I've become used to angry outbursts towards me from adhd partner exactly as others describe on here. Sudden. Unexpected. Pointless. I find myself in confrontation and no idea how it has occurred.
Ive also watched him kick off at other men over disagreements, things he didn't like or Road rage.
But then I watched him kick off at a woman half his age and from my POV he looked like a bully. Although I get treated like that weekly, it was horrifying to watch. He always thinks his reasons are valid and reasonable too, nothing will ever show him otherwise.
I withdrew. Truly horrified and embarrassed. I attempted to avoid him so it didn't look like I was with him. As a result he stormed off elsewhere. But I was grateful. Later, I couldn't work out what I could have done there. Should I have come to the defense of that woman? Should I try to diffuse or explain he has adhd? Should I run away? How do others handle this situation? The anxiety I feel around aggression, confrontation and raised angry voices is sky high, I tend to just get rooted to the spot. And I hate him for bringing it to me. It can happen out of nowhere. And it's been happening for 15 years. Although that's the first with a young woman I've seen.
Comments
My Only Advise
Is to try and separate ( differentiate ) the overreacting from the things that triggered it ie: the actual thing that he's angry about.
Just last night, I was really upset at something from work and my SO wasn't hearing me. All she could hear was how I angry I was, and the facts on the surface. I started to repeat myself ( perseveration ) and now she became focused on that. She responded with general comments like : people are like that....or....everyone has to go through this at work blah, blah, blah
This made me even angrier because I dist feel like she was hearing me. She was just focused on my antics and how upset I was....buy not actually listening.
I finally calmed down from my venting and said: I tried to bring a problem to my boss ( being proactive ) and she dismissed me saying she was too busy. I repeatedly bright this problem back to her several more times trying to show her what the problem was. I was dismissed each and every time. Finally, after it already became a problem, I brought it to her again to show her the problem....her response was: remember last week I said you need to bring me these things before they're a problem? Like that job last week with the Blue Topaz.?"
I stood in front of her holding the Blue Topaz job in my hand and said " do you mean this one? The one I kept trying to show you last week that's now a big problem?"
The problem here, is not the blue topaz ring. It's not the fact that I was having problems with the jobs ( personally ). It wasn't the person who took it in ( incorrectly ) and made the initial mistake. The problem wasn't we didn't have the right tools or any other logistics for the job. None of those things were the problem.
The real problem was.....my boss being dismissive. Not just once but multiple times. The real problem was, she wasn't listening, or too busy in the moment. The real problem was her, not understanding the technical aspects of the job, and being afraid to admit she didn't understand.
The elephant in the room problem here was not listening, being dismissive, and simple not wanting to hear what I had to say. Mostly....being dismissive. That was the biggest problem.
If your so busy looking at the person as "a problem", how upset they are, how they're acting, what they're "doing wrong"....you'll never be able to hear them, or what they're trying to say in order to understand. And without understanding, there's no connection.
This happened last night and I was even using words like "I'm just venting", or " I'm really upset at this situation"
My SO could only hear "drama"...and accused me of bring home "drama".
At the end when I asked....she said she didn't understand.
She didn't understand because she stopped listening. She wasn't hearing me, because she was dismissiving what I was saying.
Which only made me more mad. I didnt wig out on her, or overreact, I only told her that I needed someone to listen to me so I could vent. If she'd said....." that sounded really frustrating for me, here, sit down and relaxe"......would have been all I needed.
Instead, I was accused, dismissed, and told ....I was the problem. And how much she doesn't like it when I get this way.
All I said was " I just needed someone to hear me out, and you are obviously not that person"
She agreed. She isn't that person, because lacks the ability to separate what's being said, from how it's being spoken and actually hear the words, to get the meaning and then understand.
Dismissiveness prevent that from happening.
Those without adhd don't
Those without adhd don't immediately start shouting or being aggressive. It can be difficult to hear anything past that because generally, we read all forms of language, the words, the tone, body language, the pitch, etc. I presume this is innate and done to protect us from dangers, eg, does this pitch and tone seem aggressive am I going to get hurt?
In turn, the response is a typical one for that situation, fear based, anxious, defensive.
