Your mindset can make all the difference when you are in a relationship with an ADHD partner.
I want to share a note from the spouse of an ADHD partner who, after discovering ADHD was a factor in his crumbling marriage, decided to try to be more open to his wife's 'way of being' and experiences. I was moved by the shift in his attitude:
"This weekend we spent the whole Saturday together and I just watched her for the first time. What an amazing thing when you watch somebody with excitement rather than disdain. We even went to SAMs Club and she forgot her purse with eh SAMs club card. In the past I would have come unglued. This time we had fun with it. It gave us more time to talk in the car, and it ended up because of that we got back later than orignially planned but ran across the most amazing sunset...which of course she had to bring up to me since I would have never noticed. I sat back and thought "I should have done this years ago..."
This man's ability to benignly observe his wife's behaviors, and switch from "disdain" to "excitement" is a wonderful development for them. They will still have lots of work to do to create interactions they both enjoy consistently, but he has shown the flexibility of mind needed to change from having a negative 'filter' about a partner with ADHD to a more positive mindset.
I talk about negative filters quite a bit in my second book, The Couple's Guide to Thriving with ADHD, because they are often present in both partners as they struggle in a relationship. This man was looking to feel disdain for his wife, but he didn't assess whether or not his filter was appropriate until he started reading about ADHD and relationships. Sadly, negative filters can kill your feelings fast - it's no coincidence that he immediately felt more affectionately towards his partner when he decided to just "let things go" for a bit and consciously appreciate her rather than critique her. When you start thinking "...she's never going to be able to do X" you start behaving differently...and typically not better!
One of the most common filters is an anger filter. This one is not only harmful, it's contagious! If you feel, in general, that your partner never gives you a break, or never seems to deal with his or her issues, you will behave more curtly towards them, perhaps diminishing them in your relationship. When you do, what is there to be optimistic about? I'm not suggesting you should pretend that everything is okay, when it's not. Far from it! I'm suggesting that we should be aware of our filters so that, like the man above, we can test out new ones and see what happens. His ability to watch his wife doesn't solve her underlying forgetfulness, but it makes the likelihood that they will both be able to find ways to deal with it MUCH more likely. We are all, as humans, much more motivated to make changes when we are feeling happy and supported.
Do you have the right mindset for your relationship? I urge you to think about what attitudes you filter your relationship through, and I challenge you to try on some new, more benevolent ones. Put another way, try to make yourself "Teflon" instead of "Velcro." Good things may come about...and you'll likely feel better about yourself in the process.
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Comments
Anger....
I feel angry and resentful so much in my relationship and it has been taking a physical toll on me. I have been in therapy for over a year and am trying new approaches, but I still encounter daily challenges. This weekend, I have fallen off the wagon and found myself yelling a lot at my ADHD husband. There are times where I wish I had a buffer, count to 10, something... I just lose it sometimes and I always feel bad about it afterwards. It makes me realize that I still have a lot of learning and growing to do and your post made me mindful of it. Thank you.
But what about us?
I am really confused. I keep reading about all these ways to deal with someone who has ADHD and trying to make it work with them. So at what point do they try? I have tried everything suggested and that does not remove the fact that I am completely lonely, ignored, and abandoned. Whether or not he is doing it on purpose, it is happening, and acting understanding to it does not suddenly make it better. I don't know a lot of human beings who can be happy in any relationship where they are completely ignored, as if they don't matter whatsoever. SO CONFUSED.... SOOOOOOO confused. If the only hope for my relationship is that I must "deal with it" and change ways to understand them so that I don't get upset that I mean nothing to them - no thanks, I would rather not.
Sorry if I offended anyone. I am BEYOND frustrated and over this situation. I keep thinking if I were in a different relationship, I would have someone who expressed their love for me in a way that fulfilled me. A relationship is not meant to be abandoned; it is like a burning flame that needs kindle from each person. He is not giving any. I don't understand how that is acceptable, regardless of his "issues."
I understand
I understand how you feel. I can tell you that in my 6 1/2 years of marriage, nothing has changed on his part. I think some people like to use ADD/ADHD as an excuse rather than an explanation. An excuse implies he has no control over his behavior, whereas an explanation allows him to say "ADD is what lies behind my seeming lack of affection or consideration---I recognize this, and so because my wife is important, I'll set reminders in my phone, place sticky notes on my car and mirror, etc to remind me of what actions I need to take so I can do better because she is important to me." It's no different than an ADHD student that needs to learn different study habits to achieve academic success (as I've seen done and with great success).
I think it's important to be understanding, but I think it's very important for your own well being not be a push over and taken for granted. I would suggest sitting down with him and letting him now how very hurt you are and outline things he can do, and can CHOOSE to do, that will make you happier.
I, for example, am posting this on Thanksgiving. Why you may ask? Because my husband chose to leave me alone for the holiday and go visit his parents. I had invited them here, but he wanted to go there instead. I couldn't go because I have to work--something that he does Not do. We barely make ends meet now, and yet he refuses to apply for jobs. Nonetheless, I didn't complain or express the hurt I felt. I was a bit sad when I didn't hear from him (nothing new) so I called and finally got ahold of him last night. We talked briefly and he said he would call me in the morning. Well morning came today and I didn't hear from him, so I called him at 9am. No answer. Called again at 10:30--no answer. Finally, he answered at 12:30. He said he was watching the parade--happy as a clam. I said, "I thought u were going to call me--I tried calling you twice." "Did you? oh sorry, i was eating breakfast, mom made waffles" I could barely speak. My parents aren't living so I've spent the day alone. And yet knowing that he couldn't even call me to say anything. nothing. Not even after seeing the "reminder" homemade card I snuck into his suitcase. On the day were people should be thankful, I didn't even enter my husband's mind. Interestingly I come to mind when he needs a bill paid or anything else he needs and wants to ensure there's enough money in the account. For me, today was the final reminder I needed to leave. I will not keep subjecting myself to such purposeful pain. It's not occasional, it's every day for over 6 years with no accountability at all.
