....driving a car or riding a motorcycle (catching things out the corner of my eye alerting me to danger at intersections and other cars movements) spotting movement and noticing things that other people seem to miss regularly in general.
This explained so much about myself that I always knew ( and noticed how I was different) without knowing the reasons why.
But there is one more thing that is both funny and interesting to add to this in reference to what you said about dogs.
I have always loved dogs and owned them all my life (still do (2)) And dogs have always loved me too.....even mean ones that don't like anybody. At my work....the owners have a Dachsund that can be really ornery with everyone aside from me ( and he's not even my dog?) They bring him to work every day and he's kind of the store mascot. One of my duties at work is to trim the dogs nails and brush his teeth because he won't let anyone do this aside from me without trying to bite them including his owners. They call me the "dog wisperer" as a joke ( I don't call myself that or think of myself as that in any way) I just like dogs.
But I have noticed one thing that dogs and I do very much have in common ( this is something I have known for a very long time). We both watch and notice things very carefully and in the same way. Our attention to stimulus and movement are very much alike. I hear people say things like...."my dog is so smart....I don't know how they know things sometimes." I can tell you why.....their senses are so much better than ours and they use them to a high degree especially their ability to focus (pin point focus) on movement or and object ....or you.....and they are incredibly observant of just about everything. They just pay very close attention to things and are highly aware of their surrounding all the time. I am very much like a dog in this way without trying to be. It just comes naturally.
But....it is directed in very specific ways and not in others seemingly....all or nothing. Is any of this starting to make sense or sound familiar?
It does seem very clear to me that I have some innate differences in the way my brain is wired which is similar to dogs instinctual programming. I don't know any more about this or have any source (other than me) to back this up or verify it in any way other than the fact that I have made these observations about my self throughout my life as appearing different or unexplainable compared to others sometimes. Most of the time.....these observations came from other people too. I've just heard them for so long and over such a long period of time that I can string them al together to make these statements.... and once I became aware of this.....I know see it in myself all the time. It's just the norm that I have lived with all my life so for me......it just seems like business as usual.
Much of this has come up recently because I have been trying so hard to find better ways to manage my ADHD.....one area is my ability to communicate. I find it impossible to communicate without references, examples or metaphors sometimes because I see things (visually in my head) and then try and communicate this into words. Take "a picture says a thousand words" and now go backwards to: "it takes a thousand words to say a picture"
That's me all over the place. ha ha
You appear to have an ability to accurately observe things yourself. I commented on this before and now it appears to be showing true again. I would run with your intuition if I were you....you appear to be batting 1000 so far.
J
One More Thing to Add....
Submitted by kellyj on
I also find it interesting that both you (in your reference apologetically) saying that you hope this doesn't offend....and in the tone that the other "dog" references that were made (somewhat derogatory?) here in this thread.
I find this fascinating.
The things I just referred to in my post I can only see as advantages or gifts. I love this aspect about myself and even being compared to dogs for the reasons I mentioned about having qualities similar to dogs abilities that far exceed humans in every way.
This aspect of how others perceive these qualities as a negative as they experience them and relate them to themselves does appear to big a big difference in perception and quite possibly accounts for people with ADHD simply not seeing themselves as others see them. Not only do I not see my "dog like" similarities as offensive but at times even see them as somewhat complimentary because I know all the benefits I get from having these qualities.....except.....
where it affects others negatively.......that where all the problems come from.
I told my wife that f I had the choice of not having ADHD and loosing these abilities.....I would choose to keep my ADHD since they have served me so well in so many aspect of my life it would be like asking me to take off my left arm to not having ADHD.
She gave me a somewhat confused and dirty look at the same time. ha ha I'm laughing not at her but at the connections to the comment that she could not see.
And that is the bottom line here......becoming aware of how the abilities and positive parts of having ADHD (which comprise everything about you good and bad) can appear as only bad from the side of the person who is most affected by it.
To have empathy from either side.....it is very important to keep this in mind.
You can't just take the bad parts away without removing the good parts too. That's what would be helpful to everyone here on the non-ADHD side of this.
On our side of this.....it is mandatory that we see these things especially how our good qualities appear many times as bad ones and then be considerate and empathetic to everyone else once we realize how they many times affect others negatively.
