This is a well known situation that we just navigated together without any conflict. I won't say there's an exact resolution on my end, but a compromise was made.
If memory serves me ( I'm not 100% sure )...but in one of his books, Dr Hallowell talked about this very relationship issue, about himself, so I know I'm not alone. This has to do with waiting to do things ( until later ) or doing them right away ( first thing ) and the order in which people tend to do things. In our case, I'm the wait until later guy, and my SO is the do it right now first before you do anything else.
This is actually a very good combination for me. By taking her lead, she's motivated me to stay on top of things and I've already developed much better habits by simply "doing it first". And so many times, I feel the resistance from my "do it later" pattern trying to pull me back. And 99% of the time, by fighting the "do it later" by "doing it now", it's been a positive change in improving a life long ADHD pattern....except in one specific case which is Sunday morning on my day off. ( or any day off for that matter ).
Like my mother, my SO, on any given day, within minutes of opening her eyes and her brain turns on, springs out of bed like a race horse and starts "doing something " immediately. In my SO's case, I'll wake up many times with the sound of the washing machine and the vacuum cleaner ( both ) going at the time. I remember distinctly, the sound of cookware banging together and cupboards opening and closing when I was a kid. Nothing has changed, except now it's more likely the vacuum cleaner instead.
On a non work day, this is not a problem. As I said, this is a really good motivator to get my butt up and moving. On the weekend however, this has become more of an issue....especially when ( with intention ) I allow myself to default to my old pattern which is:
Lay in bed for an hour and do nothing and/or listen to music...while continuing to do nothing. Then after an hour or so, slowly get out of bed and wander aimlessly around the house, then wander outside and look around for a while, then wander back into the kitchen and think about making coffee. I may start the coffee, but many times get side tracked on the first thing I see only to forget about the coffee, to finish something I started yesterday, but then remember the coffee...and come back to finish making it. I'll then putter around the house some more drinking coffee, to then go back outside to look around ( again ) and listen to the birds and watch planes fly by overhead.....
only to come back inside and get back into bed with my phone, and scroll around for a while longer until I'm fully awake. At this moment, it when I first think about getting ready to do something productive, but first, having to lay around for a while longer and strategize my day using the "what do I feel like doing first" method to plan my day. By this time, a couple of hours has past which is okay...since I give myself until 12:00pm to actually start anything as a rule. Which means....my starting time is always "later" in the day....never "first". I have figured into my automatic calculator, that 5:00pm is roughly my deadline...and the closer I get to 5:00pm as a start time...the more pressure I feel, and the more motivated I get, to get going and do the "task(s)".
Once 12:00pm hits...it's officially afternoon! Morning is for getting ready and doing nothing...afternoon is for doing "work" and 5pm is quitting time approx.
So in this scenario....I'm off to the races ( the race horse ) at noon...and my SO is off the races the second her feet hit the floor in the morning....and it doesn't matter if it's the weekend of not. With her, it's consistently the same thing every day. Which is why she's so consistent!
Her pattern never changes...but mine does. This is where the problem begins. We both work full time so during the week...my pattern is the same as hers. I adopted her pattern and made it mine from the start. It's only when I change from her pattern to my old "default " weekend pattern when the problem starts... .as I've told her repeatedly: "it's the weekend, when I'm not working, getting up and starting immediately feels just like work....and with intention, and full awareness....is exactly what I'm trying NOT to do !"
And the one that really puts her over the edge is when I've gotten back into bed! Lol I can see the smoke starting to come out of her ears when I do that! Needless to say, this really bothers her and she starts to get irritated and angry at times.
And we don't have kids with us, so that's not a concern.
more to come.
This a perfectly relatable truth for many differing mind types
Submitted by c ur self on
J, many of us who read this documented dynamic understand it completely....All I will say is; that we will either allow it to become a wedge that produce's conflict (placing expectations for life to revolve around our wants and demands for others, as measured out by our own justified mental thought processes...(knee jerk and most common) Or we will recognize difference's and accept them fully even if they mean boundaries...(least common, and usually only adapted after much conflict)
We all have a right to be ourselves in our own homes....But, when we are married that mean's being myself still effects the life of my spouse and children if we have them...The more justified difference's we demand, the less mutual involvement there will be...If on Saturday you have your way, and she is quiet as a mouse until you decide to come alive....Then she has to understand her life (energetic and responsible outlook 7 days a week) don't matter until noon...And if she has her way (her justified self) your desire for quiet and solitude until around noon will mean back ground noise as she tackles life from her perspective...
