Have been reading up some on emotional safety. It’s apparently what a person feels when they and their emotions are fully accepted, by a person or a group of people.
I struggle to understand what happened in my ADD marriage. At the end, noone felt emotionally safe. I ruined his safety by being critical for decades before his diagnosis. But despite conflict and trust erosion, I believe on the whole he’s made me more emotionally safe than anybody else.
Am I delusional about this because we were socially isolated? And because my family doesn’t make me feel emotionally safe either, so there was little to compare with?
Or was he just more accepting than anyone else I’ve known?
I know now that I absolutely crave emotional safety. I don’t know if I’ll want a romantic relationship again, but I need emotional safety like air. At the same time I feel it might be an illusion.
Is it possible to love and accept somebody fully, always validating their emotions because you truly feel those emotions are valid? Not have opinions on their circumstances or be critical of their judgment?
Do I manage to love the children like that?
Is it possible within the dynamic of ADHD-non? Or at all..?
I feel it could be my life goal at this point, to create emotional safety for those around me.
Comments
Now that you mention this...
I've been working on this same thing at home with my SO ie: feeling safe, feeling welcome, feeling accepted.
Trust has a lot to do with it, but now, I'm looking at expectations instead of trust. Differentiating these two things have been helpful.
The question is: do I feel emotionally safe? Can I safely share things with my SO and have her take care of those things?
The answer is: yes and no.
But knowing what I know now, I have to back up a bit. How are we different both having ADHD?
I'm more often than not: on the positive side of things. She, by nature...is more on tye negative side. But thar alone does not explain it. Her emotional reactivity is, by nature, to go negative. Mine, by nature, when confronted with negativity or things that don't go my way, is to remain more neutral. Neither good or bad.
As I'm saying this....I'm beginning to see how extremely important it is for me to understand this. Reacting "neutrally" means, in essence, not Reacting or at least...I'm not compelled to externalize my emotions unless they're either "good or bad".
As I observe and pay attention more and more to my SO. She's not just "externalizing negative feelings or emotions" with me, she does it all the time, everywhere she goes. This doesn't mean she's negative all the time because she's not. Actually, not at all. But, if something arises during the course of the day that is: frustrating, pushes a button, car pulls out in front of her, someone does something she doesn't like, the cats get into a fight and wake her up, the temperature is too hot ( or cold ), the sun gets in her eyes, I get in her way, the neighbors car warming up in the driveway bothers her, there's a bad odor or some kind, the cashier was rude at the store, particles of dirt get on her feet ( LOL ), unidentified liquid spills on the floor in the garage, a neighbors Christmas lights are still up, I do any of the following: not closing certain doors ( because of specific fears of bad things happening if I don't), forget to do ( name of many fear driven issues that might happen in relation to the "thing " I forgot to do ), it's going to: ( name severe weather event here ).....
This list could go on. These are all, in the moment, type things. They are concerns that come and go. They're temporary moments of fear or negative emotions BUT !
She has to externalize and each and every one. Externalize means....she has to comment or say something about them.
Another way of saying this: she cannot, not, say something and that includes me into this mix. And when she does, it many times hurts my feelings ( because they very personal and negative...both ) and or, they're insulting or offensive, specifically aimed my direction...which also makes me angry. But I'm just one or a handful, of negative comments that she externalizes all day long. And they're gone as quickly as they appear.
The rest of the time, she's perfectly lovely. And is positive and friendly and nice to be around.
So the "Yes" and "No"...is absolutely true. But when she gets on a negative roll, no one is safe ( including me ) from her negative comments. And, there's absolutely nothing I can do to stop them. I have to accept them or not. Take it or leave it. They're just going to happen...because this happens all the time, every day, no matter what.
Meanwhile, there's me. I, would not have a negative reaction to even one of those things I listed. I wouldn't have a comment, because I wouldn't have a reaction. I'd be nuetral...neither good or bad. It just is. In fact, I don't have a habit of externalizing negativity in general, simply because, they really don't bother me. I don't mind. No skin off my nose. I don't care. I don't give a f%*l, etc. There's not many things that bother me as a rule. I'm not a picking eater. I don't have lots of aches and pains to complain about, and when I do, I don't complain much.
Really, the one and only time I really get upset...is when people ( in general ) start to blame me ( or complain about me ) to my face and accuse me of "making them upset".