It's not about trying to get rid of or stop having ADHD...it's about managing the good aspects to include others so hey don't become bad for everyone.
This is the part about taking responsibility that is so hard to see at first from our side. Where we deny that there is anything wrong with us simply because it doesn't FEEL like there is anything wrong with us. I still don't feel this except when people get angry with me......I hate this more than anything I wished it weren't so.
Taking responsibility for my ADHD is being able to stand back and see everything that I just said and doing something about it....I am the one not in the norm......but there is also the aspect about this that I absolutely love too... just need to fnd better ways to control it and keep it a positive for everyone at the same time including my wife (especially).
Hope this makes sense. It does to me (obviously)......but I'm also very used to this not making sense to everyone else so I always assume that it doesn't.
thanks again for your comments....they are so helpful to me in seeing this.
J
Quoting JJamieson: I
Submitted by copingSAH on
Quoting JJamieson: I discovered a number of similarities to children with some form of deafness and ones with ADHD especially how they learn (visually) and how their brain during development...wires it's focus on using vision predominantly instead of auditory (which makes sense). [end quote]
My child is autistic/ADHD, his auditory/hearing presents some issues. Largely non-verbal, he will echo the last word that people speak. So for instance, if I ask him if he wants a cookie or a piece of candy? He will always respond with the last word heard, which is "candy", when it's not really clear if he'd rather have the cookie. So I have to be careful with presenting things in that fashion. I have to VISUALLY hold out a cookie in one hand, candy in the other, and have my child choose. VISUALLY, he understands. When he was a toddler, I felt anything he heard in conversations, the television or radio, most likely sounded like nothing but a series of garbled static-like noises to him.
As for my ADD spouse. As an adult, it always seemed to me he hears the first sentence, and takes that as the singular thought, but nothing much after that. So that might explain why most of the frustrated spouses mention their AD/HD spouses would deny ever having discussed a project the day before. Spouse definitely seems to do better when I am texting in precise terms, (i.e. under 150 characters).
Also, the first thing in the morning, with sincerity, I tell my spouse I appreciate him. I know he's doing his best and he's a really kind and thoughtful person in his gestures and that we all care for him and each other. I think something like this, spoken from the heart, does wonders for the AD/HD spouse (and non-ADHDer!). Short and simple and it takes him through the day in a wave of good feelings. I think with all the poor coping skills of having to deflect criticism all their lives, it is probably a real HIGH to receive praise first thing in the day when they are probably at their most receptive. It goes almost without saying for me, my most challenging interactions with him are beginning late morning and later in the day, when ADD spouse is starting to experience some type of "overload" in his brain.
Great Insight copingSAH
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted t comment on a couple of speculations you made....not to correct or defend....but to answer them as I have for myself in part.....it may possibly be some more insight for you too?
As an adult, it always seemed to me he hears the first sentence, and takes that as the singular thought, but nothing much after that. So that might explain why most of the frustrated spouses mention their AD/HD spouses would deny ever having discussed a project the day before.
While I was researching the hearing loss in children, I ran across a couple things that really struck me as an some real hard answesrs about myself that fit extremely well with me.
The first one is visual noise. Deaf children (and adults) have sensitivity to certain visual stimulus that become distracting while they are trying to concentrate or pay attention. Piercings, facial expressions, moles, tatoos.....anything that can draw attention away from the listener that distract them from actually getting the information they need.
With me it's looking people straight into their eyes when I'm really focusing on what they are saying. I look down or away when i'm really listening or wanting to concentrate on what they are saying. This appears to be the exact opposite to the other person who is talking. I've had people actually get offended and tell me to look them in the eye as a show of respect while they were talking to me ( these people also had some personal issues.FYI). Most people may just ask me If I heard them or was following (understandably) and I might say something like "oh, I'm sorry"....and I'll repeat back what they said so they can tell I was listening and then try a redirect my eyes to theirs. They don't need to point this out to me as the previous example since I already know that I do this.
The bottom line is that I start getting fixated in peoples eyes too much and start noticing they're eyes more than hearing what they are saying. This becomes really problematic with very attractive women. It may appear that I am being shy but it's actually just a worse case of the thing I just said.
I definitely suffer from visual noise and this explains this very well for me.
