Dede posted about this guy, and J also posted about him. This video has REALLY opened my eyes quite a bit to how much trauma CAN affect someone. So much of this sounds like the ADHD/ADD stuff as well. I know for my H - what happened to him in childhood is a big precursor and aggravator to hi ADHD tendencies. I suspect he would not have NEARLY the issues he has with his tendencies had he not experienced his CSA.
This guy is describing EVERYTHING I could ever hope for my H.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3PC8E8qC6o
For those of you working hard on your issues, or who are scared to face them - listen to this guy. He isnt flashy, he doesnt speak down to you, and he gives things straight up.
This is a FANTASTIC video for ANYONE who has struggled with ANY sort of trauma, including the trauma of having a spouse who ghosts you, lies to you, is unfaithful etc... this guys speaks to ALL of us.
Stacey and J, excellent videos
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Stacey, and and J, thanks for this. I agree that this guy REALLY explains where so MUCH of the hurt comes from. And it cam TOTALLY explain a whole bunch of the ADHD issues as well. I can see my husband, and how his mother raised him and his siblings. It's all there. I saw a bunch of my own past as well. Most I already had figured out, but to hear someone expound on it, is enlightening.
These Are Excellent Videos
Submitted by kellyj on
They are really good for me to see this too. So much of what I've done...without knowing it (and it therapy) is described clearly here in a very easy way to understand. It also validates what I am seeing happening with my wife too. One thing that I haven't said...but do realize in respect to my wife. This is where it gets tricky to say this correctly since...I know what I want to say here....but to say it accurately takes a little thought.
It's very easy to say that what one person experienced as far as abuse from childhood...can be determined by looking at the things that caused it....rank them by how bad they were. How many....how long......ho bad....etc.
What is more important...and what is really at the heart of this....was the opportunity to do things to counter these events and find some kind of balance after the fact. Much of this....I think comes from sheer luck or just having these opportunities available. Luck comes into play however....from having access to it to begin with. Luck and fate....can't happen...without the access to it.
Between the events that occurred over a long period of time....comes with them opportunity and access. Taking advantage of opportunity is part of it.....even if you have it. No access to it at all....comes from other things however.
What I had....and feel very fortunate in having....was a good deal of luck.....and access to opportunity which by mty nature to do so......I jumped on any time I could. Within the impulsiveness that comes with hyperactive ADHD.....does come with it....an inherent ability you learn from having it....to go with your instincts and not question them as they come to you. Those instincts combined with impulsiveness...are not always a bad thing. In fact....as a child....it's really all you've got for survival and a means to survive especially if you are in a situation where opposites and access are few and far between.
I really believe there is some truth in saying...."you make your own Luck"...without going over board in a narcissistic way or predatory way...as a means in justifying your own bad behavior. This is more....learning to keep an eye out...for real honest opportunity...and then being ready to jump on it quickly before it gets away.
This is one of those things....that you cannot teach someone how to do necessarily...because it involves instinct and intuition....and is one of things that when things just present themselves to you....you either notice them or not...but when you do.....you do not have time think about them or wait until tomorrow or the window of opportunity will close. That's a skill....you learn from experience...and with that experience....you learn how to make good use of it. It becomes a feeling that you trust.....that is hard to explain or describe? It's a combination of a number of things...that all come together at once.
But also saying....the trust in yourself and just going with this feeling....comes from the results of making use of this and then knowing you were right.;...once you taking the chance. And getting the chance to...is what I'm calling access. What they say about the lottery....you can't win...if you don't play? That's what I'm talking about and this I did do despite a lot of other things working against me. Exposure and access...do go hand in hand.
So to say my wife had it worse than me....I can't really say....she probably did have some things that were worse...but comparing who was worse or who had it better....;is the wrong way to look at it.
What I do know from hearing her stories....is simply not having the access or the chance and that part is what I see different than what I had...and the part where I can understand it from my own point of view....if I had not learned to be an escape artist....with the opportunity to escape in the first place. But also saying....I went on instinct...and just followed it to see where it would take me and did it without thinking about it.
I think for someone...for what ever reason.....didn't take the chance or didn't have the access....they never would have learned what happens when you do...and believe it's hopeless...and never give it a second thought or try.
The thing is.....in learning to be an escape artist no matter where you are....it takes a lot of failure, scaling walls, digging tunnels and a whole lot of acrobatics to finally escape. One attempt or a couple tries....is not enough to get there. and finally escape. But once you taste freedom and smell the fresh air.....there's just no keeping you locked up anymore...and you will escape again...once you learn how to get back to what you know is waiting for you when you do. It just takes once....and then there's not going back.
At least for me....this is where I got my optimism and hope ....from learning how to do this...and knowing that something better is waiting for me always any time I decide to do it. You are never trapped.....you just don't know how to escape that's all.
J
PS It just came to me what that feeling is? Alertness...not awareness. I am a Doberman after all....that's my animal character. lol
Alertness....Bingo!!
Submitted by kellyj on
Alertenss
1. Vigilantly attentive; watchful: alert to danger; an alert bank guard. See Synonyms at careful.
2. Mentally responsive and perceptive; quick.
3. Brisk or lively in action: the bird's alert hopping from branch to branch.
n.
1. A signal that warns of attack or danger: Sirens sounded the alert for an air raid.
2. A condition or period of heightened watchfulness or preparation for action: Nuclear-armed bombers were put on alert during the crisis.
a·lert·ed, a·lert·ing, a·lerts
To notify of approaching danger or action; warn: a flashing red light that alerted motorists to trouble ahead.
Idiom: on the alert Watchful and prepared for danger, emergency, or opportunity:
Bingo. That's in a positive quality you gain from that experience if you learn how to use it which apparently,.,,.I did? You've got to alert....if your going to be an escape artist and take advantage of opportunity once you see it?
J
Update On Alerness ...and Listening to the Feeling
Submitted by kellyj on
I have been keeping track of a lot of things lately...and paying attention to my feelings. There is one component to this feeling...that I have not ignored or swept under the rug. More just noticing it as it happens. There is something very consistent in what my wife does....that is very disturbing to me. This really gets to the heart of any character issues that I feel are at the bottom of what she does and what she does is very abusive. Nothing my wife does or says to me...will change the way I feel about myself. But in the moment when this happens...it hurts and for good reason. As she attempts to pass her own shame or guilt onto me....this has fallen of deaf ears and really has never penetrated me much though...it is wearing on me to be that vigilant.
Today...she did this thing she does and I don't even want or need to analyze it or know exactly why even though I'm pretty sure I know and why it happens. None the less....it is the one thing that I do care about and I care that much about myself...to consider this a serious offense.
