Whether or not my SO ( might ) have BPD, an explanation I found, fits our pattern very well. I also found my contribution which seems to make perfect sense.
Key words:
Fear of engulmemt vs engulmemt.
"Shuttlers—You have fears about intimacy. You start out just like a “Clinger,” but once the two of you get close, your past intimacy traumas are activated. You not only fear abandonment, but also that you will be engulfed by the emotional needs of your partner.
This fear of engulfment is usually the result of having been recruited in childhood to help your mother manage her emotional needs. Usually this occurs when the husband (your father) abdicates his role and is happy to turn over this emotional chore to one or all of the children. * she was the youngest child by many years. Same as me.
Or you may have been the only child of a lonely single mother who over depended on you. In this case you received the covert message:
Don’t grow up and leave me. I need you!
In essence, “Shuttlers” are caught in a classic “Approach-Avoidance Conflict.” The more distant they are, the freer they feel to move forward and act on their attraction.
But…as the relationship becomes intimate and they are on the verge of some important commitment, such as moving in together, their abandonment and/or engulfment fears get triggered. They pick a fight and find some reason to backtrack.
Eventually, they will reach a comfortable distance, their fear diminishes, and they want to move forward with the relationship again. This can literally go on forever, unless one of the pair enters psychotherapy or gets fed up and leaves for good.
Their relationship cycle may look look like this:
- Attraction 1—They meet someone appealing who likes them as well.
- Intimacy—The relationship moves forward and they begin to get anxious.
- Backtracking—They hesitate, stop moving forward, and find some excuse for moving away and undoing the growing intimacy.
- Attraction 2—Now, from this emotionally safe distance, their lover starts to seem attractive again. They decide that they want the relationship after all.
- Move towards Intimacy—They reconnect with the other person and convince them to try again.
- Shuttling Continues—Unless one or both enter therapy or someone walks away forever, this pattern of Approach—Avoidance—Approach will continue and sabotage the relationship’s ability to move forward in a stable way.
Punchline: People with the personality pattern that we call “Borderline Personality Disorder” do not enact the typical relationship cycle of Idealization—Devalue—Discard that is seen in many Narcissistic relationships. They have their own relationship issues which are different than those of Narcissists. Their relationship cycles reflect their fears of abandonment and/or engulfment."
So fear of engulmemt is a big deal. This describes perfectly what I've experienced.
Enter me:
"This might arise from a situation such as relocating to move in with your partner. When you move, you leave your friends and family behind and don’t know anyone other than your partner where you now live. You used to do your hobbies and interests with your friends, so all of a sudden, you stop doing these, too. It feels like you and your partner do everything together, and you’re not sure what you enjoy doing anymore."
Exactly true. I'm more of a "clinger" anyway, but I have no problem going out a doing things alone or without my SO.
This dynamic, caused immediate issue for my SO right from the beginning. She immediately started to move away and distance without the "idealized phase". Or an immediate shifting back and forth because of this fear of engulfment. ( I was accused of being too " intense " )
I never really felt any passion, or honeymoon, or anything remotely similar to love bombing or infatuation. It went straight into "shuttling".....and the diminishing of sex right from the start.
Now, she's feeling engulfment again...despite me trying to give her more space. But anything perceived as "getting too close" or "closer"...while she's backing away or undoing....like going to therapy....is actually making it worse I believe. Causing her to question being together entirely. Causing Chaos and intense emotions...when, what I'm doing, is trying to move in the opposite direction as he, trying to move in or approaching to get closer ....and her moving out and away....and backtracking.
What's useful for me here ( if there's any hope at all ) is to recognize where in this cycle she's in....so I can avoid certain things.
Not just space...but engulfment most of all. It appears, that may be the key to understanding what going on. As in....me moving "away" in respect to doing things like skiing again. She liked it when I actually left town for the day and was completely removed from the house. Without realizing it, moving to a new town, with no friends or activity partners...was a situational / logistical issue that triggered her from the beginning.
Possibly this is what she feels she needs? To break- up...so I'll move away?