The other thing that I ran across was "inattential deafness". This really explained a lot to the comment you made. If my attention is focused on something visual (anything).....the percentage of my brain that gets divided between auditory and visual which is already predominantly visual.....what little is left (brain focus) drops even further to where the information ( even though I can actually hear it and respond to it out of habit....usually saying "yes") never makes it past a pont in my brain to get pushed forward into memory or even conceptual understanding of what is being said. Another way of describing this as appearing to be "stoned". I've had people ask me before "are you high?" I usually respond by saying "no, but I wish I were" as a joke. I've come to realize that it's not because I look stoned but because of this partial awareness to the things that they say or me asking them repeat it so I can hear it again to get it clear what they said.
Sometimes I know my hearing isn't perfect and I don't actually catch things people say....but this only happens when I have visual noise or am glancing at something that catches my eye for a moment. I literally can't hear the other person and miss parts of what they say. Literally as if I were deaf.
When I realized all of this I started to watch myself and I discovered that when I look down or away to listen and really focus and concentrate......I'm actually looking at a blank spot on the floor, a blank spot in the sky with no clouds, or a blank spot on the wall with nothing else in them during these examples. It's the next best thing to closing my eyes which I also do without realizing it when I'm doing things like math problems in my head or playing my guitar and concentrating very hard on listening to the sounds it makes.
The last thing I wanted to say was about the criticism and praise. For me it works like this and I've said these words before many times. "I don't need a brownie button for a job well done or a gold star on my homework for motivation" ( I can hear the sarcasm myself here in these words) I now realize that yes.......living and growing up with constant criticism = negativetiy......and defending yourself from it, it makes you both....hyper-sensitive to it eventually, and always on guard to hear it from everywhere all the time. You start to become very aware of its sources and the ability to pre-predict it in most cases by how people behave around you and their body language. You become so good at this that you can duck it most of the time without even being aware you do. And when you can't duck it or avoid it and you have to live with it day by day....you start to become saturated with it very quickly. Anger ramps this process up in a hurry. ( anger is just the concentrated version of negatively) And if you can't duck it, avoid it, move away from it, talk your way around it, deny it, look away from it........that's when you blow up. It's the consistency and constancy of negativity that permeates you not just the anger....the anger is just the cherry on top or the straw that breaks the camels back.
In my case....I've learned to live with a fair amount of negativity and have come to expect it in my life. I've got a very long fuse but when it hits it's end....it blows up just the same ( just not that often compared to when I was in my youth or early adult)
So.........positive words and positive disposition in others including my wife doesn't' get me HIGH.....it tells me it's safe to put my guard down and relax and feel good when I'm at home. That's where the "brownie button" comment comes from. I'm not wanting to know that I am appreciated as much as I want to know that I am safe from negativity which only serves to put me on edge in "fight r flight" mode. Positivity in others is my gage that I can take a vacation from fight or flight and that's what feels good. I guess you could say it a "HIGH'.....but for me, it's just the feeling to live without worry or fear which is really all I want. I don't need to told I'm appreciated or valued in excess but it is nice to hear from time to time as well.
I hope this explains the distinction and again.....I'm only speaking for myself.
J
Thanks JJamieson,
Submitted by copingSAH on
Thanks JJamieson,
I had to take a day or two to digest your post carefully. The part where you talk about the effect of positive words or the "brownie button", made so much sense to me. There are times when my ADD dh says things that appear as if he's constantly fishing for compliments, affirmation, confirmation, pat on the back. He might repeat himself over and over until in exasperation, we all tell him "isn't thanking you half a dozen times enough for you???"
What he says is he doesn't want to hear thanks, he just wants to hear himself saying he's done something good for us. I can see how the AD/HD mind may say things a certain way as a way to feel they did good and can relax and no one is going to criticize them for whatever it is they're doing. For the non-AD/HD person, they hear something different. It sounds as if my spouse is tooting his horn over and over and fishing for a pat on the back. Someone like myself is more the sort where I don't even tell people what I've done. I run the household stuff (or whatever I'm allowed to) without the need to announce it. For me, I do it out of an inclination to make it comfortable for everyone. I do not expect someone to flatter me, nor do I expect to please everyone for what I do.
I suppose how each of us presents causes a "block" in the communication in AD/HD and non-ADHD marriage.
Well, I'd like to write more but I'm in the midst of working through another communication breakdown at home right now.