As I mentioned before to Dede...in that she described this in her husband too....when I see my wife...dissmiss my pain or discomfort in any way...;in service of her self and minimizes any damage or pain she's caused me when I voice this too her by trying to shame me....guilt me criticize me for even mentioning anything she does that causes me discomfort...or actually....complete indifference to my pain for what ever reason whether she had anything to do with it not. This gets into the realm of character...and weakness of character, and that to me if this is not remedied or from her...some show of acknowledgement or remorse...that signals to me a heart that is dark and without Love. The disturbing part for me....is an inablity to Love and that is what this shows to me and how it feels.
No matter what she says to the contrary or words that say different. I know what Love feels like...;and this is not Love.
In my mind....that's a deal breaker right there. I have some pretty solid boundary lines and requirements to stay with anyone in any kind of relationship no matter with a friend...an acquaintance...or especially...the person I am willing to invest myself into. No Love....means no relationship and the relationship is over.
I care enough and Love myself enough...to expect that much from anyone I'm with. I know Love...when I feel it....and this ain't it.
This happened again today....and I'm on high alert and will be monitoring this...to tell me what I need to do in the future.
Inability to Love comes from a dark heart that is black. If there is not light in my wife's heart....it's time to move on. Alertness is good....as long as you pay attention to it. Not my first time at the Rodeo...you know.
J
J,
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
J,
I struggle immensely with that sort of dismissal. I know it is because he cannot deal or cope with my pain or discomfort all at... That just causes him to be uncomfortable. So, the result is he dismisses it so that HE doesn't have to deal with it, and doesn't care what it ends up doing to me. Saving himself at my expense.
i am not sure how much of that is his adhd or how much it is from the csa. And honestly, I really believe that so much of his adhd tendencies were onset from the abuse. I know at one point his csa therapist told him to get off his adhd medication so that he could feel things more, and at the time, his focus was on the csa. At least on the surface. But then when he quit dealing with the csa he didn't go back to his meds and all the old issues started coming back after he had worked so hard before he had his big crash (daughter moving and remembering some aspects of the abuse).... It's a frustrating cycle. It's a hurtful cycle. I know that he could recover if he just would do the work and not get distracted by imediate fears, which will translate to imediate desires to escape like in his video games. It's a terrible cycle, one that is so clear to me and his mom and our old therapist. But he lives in denial of it.
anyhow, I believe that the dismissal you are talking about does indeed come from a dark place, and from your posts before (if I remember correctly) there is some abuse in your wife's past? I would bet you money that it's related to that. Aggravated by adhd. The lack of empathy coming from both issues. Make sense? It's my theory at least.
there are times that I don't even know what to hope for. This abrupt change of actually playing a role in the household, him exercising..... It is tempting to have hope. Even that he is falling into temptation to escape to his video games... Tells me that he is trying to hide from memories and things that cannot be hidden from. And you cannot deny the monsters at your neck, make sense? I hope so much that he figures out the only escape is to fight back and push through. Commit to the work of recovery. Has your wife every considered what she might need to do to put her past behind her and actually gain real control?
Stacey
Submitted by kellyj on
You described the cycle, pretty well. What happened yesterday, is the just the same thing coming back around one more time as it always has. It's what precipitated what I wrote. I'm really, just keeping track of it because this is the same thing, repeating itself again. What I'm not doing, is engaging in it...but I see no use in fleeing from it and withdrawing either. I'm speaking directly past any of the things she says and to her as if I she was not doing or saying the things she does and directly to the problem itself ...."in the moment." With her....it's a venting down load that she's been holding in and can't stand it any more...and it just comes pouring out all at once.
She will always start with something ( a justification of some kind....bad day, sinuses...you name it) as a means to say, "because I'm compromised emotionally or physically..... and that gives me the "right" to behave the way she does." And then becomes very indignant and imperious in her tone. Indignant self righteousness is what I see. She becomes very parental....but parental in the way I saw or heard in her mother as the abuser that she suffered from. Either her mother....or one of her mothers alcoholic abusive men. She start to take on that role...and then down load onto me. It has nothing to do with anything I've done per se....but she will use any means to give herself the green light...to start a tirade of abusive behavior at my expense.
The problem it seems (as I have noted this now many times and listened to the things she says )...she was scape goated herself in this way due to one or both of her parental figures....blaming her and her brother for the woahs of their addictions (alcohol and relationship problems between the two adult figures) who in turn....blame the kids for "their problems". It's such a weak, childish and ultimately ridiculous way to avoid the real problem which in the case of my wife....the real problem was this....
The real problem. Her mother....was a grown adult... who refused to take responsibility for her own actions or behaviors. She blamed her childeren...for not being able to hold down a real relationship with the string of men she pursued because she was hopelessly dependent...as in a "child" who is looking to be taken care of and remain a child indefinitely ( and remain a "dependent"...all her life ) She never grew up and was looking for something that could never exist. She viewed Love....by gaging how well she was being taken care "of".....not being actually cared "about".
Being taken "care of" carries with it...;.the expectations that a child would have from their parents. That's the criteria of what LOVE means to someone like her mother.....and my wife in turn. This is what was missing in their own childhoods....and now is "wanting" and/or "needing"....in an adult relationship which of course....is a demand that places their partners immediately into that role. A role...that they neither want....or want to be in...the same as me.
And because no one can full fill this demand as a married partner.....every partner ultimately fails to "make them" feel "Loved." It's a constant never ending quest...."looking for Love in all the wrong places".... and they "never find it" and "always will be disappointed" because it "never comes"....and they "never feel Loved" the way...THEY need to be Loved. "LOVE" means......"take care of me".......not "Love and care FOR me...like you Love and Care for yourself....with the same Love and care as if....you were caring for self and Loving yourself in the same way in an exchange of the same thing in return. In a healthy adult relationship....this is a give and take....back and forth exchange. One person gives....the other recieves and vise versus. It can happen simultaneously....but it doesn't have to be. And the receiving part...does not have to be non stop uninterrupted by anything else or life's responsibilities...or viewed as if these things just get in the way or getting that none stop 24/7. That right there that I highlighted in my own words....is what I witness and experience myself....as I have become familiar with how I "fail" to do my job with her. Granted.....my wife doesn't say this of course....but those Freudian slips and her projections do.
When I say "job".....that is exactly what it feels like and my wife has slipped a number of times and said this in relationship to.....non "fuct based, functionual chores or physical expression or sign or shows of Love"....job like areas of our relationship like chores or house keeping. "It's your job to.........Love ME???"