Which is exactly what my SO does....with me, and everything else on the never ending list of: "things that bother me". Lol
But seriously, it really affects me deeply when I'm hit with: "you and ( fill in blank here ) bother me." Or any other negativ thing she could say about me. I do take it personall when it's personally directed at me especiall when it's about how I look or act. It can be very personal.
That makes me not feel emotionally safe, welcome, or accepted.
But it's not personal as I said. Not only is it not personal, it extends to everything including the sun in her eyes! I picture the proverbial "old man" shaking his fists and cursing the clouds because they rain! That is exactly what she's doing !!
It's also, what I believe it is...is hypervigilance. All this this is hypervigilance if I'm not mistaken. It's an overreaction to anything in her immediate environment that is causing her stress or anxiety ( including me ) and she doesn't seem to be able to differentiate the "thing" from the "feelings".
I'm only saying this because apparently I can? These "things" don't bother me. They cause no "reaction" except....when I'm included into the mix, and these comments she has to externalize, get aimed at me.
But they're here, then gone....as soon as they come. In a few minutes, she's fine again, as if nothing ever happened.
For me, I'm learning to expect what I just said. At the same time, trust, that she won't stay that way for long....and the perfectly lovely, nice positive person will be back shortly.
Which she is. Both.
I don't think it's possible....
In marriage how do you validate a spouse's emotions who needs you to not matter? Who's life style is built around taking advantage of you? (Your efforts?)...If the circumstance's of our shared life is, I am not fulfilling my vow's and obligations as your spouse, (doing the work) but, I need you to pet my emotions, and not speak about it...What is that? Where does that leave you?
Love will hear, self centeredness will walk away...Love cares, a mind consumed by itself, will always look for concessions from others, especially a spouse...
Good points J and C
Probably the best outcome is always a balance act between acceptance and reasonable expectations between two adult people.
The conflicts and trouble of ADD marriage are fading in memory. Instead I’m looking for a way to energize myself by love and understanding. Guess it’s a healthy sign.
I agree....
I've spoken many times about acceptance of our different realities in marriage...And I believe it...But, when I accept you for you...There is still a story there...There are still possibilities and impossibilities based on the existing day to day realities...At some point after 16 years, I accepted the existing realities we were living through, would never produce a product where both parties were loved and cared for...
I am single now...I am doing some remodeling of my house now that it is not covered in stuff...When I look at my clean and clutter free kitchen and bathroom, that so easily stay's that way, I could cry...Life make's sense to me now...I called a beautiful single friend and have a friend date for next weekend...It may seem a little quick...But, only to those who haven't lived abandoned (and excepted it) for years...
Yes, acceptance of others is great...But, I like you, need to show some love and understanding to the guy in the mirror....
c
Good for you C
I’m so happy for you! Being with a new person who respects you will feel like such a luxury!
You deserve it!
Is It Just Semantics or Reality C and Swedish
I'll try and pull a few things you ( guys ) said which is based on my own internal turmoil at times. Words here, are important, to accurately describe my feelings.
C, I'm also happy that you've found the peace you've been waiting for. Living with a purely self centered person ( as it sounds ) would be an excersise in futility and a very unrewarding experience from the sound of it. I can't imagine being very happy under those circumstances.
And Swedish, your mention of finding a "normal" person has also been something I've thought about. Absolutely no offense taken, I'm objectively looking at "the reality" ( as C mentioned ) of two people with ADHD together, and the idea of pros and cons ( compatabilities and conflicts ) compared to a neurotypical person paired with a neurodivergent one.
My first thoughts have to do with how adaptable a person is ( by nature ). That includes being flexible, malleable and being able to change perspectives ( your mind ) and truly be comfortable doing so. I'm saying this because I grant myself a certain amount of ability in these areas despite having ADHD. It's not black and white, just observing over time, my ability to adapt to different situations and people. Why? I'm less interested in that, than I am understanding the person I'm with appears to have a lesser ability than I do in this one area. That's puts the onus on me ( it feels ) to do more of the moving and adjusting.
The question then becomes, can I be comfortable under these conditions in consideration of the rewards that being with a person who is also very much like me in many ways. I don't have to struggle with understanding possibly as much, because I actually live it and experience it myself.
C, going back to the words "self centered ". In contrast, it's not just important for me to make the distinction between "self centered" and "selfish"....I think there is a real qualitative difference that's important to note. In my mind, one is truly unacceptable....the other deserves a closer look and it possibly more variable in nature. Less a deal breaker, and more of a chronic annoyance perhaps? The jury is still out on this one, but I think it's worth mentioning.