This seems to fit like a glove. Possibly something I can do, to alleviate this issue?
I've already experienced the belittling and "devaluing stage" a number of times already. Along with contempt, anger, and disinterest in doing things together. It appears, the more distance the better at the moment. And not doing anything to get closer, or expect any kind of intimacy or affection. Expecting the opposite will at least not make me not feel hurt and disappointed. ( those pesky feeling again )
I'd call this: the barely warm, barely interested in me or anything I have to say and mostly ignored me stage.
I still have hope, that I create a scenario where I'm very busy and don't rely much on her for anything....she's come back around amd warm of up bit.
She promises she's not finding someone knew as she explains: that's the last thing I want, as what I want is no drama in my life period.
That would include, talking about feelings, and especially not talking about how my needs at not getting met in any way. She wants freedom from all responsibility and to be with her cats. ( extremely low demand ) She even accuses the cats of being "needy" which tells you something right there.
Comments
Is this good for you?
I’m sorry J. I didn’t realize she was so disinterested in your connection and intimacy.
It sounds like your relationship is not very rewarding for either of you. I’m afraid you will get hurt, trying so hard to adapt to her wishes but not getting much from it.
When my ADD ex and I were living through the last painful months, there was so little left of what we used to share, we couldn’t even sync for a cup of coffee. We were both exhausted from trying hard for so long without rewards.
Without knowing the full extent of your situation of course, I must say it sounds like there aren’t many hopeful signs. The lady wants you out, she wants her cats, she wants her kitchen for herself, and she wants no part of your emotions. That’s what you’ve said. It sounds like she’s not that into closeness and sharing.
I believe you are a loving and generous person and I would hate for you to be further disheartened in this. Are you sure you should proceed with the relationship?
Any lover should feel wanted. It’s a bare minimum really, however difficult other things may be.
Take care J.
Pretty Accurate Swedish
What it amounts to is a roommate but still on her terms. If abide by the house rules, everything is fine. You could look at that part as getting a great place to live that is spotlessly clean, in a nice neighborhood and beautiful area to live in. The rent is reasonable, the job duties are fair, there's really nothing on the logistics end that you can complain about? With nice cats even!
So from a roommate standpoint, there's even a warm body to sleep next to. Sometimes a little affection ( friends with benefits? Without sex? ) it's a pretty sweet deal, from a roommates perspective, a lifestyle that there's little to complain about except not being able to use the kitchen like a bed and breakfast I suppose.
Buy if I'm correct, and she had BPD, you're living with a person with a character disorder....broken or lacking in character.
Can I trus her not to cheat? She'd cheated 3 times before with both her ex husband's.
Can you trust her to be open and honest? I've already caught her lying, and she uses manipulative tactics to get her needs met. Also not honest about her spending.
But the biggest issue for me is the abuse. The same kind of abuse ( in the same exact way ) that I grew up with....had in other relationships, that always ended the same.
As a bottom line....I always ended up with less than I put it which is exactly where it sits now.
Remembering a moment, when my ex wife hoovered me....we had sex, then she manipulated me into giving her things I already was awarded after the divorce. I was so heartbroken and sad, that I just wanted her back. Having sex with her only made it worse...because as soon as she got what she wanted she was gone....and I felt even worse.
And my therapist looking at me scolding me saying " why did you do that? You know what she's like and she's shown you her stripes? What makes you think it would be different this time? "
The answer? Nothing. No reason other than all the things I listed above being with my SO.
So is that trade off worth it? Instead of sex ...you get this great place to live.
In exchange, for being manipulated, controlled and emotionally abused.
I had that at home growing up, so the answer is no.
Do I think she'll change? No. She'd made it clear that therapy is not even a consideration and she refuses to talk to me about anything. ( feelings )
And honestly, there's a good chance I'll just get discarded...may be soon....or maybe....if she gets things she wants first and waits until she's done.
At the end of the day....I'll probably still get less than her....in exchange for my efforts. It won't be a fair or a good deal....because the hall mark is character...or the lack of.
Including the poke in the eye of all that abuse.