So I leave you with this, I think there are many wonderful people with ADD who love their spouses and honestly want to make them happy. And I think those people make an effort. Because anyone, can make an effort. But we can't excuse all rude, unappreciative, inconsiderate behavior with ADD/ADHD--there are simply some people who don't care... there are those who wouldn't be considerate regardless of ADD/ADHD. ADD shouldn't be a crutch and an excuse to give someone a free pass---rather it should be an explanation of behavior used as a tool for modification. Being emotionally or physically abused is never acceptable. You have every right to feel the way you do. A counselor once told me that there's nothing wrong with ultimatums. My husband sure didn't like hearing that, and no wonder, because it meant he would have to change his behavior. He never has, and that's probably my fault, because I'm still here as his emotional punching bag and so he never had any reason to change.
I don't mean to discourage you. I pray that with counseling or communication, or whatever you choose, your marriage will be amazing. I only mean to say that everyone is capable of change, and I hate to see someone else go through the pain I've experienced. Everyone is different, but only you know your spouse and your situation. At the end of the day, you need to look out for you too, especially if no one else is. ADD/ADHD may not be a choice, but it certainly shouldn't be an excuse.
Very best to you.
petparent...
(So I leave you with this, I think there are many wonderful people with ADD who love their spouses and honestly want to make them happy. And I think those people make an effort. Because anyone, can make an effort. But we can't excuse all rude, unappreciative, inconsiderate behavior with ADD/ADHD--there are simply some people who don't care... there are those who wouldn't be considerate regardless of ADD/ADHD. ADD shouldn't be a crutch and an excuse to give someone a free pass---rather it should be an explanation of behavior used as a tool for modification. Being emotionally or physically abused is never acceptable. You have every right to feel the way you do. A counselor once told me that there's nothing wrong with ultimatums. My husband sure didn't like hearing that, and no wonder, because it meant he would have to change his behavior. He never has, and that's probably my fault, because I'm still here as his emotional punching bag and so he never had any reason to change.
I don't mean to discourage you. I pray that with counseling or communication, or whatever you choose, your marriage will be amazing. I only mean to say that everyone is capable of change, and I hate to see someone else go through the pain I've experienced. Everyone is different, but only you know your spouse and your situation. At the end of the day, you need to look out for you too, especially if no one else is. ADD/ADHD may not be a choice, but it certainly shouldn't be an excuse.)
Petparent this is very well said! There is nothing wrong with a person who is born w/ a fast mind...But, when it becomes your excuse to ignore you're mate, and your vows...That's emotional abuse in my eyes...
I am in the exact same place as you are. I am having the same argument with my husband and I also feel lonely, ignored and abandoned and he sees nothing wrong in his behavior. He believes that as long as he isn't messing around on me and hanging out in the bars then I should be a happy woman. That his being a "good man" should be sufficient. And when I tell him my needs aren't being met I am bombarded with "it's all about me" and how I'm being insecure and needy. I am so tired of giving and giving and giving and getting nothing in return...and knowing that life with him will never be how it was in the beginning when he was hyperfocusing on me is beyond depressing.
I could've written your letter verbatim and feel exactly as you do. I don't know how much longer I can stay in a marriage with my ADD husband. I'm so depressed and exhausted from trying to get him to understand my feelings and be the man I fell in love with. I know that man is gone forever!
Keep telling myself it's not so bad
I've wondered for over 25 years of marriage why I stay. Because, it's not bad enough to leave, but it doesn't feel good enough to stay. I read through my journal and the recurring theme for YEARS is how lonely I am. He's a good husband- successful, tries hard, faithful except for an emotional, "unintentional" attachment, supportive. I just can't understand why I'm so unhappy. After the episode with his emotional "affair" (it wasn't a full blown emotional affair, in that they were going to lunch together or expressing their love for one another etc- long story for another forum), we started counseling together with a great therapist and one of the things we came up with to improve out marriage was to have "date nights". We (my husband and I) agreed to take turns each month planning a date. Well, he wanted to go first and planned a great date. I felt so different. It was hard to even remember when the last time it was that I felt like that. We have never gone on a couples vacation together- the two of us- in over 20 years. I envy seeing Facebook photos of friends showing their couples' getaways. Anyway, back to date night. Basically, he's only remembered the 1 out of the 3 date nights he was responsible for. I planned two and already had my third one planned and partially executed. He only has to remember 1 night in 60 days and he forgets 2 out of 3 times. Then, he gets mad at me because I only focus on the negatives. When I complained (of course this is another criticism of him because that is ALL I do, right), he said that I act like such a victim when I'm not. He said that date night was a way to show each other we care. He said that! Then he said that he did Thanksgiving to show me that he cared. He thought it was the same thing (background- I made reservations at the Ritz Carlton for Thanksgiving day brunch because I had a huge final exam right after and I was struggling- he said it was great until I told him how much it was. Then, he decides to make Thanksgiving all on his own- he can hardly boil pasta). Anyway, he never mentioned date night ONCE, but I was supposed to know that him making thanksgiving dinner was supposed to count for date night. Date night with our two children. He of course mentions his busy schedule, how he helped me study once in the car, etc. All that was supposed to excuse the fact that he simply forgot date night for the second month in a row. Not to mention the hurt feelings and "argument" from the last forgotten date night. Now, he's saying how unreasonable I am. Am I? Am I such a bad person to expect him to remember date night once every 60 days? Even if we didn't have time for one that month, was it too much for me to expect him to mention postponing it? I'm the bad person here because I can't focus on the good things he does. I put so much more meaning into date nights than he did. We've never had offical date nights. This was after the event with the emotional affair- to get our marriage back together and to make each other feel like we are important to each other. Important enough to spend a little time to plan one evening. I shouldn't have put that much value on that knowing that he wasn't likely to be able to follow through. I loved that first date so much. Is it wrong to want that again? To not feel like an afterthought or not a thought at all? It meant too much and I know that. It symbolized a fresh start to me and he can't understand that. I told him and the counselor that date nights are over. It just sets him up for failure and me for disappointment. All of his texts since then act like nothing has happened. Totally texts me like we didn't have a big blow up over this. I feel like I'm going crazy sometimes. How do you just change your feelings like that??? I feel like our fresh start is over and he feels like I'm wrong and overemotional. He won't apologize because he doesn't think he has done anything wrong. I'm just going back to how things were- pretending on the outside and hurting on the inside. I've done it for 25 years, what's 25 more. Only, I can't keep the hurt from spilling out sometimes.