As it should be....in a reciprocating mature adult Love relationship....those things never happen....even though that is not my language with her. Her language is filled with absolutes that say.....
"Never".... "always" .... "will not"...."none".... "you"......"no"..... "ever"......said in a hostile...chastising way. She gets so pissed when I actually respond to each allegation or accusation with calm collectedness and address each thing she says directly to the point which only refutes her attempts to accuse me of not doing my job as her parent who takes care of her. Really. The more mature and parental like I become who is telling her she is not going to get what she wants.....the more angry and hostile she gets and the more she regresses right in front of my eyes. She is doing everything in her power....to corner me and corral me into this position with her....but when she finally gets me into that role that I shouldn't be in.....I'm angry with her myself...because this is not my role. The only thing she gets from me when I'm cornered or corraled into this...by her leading questions, double talking and circular reasoning...(by that time)....is an angry or irritated Adult/parent figure....who is telling their child....."NO. You can't always get to have what you want..... the way you want it. Grow up and act more like an adult instead of a child."
Now....that last statement....has probably come out of me at some times in the past and for good reason. It was exactly what I felt like and what I saw in my wife at that moment in time. But if you can imagine (this is purely speculative on my part)....imagine, her mother....chasing after something she would never find in these alcoholic men because..... she was an alcoholic too...who shared the same dysfunction together.... who were both trying to escape being an adult and both looking for someone..."to take care of me".......
What do you think, the responsibilities of being a parent....to their own children would feel like to a person like this?
They would be in competition with them wouldn't they?
If they saw their children getting something they wanted or needed.....they would be jealous or envious of them?
They would want to make sure....they got their own needs met or what ever they wanted first..... before their own children.
They would tend to be greedy and selfish and not very giving. Giving would be difficult to give away....the very thing they need right? They would be a black hole...so to speak...because every time they gave from themselves......the 0 sum effect of that would mean....they lost something they needed and now it has to be replaced? "Give it back!!!!" (very childish indeed)
Every time they attempt to give in a giving way....there is always some kind of string attached to it.
Picture...a little girl...sitting in her room at her little table having a Tea Party with her imaginary friends. I just experienced this for real.....with a friend of mines little girl...and it was sooooooo cute. She insisted...that I come in to her room and sit down at her little mini table....and join her friends (of course...who weren't actually there lol).... to have Tea with them.....at which time.... she proceeded to pour imaginary tea in little plastic tea cups and then eat imaginary (???? can't remember LOL ) off these little plates she had all set up for company which.....when I arrived at my buddies house....TAG....I'm it. LOL It was really cute for a 5 year old. We also did a treasure hunt...but that's getting off in another direction LOL )
Picture that little girl now...if somehow....you weren't following the rules of her Tea Party or imaginary Miss America Beauty Pageants or what ever the Fuck they come up with in their Barbie Doll world.... and you weren't doing what you were supposed to do or worse....got upset about something in that scenario or complained about anything during this little Tea Party she was having. The one....where the little girl....is acting like an adult...and trying to be a " little adult" at that age and appear.....very mature. This is like "little girl Porn" if you will. I grew up with two sisters....I know the Fuck what I'm talking about here... Picking up here in the middle of this event......
"Now your turn.... give it back. I expect it back...now give it to me. When I give you something...I expect something in return. I demand..you give it to me. Jow, give it to me or I'm going to get angry with you. Okay fine then...be that way. I'm not going to play with you ANY MORE....until you learn to play right and YOU... are NOT... playing right. Fine then....I'll just go play with my imaginary magical friends and you won't get to play with "US". We dismiss you!!!! (the Turds and I )
side note (the "we"....the "turd" in their pocket "we"...as in...no "turd"...and no actual "we"....that is, only "me"...which is "we" because of the "imaginary friends that only exist in their heads and in their imaginations. Literally..."figments"..or the imagination" of course)
."They" ....will never disappoint me like everyone else always does. They will always be there...and will always be there for me ....they will always play with me anytime I need them to be. I need...I need. I make the rules here in my imaginary Tea Party...sitting in my imaginary house....in my imaginary living room... where everything is perfect.....just the way I ever dreamed it would be...and these are MY rules if you want to play Tea with me. And if YOU...are not playing right!!!!!....I'll just dismiss you and make you feel bad and shame you and make you feel guilty....or just make you go away. Nah Nonnie Na Naw. ttthhhhhhhhhh!!!!!" Or by in other means to get what they want...... in the language of a child in the imaginary "Little Girl Porn" world of a little girl....."Now you give to me back...because I .....expect something in return for what I gave you!!!!"
I was just old enough....to witness this carnage between my two older sisters and it was painful...for a little boy...to endure this for very long I can tell you!!! LOL They had the Barbie house, and the Barbie play set...and or course...Ken and His Ken car (It was a Mustang even ha!! ).....that is....until I sat on the Ken car and tried to ride on it and broke it. That was a sad and mournful day in our house....when Ken could no longer drive Barbie to the Prom. LOL My sister cried!! What can I say? What good is a car...if you can't ride on it? Coming from the same imaginary place....but from a little boys perspective? This is a fantasy...it's not real.
And I'm not playing this role with me wife....in her "Little Girl Porn" role she's put me into and she DOES NOT LIKE IT!!!!!!
I'm literally....saying this very thing to her....and she becomes furious when I do. And I totally don't care anymore. I'm calling a "Spade a Spade"....and saying it like it is.....and when I do.....I get "dismissed".
This is total Bullshit.....I can see it.....I feel it myself as if I'm sitting there playing this Barbie Doll fantasy....the same as I did when I was a little boy watching my sisters do this going....OMFG.....GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!!.
Which in my case....I did. Since my father wasn't around....I went down the street...or anywhere I could find where this "Little Girl Porn" world didn't exist. Mostly.....I gravitated to friends who had all boys in the family and joined them with there fathers....playing base ball or doing activities that suited me.
When I was really really little (too young to remember but saw the pictures) my sisters would use me as their LIVE Doll...and dress me up in women's clothes and shoes and used me to play there "Little Girl Porn" fantasies with. Boy...how I remember (with contempt ) mother and sisters looking at photo albums and thinking this was "sooooo cute". errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! That was not only embarrassing....it really pissed me off!!!!!!! My dad would just roll his eyes and me along with him. I wonder how my sisters and mother would have felt....If I had "Playboy" center fold pictures...plastered all over my bedroom walls? Thinking....that wouldn't been so "cute" to them would it?