These are my initial thoughts...and things to consider. I'm also assuming it' BPD....but feeling pretty strongly that this is now the issue. In the back of mind, I feared this the most of all. It's the last thing I wanted....and was so hopeful it would be there. At this point....what I feel mostly is disappointment. Disappointment has been right around the corner every step of the way.
*******
Stepping back from my initial response, with a few honest confessions.
I definitely have a bias, from my own experience with women who have BDP. They appear to hone in on me and I understand why. It definitely has to do with my people pleasing and being flexible and adaptable. These things come directly from my abuse which makes me angry. Angry that someone is looking for these qualities...to take advantage of. I own a certain amount of contempt about the second I hear BPD.
But in reality....one was really bad. Really really bad bit she had other issues along with it. The others, were mostly just self absorbed and selfish. Manipulative and difficult to live with. These subconscious cycles and the behavior can be hurtful, most definitely.
If you take away the abuse parts...and focus on the rest....these things are less troubling and more aligned with ADHD symptoms if people in many ways. Without the abusive component....I could probably live with my SO just fine. They say, BPD symptoms as they get older, lesson to a degree. I'd have to concur there too.
If I believed that she wanted to have a future, wasn't going to cheat or Discard me and stopped the abusive behavior....I think we could sit down and talk. It's also not fair of me to lump her past cheating in thete, because it was a long time ago...and she's grown a lot since then.
The abuse has got to stop though. Which means we have to talk about it. If she's not willing to entertain that much...I don't see a future together.
Dear J
I wouldn’t live with someone who’s cheated in the past. Lying would also be unacceptable to me. Abuse I’ve found is not always clear cut (raising voice when emotions run high, does that count?). But still. If you feel she abuses you, that is not acceptable.
The core of a relationship to me is trust. You’ve written you’re uncertain of whether you trust her. I wouldn’t recommend you accept the cheating, the lying or the conflict management. It all sounds wrong to me. I’d say: get out.
My Thouggts on What You Said.
The issue for me is not necessarily the cheating. It's whether that person has learned from it, and has remorse that they made a mistake. Are they series cheaters, who have a life long pattern of cheating? Opportunists, when no one is looking?
Or did they do it, at a specific time or place for a specific reason....with no pattern of cheating?
I myself, have cheated in a different context, in the past. I wasn't married ( so I told myself or rationalized it was okay ) ...if your not married...and don't have that commitment. I was young, it was my girlfriend at the time, no commitment what so ever but....
It was still cheating. There's an implied contract of fidelity even if it's just your girlfriend. Litmus test: would they be okay with that, if they found out? Of course! But technically speaking, it's not cheating under the legal contract of marriage right? But that's not the point, cheating is cheating is cheating....there's no difference there.
As it turns out, my girlfriend at the time, was also cheating on me. That doesn't make it better...it just means we both deserved what we got.
But none of this has any bearing on me today. I have never cheated ( after that time ) especially after I was married. I regretted cheating in the past, and I won't do it now. One of the few things I can be proud to say I've done.
So, for me, these things make a difference. It could be lack of character...which would probably show up as a pattern elsewhere not just at the "end". I think they say, women, are more likely to cheat at the end anyway.
I think the lying is to herself, as has been mentioned ...emotional dishonesty . Also, not being fully honest....by omission. Still not good, but also part of the disorder.
For me, abuse is gaslighting. Abuse is being manipulated , abuse is triangulation, abuse is exploiting or using people for personal gain. Abuse is...the list of symptoms of my father, and at times my mother at home. Whether intentionally or unintentionally. My dad, intentionally. My mother, not so much.
How I define the difference in terms of abuse? Did they like it? Or seem to take pleasure in doing it? ( intentionally? )
My mother.....never
My father.....absolutely.
My bias, ( as I mentioned ) was one person with BPD, who was also a drug addict, a thief, a user of people ( exploitive ), pathogical liar, of criminal mind, who swindled men ( a serial swindler ), and was fundamentally a very bad person. A real..."bad" person, who, as the police told me, could easily have been arrested for a number of charges. She might have even had ADHD?