"I've done it for 25 years,
"I've done it for 25 years, what's 25 more. Only, I can't keep the hurt from spilling out sometimes."
I'll tell you what it is, sweet lady deserving of happiness, it's TWENTY FIVE MORE YEARS. It's your one beautiful life.
I'm the non-adhd spouse married to the ADHD. I love him. But I want to live happily as well. Lately I've been thinking that we may be able to just be better friends if we separate. It hurts like hell, but in 5 years? Maybe I'll have peace in my life instead of living with this unintentional tornado he creates in our life.
I hope you find happiness.
Melissa-you have got to be kidding me
I'm with ACFWAD--why the heck should WE need "the right mindset" to deal with an ADHD person?? When does the ADHD person have to try? We have been to three different counselors and pretty much all I get is ways to approach HIM so that it is easier for HIM to function within the parameters of reality. HUH?? In the past year I have come to a few conclusions: 1.) my 15 year old son is more mature than DH is and the 13 year old son who has Asperger's is quickly passing DH by as well. It's like being the den mother here--three teens I have to corral. 2.) I feel no guilt any more for doing whatever the hell I please since it is unlikely to even register with DH. I have brought home clothes, jewelry, shoes-he never notices. Not that I am out spending willy-nilly, I'm not, we can't afford it, but when I see something I need/want that we can afford, I just buy it. He never notices. 3.) ADHD is a wonderful excuse for not being a grown up AND for viewing yourself as a super fun, quirky misunderstood person (poor baby). I for one am pretty darn tired of having to think about what I say and how I say it and when I say it and how much I say and the tone of my voice when I say it because ALL of those things will affect whether the ADHD adult will hear you, retain the information, care about the information, only hear pieces of the information. It really is a ridiculous way to have a marriage--one adult and one perpetual child. This "right mindset" crap is for the birds.
Thanks, dvance. I agree with
Thanks, dvance. I agree with you. The only difference between me and you is that my daughters are young adults (in their 20s) and they definitely are more mature and better functioning than their father, my husband.
Any partner needs to try
See my post below, but the short answer to this is in ALL relationships BOTH partners need to try. What I write about is tips to help each person get past common issues associated with partnerships impacted by ADHD. One of those issues is ADHD partners not engaging fully (or often at all) with their partner for a wide variety of reasons. Another is non-ADHD partners being so angry and frustrated by that lack of engagement (or maturity, if you wish to call it that) that the relationship is also impacted negatively by that.
It would be ridiculous of me (as well as really bad advice) to suggest that you should simply give in and go along and that this will somehow fix your relationship or make you happy! All that would do would be make you (even more) miserable. Many ADHD partners do have difficulty hearing and/or remembering things their partners say (for too many reasons to go into here). That's a fact in many ADHD-impacted relationships. So to be able to be a partner to that person, you DO have to think about how you interact. But that's not the same thing as saying that your partner has no responsibility to learn how to interact better with you! He most certainly does.
I was not clear enough
Several people in the comments stream think that I am condoning an ADHD partner's not being a participant in the relationship with this post - that is not the case at all. The story I wrote about was about a couple where the ADHD partner was a participant, but behaved differently - in a way he didn't understand or tolerate very well. Her husband's "filter" towards her kept him from appreciating the good characteristics about his wife. When he put the filter aside he felt immediate love and appreciation. This is not AT ALL the same thing as living with an ADHD partner who is perpetually checked out and not interested in being a partner. Who, no matter what you do, won't respond.
That said, I see many times that part of the reason an ADHD partner checks out is because he or she perceives that the flak coming from a non-ADHD partner is too much to take. NOTE that I say "perceives." Often the non-ADHD partner is expressing frustration at the remoteness and lack of participation that the ADHD partner presents...so the 'starting place' for the downward spiral remains rooted in ADHD issues. That means that both the ADHD partner is to blame (for the unmanaged ADHD behaviors) AND that the non-ADHD partner is also to blame (for the negative responses that help shut the ADHD partner down.) A negative response from a non-ADHD partner will most likely make things worse, but isn't the only thing going on.