So....I'm not playing this Fantacy role with my wife.....but I'm saying these things directly to her. I'm by passing the Bullshit....and getting right to the heart of the matter......as an Adult....who can clearly see this is what is going on. I know what I see....and this is exactly it. I'm not buying in or playing this Fantacy "Little Girl Porn" role anymore. Forget it!!! Putewy!!!! It's a complete disrespect to me as a person...and as an Adult to be considered for this role....let alone....play along with it and think it's somehow.....OKAY???
And the cycle continues. She dismissed me again for not playing right...and then threatened to leave......again.
Now this morning.....it's like.....that never happened and hasn't mentioned leaving again...which she won't. Who's going to provide her with her Barbie Doll house if she leaves....huh?
J
J, the big hole
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Hi, J. You talked about the neediness of your wife that you can never fill. THIS is something I've often thought about my in regards to my husband. There seems to be a giant hole inside of him that I could never fill, and it's something he totally denies.
His mother did NOT give him love or teach HIM how to give love. Giving and receiving love, are vital things parents NEED to teadh their children.
Since his mother didn't do this, and I know he was "shamed" in various ways, but he won't say, he's been left to navigate life with a giant hole in him that he doesn't WANT to know is there. I tried to get him to at least contemplate the issue, but he always aaid "It's in the past, and there's nothing that can be done about that now". But, the past ISNT OVER YET because it keeps repeating itself, over and over.
So, he used passive aggression, and other tactics to sabotage himself in relationships, which he then blames on the other person for "Leaving him". It's too big a hole to fillnfor a spouse, and HE HIMSELF is the only one who can fix that whole scenario. But so far, he hasn't wanted to look at himself OR his past. Very sad. Especially since it did so much damage to US.
Dede - soooo very much this..
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Dede - soooo very much this...
"So, he used passive aggression, and other tactics to sabotage himself in relationships, which he then blames on the other person for "Leaving him"."
I swear that my H has done everything he can to get me to leave, and me being the stupid one holding on because he keeps making promises he has NO intention of keeping, and then sabatoging my every move... It is like I was put into a game, and told one set of rules and one set of targets, but all the while the rules kept changing and targets shifting - and NO one tells me until I fail, and then its held against me that I didnt follow these new rules or hit the new target, and so when I ask again - what are the rules, what is the target - I am told one thing, but its really something else.
I cannot win. I was never meant to win. I was just a way to fix a problem that was never mine, and there was no intention of ever meeting my needs because *I* was never even seen.
J, the big hole
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Hi, J. You talked about the neediness of your wife that you can never fill. THIS is something I've often thought about my in regards to my husband. There seems to be a giant hole inside of him that I could never fill, and it's something he totally denies.
His mother did NOT give him love or teach HIM how to give love. Giving and receiving love, are vital things parents NEED to teadh their children.
Since his mother didn't do this, and I know he was "shamed" in various ways, but he won't say, he's been left to navigate life with a giant hole in him that he doesn't WANT to know is there. I tried to get him to at least contemplate the issue, but he always aaid "It's in the past, and there's nothing that can be done about that now". But, the past ISNT OVER YET because it keeps repeating itself, over and over.
So, he used passive aggression, and other tactics to sabotage himself in relationships, which he then blames on the other person for "Leaving him". It's too big a hole to fillnfor a spouse, and HE HIMSELF is the only one who can fix that whole scenario. But so far, he hasn't wanted to look at himself OR his past. Very sad. Especially since it did so much damage to US.
So true
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
the past ISNT OVER YET because it keeps repeating itself, over and over.
So true. The question is, how to live with it.
One of the most powerful things a therapist has said to me is "You don't have to do that anymore."
A friend pointed something
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
A friend pointed something out - a phrase everyone knows - but is easily forgotten... "The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. " That lines right up with your therapist. Mine said something very simliar, and advised me many times that sometimes getting off the rollercoaster is the ONLY solution that is viable.
I have been working very hard to envision a future that is better than my present. One that involves joy, happiness, traveling the world, spending time with people I love and who love me back. And when things are REALLY hard and I feel stripped to the bone, I try to focus on an image of watching the sun set over Santorini, sipping champaign, while floating in an infinity pool with one of my best friends in the world. I guess its kind of my own version of therapy? :-) Its how I live with whats going on right now - thats for sure.
I know that the break will be very very painful to me. For him - it wont be anything I am sure. And he will go on with life never giving me or our relationship a second thought. I am sure that I will dwell on it for a very very long time. I have to learn how to live with it until its gone, until I can let go of all parts of it. I guess there is no real answer to how to "live with it"... because "it" seems to be ever changing. So many aspects to all that has been going on. I know you guys feel the same way.
I guess we just keep working to be the best people we can be to ourselves. Work hard to be good mothers, sisters, daughters, and yes - wives/husbands and when being a wife/husband is not an option any longer, then being a strong enough woman/man to protect our selves and step away when our spouses decide to step out instead of up.
Live with it.... I dont know how sometimes. Sometimes it just counting between breaths to distract myself from the hurt.
Forgive me if I'm out of line here
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Stacey: One of the things that you bring up often is that you know the breakup will be hard for you. You seem prepared to deal with it in an intelligent and thoughtful way, so you will be okay in the end. However, you seem hurt by the realization that it won't be "anything" for your husband. Don't be so sure about that. You are removing the only real support he's ever had and he may feel like he has been catapulted to the moon. Now, you may never SEE any evidence of this. You'll probably never hear it. The breakup is going to trigger some uglies for him. He may retreat further. IDK, I'm not a psychologist. However, just because you may not see evidence, please, for your own sake, don't beat yourself up about feeling insignificant in the marriage or compare and decide that it is "easy" for him. I'm not excusing him, just asking you not to beat yourself up about it. Have some compassion for yourself... and maybe I'll see you in Santorini :) My daughter is finishing her degree in Italy. It's lovely. She's sent pictures - while I was sitting in my cube which created ultimate sadness :( Look north, the area around LaSpezia is lovely and I hear that Robert Downey Jr. just bought a place there hahahahaa.... the new destination!
Also would be great if I looked at a map and understood I was talking about two different countries. Uggh. Embarrassed.
Grieving and caretaking
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Hi, Vabeachgal and Stacey
Tracking along reading content of what you've just posted. Vabeachgal, you reminded me of something when you remarked on a breakup being harder or easier on one or the other of a couple. Everyone undergoes and then grieves a loss in their own way, of course. So this is just a memory of what I've seen so far regarding how caretakers sometimes grieve. It was my case, when I was the caretaker of my parents, and I think I've seen and heard that this is true with other caretakers. I guess I'll have to do it via a story...