She also, took pleasure in hurting people. She enjoyed doing it.
I'm just guessing....but I think she was also most likely a sociopath....to add to the list.
So what's the problem here? BPD...or being a sociopath?
But the conflict management is a real problem. So is the abuse. If those two things cannot be resolved then I'm not sure we are a good match. But as I mentioned to her...these things are not a good match for anyone....no matter who you are.
Swedish
This is something I haven't said before now. In context to everything I've heard, heard mentioned, odd statements from her daughter in law, her daughter in law herself, a certain "feeling" , everyone knows something but aren't openly saying it.
This includes a somewhat incomplete explanation from my SO about the therapy she received, moments of recognizing she does things like gaslighting and immediately acknowledges when she does.
Actually apologizing when I pointed out that it's abuse and narcissists with her saying: " I'm sorry for being narcissistic " ( what narcissist ever did that??? )
Including when, I got angry enough to get her attention ( I yelled ) and told her to stop belittling me. I even spelled it out for her and she relied , " I'm not stupid, I know what it is." Yes, I think she already knew what it was for a reason.
Which proceeded with her, having this over night change which she attributed to being "mindful". She stopped the belittling almost over night. The devaluing hasn't stopped exactly, but better. The point being, she has been in therapy and has learned these tools....but for what? What was she being treated for? And she's always talking to her daughter in law about "things" ....because her daughter in law has that "Mrs Know it All" mind full of lots of information. She's also had a boat load of therapy from her own abuse ( I've been told ). Who also has a real problem with black and white thinking, and seeing things as "either / or ".
And they aren't talking either! I'm getting that feeling like " I'm the only one in the room who doesn't know what's going on here " feeling again. One I'm very familiar with...my radar is tuned.
But the biggest clue in this, is what my SO said herself when we first met talking on the phone together.
As I'm just now remembering....BPD people like to ask test questions. They test you alot...constantly testing.
In conversation, my SO said " I may have BPD"....in a casual kind of, it might be possible, kind of way....but confirming at the same time ( without saying it ) ....but I don't know? It was buried in a discussion about all kinds of disorders, and possibly, after I told her about the problems I've had with BPD women in the past.
My response to her was: " I don't know? You don't appear to be? " but there's no way for me to know that"...I was being polite. I'm not going to say, " man, I knew something was wrong with you...I'm outa here!! " But it still caused me to pause. That too, was filed in the ( for later file ).
Well. It's later. I actually do believe she has BPD and all that goes with it. I also actually believe she's been to therapy for this very thing. I also believe...her daughter in law has it too...which may be why, he picked her for his wife....because his mom has it. Possibly?
Which is why, she's made odd comments to me...about my mom possible having BPD?
Which is why, when my SO, has an issue, she immediately calls them first.
Which is why, she says " I'll do me....you do you"....and isn't interested in ADHD stuff so much. Or even, going to therapy together in fear of what ( me ??? ) might find out.
Especially since I made it pretty clear how I felt...with my past experiences with women who were BPD.
She even asked me, in a cryptic way not long ago: "what was that disorder those women had in your past? "
Me: "you mean Borderlines?"
Her:" and didn't you say it's like a being a Narcissist?"
Me: "It's in the same group of personality disorders "
Her" Oh..."
And her, being upset when I pointed out things, unrelated to ADHD....
And her saying: " I don't think we're a good match "
The problem is, she's making an assumption. Because I've already considered all of this....and it's been pretty obvious to me for quite some time. The biggest problem with any of this, is not being open and honest. ( if it's true ). Making assumptions, thinking I can't tell, not letting me "into the group"...and not thinking I'm possibley smart enough to figure it out. And or....too ashamed to let me know.
And I already made my decision, considering this as a possibility because I've done my homework enough to know, that not everyone with BPD are "bad people" like the one I encountered.
And with therapy....they can get it figured out.
I suspect....she's already been to therapy for this. Maybe it's possible, they didn't officially tell her specifically? Maybe.