Non-ADHD partners do NOT need to "just deal with it" and, in fact, I bristle when people interpret what I write in that way. NO ONE should have to 'just deal with it' in a relationship! The whole point of having a relationship is to be with someone in a way that fulfills you (as well as supporting your family.) But it is also clear that to succeed as a couple you must be able to appreciate your partner for at least some good portion of his or her characteristics. If your partner has ADHD, that includes getting to know ADHD and appreciate what it adds, as well as learning how to accept or moderate the weaknesses it may cause. Some non-ADHD (and other ADHD) partners are up to that challenge, and some are not. And it IS a challenge.
No relationship will work without both partners trying to make it work. The issue isn't one of you adjusting and adjusting and adjusting. The issue is figuring out whether or not THE TWO OF YOU can change your dynamic in a way that will make the relationship work. From your description it sounds as if he would need to learn to express himself and be more attentive (common issues) and you would probably need to get beyond frustration to some place that allows you to let some things you aren't that fond of go so you can enjoy the rest (also a common issue). And, once that happens, would you be happy? Is there a internal core to your relationship that is worth seeking out and rekindling? Only you know the answer to that question.
So that's a long way of saying that it is not acceptable to give up your life to a partner who is non-responsive because that partner has ADHD. Either the two of you need to find out how to change the dynamic or your relationship will most likely end.
At this point it is easier to
At this point it is easier to just suck it up. No amount of therapy or meds can fundamentally change a brain issue that is really not conducive to living as a couple. I don't care how many times counselors say to me "you shouldn't have to suck it up", it's not true. How can I not just give up on all expectations when patterns of behavior repeat themselves over and over and over despite numerous conversations to change them. Another example--my DH just got a job in which he pays for his travel expenses then submits expense reports to get reimbursed. He has his own account and his own credit card for these expenses. He started this job Dec 15-literally a week ago, so this will be new behavior for him. We have had at least three conversations in the past week about how we need to keep his business account and our family finances totally separate-not only to keep things clean for work (audit) but for our relationship and yet today he asked me if he wanted me to use that money to purchase one last gift we need even though I will have the money on Wednesday. HUH??? When I asked him--calmly, at a time he wasn't focused on anything else, when we had time for a conversation-I know the drill--why after several conversations about keeping the two monies separate would he offer that and he said to make things easier for me so I didn't have to do it on Wednesday. So he looks like a super helpful thoughtful husband and I am the bitch that reminded him of the rules HE HIMSELF MADE AND AGREED TO. 19 years of this adds up to why bother. This terrible communication plus the three women who have caught his eye in the past two years plus the million projects unfinished plus the bank account with thousands of dollars in it that I knew nothing about and still have no idea where it all came from (he won't tell me) plus lies about all kinds of things big and small equals suck it up until the 8th grader goes to college and do whatever I please in the meantime. ADHD is a convenient excuse for irresponsible behavior. Now, understand that both of our sons have ADHD so I believe it is a real thing BUT I have raised our boys with the knowledge that while it is a big bummer that they have to compensate for their ADHD, it is NOT an excuse for anything-lying, not doing homework, speaking disrespectfully, being late. And yes, a fast brain is super cool, but if it means you treat the people around you poorly or you think you deserve special treatment, then a fast brain isn't a strength any more.
Maybe a different tack is in order
Since it seems as if you have made up your mind that things will not change, then a different approach is probably in order...and you are on the way. As you say, do what you want. But I would also add to that some sort of support for you that helps you manage the bitterness you seem to feel. Anger, frustration and bitterness can eat you from the inside out, and the four years you have left before your last child heads away to college is a long time to feel that way.
You may well have already thought of these things, but perhaps you can include the following in your life:
It sounds as if in the end you will be choosing to be on your own. If this is the case, I suspect you will ultimately will feel happier if you do things to help your mental health and physical well being in this time of trial.
Hope this helps, at least a little.
Thank you for the reply
Thank you for the reply Melissa. It's funny-I do not think of myself as bitter but rereading my recent posts it sure sounds like I am. It's incredibly hard to keep being positive and assuming things will change when 19 years of experience tells me things don't change. If a person has lied to you 15 times, what makes me NOT assume he won't lie again on the 16th time the same set of circumstances present themselves? We have been in counseling with four different counselors over the 19 years and nothing sticks. When DH feels threatened, he lies. And you know what's even more humorous? He's a great guy. If you met him, you would wonder what is wrong with ME. He is handsome and charming and funny...but he has no staying power for anything that requires adult levels of thought and attention. He is like a monkey after a shiny object-whatever catches his attention at the time is where his attention goes. In my garage are wooden boxes that were supposed to become some project. A HUGE beer keg that was supposed to become some project. An old air conditioner that was supposed to get recycled. Old wooden skiis, a HUGE Budwieser mirror (like from behind a bar), wire bird cages, copper wire (to recycle), tons of old "silver" objects that were supposed to get recycled. You know where all this stuff came from? The GARBAGE. You know why? Because it IS garbage. And he is medicated. He thinks he is fine. He was fired last January for I am not really sure what-his explanation did not make any sense, but I have no way to get the real story. He started a new job literally December 15. It necessitates lots of record keeping and is about 70% travel. My guess is he will be able to manage for about two years AND the effort of managing that will leave him with nothing left for us at home, but we'll see.