Acceptance of each other's reality along w/ boundaries is the only way to peace in most every situation....You might need foam earplugs to screw in on the weekends....She might do house chores that are unrelated to noise producing machines until mid morning or so....IF ND and NT mixes were easy, this web site would not exist....
Bless you J....
C this is directly related to ...
Submitted by J on
that thing I was trying to explain when talking about homeostasis and motivation and how medication changes that. I want to finish my train of thought below, only to say, there is a reason for this delay in my day before doing things. It's been a lifelong pattern but it has to do with my comment about pressure. Pressure is that "thing" I was trying to explain. The resistance I'm feeling to doing something like chores is real. Why? It's just an ADHD thing. But something has to counter the resistance that's great enough to get you going. And that pressure is the very thing when nothing else is there to do it. I tend to work well under pressure as long as it's attainable. Not enough, and you won't do it and talk yourself out of it. Too, much, and you'll quit early and or just give up and slow down because it becomes impossible to attain. This just becomes a natural thing based on that resistance to pressure ratio. That's that invisible "thing" that has to do with motivation until you become medicated. Ones you go on meds....the resistance goes away. And with no resistance you don't need the pressure!
The only problem for me now is....how do I get motivated without all of that involved!! Lol It suddenly an odd feeling when there's no resistance there and it's much easier to things now. A lifetime of habits and suddenly....woosh! Now what? Lol
It takes a little time to adjust for sure.
It doesn't matter who's fault it is when you're dead
Submitted by J on
The most profound statement my father ever made. He said it in context to me, getting hit by a car, who ran a red light ( in my early 20's ) while driving his car and he was mad, and I was defending myself by saying: "but I had the right of way !!".....and he said the statement above.
There's so many things I can say about this moment that relates to me having ADHD, being criticized, getting defensive, RSD, and the relationship between my dad and I, it could fill a book. Only to say...this was a normal interaction us. My dad was mostly concerned about his car, first off, which was why he was mad. Second, he was telling me this because he knew how I was about paying attention and he applied it to the accident. In other words, he blamed me...not the driver who ran the red light. And me, being angry about the accusation especially in this case when neither I, or the driver, could see each other until it was too late. ( obscured view ). So I was also a little ticked off because he assumed he knew ( a big problem of his ). Even worse, the lady driver who hit me, immediately got out and said she was so sorry but was in a hurry, not paying attention to the light, with her mind being on a big sale she was going to at the mall. I was so in the right...and even the other driver admitted it! You could not be any more in the right than this situation and it was 100% the other drivers fault! And then my dad shifts the blame back to me ( as he always did ) and hits me with: "well, it doesn't matter who's fault it is when you're dead ". When you hear it like that...he's not so much the sage purveyor of wisdom, and more, just doing what he always did, making it my fault.
But the worst part of it for me was that he was right! And I already knew, you were never going to win an argument with my dad. No one ever did because this was his special talent!!
If you happened to actually be right at the end of any exchange...he'd just scream at you and beat you down into submission ( figurtivley ). And....in this one of hundreds of cases like it....he ended up right and you ended up wrong. He always won...no matter how you played it, and it was always your fault so you'd better just take your verbal beating and be thankful you didn't get more.
And if you're wondering what this has to do with my SO and I the other day.....I think it has more to do with that situation than just about any memory I could name. At the very least...it was a set up for what happened the other day.
And at the heart of this matter is self righteousness. That's the real problem as far as I can see.
more to come
Recreation
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I think C has a great point. You could agree to arrange your Sunday so that you can both enjoy it, but separately before noon. There is no right or wrong when it comes to recreational time.
I read this interesting book a while ago about recreation. I was wondering how to relax since it's been so hard. Not doing anything just drives me up the wall. The book said it's not an activity itself that is recreational, but the lack of purpose when you do it. Inefficiency is the point.
You just gave a perfect example of what the book described. Walking into the yard aimlessly, looking at something, eventually drifting back in, thinking coffee, another detour, making coffee... That's the magic recipe for recreation, that our brains crave to function. It's in bright contrast to work life and everything else society demands of us.
You should have seen me, carefully translating my everyday things into recreation to try and learn it like a child: cutting off something in the garden and letting it fall to the ground. Walking to the jetty in a bathing suit, looking at the water, then walking back home. Starting some project with no intention of finishing it, leaving it whenever. I struggle still to do this.
You have your perfect recreation right there, J! Nobody's to tell you yours is not a good way to spend Sunday morning.