A side note to you C. My SO is an incredible home designer and creator of "Fung Sui". Her ability to create and living environment is really a gift that I recognize. The house is impeccably clean, neat, and organized. But not just organized, but done in a creative and well thought through manner. There is a sense of balance in every respect and its one of my SO's biggest strengths. She's an incredible painter and artist in a general way. The fact that I recognize it and actually "see" her talents ( which I don't pocess ) when it comes to living conditions, makes me appreciate living here, as well as motivates me to be better when it comes to my own ineptitude which sounds closet to your ex in this one way. I get the feeling though, I'm just more inconsistent than your ex....my desire and wanting things to be well kept and organized has always be there. It's truly a weakness of mine, but I'm working hard to be better. Living with my SO in this way, is a joy for me everyday, despite, the conflict our differences have created. My point being, I'm experiencing what you're experiencing now, but still being with an ADHD partner. We are all so different in our own specific ways.
So, you can have a person ( woman ) with ADHD like your ex and my SO, who are both neurodivergent, but very very different. My SO has worked consistently all her life and is very responsible in most ways. She's subject to retail therapy ( over spending ), but she's also responsible enough to pay for her own deficiencies. Her reality, as I see it, is different than your ex which sounds completely skewed.
And I, am less about buying things, and saving at the moment aside from the items that are truly making a positive impact that are not temporary things and more, lifelong passions that have never changed. I even bought a season pass for skiing that makes it very affordable with unlimited usage.
My point being, that we all have our own indivual way of seeing things including wants and needs to keep us balanced.
And Swedish, you've indicated that the balance and the cost / benefit rewards were finally not there for you. The asymmetry was too great for you to happy or comfortable.
I'm now beginning to see the places ( in the big picture ) that I'm struggling most in adapting. In fact, I need to have some movement on my SO's end because it pushes me too far outside my comfort zone to continually be flexible.
From my own ADHD perspective, it's the "selfishness" that's the issue. Despite my own tendencies or weaknesses in appearing selfish at times, my tolerance gets worn thin, when I start to go "Yes, but I have ADHD too...what's your excuse?"....
This is a legitimate question. Do I have to trade my comfort level, because of her "seemingly", inability to manage her own? The operant word here is "seemingly".
I discovered a video short that helps answer this question for me. From my own ADHD ( not normal ) perspective. When I see things that don't seem normal to me, that raises the question: "well then, what is it? "
Is chronic self centerness due to fear, or is it just ( for lack of a better description ) an "attitude problem". Possibly "a bad attitude problem"...and somewhat, a learned way of being.
Conversely, is what "seems to be selfishness " ( seemingly )...possibly for a different reason? I know the answer to this and the answer is yes....as a real possibility.
I'm learning more and more, that people with ADHD can have a host of other things going on, and the combinations can be many. When I listened to this video I'll share, it described perfectly my experience with my SO, and it's ultimately fear based and largely subconscious.
Subconscious = unintentional
Conscious = bad attitude ( I don't care ).
I understand these things are black and white. But it helps me determine ( approximately ) what I'm seeing or hearing.
An example of this is the word " needy ". I'm no longer taking this word in as anything but, "I'm overwhelmed" or "I'm not dealing well right now with the demands of life" or "I need to be left alone for a while." or "I'm stressed out "....
All of which are absolutely true, but that's not what comes out. What comes out is "you're being needy ". I beg to differ, I have needs and sometimes they're not being met. Calling me "needy" is saying, "you have a problem" when in fact, she's the one who's not dealing well. Having certain needs is normal...and struggling when they aren't being met is also normal. I call BS on the word "needy" being used to access my behavior. In fact, I call BS on a lot of things that are related to this one explanation. And yes, I may not have this issue the same as my SO, but I believe ( to a certain degree ) that she can control some of this if she wants to. I've seen her do it so I know she can.
I also know I can do it too which is why I'm calling BS on som of this. If a person just doesn't care, then not much can be done.
Sorry for putting up this video but I couldn't explain it any better.
https://youtube.com/shorts/pOPQGOP5kPM?si=AB7OmfJjW824N830
J you have such a great view of the reality of it...
Most all of what you say here I agree with...This video is 100% dead on concerning my ex...The deal breaker is the blindness, the justification of the self centeredness, and no effort to recognize the impact on others, seek help...