In time, in my extended family, the generation previous to mine aged into old age infirmity and began dying, one by one. There were quite a few siblings on one side, all of whom married, so there were quite a few elderly people in that generation.... each, or each pair of them had caretaker help from a woman or a woman and her husband in my generation. And because the previous generation to mine was that way, as long as they could before becoming too elderly to do it, some of them took care of others of them..
An uncle, who was about a decade older than my mother and her sister, had been taken care of by the two of them in quite a few things for quite awhile. He finally passed away.
My brother who had removed himself from all but very occasional, short contact with anyone in the family at large, remarked, on hearing that my uncle had died, that surely my mother and her sister were unhinged with grief on losing their brother. Setting aside the fact that as people become very elderly they often do some confronting of death as unavoidable and natural, I still had something to say to him ,which was that it seemed to me that people who get into real-life, detailed, time and physical labor caretaking of other people, have an opportunity to make their peace with the oncoming separation from the person they're taking care of, that people who don't involve themselves in the detail of other people's lives, or stretch out to touch other people or do things physically for them don't have.
I said, no, as my mother and aunt talk to me about now being separate from their brother by his death, they're sad, yes, but no they're not unhinged, they're not blown out of the water. I said, consider, X, that our mother washed and folded my uncle's clothes every week. She and he talked. She knew the details of the progression of his illness. I said to my brother what may pertain to other splits than death as well: that my mother had a chance to work out and work on her grieving the loss of her brother ahead of time because she did it via caretaking.
I do think that's the case. I think I've seen caretakers of the elderly, who usually are women, very often middle aged, very often doing the hands-on physical caretaking while they hold down jobs, handle their own household and perhaps are raising kids or putting kids through college. I have one wonderful friend who took on the hands on, physical care first of his grandmother and now his mother, who is a man, but nearly always this work, the putting your body on the line to care for home and other people, have been women. And I do think they do process their loss at least partially VIA the caretaking.
That so far has been my case in life, that I've done some of the grieving before the separation or death, AS I've labored for the person from whom I would be separated, and so I didn't start my getting my head and heart straight on the separation or the aftermath, at th epoint of the split.
Stacey, consider...you know yourself offline, that you may be doing some of this now.
I can tell you that my brother, who always held himself separate, didn't inquire, didn't lend a hand in caring for his parents, was very rocked by their death. He had to start his understandings and reconciliations with the split, and dealing with life after, beginning at the shocking point of my parents' death, itself.
I think any non-participant partner might be hit by a divorce or other kind of marital separation in the same way my brother was hit by my parents' deaths.
Just a thought. I told my brother what feels like it was true, that my mother had done some of her grieving of the death of her brother already, and had grieved it with her hands, as she did what she could at her age (late 80s) to take care of her brother. I'm almost certain that she thought about her brother, her family and death, as she took his clothes out of the dryer and folded them, one by one, every week, as he entered his final illness.
Now - you are totally right
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Now - you are totally right on this one. I was my mother's caretaker for many months as she fought her last battle with cancer. During that time, I was able to process and mourn that my mother was dying... and nothing I could do was gonna change that. I had a chance to make peace with her. I was able to go through so much of that grieving while she was still with me - and that made such a difference in my experience of her death, versus the sudden, unexpected tragic death of my first husband. Making my peace with her, mending the broken parts, being able to be with her on her final journey and part on the best of terms... it was one of the best experiences of my life. It was an honor and privilage to know my mother like that that. One I know that not everyone gets.
In a way - I have also greived and mourned my marriage - from the get go there has been problems - all related to my H's denial. We have had amazing highs - like when he took a stand, started treating himself and actually making headway with his issues, and some terrible lows... the porn, the lying... the disrespect. But all along - a constant theme was his defeat, and his complete acceptance of failure as inevitability. It tainted everything. It was the undercurrent of our relationship. Most people have love and trust as thier undercurrent... with him its been a constant fear of "is today the day he is going to leave" because I broke rules I didnt even know existed. The game kept changing - but he wouldnt tell me. He sabatoged not just himself - but me as well - which completely confirmed his already defeatest attitude.
He said he figured out a long time ago we would never work. He has said this many times before, but then he changed his mind back and forth. However, he never did the workd because I honestly believe that he never believed enough in himself or trusted me enough that we COULD make it work. So the whole time- its just been me working on things, and I think I have always known that. He sabataged everything by inaction - because he didnt think it would work anyhow... never even giving it a true effort. And then - of COURSE the outcome is that it didnt work... No relationship can work with one of the partners having one foot out the door and refusing to do what it takes to make it work. Non Participant - that fully describes him. he has just been... there. Inactive, not participating, just going with the flow, sometimes interupting the flow. But I still dont think this will affect him. He probably will be angry when he figures out he cant do everything he wants to do because he doesnt have the same lifestyle. But I suspect that will be the end of it as far as consideration of me or our marriage.
His mask rules him- and what his mask says - is what he listens to. A mask created by the very monsters he is trying to hide from.
Thank You Stacey....For Saying This
Submitted by kellyj on
"is today the day he is going to leave" because I broke rules I didn't even know existed. The game kept changing - but he wouldn't tell me."
House rules. That's my name for them. The one's that are never said so up front....and change to suit the situation and what ever it feels like. And how!!!!!
This is impossible in every way. Impossible to predict...and impossible to follow since they change but the expectation that comes through says..."what's wrong with you....you should know these things."
NO....you should NOT know these things...unless they're actually spoken to you...which they never are. You only find out....once you've broken them.
This...right there...is the hypocrisy that drives me to the brink!!!
Stacey....so you know....I have been with a dismissive before and it made me really insecure and needy. I was not like this before I was with them...only after . The constant criticizing, berating and belittling and the unrealistic expectations that come with this...would make anyone insecure....whether you were that way to begin with or not.
I had enough where for all...and at least the ability to spot some of this to know...this was NOT me no matter what my wife would say. Now ...this doesn't make me insecure....it pisses me off because it's totally disrespectful and........DISSMISSIVE!!!!
You had nothing to do with this behavior Stacey...and you did nothing yourself to bring this on. If someone has issues from this kind of thing....they had it long before you were even a glimmer in their eye.
But saying one important aspect about attachment styles. You have to be "attached" first...before you will see them or they will begin to emerge.
Meaning....he probably didn't show these things at first when you first met him and were dating because they weren't there and he wasn't feeling the effects that cause this yet. Not until you two were fully...."attached" within your relationship....did you really begin to witness and feel this where before or at first....these were just blips on the radar and of not much consequence.
It gets worse...as time goes on. This is not your imagination or that were not noticing it since ...it probably really didn't show itself and until after you'd been together for a good while already.