Relating this to ADHD Swedish
Submitted by J on
I'm thinking and relating this to and ADHD brain that's always working overtime. It's busy up there all day long! What feels good at times is a break from all that activity. If you think about brain waves and frequencies, the highest frequency is also the most alert and full concentration or Gamma waves. Down the list is Alpha and below that is Thera waves. As I understand it, Theta waves happen when your still asleep and when you first wake up. This is that time when your brain is just turning on and empty of thoughts ( I think? ). But your brain is still at rest, day dreaming or just not thinking about anything.
For me, this feels good. It's relaxed and restful and fully charged with neurotransmitters. It's the best part of the day in fact. I like maximizing this time before going into that next level of thinking ( beta waves ) which still feels relaxed before having to actually do something.
Right at this stage, is where ( it seems ), in the case of my mom and SO....they both skip that part and go straight into Beta and Gamma waves ! Lol Hit the ground running without a moment to spare!! I've certainly done that....but it feels good and relaxing to stay in Theta waves for a while. At least, ramp up slowly and not be in such a hurry to leave dreamland right away! I guess this is a form of meditation you could say?
The brain, and our tendencies based on function....
Submitted by c ur self on
If we throw out (never use) human diagnosis, (which I'm slowly learning to do)...That leaves us with only the reality of each individual's brain function, along w/ their spirit man, and the tendencies that produces in them in day to day living (The visible)....The simplified life, that produces less wasted words, less misunderstandings, less excuses, and just frank reality!....No judgements, just the visible fruit of every individuals life...(The why's don't matter in a relationship, only the product)...This concept does not stop excuses, it does not produce understanding for the working of brain's that differ from our own...But, it does produce truth of living....When we accept fully the truth of living by each other, (mind and spirit production) we can clearly see if our lives are applicable to one another relationally, as it pretains to tendencies and behaviors that are going to be there.. (who we are)....
I mostly never knew, or gave into what you label as thera....My life responsibilities drove me to go from dead a sleep, to wide awake and up....Since I retired 11 years ago, I've learned to experience and enjoy thera, to a degree....But it's also brought challenges w/ those soft dreams...(the inability to discpline thoughts) Bluntly put I've always been highly sexed, and I might come out of that slumber troubled over my thoughts....I might of been having sex in that state w/ someone other than my wife...So I would wake up and just immediately start praying about what was being entertained in my brain...This is partly a product of being pushed away and not being care for by her, I would imagine..But, it's still not something I want in my life, no matter what is sparking it....The mind is the battle field...
c
Perfect Analogy / Conclusion
Submitted by J on
I know I've told this story before, but I can relate it better now. This is definitely tied to my having ADHD before I was diagnosed.
When I was in school, I was doing two swim workouts a day at times, which meant, getting up at 5:45am and diving into a cold pool. Despite, having swum all my life, doing things like scuba diving and water sports of all kinds....I hate nothing more than getting into cold water. I think it's even a sensitivity of mine I hate it so much. I hate being sprayed by a hose or having water thrown at me in fun. It's actually not fun....I hate it so much.....to this day.
So getting up at 5:45am ( that I hated ) and diving into cold water ( which I hated even more ) was the absolute last thing I ever wanted to do. Ever. I remember even in the summer months off school when other kids were sleeping in, our workouts were first thing in the morning in an outdoor pool. I hated every minute of that process but especially jumping into the cold water since they kept the temperatures down for later in the day when it got hot outside. And during swim meets, they would turn off the pool heat and let the temperatures drop even more since they determined it actually makes you swim faster in cold water. During warm ups, it was ridiculously cold. I hated that too....with passion.
But, without knowing I had ADHD and all the reasons why....once you're in the water after a minute ( or less ) that shock to your system turned everything on almost instantly, and you were off and running with intensity. And afterwards, you were not only wide awake but energized and ready for anything that the day had in-store. This helped me immensely at school and I firmly believe, it took the place of meds for me. I felt good all day in fact, when I was doing this daily and even twice a day. I walked into first class and was focused and energized.
Of course this works for anyone, but for someone with ADHD...I'm guessing it even helped even more. In part, I think it's why my ADHD symptoms didn't show as much in school and why it flew under the radar. Pretty sure this is true.
more to come.
I think you're right J. My
Submitted by AG on
I think you're right J. My husband would run several miles every morning to get him going for the day before he was diagnosed, did this a couple decades. He was diagnosed after he stopped this routine. I have witnessed the benefits of his exercise in helping his focus and "readiness" for the day.