Nothing about her life will change other than she will have to be adult accountable (No one to use)...Me? Let out of a cold hoarded prison w/no fellowship or companionship from the one person who had vowed to be my person!
Sorry J, not my post
J, I’m not responsible for the “normal person” wording. That was somebody else…
I'm sorry Swedish
I missed that. My comment remains the same. No offense taken, I see no difference between "normal" and "neurotypical". That truly is semantics to me. I actually view myself as mostly normal anyway, aside from a few important details. Lol
In fact, I've met a few highly irregular ( not normal ) people and I'm pretty sure they didn't have ADHD !
Sorry if I offended you J
I edited my post.
No Worries
You did not. This is one area that I'm not sensitive too.
I wish
J, I wish my ex had only a fraction of the insight and self awareness that you have. I think there is a lot more going on with him than just ADHD. A couple of psychiatrists considered paranoid personality disorder and borderline as diagnoses. Although I’m happy I have moved on from him, I feel like he could cope so much better in his current life if he had listened to them and had adhered to their treatment plans.
I Appreciate Your Vote of Confidence Sickandtired
but I don't have the answer, truly? I don't think these strong points came out of no where and there's a reason I am, the way I am.
My current theory? My early socialization experience including swimming competitively helped develope skills centered around controlling my body, breathing, heart rate etc...and having the opportunity to be around lots of different people ( in my neighborhood ) both kids and adults. My desire to be social and have friends pushed me to learn these skills. If you look up EOT ( externally oriented thinking ), locus of control ( external or internal )....I'm more internally focused instead of external. That also has something to do with it.
I think I'd be much worse off if I didn't have those early experiences. Those are the types of skills and learning that helped me compensate for what I didn't do well in.
I'm saying this also because I have three good examples of people I personally know ( my mother, my older sister and my SO ) who were either isolated ( logistically and geographicly, or extremely introverted and stayed to themselves. My SO for example, reports staying home most of the time and bever going anywhere. My mother, lived in an isolated rural area and my sister never went out and played with other kids and preferred to stay home alone and read.
I, on the other hand, was all over the place, into everything, and spent most my time away from home with other people. The second I ate my breakfast...I was gone until dinner time. I was constantly seeming new activities and other kids to do things with. The swimming just augmented that experience and added in learning about how to control my body. I was pretty much in constant motion all the time until I came home and crashed.
I was like a "free range" chicken vs one inside a pen. Lol. I got out and explored my world and everything ( and everyone ) in it. Pretty much unsupervised most of the time.
I believe that experience, forces you to learn to adapt and problem solve and get along with others at the same time. I think my self awareness skills and insight come from having lots of those experiences at a relatively early age which continued on from there. I think a person who is more isolated without that wealth of experience might be worse off than I was / am ?
In other words, my ADHD wasn't better, but my experience was ? Maybe in part? I still feel the parts of my ADHD I struggle with are still pretty bad, I just may be better in some ways more than others? Or I was just born that way? Who knows?
Thank you!
For many years I have just existed...I am starting to feel alive again! :)
Just the right time
Dear C, I can’t imagine it’s too early for you to meet up with a beautiful person. I’d imagine it’s just right. You’ve been waiting almost a year for her to move out, too, haven’t you?
I still love my ex. I’m not where you are. For me the thought of proceeding beyond the current point with a certain person is still frightening.
But I know I can spend a lifetime waiting for my ADD ex to reach out and reconcile. It’s not something he does. We haven’t spoken for 16 months since divorce and there’s no closure whatsoever. I’m even thinking of giving him a heads up: now is your final chance to save our family, before I take off with someone else.
But that would be cruel, I guess. It would, however, perhaps give me the peace of mind I need.
If you are feeling this away, you should call him....
You two need a third party it sounds like...The first thing about reconciliation is respect...There is no use in attempting it unless roles are respected...I love my ex...But, that has nothing to do what destroyed our relationship...If a man or women demands by their life pursuits to take an unacceptable road the spouse can't respect, it will be very hard...We have to both agree on what our husband and wife roles are in each others day to day life, and be at peace with that...Then it can be beautiful...
What ever you do, I hope you find peace in it...
c
Swedish
Giving him one more chance after 16 months of no contact could backfire on you and cause you more pain and confusion. I broke up with my ex, gave him one more chance to work on our relationship, and he jumped at the chance, promising he would put in the work for better communication and meeting my needs. I was buoyed by feelings of hope for us again, only for him to move back in, not changing anything in his behaviors, losing his temper even more easily than before, and constantly blaming me for being “disloyal” because I sought professional help for us. I was basically thrown back to square one, he was more bitter than ever, and it was much more difficult to get him out of my life the second time. He resorted to stealing my ATM card, breaking into my vacation home, stealing tv’s and appliances, and stealing my only car using his key.