But, no one goes to 6 years of therapy for no reason...and not be going for ADHD? She knows next to nothing about ADHD....but she sure knows alot about other things...and has the tools to prove it.
This is what I currently believe. And it has a lot to do about everything going on here.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Buy If I'm right...it's still worth exploring. I'm not afraid of what I know...it's the things I don't know that will cause me to be afraid.
She wasn't saying "I think I might be BPD"...
She was telling me...without telling me. She knows...and now I know (pretty sure at least ) and I'm pretty sure...her daughter in law too.
The jig is up. Party on Garth. ( I'm pretty darn sure )
Confusion Swedish
I awoke this morning immediately thinking about something she said the other night when we were discussing our future together. She was pretty adamant about me not wanting to have these "talks" about anything to do with my therapy and what I've learned....or my feelings. Several times, she's stopped me when anything had to do with her. As I pointed out, I can't talk about issues I'm having , without referring to you at times? I do have to be very careful, not to insinuate or imply blame on her part, in any way.
This lead back into the discussion about whether we're a good match. She asked me why I was going to therapy...for her...or for me? I told her without question, I'm doing it for myself. I told her Im taking responsibility by doing everything I can ( three prong treatment: medication, therapy, education ) Not exactly sure why she wanted to know that, but she seemed confused.
In respect to her own treatment...she takes medication and it ends there...no further education or therapy. What she appears really opposed to is the education part. I try not to lecture and just share info...as a point of interest ....but she really pushes back to anyone telling her things especially if it even smells like you'r trying to teach her anything....she gets angry very quickly. Which is part of the "not wanting to talk about anything", that will relate to her in any way. She's very touchy if any road leads to her or what she's doing. She's fine if it's about someone else, just not her.
Which is why, I think, she asked that question about going for myself or for her? I still don't know? But she reiterated the "you do you...and I'll do me " comment. It's a running theme now.
In the moment, when we were talking, she made an odd statement, the one that's been bothering me. It was confusing, and caused me to rethink it again so I didn't misinterpret watch she said. All I wanted to know was are we okay or are you on the fence? She replied: "I might change my mind in 5 weeks...I'm not going tell you what I don't feel, just because you want me to say it"
I completely don't know what she meant? Is she saying she might pull the plug on our relationship in 5 weeks as a possibility? She so conflicted that she can't even give me any hope? That it's so bad that I'm on such thin ice this could happen at any time ( the 5 weeks ? ). It's like, just bringing up, me, talking about all the new things I've learned in therapy ( new information ) and talking about my past history about my early abuse, my mom and dad, and how this all relates....really affects her negativity. While I see it as progress and hope...it only makes her more sad and depressed.
She said" I'd be really be sad if you were gone" and started crying. But also reiterated how much she hates all this "shit".
What "shit" ? I asked. Can you be more specific? Define "shit" .
Constantly talking about "feelings". The "chaos " creating things. ( paraphrasing ) And it isn't constant....I gave it a rest for over 3 weeks. I understand, for her, it feels like it's constant....mainly because...it never gets resolved.
I want resolution...she wants...not to talk about it.
At this point in the conversation...I understood the dilemma.
As if to say: " if you don't stop "talking about it"....we aren't going to able to be together." ( because of the chaos it creates. It could happen in as little as 5 weeks, if you don't stop talking about. We aren't a good match, in this way, ( as just one example)...because your incessant need to talk about "feelings" and all of this past abuse stuff and these problems you're having because all it depresses me."
If, I dared to have a learning conversation with her about what she meant by all of that...I'd probably word it like that then say.......is that what I'm hearing?
But I wouldn't dare, because that would go against the prime directive: "don't talk about it".
There's only one rule at Fight Club....never mention Fight Club. Right?
What you said here made me pause Swedish:
"Without knowing the full extent of your situation of course, I must say it sounds like there aren’t many hopeful signs.
" The lady wants you out, she wants her cats, she wants her kitchen for herself, and she wants no part of your emotions."
That’s what you’ve said. It sounds like she’s not that into closeness and sharing.