Invisible Walls
Submitted by J on
Before I was ever diagnosed, throughout my life, I began to realize or notice the invisible walls. These were like mental blocks or black holes that I'd run into that seemed to prevent me from doing certain things that I wanted to do. I noticed some things came incredibly easy while others seemed impossible no matter how hard I tried. You might call this innate talent but these walls were different. These weren't just doing something poorly...these appeared as a complete inability no matter how many times I tried. Math in school was one of those areas. No matter how many times I stayed after with the teacher, no matter how hard I tried, no matter how often my mother tried to help me with my home work ( she was actually gifted in math )....I just didn't get it. My brain just didn't work that way but, I excelled in English and was placed in advanced reading and art in Grammer school. Go figure?
This also held true for staying neat and organized. I would go over to friends homes and see their rooms and envy their ability to keep their rooms neat and tidy in an organized and clutter free way. This was another one of those invisible walls I'm talking about. It's not from lack of trying or desire...it's simply an inexplicable deficit that drops below the chart. Like I said, its not that I did it poorly....it's like I couldn't do it at all. And after a while of going back and trying again and again...it's finally time to move on and spend your efforts on something else and just give up.
This was me before I was diagnosed and I how I'd explain having ADHD. I mean really. It makes perfect sense once you've tried 100 times and failed every time, to just stop wasting time, cut your losses and move on to something else instead. Especially when you're so good ( even above average ) in other things that you succeed at effortlessly.
I thought about everything I've said in this post ( which is why I wrote it all down ) in making a decision about this situation my SO seem to have on how we devide our day on Sundays. The fact that she seems rather insistent that I do it "her way" has more to do with her and probably several other reasons I can speculate on that has less to do with me and more to do with her as in: A personal problem. Similar to the situation with my dad.
But when she said...."do it first, and then relax later".....there are many truths behind that statement. There's little you can argue against in this approach but especially for me. This is where the rubber meets the road.
I know the countless benefits of getting up early and despite hating cold water.... what going to swim practice did for me. It literally counteracted my ADHD symptoms and probably benefited in me in countless other ways too.
But even more obvious is the home I now live in. Everywhere you look in every room...the place is neatly organized, clean ( beyond belief ) not a speck of clutter anywhere. It's decorated like a show room and ready for company any day, any time...at all times. She's a perfect example of those kids rooms I would envy and wished I could be that way if it wasn't for the invisible wall. She's exactly the way I'd like to be and I live with her in this beautiful home.
I still don't understand ( from my perspective ) how two people can have ADHD and be so completely polar opposites in the areas of organization, clutter and cleaning? How some can be so bad...and others can be so incredibly good? It defies me. But then again...how can I be so way above average in a select handful of things that come effortlessly without ever being taught and yet...be so incredibly inept in math? Who knows?
So here I am, with this person who has this amazing gift and all I have to do is copy her example just by watching what she does and doing it the exact same way. This wasn't why I moved here, but it's certainly on opportunity staring me in the face in learning how to do something from one of the best I've ever seen. As a teacher in this area, she's probably one of the best at doing something I've wanted for myself for my entire life. Something that has to do with one of those invisible walls which in part...has to do with the "way" I do things naturally or my "default " way of doing things. And I already know the results of going that route from failing every time to stay on it consistently without backsliding just to fail again. (from a lifetime of trying ).
I feel a little like an AA member who's trying to quit drinking alcohol. Total abstinence is that path because one drink can derail you. It feels very much the same at times and I know, because I've done it and it's always the same. It's super easy to go back to the "default" pattern and stay there. It's really hard not to and stay on the other path of "neat, clean and organized". My brain wants to go one way...but my desires want the results the other way has to offer. Like diving into cold water which I hate more than anything....and getting way more than I could ever imagine by getting past that one hurtle. My hatred for cold water is just like one of thise invisible walls, in fact, I think it is due a sensitivey I have. The only difference is, just deciding you want to swim.... closing your eyes and jumping in, is a lot easier than trying to learn math. It's something I could do easily, every time, without fail.
So when my SO started needling me about laying in bed...which opened a discussion about reasons why.....I had a good reason to do what I was doing. It was perfectly in my right to lay in bed for a while and choose to "do things later" if I wanted to...my "default path". I would not be wrong in any way to do exactly what I wanted on my day off...just one day in the week and go back to the "do it now" schedule and way off doing things.....
But logically speaking. How many arguments can I make for doing things my default way...the way I'd always done then?
And how many arguments can I make for doing it the other way ( as I stand there looking around at the results of doing it that way ) from someone who does it consistently without fail ?
And she's standing there saying "do it now, and relax later....it's what I do."
Who am I going to listen to and follow? Her...or my ADHD brain?