Thank you for the distinctions you made, JJamieson. Those are pretty valid points. If I have to understand the dynamics between my dh and I, I must at least understand the ADHD thinking. The hardest thing for the non-ADHDer is to NOT take the spouse's confrontational-sounding comments personally.
p.s. I also have a tendency myself to look up to the right when talking to someone. I think it is because I am forming the conversation in my head, or at least trying to construct the subject at hand, so part of my social behavior (eye contact) seems to shut off for a bit, while I visualize it. I think. I usually focus at a point furthest in front of me, a wall, doorway, trees, etc. I think it has irked many acquaintances but I've learned to apologize and explain to them it's involuntary.
I'm Glad this Helps copingSAH
Submitted by kellyj on
As I read your last response I could see myself doing the same thing your husband does too. Another thought came to mind and that is insecurity.
My ex wife would get really irritated when I would point out the things I would do. She would complain that I was being insecure. I really hated that but she was right but not for the reason she thought...which was one of your speculations about "fishing for compliments". I can see that this would be the obvious conclusion. In my case...I was insecure but not because I didn't get compliments (or needed them exactly). I was insecure in the feelings I had that there something wrong but I couldn't fix them....or even know how or where to look. It made me feel helpless and insecure. Most definitely.
If I could return to that moment.....now I would say straight up......"I've tried my best to do (whatever) and it's not working". Instead of the brownie button sarcasm.....I'd say something like " I don't need validation, I only need to know if I am heading in the right direction.....if I'm not, I need you to tell me so."
This is really what I was asking for but couldn't see it for myself. All that fishing was for something but I couldn't tell her what it was......so I just kept fishing for anything that might tell me that I was doing OK and not screwing up. Again, not so much that I needed to know that I (me personally ) was OK....but that what I was literally doing or not doing at the moment (or in general) was OK since the feedback that I was getting was mostly negative.
Negative feedback is like passive aggression......it doesn't actually tell the other person what it is exactly that is bothering you.
All that's left is to guess??
J
My wife told me when we got
Submitted by c ur self on
My wife told me when we got married her Love Language was Affirmation!..I had no idea what a love language was :)...I though a good marriage was just be nice to each other, work hard, and hopefully have lot's of sex ;) You talking about fishing!...What kind of fish can you catch slapping the water with your pole :)...Many of our worst fights started off near the end of what i thought was a wonderful day...And then a comment like this would hit me driving down the road...Why didn't you brag on me to the kids about how I did so and so? And do you believe i was dumb enough to answer that???
Good point, J
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
And that is the bottom line here......becoming aware of how the abilities and positive parts of having ADHD (which comprise everything about you good and bad) can appear as only bad from the side of the person who is most affected by it.
I was thinking the same thing, reading the other posts here.
I've noticed my husband seems to notice and appreciate my positive ADHD qualities more now that I have made progress on the not-so-desirable ADHD traits. He seemed to be blind to it before, but I know that is because he was spending so much of his time picking up the slack for me. This made him resentful, and resentment doesn't make a person open to the good qualities of a struggling (flailing?) spouse.
Also related to your post about feeling inferior when dropping the proverbial ADHD ball, and then feeling like you had to "show" other people the positive traits they overlooked. I did this to my poor DH, mostly :(.
The Boy (or Girl) Who Cried Wolf
Submitted by kellyj on
Breaking your old patterns is hard enough.......what makes this even harder is having to do it in the face of the same criticism that doesn't seem to stop even when there you are doing your best to improve
.Also related to your post about feeling inferior when dropping the proverbial ADHD ball, and then feeling like you had to "show" other people the positive traits they overlooked. I did this to my poor DH, mostly :(.
I've had to repeat this process time and time again.....not just with my wife but in other areas of my life including at work and with my family. There appears to be an invisible barrier that is nearly impenetrable especially with your own family....this one I have long since given up on.
I've had an even more difficult time catching my part in this.( how I've contributed to the problem) without realizing it until just recently. One of the main reasons I sought out this forum for a way to gain perspective and find answers to ways to stop myself in places that I needed to for my own good.
Even though my feelings of inferiority have now diminished to only momentary flashes during my weakest times......when this happens I still have my defaults (habitual patterns) which appear as the passive aggressive attitude I described. What's even worse is adding in a bit of self righteousness on top it because of the improvements that I've made.