Line for line: "The lady wants you out"
It might seem that way? But then, she turns on a dime and starts taking about plans for next year's Christmas. Starts mentioning future event and acts like everything is okay? Starts saying, "lighten up...don't be so sensitive, be a little "flip" " Calls, and shows concern when I'm late and worried that something happened. Was in a really great mood last night and being jovial and engaging.
It's a bit confusing. Going from: sad and crying at the thought I'd be gone....to angry and giving me ultimatum if I don't stop talking about feelings, to, I can't give you an answer that it's going to be okay... and say what I'm not feeling and I may change my mind ( about the whole deal ) in 5 weeks, to..."next Christmas, lets not spend so much money" to " lighten up, let's go watch TV, and have a Fresca ! Lol
Seriously. I got hung up on the " you may be out the door and homeless in 5 weeks part " but the number of changes in her story, the mixed messages, the, I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm ambivalent, let's not spend so money next Christmas, and lighten up....I'm fine"
That really doesn't tell you what she wants? In that moment, when said it, it was telling me what she felt like....in that moment ...but that could change.
Well, it changed in a matter of minutes to being okay again. Okay fine.
As long as I don't bring up feelings ( mine ) or talking about any of this "shit" as she calls it....she'll be fine and we'll be fine ...just don't do that one thing again or else...because it creates chaos.
So, as far as I can tell....she doesn't want me out. ( as in gone for good ). She wants me ..."out of the house" for longer lengths of time ...so she can have the house to herself for more extended times. Like...even an entire weekend including the work week sometimes.
For her, it'd probably be great if I was a long haul truck driver..gone for a week or more at a time.
I also think, this idea of "object constancy " is coming into play here. Through that lens...this starts to make better sense.
"Cohesion " is a new concept that I just discovered . It appears, my SO if having a tough time in these areas.
My problem with her is abusive behavior and manipulation. If we can gets those two thing settled....then I'll be okay too.
I recently heard someone say "the love language of a narcissist are insults "
I'm not saying she's a narcissists, as in NPD....but when she gets on a roll, and starts throwing insults....it definitely has that flavor at times. I think splitting can account for that. If she is BPD....then she's got some of that in there...which is a huge trigger for me....and where the abuse ( for me ) comes from.
But also saying....after looking up CPTSD. CPTSD, shares a lot of overlap with BPD even if they are distinctly different in some ways. Before I start calling the kettle black....I need to watch my own behavior as well. We truly may be much more alike that she thinks. When she's not splitting ....I like her very much and love her at the same time.
She says she doesn't like me at times either....but the difference is ( IMHO ) the black and white thinking....including the ALL or Nothing way of seeing things.
In essence, to her: I'm either all good...or all bad. And she goes back and forth between the two. " I love you, I really don't like you, I love you, I really don't like you"
I'm more: " I love you always...but I don't always like what you do".
Thats the biggest difference between us...as I'm seeing it. When she's in "I don't like you " phase....that really does hurt my feelings but it's exactly what she doesn't want to hear.
Never mention Fight Club. I get it.
Kindness and an honest heart
You deserve kindness and an honest heart in your partner. If she’s very conflicted in her feelings, giving you hot and cold treatment, that’s not a sign of enduring love.
The future with her should feel safe. You should be able to trust her. There shouldn’t be manipulation or abuse.
Thank You For Your Understanding Swedish
I appreciate your ability to see through things and get to the heart of the matter. It helps me draw conclusions which are difficult for me at times. That's a gift!
Here's a text she sent me yesterday to put things into perspective:
"I sure love you Kelly! ❤️
Don't forget it, don't question it, and don't over think it!
We're on track, so don't sweat the small stuff!"
Yet, only the day before it was:
" I don't think we're a good match, I can't live with this Chaos and drama...."
First, look at these two hallmark characteristics of Borderline Personality Disorder.
