We had a long post (and follow-up email) from a woman who is at her wits end about how to resolve the “do I stay or leave?” question. She cares for her husband, but he is driving her crazy and he impacts her life so negatively that she was depressed and on medications for a while. A couple of people have already responded with supportive advice, so check out the comments, but here is the original message and our thoughts:
“What does the non-adhd spouse (me) do when I've already checked out the relationship??? My husband and my daughter both are adhd. I have been very active in learning and advocating on behalf of them and their adhd. Being married 18+ yrs. to this man and living with his adhd had eventually caused me to go on anti-depressants. I just couldn't take him or anything anymore. I didn't and don't want to "raise" another child who should be the adult and help raise the children too. I think the thing that is most irritating me about him right now is that I feel like a parrot...I HAVE to repeat myself 2, 3, 4, 5 times or more the same statement, just because he can't/won't take the time to think on his own.
Now I'm at a crossroads in my life....I am having to decide, do I want to continue my marriage with this nice, wonderful, hardworking, caring man who simply irritates the crud out me or do I want to go and live my life in a way that is more conducive for me?
He understands he has adhd but doesn’t bother to take his medication regularly.
The thing about most adhd people is that they are not great follow-throughers (if that's a word). So even though he starts out with good intentions and wants to work things out in our marriage, I'm the one who has to work on it and follow up on him. We were heading in a decent direction, but....he only takes his medicine to stay awake while he drives at night or if he's having withdrawal headaches.
If I tell him I'm leaving again he'll try his razzle dazzle I'll change speech. I feel guilty because I know for the most part he wants to do right by me, but "fails" to do so. That makes me feel horrible that it is put back on me again that I have to spare his feelings, etc....I have to be the role model, the leader, the everything again in the family, but at his pace. I don't want to go back into depression and be on anti-depressants again and I don't necessarily want to abandon my husband/family, but I don't want to go back where I was to where I didn't have any hope left and the only way out is to leave.
I hope you can understand my pain, agony and heartbreak in even feeling this way. My husband isn't home long enough to be a part of any support groups or to attend counseling.”
Melissa's response:
If you have already truly “checked out of the relationship”, then you have answered your own question. But I suspect that you haven’t really completely checked out both because of what you wrote and because you are asking the question in the first place. I do think, though, that the situation you are in is a tough one. You feel as if you have “checked out”, but also admit that you don’t want to “abandon” your husband and family and that he is basically a good guy whose habits drive you crazy.
The good news here is that you are able to separate the man from the habits. It is also positive that he recognizes his ADHD and has gone to the effort of at least getting medication. The bad news is that your husband has not made a consistent effort to get the habits that drive you crazy under control. He shouldn’t have to be your puppet, but to be a good partner he needs to recognize that both people to work at staying together happily. It is very, very common that the ADHD partner is truly unaware of the effect that their behaviors and habits have on others - even if you've talked about it.
ADHD can be an explanation for bad behavior, but it is not an excuse. It sounds to me as if your husband has not internalized the impact that his actions have on you mentally and physically, nor has he come to terms with his responsibility, as part of your marriage, to make your relationship an easier one.
But it also sounds as if you may be unwittingly aiding and abetting his lack of effort by following up on whatever he isn’t doing.
Most certainly, you should not be a parent to your husband. And, when a person has bad symptoms of ADHD, it is all too easy to fall into that trap. Sometimes the help and picking up the pieces actually encourages the continuation of the behavior that you don’t want. A small example might be picking up his clothes from the floor to wash them. If he doesn’t put them in the laundry hamper, then they shouldn’t get washed. Eventually, he’ll learn that if he wants clean underwear he either has to pick up, or do his own laundry.
That’s a small example, and not meant to trivialize your issues, which are significant. Whether or not you stay should be dependent upon whether or not you and your husband are able to get to a place where you can live in harmony. The current status quo is simply not working. No one should be held hostage by another’s ADHD. But no one should have to live with a person who has “checked out” of the relationship, either. Your husband needs to fully internalize that there are ramifications for his continued inaction. (The fact that he only takes his meds when it is convenient for him shows a disregard for your feelings and partnership. But it also shows that he CAN do it, with sufficient self-interest.) You need to internalize that you are NOT responsible for him.