I began to notice the signs pretty early which is why I didn't let this go and let it go too far before I started to say something. I know this felt strange as my wife see's it, since I started calling her out on it early and I'm sure, she's never had anyone do that with her before.....but....you can't un-ring the bell....once you know...even if you don't say anything.
J
NON I Think You Are Right About This
Submitted by kellyj on
Just remembering my mother and her Alzeimers. By the time we actually knew what was going on with her...she was already so checked out (even if functioning for the most part at first) that we never really got a chance to talk with her ahead of time about anything of importance. They're there....but not there...and you don't get much warning until it's too late. Even if they don't actually die (for almost 15 years before she finally did like my mom)/
The only thing you do get to do....is grieve ahead of time sio when they finally die....it's almost a blessing and is not surprise or shock what so ever. You actually feel a little guilty...for not being or feeling more upset that you are when they finally die.
Just a strange thing to go through...that is really ass back wards and emotionally confusing at times.
J
V - so not out of line - not
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
V - so not out of line - not even close :-) Part of what I love about this forum is the genuine support, the real deal in our words. I am done with the fake, BS I get at home. I crave truth. And anytime one of you guys gives it to me - be it good or bad, I absorb it an appreciate it.
And you are 100% spot on the money about I feel. I really do feel like he will completely shut it out. Its his MO. Its part of his disassociation disorder from the CSA. He does it so "well" that it has caused him to have signs of early dementia. As a 43 year old man. And that is terrifying, but he doesnt even think its a real issue. When he left me before - he said point blank that he didnt even think about us at all, that he was essentially on auto pilot. He said he doesnt even remember the time he was there. Which is crazy to me. I guess I am just to the point that if i dont see it - it doesnt exist. Training from being married to someone who could talk the talk but not walk the walk? I am pretty confident that H will sink into the same game that destroyed his life before (because right now he is nostalgic for it, is in fear of what his therapist was having him face, and is completely OUT of control and I am refusing to allow untruths and lies anymore - which was his security blanket). He doesnt see the bad impact the game had in his life. Hell he cant see how bad the impact is NOW in his life, he doesnt see the chain smoking while watching youtube videos about that game over and over... all while he has nothing lined up that I can see as far as 1. Where does he plan on living, 2. what does he plan on doing for a vehicle, 3. how is he going to get utilities - hope he is ready for deposits! 5. I hope his new job offers him insurance 6. I could go on and on about logistics he certainly hasnt shared with me - so who knows? and worst of all - . he puts so much time into a game that destroyed him as a distraction from doing any work that could HELP him. VERY SAD.
Honestly - I hope you are right, because at least then maybe it will wake him up enough to start making changes inside himself FOR himself. I love who he is inside - but I really dislike his mask. And right now - that mask is in control and calling the shots. And as long as that is the case, I will continue to make a life with out him - because I will not be ruled by a mask created by monsters from his past. I will not be defined by his false sense of control and manipulation. And I will not put up with his accusations about ME controlling things and our relationship causing him to feel "out of control". Thats on him - nothing to do with me.
I for sure have been dealing with this for so long that I know that I WILL be ok, but its the between now and that point that I feel so unprepared for. I literally have to force myself to NOT get excited about any progress, to NOT get hope by any action or words. I have been cutting off all my emotional ties bit by bit as I find them, and they do keep trying to reconnect. So I am vigilant about it. I am committed to this breakup.
Oh gosh - I want to see EVERYTHING... I really do. So many things I put on hold for this relationship.... NO MORE.
Insecure Attachment Dede
Submitted by kellyj on
That hole that never gets filled? It's from the insecure attachment or better....not having a secure one. Whether it's avoidant, anxious, fearful, ambivalent , disorganized or which ever variation of these...they are all insecure. It's like you are constantly seeking for something to fix it...usually, outside of yourself. No ONE person...or for that matter...no one can fix this aside from the person themselves. It is the one thing that can be fixed aside from the ADHD itself and of course...it's not exclusive to ADHD. Attachment "styles" is what everyone has to some degree and falls into one of the categories but.... if it gets bad enough...it starts to become more of an issue.
People with ADHD have a much higher % ( 3 X more than on average I think? ) than the general population when it comes to insecure attachments. It's the main reason I went to...and continued on with therapy. It's the thing that really is the most related to your emotions and how you actually feel....either good....or not so good.
I'm also beginning to really see how these differences play out and it's significant in comparing the different ones. I'd say...just from what I heard about your H and how he is similar sounding to so many other people with ADHD (including my wife )....avoidant/ dissmives seems to be the most difficult one to deal with in some respects to ever doing anything it and "avoid" looking at their problems and dismiss them immediately. Also....they tend to blame things outside themselves for what's wrong and avoid intimacy or have trouble being intimate.
"Adults characterized as “dismissing of attachment” seemed unable or unwilling to take attachment issues seriously. They answered questions in a guarded way, without much elaboration, and often had trouble remembering their childhoods. They seemed to dislike and distrust looking inward. Some exhibited an underlying animosity that seemed to imply: “Why are you asking me to dredge up this stuff?” or “The whole point of this interview is stupid!”
That right there...is my wife to a T. She's actually said those very words as if she were quoting this paragraph. That's how scary accurate this really is. Trust....is a BIG issue with dismissive insecure attachment.
But she goes a step further and is even more severe...The more extreme avoidants are almost incapable of talking about their feelings; whatever feelings they do have access to are primarily negative and they have great difficulty describing them verbally. This syndrome is called alexithymia, the roots of the word literally meaning “having no words for feelings,” which is not quite the same thing as not having feelings. The worst cases can only express themselves with inchoate rages and tantrums, or unexplained physical symptoms like stomach pains and adrenalin rushes.
This is what is almost intolerable for me sometimes. My wife...pretty much....complains all the time about something in a negative way just like this says. She also has a lot of physical discomfort which makes her just a downer to be around sometimes because...she really is a "downer" as many times has nothing "good" to say. You can only feel so sorry or compassionate about how a person got this way...when you have to live with this constant negativity, complaining and always seeing what is wrong....every where she goes.
The other night I had enough of it when she walked into the door and started complaining. I told her to quit "kicking the dog" and she said "you complain all the time too" ( not true...this is not my issue ) Which is why I said..." IT'S ONE THING...TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE COMPLAINER.....it's another thing....to BE THE COMPLAINER yourself." I asked her..."how many times do you here me complain about anything...unless you're the one who started the complaining first?