The one success story that I have a model to follow is at work with my boss. I've been working for him for 25 years so I've had lots of time to work things through with him. Lets just say......I've worked this through and learned some incredible lessons by doing it.......
To start.....my boss couldn't be a closer likeness in every way to my own father if there one ever existed. I've inferred about my father as a horrible man in some of my post here because of the abuse that I received as a child which definitely contributed to the thing we're talking about here (or at least he seemed horrible in my memories as a child) In reality.....he was just your garden variety Narcissists with a bit of Anti Social Personality disorder thrown in on top of it which is where the "Nasty" parts came from which were also the most damaging to me. Outside the home....he was a very intelligent, hard working man with a great sense of duty to his family and took responsibility for everything else in his life (except for his lack of empathy and nasty disposition at home). This aspect of his personality served him well as a respected, hard nosed leader and Vice President of a leading Corporation in his field who could make things happen. Unfortunately for our family.....this is not an effective way to rear children or be a loving husband and father.
So in light of the things I just said.........the match between my employer (who was the carbon copy of my father minus the ASPD part) and myself was like a match created in the depths of hell...... with me being the spawn of the devil for him....and my boss, being the devil himself for me.
My ADHD hits every nerve in his being and goes against every grain of my employers personality to the point that I have quit once (at which time he bribed me to stay with a large raise) and almost quit 3 other times in the span of time I have worked for him. Ironically.....my tenure with my boss has outlasted my two previous marriages and has served in many ways to be a wonderful learning experience because of it.
In trying to make a long story even longer.......I have had repeated opportunities to go up against the same things that I have struggled with all my life in having ADHD and going up against the same resistance, criticism, misinterpretations and misunderstandings that everyone here on this forum is experiencing in their relationships right now.
And the strongest link to break in this negative cycle (pattern) is the past....and it's also has to be the first one that must be broken before anything else can happen.
It's definitely the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" syndrome and liken it to breaking the "chains" of life forged by old Marley in A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens one link at a time.
This is where all my passive aggressive self righteousness comes from at times when I feel that I have to keep fighting the same fight over and over with each new person or relationship that I will ever have in my life.
This is the part on my side that is unfair to my wife.......she shouldn't pay for all the struggles I've had learning to live with ADHD and her reactions and assumptions whether they be wrong or right...... are the same ones that I have experienced with everyone else as well. I have t find ways to communicate better and not project all this into my relationship with her at the same time.
I am definitely using the lessons I've learned with my employer since he is the worst case scenario of someone who is unbending, resistant to change and unsympathetic to anyone but himself most of the time.
Learning to do it with him makes it possible to do this with anyone including my wife.
J
Instinctive? Yup.
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
We are definitely more reactionary or instinctive, that is for sure. Sometimes, it helps, because I can adapt on the spot and feel my way through situations that would baffle most linear people. A number of people have remarked on my ability to "read" my students; their abilities, difficulties, both academic and emotional. I seem to be a tuning fork in that sense, and I can do it quickly, and with less information than other people. I can sniff out B.S. faster than most people. Half the time, because it is instinctive, I don't know how I "know," I just KNOW.
Most of the time, however, my difficulty with planning is aggravating, inconvenient, and a nuisance. This is not based on instinct, but on arduous forethought, and the fact I don't even know whether or not I'm on the right track with my planning makes this doubly overwhelming. It's one thing to work hard and KNOW there will be tangible results, but to engage in a task that is neither rewarding nor a strength is especially frustrating. Still do it, though, even though it takes me 10 times longer than all you NT's out there :). NOT my idea of fun, but one of life's necessary evils (it's evil to me, at least)...
OMG Yes
Submitted by kellyj on
I realize this now.......but in the past I would get really frustrated with other people.....to the point of becoming really passive aggressive. I found that when people (and still do at times) underestimated me base on the weakness and annoying areas that my ADHD has for them.....I would respond by turning this back on them by displaying or using my known strength areas (within the same area) to either prove to them or worse.....use it against them. Silently...saying to myself...." really?.....watch this" or " OK.......you asked for it."
I can see where this has not been the best way to approach this for sure. It even had gotten to the point of taking a certain amount of pleasure when I could do this especially the "OK...you asked for it" part.