So, if you haven’t checked out, it’s time for a serious conversation and some action on both of your parts. Note that it is really important, if you are going to give it one more go, that you take your own biases out of your relationship at the same time that he starts to work on picking up his end of the bargain. This means that you genuinely need to give him another chance...don't set him up to fail. So…
- Sit down and tell him that your relationship does not work for you, and that though you love him and think that he’s a really great guy in many significant ways, you find his current behavior towards you impossible to live with. You will no longer be his parent – it’s time for him to start taking responsibility for his life. You hope he can, so that you’ll be able to stay together, but life is too short to be this unhappy forever
- Insist that he start to consider how his behavior affects you. This means that he needs to take his medication because doing so is in everyone’s best interests. It also means that he is now responsible for cleaning up after himself, both literally and figuratively. He should expect that the outcomes of any decision he makes – big or small – will be followed up by him, not you. You are not his parent, nor his slave. (But make sure to hold up your end of the bargain - don't act like his parent, either!)
- Promise him that you will support his efforts by telling him openly what you need in a non-judgmental and non-angry fashion (and then choose carefully what you focus on, particularly at first, so as not to overwhelm him). Promise him that you will start living in the present with him so that you two can have some better times together right away and so he doesn’t have to deal with your anger any more. Give him an opportunity to tell you what he needs.
- Start living out your experiences with him in the TODAY – let go of what he wasn’t able to accomplish in the past (don’t hold past grudges and expectations against him…don’t assume he can’t do it)
- Make sure that you are treating him respectfully and fairly – and as another adult, not a child. Stop yourself immediately if you find yourself giving him advice or directions, or if you nag him. For the next month, make your marriage a “nag-free zone”. DON'T, under any circumstances, allow yourself to get back into parent mode.
- Finally, and perhaps most importantly, give him a break sometimes. This is not a punishment. This is a re-defining of boundaries to see if you can find a place with which you are both comfortable. Be empathetic – it’s not easy for anyone to make the kind of sea change that the two of you need to make.
Making these changes will not be easy for either of you. Once you start thinking about it, you’ll find that his behaviors contribute to your relationship issues, but so, too, do your responses to his behaviors. Wait until you see how much effort it takes to get yourself out of “nag”, “anger” and “I’ve shut you out” mode!
Don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself. If he’s just goofing around and making you late for an appointment, explain nicely “It’s important for me to be on time for X. I’m planning on leaving in about 10 minutes. If you’re not ready to go, then I’ll leave you the directions so you can get there when you are ready.” (Tone of voice is important in this communication, and trust that the new you is bound to make him mad sometimes.)
Eventually, you want to find a situation in which you are happy. It might be with him, or it might not. But you will probably feel better about whatever outcome you reach if you have tried once more to get his assistance in making your marriage work.
- MelissaOrlov's blog
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Comments
My wife and bi-polar with adhd on top of that.
Submitted by rto173abn on
This is my first blog ever, and I'm not even sure if I'm addressing the correct forum. I've been married for almost 15yrs to my best friend, I learned early after many struggles how to cope with the bi-polar after going with her to one of her counselors. We've had our ups and downs, but we got through most of them pretty good I thought. 3 mos ago, she told me she didn't feel right, and agreed to see a doctor, who referred her to a counselor. There she was diagnosed with ADHD. They put her on a perscription which a wk and half later she was allergic to it. They put her on a low dose of a new Rx and scheduled her for her first counseling. We both looked forward to it, but by then she seemed to take a deep plunge into her own world. I didn't know about ADHD at all, so her rapid change caused me to overreact and now I regret the hateful way I responded. Her normal rountine was to do laundry, wash some dishes, and sit either behind PS3 or the PC for hours and hours...but mostly socializing and making many many friends on facebook, and PS3Home. Just before the boys would come home from school, she'd jumpa up, and act busy, then spend a few moments with them, then back to her focus point. I'd come home and often she didn't acknowledge I even came in, yet expected me to join her, instead of our 15min a day we once agreed on. If I just waited for her, and poured a cup of coffee for her, and try to occupy myself, she would tell me she's tired of chasing me down. I took up the slack often cleaning house, and cooking, but grew angry seeing what I considered laziness. She seem to average up to 12 hrs a day on there, up till 3AM, and I felt so hurt and rejected, unwanted, and eventually un loved. Finally we had a heated debate, and she left with the kids. She has wanted to leave numerous times before to go off without the kids, and many times I did pay for her to go where she wanted. This was unusual for her to take the kids. She ended up taking them to a safe house under false lies, only to keep me from getting the kids. Now legally, I can't even see my kids. I've missed one birthday, got no calls on Fathers Day, and now I feel like breaking my own oath and filing just so I can see my kids. She did come by recently just to get a few things, after being gone for nearly 3wks, and by this time my own kids have certainly changed and act as if they prefer to be with her. She has sided them against me, and this is intolerable. She says she doesn't want a divorce, but a long term seperation, and still won't allow me to have the kids, saying her counselors there say no. I reminded her she is at a place that deals with women who are there rightfully where their very lives have been threatened, and they will encourage this sort of thing. I'm forced with either divorce, or seperation legally, just to see my kids. I hate the D word, but I'm soooo sick of catering to her trying to meet all her needs, and being blamed for everything. She takes no responsibility for anything, and sees herself as doing so many things to show her love for me. She exagerates the truth, and acts as if she's going to find a negative even out of what I thought were great times. Like me asking her to spend some time with me, she would snap"Fine I'll quit all the things I enjoy, and what makes me happy, and be a slave, and a mother." Of course next day she's back on there anyway. But how in the world do you deal with all this?