I am actually much better since I decided that I am done. He has no idea that I have made this mental decision-why would he care? I have lost 20 pounds since June and continue to work out a ton. I have many friends that I go to theater and dinner and opera with, I love my two boys--the three of us do fine. When DH is with us, it's a big project, but whatever. I don't know if I am bitter or just FINALLY accepted what I have and what I will never have. It's pretty freeing. DH noticed that something changed-nothing specifically happened, but one day in June it was like a light went on in my head-THIS IS NEVER GOING TO CHANGE. I can't even explain it to him, but he noticed. If someone else told me that, I would likely laugh at them, but that is truly what happened. I see a counselor, I take anti-depressants, I exercise, I am moving up in my job such that I would be able to support myself when this ends. I don't hate him-in some ways I am more to blame. My expectations were not realistic. I made a lousy choice in a life partner. I expected an equal adult partner, one who could manage the boring parts of adult life, one who could pay attention and communicate clearly. Those were not realistic expectations for this man. He does not have a mean bone in his body-he would lay down in front of a speeding train for me or our two boys. I would like to say he tries really hard, but I don't know if that's the case-I can't tell if he is trying or not. He says he is, but his word isn't worth much any more. On a day to day basis we get along fine, it's just the big stuff--any and all decisions are on me, period. At this point I am so wrung out and exhausted-I cannot imagine shouldering the entire weight of this family for the rest of my life, but that's the way it is. Like so many others, it's not entirely clear why I stay beyond financially. We cannot afford two households, so any discussion about divorcing is kind of pointless. But what do I get from him? Nothing. Emotional support? Some, but nothing I can't do without. Financial support? When he is working. Co-parenting? Occasionally if he is around (around physically or mentally). Company? Some, but again, nothing I can't do without. And I have done without when he moved out for 6 months and when he has been deployed or stationed out of state, so I know how to be alone. It's not that hard.
dvance....This comment is life for many of us...
(He is handsome and charming and funny...but he has no staying power for anything that requires adult levels of thought and attention.)
So, since many of us know this about our spouses, and we have come to expect it...I would like to here others coping mechanisms that works for them. So they can experience a life of peace and sanity...
I know what doesn't work...I've lived out that list...Verbal bashing, trying to fix and/or control, enable/mothering?
I see me in this
I have ADHD.
I am sure that at this time my wife is completely fed up with me. I understand this - as the perpetrator of the pain. It should be possible to change, and I am working to change this.
It is not a bummer to have
It is not a bummer to have adhd thats your experience.
the anger filter
Non-ADHD partners do NOT need to "just deal with it" and, in fact, I bristle when people interpret what I write in that way. NO ONE should have to 'just deal with it' in a relationship!
Hi Melissa,
Let's be perfectly frank: people on this site constantly misinterpret what you are trying to say about how to work with an ADHD partner. I think it is because their "anger filter," to use your words, is turned on HIGH due to years of living with an ADHD partner, and the accompanying chaos. I also feel they are indirectly directing their anger toward you, because they feel that either by outright demanding or passively ignoring responsibilities, their ADHD partners are already communicating, intentionally or not, that they are expecting their partner to do more while they do less. When you ask them to do more, it reminds them of their partners, and they lose it.
However, in life, we all have choices. No one MAKES you into a jerk. You CHOOSE to be...or not. "He made me" or "She made me" are the arguments of four year olds, and we are all adults here, right?
The message is pretty simple, just really challenging to accept and apply:
I would add two things to
I would add two things to this very good list:
If you want to be treated well by another person and that person refuses to treat you well, you can choose to leave the relationship.
If you want to be treated well by your spouse and he or she refuses to treat you well and you're sick or unemployed or otherwise dependent on your spouse for support, than you can't choose to leave the relationship.
"However, in life, we all
"However, in life, we all have choices. No one MAKES you into a jerk. You CHOOSE to be...or not. "He made me" or "She made me" are the arguments of four year olds, and we are all adults here, right?"
This applies to people with ADHD as well. When a person with ADHD is a jerk, it's because he or she chooses to behave that way.
You are absolutely correct,
You are absolutely correct, Rosered. It could apply to anyone, whether or not their relationship is impacted by ADHD.
And trust me, I was thinking
And trust me, I was thinking just as much about myself while writing that comment as anyone :). It's all up to me to choose my behavior.
Nice list...momof2
I saw your other comment to me, didn't have time to respond (Holiday company)...Loved it though...You said some great stuff...looks like it's been erased...You're one of my favorite posters;)
Point about my experience's
(Often the non-ADHD partner is expressing frustration at the remoteness and lack of participation that the ADHD partner presents...so the 'starting place' for the downward spiral remains rooted in ADHD issues. That means that both the ADHD partner is to blame (for the unmanaged ADHD behaviors) AND that the non-ADHD partner is also to blame (for the negative responses that help shut the ADHD partner down.) A negative response from a non-ADHD partner will most likely make things worse, but isn't the only thing going on.)
Everyone of us is different, also our spouses are different...But, I have lived w/ a severe add wife long enough to know that these two ( "lack of participation by her" and "my reaction to it") point's you make are where lyes most of the problem.
If something is constant we can expect it, we can plan for it. In the earlier years of our marriage I did not understand nor did I expect to be so put upon...So, I battled it (lack of participation) by questioning it. When no responses (denial) came that made sense to me, no ownership or explanations of the actions being produced. I just kept doing the work, but it took a toll on me. I developed the feelings of not being loved, being used, and eventually bitter and angry. So your second point (negative responses) is what she was receiving from me.
Let me just say right here that we were so messed up in our ability to communicate and see life in a way that remotely resembled one another's view ( pretty much no commonality) that the counselor in his frustration after 5 or 6 months of counseling. Look at us and just made this statement, "Have you two considered just counting your losses, and moving ahead with your own lives"....I did not respond...And she immediately said...NO!...In hind-site this maybe the first crack in her armor of denial.
Fast forward to today, has Add changed? No, have we? Yes, thankfully...Is it still a daily struggle of self awareness for how I react to add behaviors..Yes...But, back to the original point about positives...I have to know my wife and I love each other, and our marriage is suppose to be. I also have to live a life of thankfulness and self-awareness, not as a victim.
c ur self...
sorry, double post
WTH?