The answer is "almost never"....but that hit her right where it needed to go and since then...she's been really quiet. Quiet....because if she can't complain or be negative....she almost has nothing good or nice to say. At least that worked for the time being...we'll see how long that lasts?
For me...I had more trouble with self confidence and fear due to being anxious-proccupied(ambivilent) I wasn't so clingy or needy even though that can be a common part of it. I had no problems being intimate and want intimacy very much and do the opposite of avoid it. I was too intense, too much for my past partners to deal with especially if they were dissmisves. This is what I've come to understand how this works. They hate that "evergy" and someone wanting to be close and intimate or not much even if only a little is Okay.... and I focused on my partners too much and was not good with seeing other's good intention and misreading them to mean something else. Trust is part of it....but in a different way. More paranoid fearful and a tendency to catastrophic things and blow them out of proportion.
There is a bright side to this type as well...once you learn to be more secure....
"[A study found that people] with an anxious attachment style are indeed more vigilant to changes in others’ emotional expression and can have a higher degree of accuracy and sensitivity to other people’s cues.However, this finding comes with a caveat. The study showed that people with an anxious attachment style tend to jump to conclusions very quickly, and when they do, they tend to misinterpret people’s emotional state. Only when the experiment was designed in such a way that anxious participants had to wait a little longer— they couldn’t react immediately when they spotted a change, but had to wait a little longer— and get more information before making a judgment did they have an advantage over other participants."
Once I learned how to manage this better myself....having that higher degree of accuracy and sensitivity to other people cues is a really good skill to have. I'm a lot more confident in my relationships now...and I don't feel insecure any more because I worked this through and become more secure and don't jump to the first conclusions that pops into my head any more. I wait...and take my time now...and think about things first...before I react. Once you learn that skill...the good part seemed to come through on their own.
So Dede...what you were asking about and possibly seeing with you H? Avoidant/dissmissive insecure attachemnt....tend not to look insecure and more self confident on the exterior....but on the interior...they appear to be WAY more over sensivitive and don't deal well with being alone and are really quite insecure and dependent and needy.
For me....being the Anxious-preoccupied....I looked less secure or less self confident on the exterior (what others see) but was a lot more confident myself and my own abilities and less needy or clingy and could be alone much easier without feeling insecure in those ways.
This is so wierd if you think about it....the one who LOOKS more insecure on the outside....is actually more secure behaving or feeling....than the one who LOOKS more secure on the outside...but is appears (to me at least as with my wife ) to be a basket case emotionally and way more insecure in behavior?
You can't judge a book by it's cover can you? This is a really good case in point of why that is?
J
This right here describes my
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
This right here describes my husband to a T.
"The more extreme avoidants are almost incapable of talking about their feelings; whatever feelings they do have access to are primarily negative and they have great difficulty describing them verbally. This syndrome is called alexithymia, the roots of the word literally meaning “having no words for feelings,” which is not quite the same thing as not having feelings. The worst cases can only express themselves with inchoate rages and tantrums, or unexplained physical symptoms like stomach pains and adrenalin rushes."
My husband has constant headaches - the only time he didnt was when he was fighting, - those amazing few months before he remembered and before his daughter moved. That was the first time and the last time he had not been plagued with them.
He has to take prescription meds, on top of handfulls of Ibuprophin all day long just to be functional. Its very very very sad to see.
Perfect description. My
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Perfect description. My husband has always told me he has a hard time talking about. his feelings. So, he dismisses them and tells me "My I.Q. is so high that emotions aren't things I think about". And I am thinking BULL CRAP. He does anger just fine, and other negative emotions, so he HAS THEM. He doesn't WANT to think and deal with the emotions (and allow to feel) that could and WOULD bring him much fufillment and happiness.
My husband has headaches also, It makes me mad and SAD that he wouldn't trust me enough to allow me into that "scary place", where he closes out the world, so that he can stay in his "petend" safe world.
This is Not a Lie Dede
Submitted by kellyj on
I just wanted to take advantage of what you said here that your husband has told you....
"My I.Q. is so high that emotions aren't things I think about". This is really interesting to me. But first...you know it's Bullshit....and I know it's Bullshit....but he actually believes this. He's technically....not lying here. He does believe his own Bullshit...but really this is a rationalization it's all it is. It's said out of ignorance (as smart as he thinks he is? ) from being in denial and just explaining away what he doesn't want to think about.
What's interesting...is in relationship to a guy I worked with that was very dismissive. He actually said he had ADHD...but I never saw him do anything about it. No therapy nothing.
And he use to tell everyone.....that he had a genius level IQ and told how he was the smartest kid...blah, blah , blah... And...he is a hoarder big time. He lives at the Goodwill and could not go a day...without going there. He has 2 storage units just to put all the stuff in...and his apartment was crammed full of stuff....wall to wall.
Just so you know....I have no idea what my IQ is? I never bothered to find out and I don''t really care. If he has ADHD like he says....then he fits that profile really well. He spends nearly all his money on Goodwill things and he is really into bargain hunting. But he never gets rid of any of it....won't sell it....and pay for those storage units which are a mile away from where he lives. I could go on with this and tell you some things that I saw that really stood out. but mainly....he really was very insecure...but spoke very highly of himself at all times including letting everyone know how smart he was. He was really smart.,.but he didn't do a lot of smart things...that's the difference.
I'm not putting myself up on a pedestal here either...I have my things but it's really interesting how they play out so differently.
For the most part...and for the majority of my life....I always felt like I was a little dumber than everyone else...except...when it came time to do things or take test...I did fine so that always seemed to prove myself wrong about myself?
And I'm a bargain hunter too and I go to the Goodwill as well but not so much lately because I don't need anything. That just it....I collect stuff ahead of time and it piles up....but i buy it to sell or make money and mostly....I don;t keep it or buy it if I can't use it or make money on it. I do get that instant gratification from fining a bargain that is an exciting feeling.....but I don't keep the stuff I buy and I buy it...to make money and get rid of it?
I just think this is really interesting....how the same symptoms and tendencies and what you actually believe about yourself....determines so much....and how it ends up playing out even though both people have ADHD.
Just so you know Dede...this guy I worked with....wasn't as smart as he thought he was either. He just knew a lot of facts and information but would be great if he ever ended up on Jeopardy.LOL
It's one thing to know a lot of trivia about a lot of things....(including having 2 storage units of bargains) but in a practical sense....if you can't apply it or use it....what good is it anyway?