Reading some of these blogs have really taught me alot about ADHD, but I fear its too late, cause if I mention my willingness to go to counselling with her on this, she tells me to stop using ADHD as an excuse. I'm so confused, still deeply in love, but beaten and run over like garbage.
Now I can only focus on the kids and getting my rights to see them. Strange though how alone in the house, I feel nothing is differant except hearing the kids running around playing. I realized I was so alone even with her, and I still go to bed alone. I just wonder, do they ever come back to reality and see the truth or miss what we really had??? In her mind, nothing good is remembered.
Anyone ever have this sort of thing in here at all?
Stay or Go?
Submitted by Redbird on
I've been reading this site for a while now, hearing echoes in my mind of words that I never have dared to say out loud. I understand his mind is cluttered and dusty. I know he can't think like I do, but that he's truly brilliant. I know what he needs of me, to make his life more successful.
So all I am left with is a feeling of guilt. I'm tired. A kind and loving woman would be more understanding, but I just don't want to be understanding any more. I don't want to take care of him. I don't want to live my life providing stability for a 6 foot tall toddler with the worst case of "ooh shiny" syndrome that I've ever met. I am lonely.
What I want to know most is how do you learn to be ok with this life? How do you learn to communicate again? How do I learn to let go of the hurt and the anger that comes along with the name calling and screaming that his temper causes? I know 50% of our communication problems are my fault. I know he's trying really hard. He's on medication. He works a steady job and has for 10 years. That's what he can do. That and play.
It's as if the moment he really starts trying hard, I've checked out. I don't believe any more. I'm with him because of the guilt and because my children truly love him. I'm tired of being the mother. And the sad part is that he is truly brilliant and articulate. He can look me in the eye and tell me that the most important person in the world is himself.
Is it wrong to just not want to play this role in his life?
perfectly legitimate feelings
Submitted by arwen on
Redbird, there's nothing wrong with the way you feel! In the first place, anybody is entitled to whatever feelings they have. But nobody is required to be happy being a slave to somebody else.
And anybody who can say they are the most important person in the world needs a two-by-four upside the head, or a bowl of ice water in the face (I mean that figuratively!!). I don't care how brilliant or articulate your spouse really may be, thinking you are the most important person in the world is egomaniacal (unless somehow he's found the answer to life, the universe and everything, which I really sincerely doubt!). The Declaration of Independence tells us that we are all endowed with "inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Anybody who denies you your pursuit of happiness is taking away your rights, does not respect you, possibly does not know what respect really is. You have no reason to feel guilty.
You ask how do others of us learn to be ok with this life? My answer is, I wasn't and I wouldn't be. I made it clear to my husband that there were some behaviors I just simply would not tolerate, that if they happened again, one of us would be leaving. That included name-calling and physical violence. I told my husband that I could not trust him. And I actually did stop trusting him. There were so many times I wanted to trust him, it would have been so nice, so much easier than continuing to tackle the problems, but I knew that in the end that I (and maybe our kids) would just end up that much more hurt. If he wanted me to believe him, he had to re-earn my trust, with a long record of honesty and fulfilling his commitments, by his actions instead of his promises. My husband was so used to his promises being taken at face value, he kept trying and trying to get me to accept them, but I'm the persistent determined type and would not be taken in. If your husband operates the same way mine did, I don't see any reason why you should believe him. (In the movie Star Wars V, the sage Yoda is teaching young Luke Skywalker to use "the Force" to make things happen. Luke is challenged to do something really difficult, and Luke's reply to Yoda is "all right, I'll try". Yoda tells him sternly, "No! Do, or do not. There is no try". That's the attitude I took with my husband, even quoting it to him, since he was familiar with the movie. He got it.) I found that once I accepted that I could not trust him anymore, I didn't experience as much hurt and anger -- most of my hurt and anger had stemmed from feeling betrayed by unfulfilled promises.