This begs refreshing.....Thank you Melissa
This is what I wish MORE people could accept where adhd in a relationship is concerned. There is a HUGE difference trying to have a marriage with someone in DENIAL about adhd ( versus accepting of the REALITY they have it). Common sense says, in my humble opinion, it is not going to happen. What EACH person brings to a relationship is based on wanting their lives to thrive....TOGETHER. The non spouse really does need to give it every effort on their part (in truth and dignity) and if denial still reigns......then they need to make a final decision.......and that is where I think so much of the pain is seen in these posts.........hello?.....ME, myself and I. NOT wanting to make a decision.....they never EVER thought would happen in THEIR life.
P.S. This whole line of posts from this blog are very insightful and worthy of reading. It is from a couple years ago forward.
I have been reading post
I have been reading post after post and I can't help but to be feeling the same way. It feels so time consuming that I am afraid I wouldn't have a life outside of constantly chasing after my relationship expending massive amounts of energy to make it work. I have a demanding career and I just don't think I have time to do this. I feel guilty but it's not the kind of life I have envisioned for myself.
I appreciate you Melissa, excellent post!
I think I've made strides in this area (just knowing what to expect helps:)) over the past year or so...It sure has improved our relationship...When I focus on acceptance and look for the positives I'm definitely more pleasant to be around...My wife's pastor who has become a good friend, and whom also married us. Told me before we married...He said, c ur self, you're going to have a Tiger by the tail...He has no idea...lol...lol....
Also I realized being overwhelmed by another person's living of life was making me the one with the problem...She was happy :) with herself.
And you know, the more I ignore, or lets call it, "try not to fix her," which basically was destroying what little self-esteem she had...The sweeter she is, the more self aware she is, and the harder she works at this marriage thing:)
Trying to be optimistic
I keep trying to see if perhaps I am really that insensitive, if handling this situation is so much clearer for everybody else and I just need to figure it out by reading blogs looking for a change in my perspective, a change in my mindset. By the way, I chose OCD as part of my user name because that is what I look like to my wife. I know that I am extremely opinionated, but I also know that having been evaluated by a Doctor it turns out that I have "Obsessive Personality" which is a couple of notches down from OCD.
Still, if I look OCD to my wife, I need to be mindful of that and accept that how I project myself is not the same as how I am perceived. That is something I need to manage. Just like I expect her to realize that one cannot go through life saying "I have ADD, I am how I am, I am proud of having made it this far, and do not dare tell me I could do anything different because I have ADD."
To me, that has been the sticky point all along. Reading these blogs has shown me I am not alone in resenting the attitude that to me looks like an excuse, not an explanation, as someone else wrote way above this post. I know it takes two to make a relationship work, I know that I could possibly be doing more and that there are things that I have tried and tried to change in myself without much progress. But I have tried them, rather than telling her like she just tell me: You are not going to change me. You are not my father. If you can accept me the way I am, good. Otherwise, let's split.
There is no semblance of accommodation, there is no intention of trying. She gets offended (as in getting very upset, telling me I am being disrespectful and aggressive, and crying) any time I have ended up saying that I think we all can try to change, or that even with ADD every now and then one must be able to say: "I just realized that I [whatever]. I am sorry."
No, anything that does not amount to a compliment is an attack. Seriously.
Not long ago I came to her with a frying pan we bought overseas six weeks before, which I just found with scratches as if someone had cut meat on it with a kitchen knife. If it was not me, it must have been her, but I already know not to ask how, why, or when because it is an attack. So I came to point it out in a different way, not accusing, just pointing out, to see if that could be the magical way to say it. My words: "Look, this is barely six weeks old, and it is already scratched like this." even tone trying not to create a conflict. Response: "Are you going to reprimand me?". All I wanted was some sort of: "I tried to be careful, but messed it up.", or "I did not mean too, sorry.", or ANYTHING that showed she cared.
I understand missing words in a conversation, misinterpreting what she reads, doing something without considering the consequences, thinking something does not matter (even if it matters to the other person). But I do not understand being utterly unable to be accountable for anything.
J
Hi J
Reading your post I see myself, but, I had to make some changes...You ask if you are just that insensitive? Denial makes being sensitive very hard or at least is does for me...You also state you expect her to realize one cannot go through life etc, etc, etc......What I had to finally do was change that to....I accept that she views her add as the limiting factor in her life when it comes to...etc...etc...etc... Loosing the expectation really helped us, and me personally because its the way it is, and it's not my job to change it...Of course unless Love changes it....The frying pan thing sounds like something I would do, and your wife's response sounds a little like what I could expect back...I don't know about you, but, the response back to me is more about our past struggles, and many of my mistakes in dealing with her behaviors, than a calm questions about a scratched pan....
Have good one!
Being condescending?
I understand your point, and how that can change the relationship to reduce conflict unless the partner in question feels that by changing that expectation you just turned condescending. How can you go about it without falling into a patronizing attitude of not asking your partner for certain things, trying to take some responsibilities away from them, and making sure that when you speak with them you use simpler language and shorter sentences? In another blog in this site someone wrote something along the lines of "I must sound to other people like I am a preschool teacher when they hear me talking to my spouse."
I know that my wife would tolerate very little of that. Been there... You can probably imagine her reaction when I have said: "You really do not know what that means?" in *genuine* surprise at something that I thought perhaps she had not heard well the first time and I repeated to make sure she got, and still did not.
J
Not condescending...Just accepting...