Sixteen months of no contact is a good long time to disengage enabling him to move on. If you’re not moving on by now, you need to bring this up in a therapeutic setting. This is about you Swedish, not him any more. Sending you a hug.
Thank you Sickandtired
Thank you for your kindness.
The therapist is already my prerequisite for speaking to him at all. You’re so right. This can backfire badly.
I just look at my children and see his features in theirs and grieve all our years of (challenged) love. I can’t bear to shred the last secret bond I keep to him by partnering with someone else. Rip away the children’s last chance of parents united. I’ve committed my life to this family. It’s physical pain.
You’re right. It’s about me and the depth of my love. And that I know his, despite what he’s said and done, is just as deep for me.
It’s a tragedy, really. ADD has ruined it all and there’s nothing I can do.
Stability for your children
Swedish, I know you’ve tried everything you could to save your family. I think now your family consists of you and your children if he has made no effort to interact with them in 16 months. I do know one thing: that children thrive in a consistent environment. Trying to bring your ex back in will cause them a lot of confusion, since I’m assuming they have adapted to their new life without their dad in the home. I am a retired child psychotherapist, and I had many children of divorce, adopted and foster children as my clients. Custodial parents frequently reported increased anxiety and behavior problems in children after a visit with their estranged parent. Please keep that in mind and go over the ramifications for your children with your therapist.
They live with him 50%…
Sorry, this is something else entirely. He’s a devoted father, lives close by and prioritizes the children above all else.
They’ve lost nothing in that respect, except their parents’ love for each other. Which I feel, having grown up with parents in a loving healthy relationship, is a foundation for trust and identity.
Oh
Oh I didn’t realize that. Still, if they have adapted well to their current schedule, it may be better to leave well enough alone.
I hear your wisdom
Sickandtired, I feel you clearly know what you’re talking about.
Isn’t it strange though, I feel two years after all intimacy ended with my ex, I’m betraying our bond by moving on.
I totally get it
My ex and I were never married and had no children. Still it took me going 8 years without intimacy and a lot of controlling disrespect from him before I felt like I could “break” the bond and move on. I realized later that the bond had died a slow death years before. I just didn’t want to accept it. I was very uncomfortable about moving outside of what had devolved into being my Comfort Zone. But once I decided to move on, similar to where C is now, I felt so much better, “alive again” as C said so fittingly. I opened myself up to moving on emotionally, and within just a few months, I met the love of my life, who has been my husband for 7 years of blissful marriage. All of the pieces fell into place when I finally stepped out of my comfort zone and let go of the past.
That is truly inspiring
I’m glad you’re now happily married. It warms my heart.
I’m just saying
I’m just saying I was stuck until I faced my fears, and got out of my comfort zone. Your fears seem to be revolving around how your children need to see loving parents. They also need to see happy parents. Please ask yourself, was I really happy? Could my kids have sensed my unhappiness? Many divorced parents find a way to evolve into being cooperative “loving friends”, with the kids as their shared priority, yet they have mutual freedom to live their own lives, set their own goals, and be free to pursue other relationships if they choose. This transition to moving on emotionally starts by getting out of your emotional comfort zone. You find comfort in holding on to a feeling in your heart. I’m sure it’s not easy, but if your emotional commitment to your bond in your marriage was like a house slowly crumbling down around you due to neglect, how long would you stay inside it (emotionally) before you realized it’s the familiarity that makes you stay, rather than if it’s good for you to stay in that frame of mind?? You said you could spend your entire life waiting for him to wake up and change. You literally can wait a lifetime. I was with my ex for over 11 years, but I knew it was not good for me and wasn’t working after only 2 years. I tried all kinds of counseling, relationship therapists, and psychiatrists for him. He never changed. He was my comfort zone, but it took me years to realize I was trauma bonded to him, not a healthy comfort zone.
Heart hurts
It makes sense that even a painful bond can be strong.
I have such a depth of emotion, it almost scares me. Today my heart hurts at all thought of both the ADD ex and the possible new person. I wish love could be less engulfing and frightening.
It's not strange, it's common...
There are things born into us, that we can't explain...The bond of two one flesh people is one of those...
Bless you!