J
Thanks J. As a child, my
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thanks J. As a child, my husband got straight A's all through school. He didn't even have to study. He could read a book, and take a test and ace it. But, here's the kicker..........he told me he thought all the other kids were just lazy "morons"his words, because they didn't get straight A's like HE did. I thought he was kidding when he first told me that, but he REALLY BELIEVED IT. But, he used that to his advantage to elevate himself above the other "dumb" kids, and it made him feel superior,when he actually felt VERY INSECURE about himself. He then also confessed to teasing some of the other kids, which to me sounded a little more like bullying. I think he felt powerless at home and took it out on others he thought were safe to "pick" on. I wasn't happy about that at all. He DID recognize it, and said he felt bad about it, but again, wouldn't find out WHY he did that. "It's in the past".
After several years of marriage, I started taking some college courses, and he SAW how hard I worked to try to understand Algebra, he started realizing that other people AREN'T just morons, happy to get D's. and F's, and we really DO have a hard time UNDERSTANDING certain things that genetically came very EASY to him. Instead of feeling compassion and understanding, he again just dismissed this, and wouldn't use it as a perfect opportunity to challenge some of his hard core held beliefs.
He kept saying, "Nobody TOLD me I was a genius, and that I had a gift for Math and school". "They should have helped me". Back then, we were prety much on our own to figure stuff out. But, I told him, "I wanted to be a nurse", and so I ordered information from nursing schools, on my own. He NEVER EVER contemplated WHAT. He should be when he grew up, and to this day, says someone should have TOLD HIM what he should have become, and told him he was gifted. I'm still confused about that one, because most of us knew where we were in the spectrum of life, even if it was somewhat distorted from circumstances. Maybe that is the ADHD in him, but it does seem odd that that is just one of MANY things I've learned about over the years, where he claims he just "didn't know". It's also the very SAME thing he gets angry about when his students say those same words.I think it reminds him of himself, and he now sees it as something to be angry about instead of him feeling empathy. He truly doesn't know what empathy feels like. He can feel "sorry" for someone, but he then turns it around to where it puts HIM in the spotlight instead of the affected person. It's so strange.
I know my husband has a high I.Q., but not a lick of common sense. He can't USE his intelligence to get ahead in life, to where it pays off financially. Penny wise and pound foolish is always the way it goes, and so he got angry with US for needing things, and or WANTING things.
I NEVER ragged on him about his poor decisions, but he THINKS I did, and now tells people I kept telling him "I told you so".........which I never did. This shows me he does feel guilty about what he does, and that there are "inner voices" chastising him.
But since he won't face all this, I can't live that way any more. He's living in his own hell, and can't POSSIBLY be a spouse or partner to me or anyone like this. It's sad and doesn't have to STAY that way. Plus, now, since he's gone off all his ADHD medicine, it's worse than ever, but again, what's familiar to him.
Thanks J. As a child, my
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thanks J. As a child, my husband got straight A's all through school. He didn't even have to study. He could read a book, and take a test and ace it. But, here's the kicker..........he told me he thought all the other kids were just lazy "morons"his words, because they didn't get straight A's like HE did. I thought he was kidding when he first told me that, but he REALLY BELIEVED IT. But, he used that to his advantage to elevate himself above the other "dumb" kids, and it made him feel superior,when he actually felt VERY INSECURE about himself. He then also confessed to teasing some of the other kids, which to me sounded a little more like bullying. I think he felt powerless at home and took it out on others he thought were safe to "pick" on. I wasn't happy about that at all. He DID recognize it, and said he felt bad about it, but again, wouldn't find out WHY he did that. "It's in the past".
After several years of marriage, I started taking some college courses, and he SAW how hard I worked to try to understand Algebra, he started realizing that other people AREN'T just morons, happy to get D's. and F's, and we really DO have a hard time UNDERSTANDING certain things that genetically came very EASY to him. Instead of feeling compassion and understanding, he again just dismissed this, and wouldn't use it as a perfect opportunity to challenge some of his hard core held beliefs.
He kept saying, "Nobody TOLD me I was a genius, and that I had a gift for Math and school". "They should have helped me". Back then, we were prety much on our own to figure stuff out. But, I told him, "I wanted to be a nurse", and so I ordered information from nursing schools, on my own. He NEVER EVER contemplated WHAT. He should be when he grew up, and to this day, says someone should have TOLD HIM what he should have become, and told him he was gifted. I'm still confused about that one, because most of us knew where we were in the spectrum of life, even if it was somewhat distorted from circumstances. Maybe that is the ADHD in him, but it does seem odd that that is just one of MANY things I've learned about over the years, where he claims he just "didn't know". It's also the very SAME thing he gets angry about when his students say those same words.I think it reminds him of himself, and he now sees it as something to be angry about instead of him feeling empathy. He truly doesn't know what empathy feels like. He can feel "sorry" for someone, but he then turns it around to where it puts HIM in the spotlight instead of the affected person. It's so strange.
I know my husband has a high I.Q., but not a lick of common sense. He can't USE his intelligence to get ahead in life, to where it pays off financially. Penny wise and pound foolish is always the way it goes, and so he got angry with US for needing things, and or WANTING things.
I NEVER ragged on him about his poor decisions, but he THINKS I did, and now tells people I kept telling him "I told you so".........which I never did. This shows me he does feel guilty about what he does, and that there are "inner voices" chastising him.
But since he won't face all this, I can't live that way any more. He's living in his own hell, and can't POSSIBLY be a spouse or partner to me or anyone like this. It's sad and doesn't have to STAY that way. Plus, now, since he's gone off all his ADHD medicine, it's worse than ever, but again, what's familiar to him.
Funny Thing About This Guy I Mentioned
Submitted by kellyj on
He would tell me that...."gifted people like him" have be shown to do well when they are really young and excel early.....but there is evidence to support the fact they do more poorly later on in life...and do not excel?
What criteria were these tests....testing for I may ask?
You know what my T just told me the other day about test taking....and IQ scores in general...and how a lot of people with ADHD do not do well on IQ tests?
As he put it..."think about taking an IQ test. You are under the gun to perform, under pressure...and people with ADHD tend not to do well under those conditions. So what are they testing for? How well you do under pressure with a time limit? Or how smart a person really is without the pressure or time limit placed on them?"
This may not be as much an issue with everyone else who doesn't have ADHD...but if your going to compare apples to apples and test for something....you need to know, what you are testing for...and what the test is designed to do?
If you've ever read of heard of the book...."Emotional Intelligence"....it talks about this...and explains why IQ tests....aren't really a good way to test for how smart....a person really is.
Personally....if given the choice....I'd pick someone with a low IQ...who had good EI any day of the week. That is....if I wanted someone with common sense that I didn't need to explain WHAT common sense was or why they didn't have any even if there IQ was off the chart.
J