I'm not necessarily trying to take things off of her...but, I do want her to know I am trying to live with her in an understanding manner...But, I have found in my life, it is so easy to have expectations directed toward her when (for lack of a better way to say it) she attempts to drag me into some issue she has got her self into, going against my (her husband) advise or suggestion in the matter...So, I am firmly convinced, and it has proved to be the case....When she over steps/ignores my request/suggestions in an area of life. When the chaos starts unraveling because of poor planning, and failure to do the right things, for anything good to come out of it, for any lessons to be learned. I must back away...
It's amazing how being forced to be responsible for your own stuff...creates accountability add/adhd or not...
question
would you marry your spouses again, if you were single again? i'm asking this because i'm the daugher of an adhd man. my mother suffered a lot (infidelity, debt, you name it, too long for this post) she said she'd still do it all again . i was wondering how you felt
That's so hard to answer,
That's so hard to answer, because my marriage has been terrible now for a long time, but my children are the best thing in my life. Being a mom is by far the supreme experience of my life. Without my husband, I wouldn't have my darling daughters. (But they too have been seriously affected by their father's ADHD.)
Same thoughts my mother has
Same thoughts my mother has told me - I understand the difficulty of the question, knowing that it could mean I wasn't here at all asking this :)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts; it's hard, and there probably isn't an answer to it.
Don't think I'd do it agai
If I knew then what I know now, I never would have married my husband. I love my child dearly, but I would not do this to myself. It has been a soul destroying 14 years of marriage. I stay because of my son, but not for much longer.
Knowing what I know now,
Knowing what I know now, after 20 years of marriage would I do marry my DH again? NO. HUGE NO. RESOUNDING NO. I understand what people are saying when they say their kids are the best thing that ever happened to them, but if I did not have these two specific boys, I would not miss them. If I was single, I may think "gosh I wish I had kids" but I wouldn't know to miss these specific boys. Who are great, don't get me wrong. But I didn't plan to be doing most of the heavy lifting of the parenting while he is the fun dad. I did not plan to have to figure out our futures with so much debt. I did not plan to have to be alone with them when DH moved out for 6 months because we all were "too much for him". I did not plan to listen to the oldest child tell me that I am too hard on Dad, he is trying as hard as he can when I know about the amount of debt he has gotten us into + the three other women in the past two years that he has crossed a line with. I do NOT want oldest son to know that stuff, but it's hard to hear what a good guy Dad is and why am I so hard on him? I did not plan to be this unhappy, discontent, lonely, pick a word, in a marriage for gods sake. I wanted a true life partner and that is just not possible with an ADHD person. They are just not wired that way.
Would I marry the same person again? Not for any amount of money.
I consider my children to
I consider my children to have lost a parent: their father. I consider myself to be a single mom. I am a darn good parent, but I think it's morally wrong for parents to abandon their children. And that's what my husband did. And this is not akin to "abandoning" one's family because one gets hit by a car. My husband chose to not work; he chose to withdraw emotionally; he chose to place his own interests high above those of me and our daughters.
my story
i am currently dating an adhd-er; that has its own problems - that's why i found this blog
i've followed this thread and your comments for a long time, i know every single one of the things you've mentioned, and i suffer from them all the time (some exceptions, like debt, as we don't share accounts and i don't know what he does with his $). we don't have children
i am sorry for all the pain you must have gone through. there's one thing however that i have never considered until recently; i hope it shows that problems in relationships don't come because of adhd only. had you married someone without adhd - would you have been happier? you will never know, but the odds are not so clear
i never knew about adhd until i met my SO; before this and even well into the relationship i was the kind of person who thought that adhd is a "modern and middle class" affliction. i thought it was just pure laziness, a concept that just didn't enter my life - anyway, i grew up in a completely dysfunctional family, but completely free of adhd
my father was everything but adhd - hard working, active, punctual, precise, never cheated on my mother, took us 4 kids to school every day, dressed and groomed and on time. on paper, my parents were the perfect couple - they would totally laugh off the concept of adhd. even today (he's met my SO, no need to talk about adhd with my dad) BUT he was VERY physically and violently abusive all my life... remembering leaves me in tears... to me, only to me and not any other of my three siblings or my mother... he was very verbally abusive to her but never went beyond... that has left me scarred, of course (that, of a man without a trace of adhd, a successful businessman, always money at home, i had no idea what adhd was) well .. that my mum refused to leave him has even deeper scars in my soul... it's the big elephant in the room, nothing has changed, everybody knows in my family and it just istn spoken about this topic
and no, i don't like the adhd-ness in my SO - he knows my story and has always taken time to listen... at least to 60% of what i say, before drifting off ;) ....---- i know it's funny, i might be talking and he stops and says "what are we discussing again?"... yes i roll my eyes at these questions, especially if i'm telling you about my deepest problems, it's so painful to hear this questions - and i hate myself for rolling my eyes. i wish adhd would jsut go away, and so does hr. he says he would sell his soul to get rid of adhd, it is a problem for him at work, at home, and hurts me, whom he loves. he is the kindest person i have ever met, the warmest soul and happiest smile. soo generous, always looking out for others - but yes... not all of these intentions get "done"... that makes him seem selfish, but it's just him tripping with his own undone laces
a marriage is not a mortgage really, it comes without terms and conditions. at the moment, still fighting for my relationship.
hope this sheds some light -jst to say really that the grass isn't always greener on the other side
A few good things have
A few good things have happened because of and only because of my marriage: my daughters. Pretty much everything else is either bad or would have happened whether or not I had been married to my husband. This is not "grass being greener" la-de-da thoughts; this is reality.
i never meant to dismiss your
i never meant to dismiss your feelings and anything that has happened to you
i am saying that non-adhd is not a guarantee of any kind of happiness; and believe me i need to make a big effort to remember this in my own marriage
I agree with you about non
I agree with you about non-ADHD not being a guarantee. I'm sorry about the abuse you and your mother suffered. That must have been horrible and I'm sure it continues to have effects.
thank you, my thoughts are
thank you, my thoughts are also with you and your daughters. i'm glad they have so much of your love, that's beautiful to see (i don't have children).