Mood swings: Dramatic shifts in mood that can last from minutes to hours
The thing is, our relationship ( and her ) is not without kindness or an honest heart. ( her also )
The problem is not even that she's conflicted ( as it appears in this genuine text from her )
The problem is: the extreme mood swings and never knowing what you will get. That's exactly what makes the relationship unstable. In this case, I'm not blaming her ( to be sure ) but I'm blaming this aspect of the disorder ....in her.....that makes her unstable and their fore our relationship unstable but !!
I'm the other half of that relationship.
What she was telling me was not to overthink things. That's a big theme of hers that she tells me all the time. The problem is....that's not the solution. Sounds good, but it's not what is needed to fix the issue I'm having.
My issue, isn't that I don't understand what I need: the why, the how, the what. So to "stop overthinking " isn't what I need to do. It's a nice gesture and her heart is in the right place but that's not the answer. I dont need to stop ruminating. What I need is to problem solve and find an answer for my own reactions to these constant mood swings and never knowing what I'm going to get.
Will I get the nice, kind, loving, caring, L...which is there, much of the time.
or "the other one"...
The "other one" can be irritable, sullen, angry, and moody. "Unstable"...describes "the other one" perfectly. Kind of a ticking time bomb you might say. That's a bit over dramatic but in context, it puts things into perspective.
I'm also beginning to see the bigger picture here.
In the list of my strengths which is absolutely true. Despite having panic attacks of my own for specific reasons.....I'm extremely good in a crisis: I'm calm headed...very stable, and don't panic. I can problem solve on my feet, and do what's needed almost instantly. I'm a good captain of the ship in order to avoid the rocks when all seems lost. I'll be the guy who steers the ship to safety. It's part of having CPTSD. When trouble calls...I'm your man!! Lol. Part of that is making decisions ( good ones ) while under stress...in the moment. It's part of this survival skills...to keep yourself out if harms way.
So, if you think about an unstable person, who can change at a moments notice due to external factors: anxiety, fear, easily frustrated, impatient, etc
These are not good qualities to have when you're you'r captaining a ship and trying to keep them off the rocks...especially in a crisis!
So that's when my skills are needed. The problem is....that only works for me in an emergency. The rest of the time....I get panic attacks when this "unstable" person is around me. Not knowing what you can predict, and which one you'll get ( kind and loving ...or the "other one" )
So, it's not that I don't get kind or even an honest heart....I get that, intermittently, between the other one of various versions in between.
I understand, this is all an emotional stability and regulating problem. It's not all or nothing....there's lots of shades of grey.
However, because of her disorder...it actually ( in reality ) do get this all or nothing effect. She's literally, externalizing what she's feeling...so I'm getting this "real time" externalizarion...kind of spewed all over the place. ( and on me sometimes ). When I react to the spew....she reacts to me because that's all she sees. Symptom, response, response.
This even came out just the other day when we were talking. Trying to explain to me cause and effect. I understand exactly what she was saying. The problem again is...cause and effect is missing a key component...the symptom.
Without the "symptom" ....what you have left is cause and effect.
Anyone who's ever read anything I've said in the past knows ...I have a very firm grasp of cause and effect !! Lol
This was also a nice gesture and showing effort of her part. I recognize it for what it was...but it's still incomplete. Somethings missing.
What's missing? The symptoms:
Self-image instability: A constantly shifting sense of self and identity
Self image instability, is probably the one that causes the biggest issues. Probably because it goes unseen by the person who has it. I'm guessing.
But I see it. And that's what's missing in the "cause and effect" vs Symptom, response, response dynamic.
If you, as the symptom, can't see the symptom...then that's going to tough to fix....if you're the other person. In fact, that's not fixable on your end.
Which cones back to me. I can do things about my end. So, remaining calm, reducing my reactions and using my strenghs: being good in a crisis and not panicking....is exactly what I'm trying to do ( in myself ).
This isn't about her heart or not being kind. This is about that "hot and cold" you so succinctly pointed out.
I just described this "hot and cold" as best I can. My term "the other one" is also a good metaphor. It's not two people or a split personality. It's one half of a person one moment. Then the other half the next. Splitting is a perfect description.
And, I know I'm really getting it. Everyone owns these quailties...but when you split...you just get half of who you are.