I even had a name for it when I did this......."child's play"....because it would be so easy to do sometimes. I know this is not a good quality of mine but now realize why I used to do this especially when I could see it and other people couldn't. The end result of this was pretty consistently being by pissing people off and where being called an A-hole has come from at times. It was a very non productive way of me taking offense at being thought of or seen as inferior and then proving the person wrong in a very non constructive way. I'm referring mostly to my past when I was younger but I have to be careful not to let this slip out if I'm not paying attention to it. I know that it comes out in other ways too from years of the habits that have been formed from this even now when I don't want this to happen any more for the very reasons I've mentioned. I'm still working on it.
And yes.....at work, I can identify a problem and the solution in a matter of seconds ( my ability to read the situation and others) and then react very quickly in only positive ways too. This is the good and the bad on my side of this
passive aggression: not good
empathy and understanding: good
I get it. ha ha
J
Not having an adult relationship
Submitted by WornOutMB on
What has already been said is what my life is like. I mourn having an adult relationship/marriage with my husband. He is the great avoider. There is no working on anything. In our 29 years of marriage I've heard so many times what a great guy he is. There are not very many people who know the truth. I feel like I'm living a lie and am totally alone.
What a great question
Submitted by lulu18 on
What is the great tragedy in a marriage is a very thought provoking question . For me ,I thought my husband had learned a deep and lasting lesson from the failure of 2 previous marriages and the estrangement of his 3 adult children from these 2 marriages. I truly believed he would treat our marriage with reverence and respect , having lived through two divorces and having " worked on his issues". I thought he would treasure the parenting experience with our son, who is still young, having been given " another chance to get it right". I was wrong. He is unable to , as his adhd is largely untreated. He is missing all the wonderful years when our son still thinks daddy can do no wrong. To emotionally walk out on a child is a tragedy. He thinks because he has not physically abandoned him that this equals positive parenting . He is rarely here and pays attention to our child when I tell him he has to & I leave the house, thereby forcing him to interact with our child. He knows if he sits him in front of the tv or with a video game I will be furious when I return, so he sort of pays attention to him. How sad. He has a great kid.
The great guy we married
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
WornOutMB,
I, too, am in my 29th year of marriage. I took my marriage vows seriously. I do not want to exit a marriage out of sheer and utter frustration. I want to make sure I have completed all my own emotional work to make a wise decision. Will we celebrate our 30th Anniversary in October? that is still up in the air.
My biggest Ah-Ha moment came on our 25th Anniversary. I did not want a big trip or party or present. My plan was 25 days of events to commemorate 25 years. 12 days before, the actual anniversary date, and 12 days after. Each day we would do one thing - not big nor extravagant. Go out for an ice cream cone. Drive up to the lake to watch the sunset. Fly a kite. Lay on a blanket and watch the stars. The middle three days we would go off in our RV.
My spouse was unable to participate in even ONE event. No kite flying. No ice cream cone. No star gazing. The RV had an issue, which was supposed to be addressed by my spouse before we left. It was not. Our three days was literally spent with him trying various ideas on how to fix the RV. I even begged him to just turn around, go home, and schedule this part of the celebration at the end, when the RV was fixed. While he did literally get on his knees in tears, and say he was so sorry the RV was not fixed before we left, he continued on in the direction he wanted - we did not go home, we limped along for three days of being in the RV together, both in sour moods.
As sad and hard as it is, I fully believe our marriage is coming to a close. I am open to a miracle. I am choosing to ignore the old saying of "What you fear, you create."
There surely will be a lot of couple's work to be done, if he really accepts and gets out his denial. Until he gets to that point, I have to watch out for my very own best interest.
When I married my spouse, my family accepted him fully and unconditionally. they literally thought he was the best thing since sliced bread! My spouse's family had many issues. I let myself be the scape goat for many years. then I realized all the issues they had, were manifested LONG before I even met my spouse. I didn't cause them, I couldn't control them, I couldn't cure them.
Yes, many people think my spouse is a really great guy. During these past few years, all the passive aggressiveness and all the anger he has hidden so carefully from everyone but myself and our 2 children, is beginning to ooze out everywhere and towards everyone. It is hard to witness.
I really hope my spouse takes to heart his current situation of counseling, and works on himself - so we can work on our marriage. I had to give him that ultimatum. He has chosen to sleep out in our RV for the past 8 weeks.