So sad...
I've read this post from beginning to end today and I cannot thank all of you enough for sharing your stories here. Reading your experiences has been like someone has been eavesdropping on my life for the last 10+ years. It wasn't until just a few weeks ago that I even made the correlation between my boyfriend's behavior and ADD. I always thought that this was something that only affected children and they grew out of it at some point in their lives as this is how it was presented to me. If I only knew then what I know now... He told me early on that he had been diagnosed with ADHD as a child but that the meds they prescribed for him turned him into a zombie and that "he guessed he just grew out of it". In hindsight (why the H. is THAT always 20/20?!?) it's clear that he has not grown out of it. A very dear friend who also has ADD, treating with meds, and extreme relationship issues started pointing out to me that these behaviors of his that have caused me such angst over the years are, in fact, symptoms of his untreated disorder. When I brought this up to him and even emailed him an article with comments from both the ADD and non-ADD partners that were verbatim things we have said to one another his question was "do I have ADD?". I truly wanted to just bang my head against the nearest hard object!
I have already worked through his cocaine addiction with him and, I think, he has finally gotten past it but can never say for sure. Every time I've given him kudos for his perseverance in beating it and tell him how proud I am of him I find out shortly thereafter that he has just been lying to me again and not telling me about the relapse so I hesitate to say that it is truly behind us, but I remain hopeful and positive in regard to that. BTW, that is not an issue that we share; it truly baffles me. I thought that was the most difficult thing we would face together; it wasn't. I also took him back after he was unfaithful several years into our relationship. We had been planning to marry, I had just picked out my ring, we were moving to a new state for his job and planning to start a family together when I found out about the infidelity. I thought that was the most difficult thing we would face together; it wasn't. THAT incident also involved drugs but mostly centered around his profession - he travels for work A LOT. He is currently gone for 3 months Again.
When I met him, I refused to date him due to his chosen profession. I point blank said that that was not the life I wanted to live. He said then that he only planned to do it for 2-3 more years and then he wanted a home and family. Well, we are now on the 4th installment of his 3 year plan with no change in sight but an AWFUL lot of water under the bridge. I'm telling you all of this just to give you a simple picture of some of the issues to date. To discover that a big portion of our day-to-day problems most likely stem from something that we CANNOT make go away, ADD, - ever - is like realizing that I have wasted any and all opportunities to have a real family and a happy marriage all because yet another of HIS issues. I sincerely doubt that at this point in my life I will ever be able to have children, too old at 42. I've never been married as after he cheated and the drugs reared their ugly head yet again, I refused to marry him until he made the changes he said he wanted and went into something that kept him home and away from the temptations of drugs and other women. Until that time I could not legally tie myself to him. So here I am looking into yet another way to help HIM with yet another of HIS issues. When do I get help for me FROM him? When does it become about US and not just him? Does that EVER happen? Are people with ADD in a never ending vicious cycle of neediness? Does it truly NEVER get any better? This is it for as long as I'm with him?
What is SO sad to me is that I love him with all of my heart even if I do question why each and every day. I can see the good points in him: his exuberance for life, his complete joy in truly simple things and our laughter together. We've always managed to laugh at most of life's troubles together but recently I'm losing my sense of humor because it seems that no matter how much we discuss issues in the relationship they just keep repeating. My life has become a very BAD re-make of "Groundhog Day" or "50 First Dates". I've felt/said all along that I was the only one saving for our future dreams together because he is so obsessed with his hobbies and spends every last cent and minute on them. He lies about the smallest things which makes no sense whatsoever. He can't, or won't, remember anything at all! Not even things he's said to me and definitely not promises that he's made. I attend most business, family and social functions alone because he leaves "for work or his hobbies" when he's scheduled to attend and there are some functions I just can't take him to due to the fact that he monopolizes every conversation bringing it back to HIS hobbies in any social setting. Even times when I've been truly sick or just out of surgery, he leaves to attend to his hobbies. I feel like I'm alone in a relationship! He is never MY emotional support no matter if it involves the death of a loved one or something in my career. I've always blamed our issues on 1st his drug issue and 2nd his job - to find out that he has a disorder that will continually cause the SAME issues for the rest of our lives makes me want to just sit down and cry and then walk away and start a new life by myself far, far away. Unfortunately, I own everything so I can't. I'm the only responsible one here. Counseling yielded a result of "plan more dates together". Apparently he wasn't even honest enough with the counselor to bring up the early ADD diagnosis or maybe we would be in a better place. I honestly feel like the last 10 years of my life have been stolen from me at this point. Even my personal friends are all married with children so I don't even have them the way I did when I met him. For the person who asked "Would you do it all over again?", NO. For the person who stated there are no guarantees that life would have been better with a non-ADD partner, bear in mind that approximately 50% of individuals with some sort of substance addiction also suffer from ADD/ADHD and the rate of infidelity is also higher in these individuals, all I can say is at least with a non-ADD partner your odds are better of not dealing with most of what you've read here. THIS is the most difficult thing that we have ever faced together and frankly, I don't think I have it in me. The light at the end of the tunnel is clearly a train...