People say, "he brings out the worst in me". Is this a sign of splitting? I'm thinking it is?
Ideally, you'd want to be the same, no matter what anyone else does. Like me in an emergency...my best self comes out...not the other way around. Capitalizing on that, it tells me exactly what to do.
As my last therapist use to tell me:
"Don't make anything you do, contingent on anyone else"
That even has more meaning now, in context to everything else.
It also helps explain "chaos".
Am I the "chaos" my SO keeps talking about? Nope. The chaos is what's happening inside her.
I get it.
PS And of course, I've split too. Can't forget that part. But as I'm saying this....I also know what it is. It appears however, the how, when and why I do it, is different than what I'm seeing with my SO. That's really the only difference. The splitting is the same.
Intermittent reinforcement
I think intermittent reinforcement would be a correct translation from my language. Have you heard of it? It’s the occasional ‘hot’ in a hot and cold situation. By learning we sometimes, but not always, get the reward of ‘hot’, the human brain is said to linger even in Arctic surroundings hoping for hot. Intermittent reinforcement ensnares the mind. It’s the same psychological mechanism that will keep us on slot machines. Hoping for the sweet rattle of coins.
I think intermittent reinforcement may make people stay in destructive relationships. Hoping for a day when ‘hot’ will permanently replace ‘cold’.
It sounds like she might mean well. I’m just afraid she won’t be consistent enough to give you some peace of heart.
I'm Familiar With the Phenomenon..
At the same time, her "hot and cold cycle" appears more to be directly connected to me and stress.
I definitely notice her irritation levels fluctuate more due to work for example.
She works at home part time, and in the office the rest of the time. On office days, her mood and irritations levels change.
Stress is definitely a big influence. When stress levels rise....the "needy" comment comes out. Even the other day when called to help with the grand babies on short notice this last weekend, her comment in passing was "more neediness".
I went skiing yesterday, and was gone all day and she seemed very happy when I came home. Not that I wasn't around, more, that she had more "me time" and no one there to bother or interrupt her. She was happy to see me when I returned and things were more relaxed. The fact that she was more relaxed was clearly tied to "us" being more relaxed. Her introversion showing through I think.
As long as I don't try to: "conflict resolve", "trouble shoot" or talk about anything related to her ie: problems or issues Im having with her behavior.....
She's mostly hot....in fact...most of the time....
as long as I stay away from certain things ( these known things ) conflict is low. Including me staying away ( like skiing for example ). Things go much more smoothly.
Her comment when I asked about her day: " I had a good day ( painting )"...and my reply: " I had a good day too"....pretty much answers that question.
Tempermental is a good explanation for this I think.
A thought passed my mind about this yesterday while I was away. It feels very much like a "part time" relationship for me, when I'm more apt to want "full time" by nature. Full time doesn't refer to chronological time, I'm referring to "connection" and feeling bonded in that way.
With her, it's more like "part time" connection and feeling bonded. Too much connection....and she goes cold. As long as I don't exceed her limit....then what I get is hot...or at least....connected.
When I hear the word "needy"....that means...time to disconnect for her.
Intermittent Reinforcement
I just remembered how I know this.
My ex-wife ( I believe ) used sex in this way. She knew how much sex meant to me, and used it to "get things" from me. It was a tool to gain control....like a reward for "good behavior" but only intermittently.
It was just enough ( barely ) to keep me on the hook, believing you'd get more if you did more.
And it worked ! But left me feeling empty and unhappy most of the time.
This doesn't feel at all what's happening with my SO and I . At this point, I genuinely believe she has no interest in sex what so ever. It's what she's consistently been saying the entire time and we're not having sex. There's nothing intermittent about it. Lol
And I'm slowly adjusting to this as time goes on. It's not nearly as distressing as it was only a few months ago. I guess I'm just getting use to it ...and idea in general. And not taking it personally.
My ex-wife was a completely different story. She was definitely using sex as a means to get what she wanted. It made me feel used and taken advantag of.
It doesn't feel that way with my SO.