For me, that will only last while he is taking a break - if he wants to live apart, we will get a divorce. I will not live like this for the rest of my life.
It sounds familiar
Submitted by WornOutMB on
I'm So Exhausted,
Your situation sounds so familiar to me. I have a husband who my family embraced wholeheartedly. He was/is my parents' son, my sisters' brother, my nieces' and nephews' uncle. They love him. His family did not reciprocate with me. At times when it was obvious that something wasn't right between us I was the scapegoat. Why couldn't I just be like him, enjoy life, laugh, have fun? I kept it hidden for years that I was the one behind the scenes holding everything together, picking up the pieces when he did irresponsible things, etc. Now I believe they knew what was going on but were just hoping that I would hang in there. It has been a very difficult last few months. My mother died unexpectedly in February then my husband had major surgery a week after. I was nurse for a few weeks. During that time my mother in law called me and said she knew we were having martial problems (he had been sharing) and that she hoped I would stay strong and not give up. She (and the rest of his family) know how bad his ADHD is and I think they are worried what would happen if I left or said he had to leave.
In the meantime if I mention to my husband anything about getting help I get the "defend, deflect, deny". Why don't I get help? I'm "Type A" and that's why we have the problems we do. All of those usual things said. I have been getting help. I am seeing a counselor so I can start to recover myself. Somewhere along the way I've lost who I am. He says he will never get help. He doesn't want to be labeled with a mental problem. Live with him the way he is or get out. It is so discouraging. So exhausting. I can't get him to see if it doesn't change between us we will end. I can't do this forever. I'm worn out. In the meantime I am making a plan for the very real possibility that in the next few years I will be on my own. It's not my choice but I just cannot kept doing this.
I was too worried about pulling MY weight...
Submitted by CosmicJoke on
He was 15 years older. The most chipper guy I ever met. His resume/life looked accomplished and great on paper. His family had a fascinating history (whereas I'd been raised by wolves).
His mother mentioned that she'd had a conversation with him about our starting a family, with him 50 and me 35. She glowed when she reported how much faith he had in me that I could handle anything, if say, he were to pass first. WHY DIDN'T ALARM BELLS START RINGING?!!! I thought that was a compliment. Why didn't I wonder why his answer to his mother wasn't that HE would do everything in HIS power to PROVIDE for his family? That he was saving...looking into the best insurance...realizing that I was the one then at the top of my career, so of course, he would do everything to support MY advancement as we built our nest egg? And why didn't I notice this elegant little old lady with a Vassar degree and a "colorful" husband who never let her get a word in, seemed RELIEVED that I'd shown up to take care of her son (and give her permission to eventually leave what little inheritance my father-in-law hadn't squandered, every cent, to my husband's older, spinster, hopeless sister--with no thought of him or me (ha!) or the eventual two grandchildren I brought into this ADHD family (haha!!)?,
Guess what? I can "handle anything" (most days). I've diagnosed his ADHD; managed to scrimp/hide enough cash to pay down a house and have something for the kids' college (mostly working crap jobs after he did all he could to sabotage my lucrative career); coped with him getting fired...robbed...throwing away money in ways I (lovingly) defy anyone on this site to top (possibly you might tie with me); I've single-handedly gotten both our ADHD/LD kids diagnosed and helped (involving, among other tasks, a yearly Dickensian lawsuit against the Board of Ed.)...I even nursed that sweet little mother-in-law back from the dead once when her daughter dropped her on my doorstep like a sack of laundry. And I've opened my palm and let go of so many things I wanted to grasp tight--the things that mattered to me, as an individual, before the family motto became, "apres mom, le deluge".
The good news is I know I can handle anything. That is also the tragedy.
The Great Tragedy of my Marriage...
Submitted by Sueann on
I love my ex-husband so much. But he'd rather act out his ADD version of what life is like. He'd rather not work and not have any money and not have heat in the house and not provide adequate food and healthcare for me, than force himself to go to work and perform his job properly. He'd rather live alone with dog poop on the floor than meet me halfway so we could have continued living together. In other words, he'd rather be ADD than be married. I am lonely; I suppose he is too. We are compatible in so many ways. The tragedy is that he isn't able to be a husband.
Conflict resolution
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Rosered,
Conflict resolution has overshadowed our relationship since the start. I get my own self confused over what the REAL problem was:
was it his controlling decisions with anger, to get his own way.