My adhd partner usually receives the same outcome when he does this... People turn off/away. Sometimes he's followed people to continue his argument. But on the whole, everyone generally thinks he's an argumentative prat.
I wonder if the solution is to just never go anywhere with him in public as he is unable to contain his mouth.
Yelling isn't Allowed.
This is something I've recently said to my ADHD SO. If it's at the top of your lungs kind of yelling that the neighbors can hear....or even less but it's loud yelling....that's abusive. I'd walk away from that. Abuse isn't allowed, but where do you draw the line? Is raised voices allowed but not yelling? How can you tell? Is raised civil discourse allowed? How about agitation?
I'm saying this because that's the description that is moat used for me. Agitation. It's not full blown anger, it's not losing your temperature, but it's like losing patience combined with frustration...
Is that allowed? Or, is the only acceptable way of expressing anger to be calm an collected but using forceful firm words?
My Guage is....if I can still laugh...then it's probably okay? That still is louder than my every day voice though.
This is a regular debate of
This is a regular debate of mine too!! I guess shouting means different things because my adhd OH always says/shouts that he's not shouting. Perhaps it is that i pick up there is an irritation. I just get told I'm sensitive. I am, but it's used against me. I know that because I've yet to be around anyone else and think 'why are they shouting?'
I Don't Think Volume is Really the Issue
...or even irritation per se. It's the aggression that brings out fear. And the part about using it against you is the most troubling.
If it's instilling fear in you, with intention, that's a means of controlling. If anger is used to control you, that also a form of manipulation if it's used to intimidate you, so you won't do it again.
I can be around loud people, and be loud myself and no one really cares. It's not the volume or yelling that scares me.
When someone is trying to intimidate you, and you match them in intensity. They'll one up you, and move closer, or become more aggressive towards you. The louder you get, the louder they get. You clench fists, they'll pull a knife, you full a knife, they'll pull a gun. Using that as a metaphor of course. The intention is to dominate you and control you in this type of scenario. This will escalate tit for tat...until someone backs down.
For me, this is what scares me. When someone is trying to control you using fear to intimidate you so you'll back down.
I don't see myself doing what I just described. Even if I'm angry and my voice goes up, I'm still trying to have a conversation...I'm still attempting to communicate. My intention is not to "win" by intimidation.
A person using that method doesn't even have to yell. If they're being aggressive, being intimidating, creating fear...simply to make you stop. That's dominating behavior...whether is loud or not.
I know this type of behavior. I know what it feels like on the other end. It'd not about arguing loudly back and forth, or getting intense. The type of arguing that's truly scary....is when it's no longer communicating...and just about winning a fight by any means necessary. Someone who is using intimidation tactics is no longer listening. They have something else on their agenda and usually to get you to be quiet.
That's what I thought of when you said afraid of getting hurt and him telling you you're too sensitive. Regardless, it's causing you to be afraid. That's what also scares me. I'm not afraid of getting hurt....I'm afraid of why their why they're doing it and what it's attempting to do.
Expressing anger
Being from a large family where some roughness was accepted between kids (though not between adults, who were very civilized), I have some tolerance for raised voices. It’s not the tone of voice per se that stresses me most, but dismissiveness. People turning away coldly from a person hot with emotion is not uncomplicated either to me. That was me during childhood, never really been taught how to handle difficult emotions. Sometimes I feel the emotional person could be met with something - resistance, or deflection at least - rather than left alone and embarrassed.
I totally understand the horror of the calmer more composed partner when there is a power imbalance against them. Then it’s a bullying situation.
But in my life, the uncomposed party has always been the more vulnerable one, shouting to be heard. Like my ADD ex.
In my life, the person acting out is usually the one who most needs to be comforted.
Dismissiveness
Something you said registered with me. Dismissiveness is a big trigger for anger with me. I realize it's a deep core wound from a parent who I'm sure had a dismissive avoidant attachment style. It's part of the fear of abandonment issue, having your needs treated as an annoyance or worst....just turning away as if you don't exist.
As an adult, I understand all of this, but as a child, that cuts you to the core. I still react to being dismissed with anger. It's a deep disappointment that the person you count on most ( when you need them most ) isn't there for you. The same as when you were a child. You're right, that child still needs to be comforted from not getting it when they were young.