In my mind, the choice is clear. I'm doing it more for myself than her...but doing it for her also has many benefits too.
The next day....I doubled down and got up while she was vacuuming and stopped her and said "here, let me finish that for you". Which I did. Being that it's Christmas time and she has a ton of baking and Christmas cards she's making and all the other things she's doing....this went a long way in her feeling I was helping. And since I already know that acts of service is her Love language...I can never go wrong there too.
It definitely made her happy and put a smile on her face. The next day and since, she's been in a good mood with a good attitude. And despite me working every day until Christmas with only today and one other day off from here until then....this is something I can do even if it's not that much.
All I have to do is jump in that cold water everyday and get past that first minute of pain !! Lol. The rest comes easy after that...and there's literally no arguing against it.
This is where the rubber meets the road as they say.
You don’t choose ability
Submitted by Swedish coast on
J, I believe you. I've seen this in my ex. There isn't a choice about some things. And also, the friction of working against (dis)ability sometimes takes too much energy to be worth it.
I don't understand this exactly, but I've witnessed it.
I think you should argue for your default Sunday morning. The things that could make it more palatable for your SO I'm guessing could be:
1) An agreed fixed time when you reunite after, like at noon, so she can have some control over her time while she waits, ie not endlessly
2) A nice reunion - make her an habitual treat. Take her out to lunch, or a homemade smoothie, a walk together in a lovely place, or something else thoughtful
3) Have a deal about housework and other obligations on Sunday, make sure you have a fair share of it, and always make sure it's done by evening Sunday, or preferably the day before. Then she won't feel burdened with everything while you sleep in
Just suggestions from a weary non-ADD ex spouse. It's the endlessness, the uncertainty, and the looming need for over functioning to save the day that's always depressed me on such days. Communication is the key.
Bad Attitude Swedish
Submitted by J on
I discovered something the other day at work, having to do with one of my co-workers who has ADHD. I was trying to find a word ( or words ) to describe her at times and the best fit was simply a "bad attitude". This comes from not wanting to be there or having to work. I'm sure, at home, she's probably a different person which I'm sure she is. And she's not this way all the time, but still, enough of the time, which makes her hard to deal with. A royal pain would also fit! Lol
So as I am, I tend to look up concepts or meanings of words just out of curiosity, and when I did, I had an "ah ha" light bulb. Here's what came up:
"A bad attitude is a persistent, conscious, and deliberate pattern of behavior that is characterized by negativity, selfishness, and disregard for others. It can manifest in many ways, including:
Showing little to no appreciation for anyone or anything
Resisting change
Resentment and jealousy
Procrastination
Avoiding difficult conversations
Whining, complaining, and gossiping
Victim mentality
Impatience
Prioritizing personal gain or satisfaction over team cohesion
Undermining, demeaning, or belittling others"
My co-worker exhibits most of these behaviors as a persistent pattern when things don't go her way especially:
"Prioritizing personal gain or satisfaction over team cohesion."
In other words, she's a pain in the ass and not a team player which makes it almost impossible to work with her as a team. It's not just one of these behaviors but nearly all including being passive aggressive.
Of course this is not an official diagnosis of anything other than what it says. And it mentions it's conscious and deliberate which means, you have control of it.
This is also not mentioned in the description of ADHD symptoms yet....I've noticed that my SO cam also be this way at times too. This is completely anecdotal but I now currently know two women with ADHD who both display some of these symptoms ( to some degree ) that appear and disappear when things are either, "going their way" or "not going their way".
I literally came up with bad attitude myself when trying to determine what I was seeing. With my co-worker....I nailed it 100% . My SO...to a much lessor degree and she doesn't do all of them but....it still describes her tendency when things aren't going her way....specifically in those moments but not the rest of the time. This isn't like a Jeckle and Hyde or any chronic diagnoatic disorder or behavior ....but it is, to a lessor degree, just an attitude problem. A bad one usually due to having a bad day.
I've always just called it..."not being a team player" but bad attitude also works if you look at this list and apply those behaviors.
And this applies directly to work in those situations as it does with my co-worker. Together, it's kind of like resentment....just a collection non descript feelings about not liking what's happening around you or what you're having to do.
So thank you for your suggestions as I think they will help in elieviating this issue. I see this at the core of this particular group of behaviors with SO at times.
Like I said....my co-worker has this bad. She fits nearly all these behaviors to a T which directly has to do with work. And I do think it's deliberate ( a choice ) and she is conscious of what she's doing. Whether this has to do with ADHD....I have no idea ?