- or -
was it my bending and swaying my own opinion, in an effort to be the peacemaker.
One thing for sure, the combination spelled the disaster we are in today.
What you said
Submitted by boilergirl on
I feel the exact same about the conflict resolution problems. Yes, his anger is a problem, but I also have to take the blame for letting him sway me and getting his own way. In the beginning, I was much stronger and stood my ground. But after years and years, I would get worn down and so tired of the outbursts. I often let him get his way just to avoid another anger episode.
Seeing Your Partner as your Brother....
Submitted by kellyj on
Before I met my wife....(after my divorce).....I dated several woman in the interim time. One of them said something to me that I remember to this day. FYI: We weren't well matched in many ways but we had some nice times together and realized that we wanted different things which we were both in agreement with.
What she told me was this: "I'm looking for a "Brother"....not a partner. A brother is family not just a friend but you treat them the same as a friend.....you have their back and they have yours. But you can also tell them when they are screwing up and do so openly and honestly without fear from retaliation or hurt. Sometimes siblings fight.....but there is a bond that siblings have that transcends all other relationships because they are "family"...tied together forever by blood. This is the kind of relationship that I am looking for with a man."
I will never forget the change that took place in my head when I considered her words and how I perceived myself and the preconceived notions that I believed that were true about being married or in a close relationship with a woman. I had never considered the things she said before ......but after I thought about it for a while....I realized that this was exactly the same kind of relationship that I wanted in a marriage
I don't know why I thought about this after reading your post.....probably the part about being confused on your part which triggered this for me. I have no idea if this is even relevant to what you are saying exactly but I was simply compelled to share this with you....intuition?
So I'm sorry if this was off the wall because it kind of feels like it is....but it also feels like it may be relevant too.
J
Not having a partner
Submitted by boilergirl on
I have been thinking about this since you posted it. I guess everything boils down to not having a true partner. My "partner" doesn't follow through and does what he wants when he wants. If he does ask my opinion, I am not sure why he does, becuase his mind is made up and he really doesn't take it into consideration. I don't have someone I can talk to about anything deep, or really anything at all. Even an innocent comment about a news story can lead to a rant. He is more concerned about being right and proving it than his relationships and other people's thoughts and feelings. I have to be afraid about telling him when something is wrong with the house/car because of his reaction. I feel so alone yet he is here almost 24/7. We just coexsist in this marriage.
great tragedy
Submitted by dedelight4 on
This is a great question/thread. Just like what others have posted, I also believe the great tragedy in my marriage is not having an "equal" partner. I can't talk about the things I WANT to talk about and get a "back and forth" discussion, or tell my husband how I'm feeling, or even ask him a question. There is ALWAYS some sort of snide comment said back to me, or a "joke" made out of what I said, or he might say nothing at all and turn the conversation back to himself. When there is an issue of VITAL importance, he will NOT listen to my input or opinions. He discounts whatever I say, AND even FACT CHECKS ME. I can tell him about something I saw, give my own opinion on it, and he will go verify what I've said using other sources such as the computer and other's opinions. THAT makes me feel lousy, because it makes me feel like I have no merit in his eyes, and that my opinions don't matter. This also spills over into other areas of his/our lives. Overall, he makes me feel like I have no value in his life. It's a terrible feeling.
The desire to be a part, to be needed, to contribute
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
dedelight4
The vision I had when I got married was how great an asset I could be to my spouse. I went to business school, I work for 6 years in the accounting department of a national corporation, I love to organize and sort, and do all aspects of office work. My husband was just starting, from scratch, a construction business.
I began to realize that everything I had to offer was a threat to my spouse. He knew it all. He had the best ideas. He wanted it done his way.
How I wish he could have taken what he does very well, and let me add what I do very well, and off we could have went into success heaven.
He decided my organization skills were a sickness, he was threatened by my scheduling his work day, he didn't like any of my business knowledge. He knew best.
And just like many marriages, not just one that has one ADHD spouse and one Non-ADHD spouse, he would often come home with a "really great idea" he got from someone. In fact, it had been something I had shared with him many times, and he had disregarded it as useless.
Sadly, he only wants me to do what HE deems I should do. That chipped away at my self esteem for a long time. Until I decided I was worthy of my own decision of who I am.