I understand how you can feel you need to stay with your husband because of your children. I felt that way myself. But it didn't stop me from hammering away at my spouse's ADD problems. Some of them posed physical dangers to our children (e.g. his traffic accidents), and I dealt with those first. Later I moved on to the behaviors that were harmful to our children in other ways. Finally we dealt with those that were hurtful to me, which were the hardest ones for us to reach agreement on. Yes, I got tired -- exhausted -- it took a significant physical toll. Yes, I was terribly terribly lonely. That was the price for staying in the marriage for the benefit of the kids. I was very dedicated to the goal of getting them to adulthood with as little impact from my husband's and my problems as possible. During this time, I swore I would leave my husband as soon as our youngest got through college. But my daughter asked me to reconsider, so I did. A few years ago, I reached the end of my rope, told my husband I couldn't deal with him anymore, and asked him to leave.
This was quite a shock to my husband. At first he thought I would want or need him to come back, but I didn't. In the meantime, he discovered that although he actually could manage a simple life all by himself, it wasn't the kind of life he wanted. I actually was significantly happier without him, because suddenly a huge amount of stress was gone. The break away from living with him did me a lot of good. But I didn't want to throw away 30 years of investment in our marriage, if it could be salvaged, either. My husband's counselor suggested we have formal, scheduled meetings several times a week. My husband made concerted, genuine efforts to listen, to be considerate of me, to stop excusing himself, and for the most part he succeeded. There were behaviors on my part that were problems too -- I am fundamentally an angry and impatient person -- and I had to learn to give that up to a significant degree, because they really just made things worse. I used to feel that I had to scream in order to stand up for myself, because that seemed to be the only thing that used to get my husband's attention. I had to learn more effective ways to get through to him. These formal meetings were really instrumental in the communication process, in two ways -- they forced him to focus his attention on our discussions, just like a business meeting, and they removed the important, weightier discussions from everyday interactions, so our other conversation could be more casual and pleasant. (Since my husband could never tell whether a topic was important or casual, this was a great boon to him. It was hard at first for me to learn to "save up" discussion points for a formal meeting, but I got the hang of it after a while.)
It has all been a lot of work -- but who ever said I was entitled to an easy life? But in the end we have achieved the results we wanted. Our separation lasted a little less than a year, and we've continued to work on our issues since we got back together. We communicate a lot better. We fight a lot less. I don't know if I made the right choices, but where we are now is pretty good, all things considered. I don't mean to say he doesn't do anything irritating anymore! (Or me, either, for that matter . . .) But it's no more than the average married couple, I would say.
You say in your post that a kind and loving woman would be more understanding. What it sounds like you mean is rather that a kind and loving woman would be more tolerant and forgiving -- I don't think I would agree with that. Toleration and forgiveness for wrongs is exactly what I think is *not* called for. A genuine mistake after a sincere effort deserves to be overlooked if it is not chronic, but if a person with ADD is going to take on a "normal" (i.e. non-disabled) lifestyle with the responsibilities that are intrinsic to having a family, and expects all the perks and privileges that come with it, then they have to do their share of the work to make it work for everybody, not just for them. Just because a person has ADD does not excuse them from knowing the difference between right and wrong -- it may be tougher for the ADDer to see the consequences of their actions, but once they are told, there's no reason they cannot have the moral rectitude to set wrongs right. I do think, however, that a true understanding of how your spouse experiences thinking and feeling can be very helpful in dealing with ADD -- that kind of understanding I support. Of course, that does require a certain amount of communication from your spouse.
Have you contemplated any kind of joint counseling? My husband and I did this at various points and it did help us focus our efforts better. Also, my husband has always been much more willing to accept inconvenient truths from a professional counselor than from his mere wife.
I don't know if this answers any of your questions, or helps in any way -- there are other posts on this forum that may provide better answers, I urge you to read the site thoroughly, there is a lot of collective insight. Good luck!
thank you, Arwen
Submitted by Redbird on
Thank you so much, Arwen. Your posts are always so encouraging and so peaceful. You give me a lot of hope. I'm a fairly crabby person myself, to be honest and a lot of the problem is that I don't have the patience right now to give him the constant positive reinforcement that he thinks he needs. Now it's a lot of yelling that if I was really studying ADHD and if I was really understanding what I read, that I would understand how to treat him so he would be nice to me. I just don't buy it.
I do need to be nicer. I do need to be more patient. I don't think I need to bend over backwards to accommodate for his favorite new disability. Couples counseling is something that needs to happen. In the meantime, I think I will take some of the wonderful ideas from this site and I will learn how to be happy. Starting with learning who exactly I am and who I want to be. :)
Silly to feel kinship from a forum, but I'm very glad not to be alone in this.
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